Verizon FiOS QIP6416 DVR - Master Topic!

[johnqpixel]

Originally Posted by craig_wagner

The FiOS guys just left. Everything is working well except for one thing.

The box is hooked to the TV using HDMI. When I put my Pioneer PDP-6010FD into dot-by-dot mode, I get this 1/4" green bar on the far right side of the screen. If the 6010 is in Full mode the bar isn't present, and if the box is hooked up via component it isn't present.

Anyone else experienced this?

FWIW: http://www.somelifeblog.com/2007/11/...cd-screen.html

[remav]

FiOS list Members,

I'm going to have the ear of high level VZ FiOS staff to address the video studder issue and would like to invite anyone familiar with it to forward their notes/knowledge so that I have the best information available to present. (PM would be OK) For starters they are sending out a "video expert" to my home to do a "complete sweep" of my install. IMHO, they will find no problem with the install so I'll be demonstrating the issue with clips that I have recorded and then will be in contact with some executive types.

Here is a list of my experience on the issue and why I believe it is solely a Motorola STB issue. (...and any information you can offer to poke any holes in my theory would be very helpful and welcome!)

Symptoms:
You're flipping through channels and most of them are in great FiOS form; beautiful, nearly flawless; in other words, everything you'd expect.

BUT...

For some reason on some occasions you notice what appear to be missing frames, Jittery, Juddery, Jerky, Strobing effects. (audio is not affected) Flipping back to other channels you notice that they are not affected, so you may conclude that this is a feed issue and not associate it as an STB problem, but it is, and here's why:

Even though you can record the clip and it will still play back with the judders, if you keep it on your VDR for a long time it will eventually play back the entire clip correctly with no judders. This proves that the video stream makes it intact to the STB.

Also, Others have made note in this thread that they are sometimes able temporarily correct this issue by entering the STB setup menu, changing the resolution settings and then changing them back to 1080i. Although this never seemed to work for me in the past, a couple of nights ago I tried going in to both internal menus and clicking on the default settings option, then resetting my 4:3 override back to 480p & exiting, which did seem to work. (At least it brought the problem down on the current clip I was playing with from an "8" to a "1" on my non-scientific judder scale) I need to do more playing with this method to determine exactly which action has what result.

Other suggested that this is a problem only in NJ. I can't fathom why this would be true, so if any of you can help dispel this (or help confirm) that would be helpful.

Other facts:
1) Happens on HD and SD.
2) Tends to occur during high bit-rate scenes. For example, a person walking across a fixed background will be smooth, but a camera attempting to pan will trigger the judders.
3)Happens on HDMI, Component, and even S-Video
4)I've tested 4 TVs - 1 Philips 34" tube, 2 Sharp LCDs & my current XBR4 LCD. All have the same results.
5) Happens with both regular HD STB and DVR STB. I have had 4 total, 3 DVRs and 1 non-DVR STB. I have no experience with non-HD boxes.

Unknowns that I love to get more information on:
1) It was suggested by someone here that this is a memory timing issue. Any further information in that regard?
2) Suggestions on what is different or unique about the channels that do show the problem. Discovery HD, Universal HD, and HD NET seem to me to be more prone to this as does Spike & TNT. I don't believe I've seen the issue on an NFL game, but YES has had it.
3) Any Questions that I'm not asking that I should be?

Thanks Everyone,
I don't want to get off topic when I get my chance with the FiOS execs, but should any of you feel there is a burning issue that I would be able to 1) actually demonstrate & ask to be addressed I'll certainly entertain bringing it up while I have the opportunity. (don't even think about asking me to bring up any pricing or bundle type or minor IMG issues... technical PQ issues only please. thank you.)

Remav

[jgNJ]

Originally Posted by tojohnso

I wonder if you don't have another issue. I've had this version since installation and it's been very stable.

It got worse. After talking to VZ on the phone they had me download the software again by holding the power and select buttons down on the box and then pulling the power cord. I then re-inserted the cord while continuing to hold down the the buttons. After about 10 minutes of the box showing different codes on the display it stopped. Nothing on the display. I waited one hour and the pressed the power button. The display then showed a 0. No output from the box. I called VZ back and they hit the box which did cause it to work but every recording had two entries for it and every series was shown 5 times on the series manager. Each future recording was displayed 5 times without displaying a conflict. The frist program it recorded, it used 2 tuners to record it twice.

This morning I called again. They suggested that I dump all my series recordings and start over. I suggested they format my hard drive. The CSR could not figure out how to do that.

This box was installed in July and had no problems with the old guide.

[kheflw]

Remav, I posted many times over a year ago with stutter problems. Had about 5 different FIOS guys check signal strength and whatever, replaced the DVR, nothing helped.

Then I had another FIOS guy come over, I think he had some different equipment to measure the signal strength. He replaced the main feed from the ONT to the splitter in my house.
My problems were fixed. I know it sounds too simple, but I was really picky about this stuff. Certain Football games were stuttering and freezing like crazy. It all stopped.

I am in NJ, cant comment on the NJ aspect of it.

Good Luck

[hadrion]

Clearly, there are issues with these Motorola boxes.

We're all not getting the same issue, but there is something wrong with some of them that wasn't wrong with my Sci Atl cablevision HD DVR that I had zero problems with.

The pink tinted screen from improper HDMI handshaking persists with me after changing boxes.

The first box they gave me had intermittent white flashes on screen, audio dropouts and popping/cracking sounds.

The second box thankfully, does not do the white flashes and audio issues, but I'm still having to deal with the pink screen on my 2nd box.

I called them and they offered to bring out a 3rd box and try again which I will do.

Their customer service is good. I have no complaints with Fios and their sincere attempts to fix this issue.

Their Motorola hardware however, leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion.

[GeekGirl]

Originally Posted by wittangamo

The 1080i output is controlled in Settings, Video Format. In the service menu, 16x9 with 4:3 override to 480i is what you want. (OFF means 4:3 will be scaled to 1080i.)

Thank you! Had same problem when I reset the output resolution. IMG upgraded yesterday in Philly.

I think my STB is having the same stuttering issues as previous posts. HD hockey (Flyers - Comcast Sportsnet HD) looked really soft and I noticed some jerkiness to the picture. Also, the sound is out of sync.

Looking at tonight's hockey on HDNet, it still looks soft compared to what I normally sound. Sound's still a bit out of sync.

[CeeZeeCZ]

Originally Posted by jgNJ

After about 10 minutes of the box showing different codes on the display it stopped. Nothing on the display. I waited one hour and the pressed the power button. The display then showed a 0. No output from the box. I called VZ back and they hit the box which did cause it to work but every recording had two entries for it and every series was shown 5 times on the series manager. Each future recording was displayed 5 times without displaying a conflict. The frist program it recorded, it used 2 tuners to record it twice.

This morning I called again. They suggested that I dump all my series recordings and start over. I suggested they format my hard drive. The CSR could not figure out how to do that.

Did you ever get this straightened out? Have you tried to power-cycle the box to see if the duplicates reoccur after you've cleared them out?

[siersema]

Originally Posted by toramo

Yes! I noticed that too. Glad someone else is seeing this. There are other various bugs in the ff, pause, play features of the multi-room DVR but this is definitely something new in 1.04. It does not occur when watching directly from the DVR but the skip feature is pretty useless from the remote STB's. I suppose I'll call verizon to report this.

I noticed this also but found out that the skip and back can be adjusted in settings under DVR. Did you try the settings?

[GeekGirl]

I just spent about an hour and a half today on the phone with Verizon tech support to try getting a replacement for my STB, which was stuttering / jerky picture and having really bad audio sync problems. Not a problem, since I was in the mood to deal with it and had some time to kill.

- I reset the STB twice via internet. You can do that if you login to your Verizon account. No improvement.
- Tried to submit a problem report online. After choosing "snowy picture" as the closest description to the problem ("STB" is not a choice), the online form then said "call tech support".
- A long story about how I got put on hold, another agent somehow picked up the line and I got asked the same questions again. Don't ask. My only request was to send a replacement STB.
- Customer agent #2, after 45 minutes of questions- Before I get final authorization to replace the STB, let's try one more thing. Hold Power + Select, disconnect power, reconnect power. When the display says "EF", wait 20 minutes and all should be OK. Agent said that he had noted all the info, please call back and the next agent can help you if there is a problem. This is the dreaded brain-wipe (restart from bootloader). Did that OK, the front panel said "DL" for a while, then went totally blank. Nada.
- After 20 minutes, powered up the STB. It said "0". That's about it.
- Customer agent #3 - No problem, all it needs is to be de-authenticated and re-authenticated. STB got reset and came up. Didn't respond to remote or front-panel menu, but a 2nd power-up fixed that (just like Microsoft Windows ).

I think that this "fresh" download might have done the trick. The HD looks fine and the sound appears to be in sync. I might see a glitch or 2 every half hour, but it might be too soon to tell based on the source material. Will have to wait until my "reference" HD hockey happens.

I know it's a true update because all of my DVR settings were double. The other resets didn't affect the DVR side. Caution: Erasing one entry deletes the stored program. I needed to re-enter my scheduled recordings.

My thinking after all this is that it might really be a complicated software problem. The IMG has had several upgrade patches (version 1.x) since I've had it. Then, a major upgrade while trying to preserve the customer's settings. Not easy.

Of course, if the problem appears again, I'm getting a replacement STB. I've now got it on record that I went through every possible troubleshooting path and the only thing left is to replace the box.

Helpful tip: Do NOT do the dump firmware / reload (Power + Select while disconnecting / reconnecting power) without being told to do so by Verizon. Your box will be displaying a "0" until you call them to re-authenticate it. Same as what happened to jgNJ. Verizon has it on record, so they know what they did. If you do it yourself, you will have some explaining to do.

Update: The "EF" on the front panel display means "Erasing Flash"

[remav]

A pair of FiOS "Video Specialists" visited yesterday. As I suspected, no problems were found in my install. The most interesting point to note: I had to "teach" them to be able to see the problem. In other words, the studdering video that I describe as "barely watchable" was in their opinion not bad enough for them to even have noticed any problem without me pointing it out. Weird indeed. So, I tried the same thing with one of my friends & he said that he never really noticed until I pointed it out. We recorded good examples of the clips. I'll be watching them over the next month to see if they eventually play correctly as has been my experience in the past. Then? Well, I'm not sure where or how to proceed.

I know I've read where some people are simply more susceptible to this. I never would have dreamed that anyone would watch what I was watching & just kind of shrug their shoulders. To me it is "barely watchable". Is anybody familiar with this?

[GeekGirl]

Something to watch out for: If you see stuttering problems on OTA (Over The Air) broadcast channels, try to verify against the actual broadcast channel. OTW: Compare it against your antenna (if you can).

I was ready to call Verizon again to replace the STB after watching my local NBC (10-1) Nightly network news. Audio was way out of sync. Decided to go OTA. Believe it or not, it was being broadcast like that! Numerous comments on the local Philly OTA thread about NBC.

The local broadcast of the Flyers game happened to be on Philly local 57-1 (CW). Widescreen format, so the PQ wasn't all that great. I did see some stuttering OTA. However, it was worse on Verizon.

The AFC championship on CBS has a bit of stuttering on FiOS. Rare on OTA, but I can catch it once in a while.

I'll hold from asking for a replacement STB unless things get worse.

[bfdtv]

Originally Posted by GeekGirl

Something to watch out for: If you see stuttering problems on OTA (Over The Air) broadcast channels, try to verify against the actual broadcast channel. OTW: C

Right.

On this forum, have complained about stutter on at least two channels where the source feed was the problem, with the same behavior seen on Verizon, Comcast, OTA, etc.

That said, stuttering on the Motorola box can also be caused by a signal issue.

[jgNJ]

Originally Posted by CeeZeeCZ

Did you ever get this straightened out? Have you tried to power-cycle the box to see if the duplicates reoccur after you've cleared them out?

Yes, once I deleted all the series (or season passes as the TIVO people call it) and re-established them, the DVR has been working fine.

[GeekGirl]

Originally Posted by bfdtv

That said, stuttering on the Motorola box can also be caused by a signal issue.

Signal levels: The required signal-to-noise ratio for a 256 QAM signal (HD) is more than a 64-QAM signal (SD). SNR is more noticed as pixelation. Maybe stuttering appears before the signal level drops more, but with the high signal levels at the ONT output (10 dB more than cable), I'd doubt that's the problem. Especially since the install verifies that signal levels meet spec at the TV.

If you're talking about sync issues, I can believe that. The STB has to be fast enough to process real-time. Lack of memory or CPU cycles will cause it to drop frames or lose audio. This assumes that the broadcaster's signal is perfect (needs work...).

One interesting thing to try: Use the "live pause" to see if the stuttering changes. IOW, Pause for a few seconds, then hit Play. It's still there, but the playback is much easier on the eyes. Playback from memory still has the problem, but it looks like there's a bit of filtering (averaging) to smooth things out.

Playback from memory is done using the STB's internal timing. IOW, it will display the field / frame when it's darn well ready. Live feeds force it to keep up and drop frames. Of course, if there is a problem recording it in the first place, it will just make it worse.

Worst performance so far is with the higher bit rate feeds, e.g. Comcast Sportsnet HD. Discovery HD seems fine (lower bit rage). IMHO, that points to the STB.

[remav]

Well, I had 3 more techs here tonight. New OTN (ONT?) & Router. I Still have Stuttering Video. This time at least they all agreed that I had a serious issue so Horrible Stuttering video wins 5-3 between techs & friends & me. (and apparently my friends are split 1-1). Still, nobody ever believes that the recorded video clips eventually "repair" themselves if left alone on the DVR for a month or so. (except my friends who have witnessed it with me.)

I'm just going to keep recording clips until I can show the techs in a month or so that they are "healed". Along these lines they did offer a great test that I'm going to try. They suggested that I split the signal & run one coax into my media center PC & one to the STB. A - B test to see if I see the studdering out of both or just the STB.

They also said that the tuner in the MC should be able to pick up more channels than the STB does. (who knew?) Everything else they offer always is an attempt to get the signal to the STB, but if my scenario is correct, this will do nothing to help.

I guess there's nothing that can be done if the Motorola box is to blame, but you know about the first step being admitting you have a problem, right? (I don't know what the contract with Motorola is like but it would seem to me like their boxes would be required to meet certain standards... no?)

[substance12]

I've set my moto dvr to record Torchwood on any channel first run only... except that when I look at upcoming recordings... it's recording all runs on BBCA and for some reason every episode is considered new on HDnet. what's up with this?

[sguod]

Don't know if this is the right thread to post this question but.....

Does Verizon now offer a FiOS cable card that I can plug into my computer in place of the TV tuner that's there now?

I rarely used the TV in my den and it was taking up space, so when I recently upgraded to a Dell XPS 210, I got it with a TV tuner and a large monitor. I eliminated the TV set and now run the output of the Verizon STB (SD) into the computer's TV tuner and use Vista Media Center to display video on the monitor. I also get the benefit of VMC's DVR capability. But now I have heard that Verizon may be offering a cable card which could replace the tuner in the computer and eliminate the need for the external STB.

Is this true and does anyone have any knowledge and experience with this? There is a Vista Cable Card thread here with many posts which seems to indicate lots of problems attempting to use these cards but I don't know how much of that would apply to a Verizon FiOS card.

[tojohnso]

Originally Posted by jgNJ

It got worse. After talking to VZ on the phone they had me download the software again by holding the power and select buttons down on the box and then pulling the power cord. I then re-inserted the cord while continuing to hold down the the buttons. After about 10 minutes of the box showing different codes on the display it stopped. Nothing on the display. I waited one hour and the pressed the power button. The display then showed a 0. No output from the box. I called VZ back and they hit the box which did cause it to work but every recording had two entries for it and every series was shown 5 times on the series manager. Each future recording was displayed 5 times without displaying a conflict. The frist program it recorded, it used 2 tuners to record it twice.

This morning I called again. They suggested that I dump all my series recordings and start over. I suggested they format my hard drive. The CSR could not figure out how to do that.

This box was installed in July and had no problems with the old guide.

I wonder if there aren't a couple of things going on with your issue and those that others have explained here. In your case, it sounds to me like the box either isn't accepting 100% of the code or the signal you are getting is dropping some of it. This can be caused by loose or "bad" connectors. And it can be a problem if the coax installed in your house isn't RG6 (used by satellite companies for years but new to digital cable).

The other issue noted about the stuttering that finally subsides after about a month or so sounds like a HD fragmentation issue. It could be that recordings, or parts of recordings, are saved on separate parts of the disk that cause the stuttering noticed as caused by the actuator arms having to move a greater distance. If the system is set up to move recordings around the drive to make space for new recordings, it could be self healing the issue. In the desktop / server computer world, defragmenting the drive would solve the issue. Obviously, we don't have the means to do that with these boxes. But if your provider can send a command to defragment or re-format the drive, that could fix the issue, if not temporarily. If it does fix the issue, keep track of what you record and how you record (one or two programs at a time while watching one live). The time to failure may help them troubleshoot.

[jwardell]

Yay, Verizon now offers self-installation!

In preparation for a second HDTV, I wanted to replace my SD fios box with an HD box, and called them up last week. Last time I wanted to get a new box (to get my first malfunctioning 6416 replaced), it took four appointments (Note, 3 were skipped!) for a tech. THANK YOU VERIZON for realizing some of us out there are capable of plugging in a few wires on our own!

The new box simply came in a box via UPS, and paperwork included an activation code. Once hooked up, you log in to the indicated web site and enter the code in. This generated server-side errors twice for me so I instead called the given phone number for the activation line...simply touch tone in the codes and within seconds by box was responding.

SO much nicer than all my previous experiences with fiosTV. It looks like they're finally getting the hang of things.

(also, when I called they mentioned a promo for HBO for $5 a month if you have a DVR, so I jumped on that deal)

[bfdtv]

Originally Posted by sguod

Does Verizon now offer a FiOS cable card that I can plug into my computer in place of the TV tuner that's there now?

A CableCard is not a tuner. It does not replace a tuner. It is essentially a decryption card that plugs into a CableCard tuner.

Verizon FiOS offers CableCards, but you must have a tuner with a CableCard slot to accept it.

Dell sells such a CableCard tuner as an option, but unfortunately it is not compatible with the Dell XPS 210. It is only compatible with the Dell XPS 420. The XPS 210 will never be able to display encrypted digital cable channels from FiOS or any other cable provider. If you just got the XPS 210, you might be able to return it and get the XPS 420.

[jgNJ]

Originally Posted by tojohnso

I wonder if there aren't a couple of things going on with your issue and those that others have explained here. In your case, it sounds to me like the box either isn't accepting 100% of the code or the signal you are getting is dropping some of it. This can be caused by loose or "bad" connectors. And it can be a problem if the coax installed in your house isn't RG6 (used by satellite companies for years but new to digital cable).

The other issue noted about the stuttering that finally subsides after about a month or so sounds like a HD fragmentation issue. It could be that recordings, or parts of recordings, are saved on separate parts of the disk that cause the stuttering noticed as caused by the actuator arms having to move a greater distance. If the system is set up to move recordings around the drive to make space for new recordings, it could be self healing the issue. In the desktop / server computer world, defragmenting the drive would solve the issue. Obviously, we don't have the means to do that with these boxes. But if your provider can send a command to defragment or re-format the drive, that could fix the issue, if not temporarily. If it does fix the issue, keep track of what you record and how you record (one or two programs at a time while watching one live). The time to failure may help them troubleshoot.

Thank you very much for your help. Although I have not experienced the shudder problem, I found your explanation to be very interesting. If your theory is correct, swapping the box or just the HD would solve it.

My box did reboot itself last night after I set up a recording, but thats the first time since last week. If it continues to act strangely I will ask V* for a new box.

[sguod]

Thanx for the info, bfdtv.

I originally picked the XPS 210 for its small footprint which I need due to space constraints. I'll continue with my present setup.

[FIOSINTAMPA]

I think this has been mentioned in this forum before and I apologize if it has. I could not seem to find any reference to it. Apparently with the new IMG that I have (Release 1.0.4, Build number 05.68), I can no longer start watching something while it is still in the process of recording. Maybe this does not have anything to do with the IMG -possibly a download of firmware to the box. This now occurs on both of my DVR's - just all of a sudden.

While recording, it only gives me the option to "Play" and when I select that, it goes right to the live action. I know that in the previous version that I had, I could start watching something while it was still recording from the very start of that show and eventually, if there was enough time left, I would catch up to the live show. This is as it should be.

Not being able to start viewing an event from the beginning while recording it is a pain. Once it is completely recorded and finished, then the DVR works as it should. i.e. you can start from the beginning or you can start at the point that you stopped viewing it after you have viewed some of it.

Tell me that it is not just me and that other people are experiencing this as well. Not that I would wish this on anybody.

[BTDT]

sguod,

You unfortunately have to buy a new PC that includes CableCard support. You cannot add it to an existing PC.

BTW, does anyone know if the "self installation" that Verizon has kicked off includes CableCards? That was one hurdle to that process: the inconvenience and fee for a service call.

[Gerryex]

Originally Posted by FIOSINTAMPA

I think this has been mentioned in this forum before and I apologize if it has. I could not seem to find any reference to it. Apparently with the new IMG that I have (Release 1.0.4, Build number 05.68), I can no longer start watching something while it is still in the process of recording. Maybe this does not have anything to do with the IMG -possibly a download of firmware to the box. This now occurs on both of my DVR's - just all of a sudden.

While recording, it only gives me the option to "Play" and when I select that, it goes right to the live action. I know that in the previous version that I had, I could start watching something while it was still recording from the very start of that show and eventually, if there was enough time left, I would catch up to the live show. This is as it should be.

Not being able to start viewing an event from the beginning while recording it is a pain. Once it is completely recorded and finished, then the DVR works as it should. i.e. you can start from the beginning or you can start at the point that you stopped viewing it after you have viewed some of it.

Tell me that it is not just me and that other people are experiencing this as well. Not that I would wish this on anybody.

Hi FIOSINTAMPA,

I think this is a bug that has not been fixed yet, but there is an easy workaround. The first time you go into a show that has been (or currently is being) recorded the only option is "Play" and it may take you into the middle (or live) portion of the show. Just go back to the "Recorded Programs" menu and select the same show again and this time there will be a "Play from Start" option. Select this and indeed it will start to play from the beginning even if this show is still being recorded. I do this all the time.

I think the bug is that the "Play from Start" should be an option all the time but it only shows up the second time you go to watch a show. If I remember correctly, the original guide software always had the Play from Start option. When the new guide came out I think they screwed it up but at least the work-around seems to be OK.

Gerry

P. S. I live in the Land O Lakes area!

[substance12]

you can also hit info (twice i think) and also play from start. a little quicker than going back into the dvr menu.

[uva25]

Has anyone had issues with their Guide not working after the upgrade. The channels will come in but there is no guide data. Nothing has changed except the software update. Thanks.

[kes601]

Originally Posted by uva25

Has anyone had issues with their Guide not working after the upgrade. The channels will come in but there is no guide data. Nothing has changed except the software update. Thanks.

Do the widgets work? If not, try resetting your router. Sounds like your STB is not getting on your network.

[FIOSINTAMPA]

Originally Posted by Gerryex

Hi FIOSINTAMPA,

I think this is a bug that has not been fixed yet, but there is an easy workaround. The first time you go into a show that has been (or currently is being) recorded the only option is "Play" and it may take you into the middle (or live) portion of the show. Just go back to the "Recorded Programs" menu and select the same show again and this time there will be a "Play from Start" option. Select this and indeed it will start to play from the beginning even if this show is still being recorded. I do this all the time.

I think the bug is that the "Play from Start" should be an option all the time but it only shows up the second time you go to watch a show. If I remember correctly, the original guide software always had the Play from Start option. When the new guide came out I think they screwed it up but at least the work-around seems to be OK.

Gerry

P. S. I live in the Land O Lakes area!

Gerry: Thanks for the information! I will give that a shot. I live in the Wesley Chapel area and not Tampa as my Username would lead you to believe. Thanks again!

[bfdtv]

Originally Posted by uva25

Has anyone had issues with their Guide not working after the upgrade. The channels will come in but there is no guide data. Nothing has changed except the software update. Thanks.

Disconnect and then reconnect the power to the box.