HDMI Not Good for CRT TVs?

TransAmLS1 · 07-23-06, 11:19 AM

I just read a little about upconversion DVD players and that they have no positive effect on CRT TVs like the Sony 34XBR970. In fact, running HDMI from an upconverting DVD player to this TV might actually worsen the quality. I was seriously thinking about the Sony 34XBR970 until I read this. Specifically, they've said the image is "dark" and "better with regular progressive scan player."

I don't want to hassle with calibration or any of that.

Can we have a definitive discussion on HDMI with tube TVs? Why would Sony put an HDMI connection in a TV if it sucked? I suppose to appease customers, but surely there is something I am not getting here. I really don't want to be disappointed after spending this kind of money.

Right now, I have no TV, so I need to get as much information as I can to make a decision pretty soon.

The more I read here, the more I question myself. It's good that I learn these things, but it's disappointing sometimes.

As always, thanks for your input.

jonnyozero3 · 07-23-06, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TransAmLS1

I don't want to hassle with callibration or any of that.

If you're taking the time to this about the issue this much and post about it, you should have the spare energy and time available to do a calibration with Avia or DVE on your display. Personally, I think it's foolish not to calibrate your player to your future display. You'd be wasting money otherwise.

Also - if you have a problem with the HDMI input, just use component then. Supposed problem solved. (I use the word supposed because i've never heard of this problem before, but I'm out of the CRT loop...)

TransAmLS1 · 07-23-06, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyozero3

If you're taking the time to this about the issue this much and post about it, you should have the spare energy and time available to do a calibration with Avia or DVE on your display. Personally, I think it's foolish not to calibrate your player to your future display. You'd be wasting money otherwise.

Also - if you have a problem with the HDMI input, just use component then. Supposed problem solved.

Yeah, but then you're not utilizing upconversion that HDMI offers. You aren't using the HDMI on the TV. I kind of wanted to explore HDMI and experience the supposed benefits of the best connection available. I can do component on any old TV and DVD player.

I understand that you think I should want to spend the time calibrating, but I really don't want to screw anything up. I'm not experienced in calibrating and a lot of people reviewing the Avia say that it's incomprehensible, frustrating, ineffective, etc. I am willing to learn, but the main goal of this post is to get feedback on whether or not people are happy with their HDMI connections to their CRT.

N'Yeti · 07-23-06, 12:05 PM

Actually, I've found that the HDMI connection on my Panasonic CT-34WX15 gives me a very sharp picture (probably because it's a digital connection). As in the "your mileage may vary" type statements, I suggest that you borrow an HDMI capable DVD player (get a Sony DVPNS75H if you must have a Sony for your Sony tv) and try it out. Lots of people find that the 480p or 480i HDMI is a better picture than component 480i or 480p. Quite a few find that 1080i is even better...Some don't.

Calbrating with DVE or AVIA isn't difficult (I use DVE - it's really pretty simple to do the basic calibration - I'm not advocating that you go into your service menu to start doing fine adjustments to your set...just set up your tv for home watching rather than watching on the showroom floor). You should start to see detail that you didn't know was there (besides, your tv will thank you with years more usage).

Why do manufactures make the HDMI connections on the tvs if they suck? Personally, I found that they don't suck; however, if you want a jaded explanation...because that's what people want...Actually, it's because they know that many peripherals will require the HDMI to work...(including their own...got to move those colour tvs). Anything to sell more goods. Most people don't know that there's a difference between the $40 dvd player and the $200 player (or $500 player). Of course, you know that the $150 player is better than some $2000 players...but I digress...

DavidHir · 07-23-06, 12:22 PM

I have a well-calibrated ISF'd Sony 57" CRT RPTV with HDMI. With component and HDMI equally calibrated, they are almost identical. Calibration is the key, yet most people are too lazy to do it properly and make statements such as, "HDMI is dark, HDMI sucks, etc.." I do use HDMI to upscale commerical DVDs. I only do it to avoid seeing scanlines - I admit it offers no other benefit for CRT.

Furthermore, if the studios ever decide to use the ICT flags, viewing HD DVD or Blu-ray via 1080i through HDMI will be your only option as it will be down-rez'd to 540p on component.

cws_kahuna · 07-23-06, 12:31 PM

My old TV was the 34" JVC that had a DVI connection and I felt the connection worked great. Hard to say if it was any better than using component connections though.

HDTVChallenged · 07-23-06, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TransAmLS1

I just read a little about upconversion DVD players and that they have no positive effect on CRT TVs like the Sony 34XBR970. In fact, running HDMI from an upconverting DVD player to this TV might actually worsen the quality. .

Depends on the display, the quality of it's scaler/de-interlacer, and whether or not it can display WS 480p natively. These days many (if not most) CRT displays convert 480p to 540p, and they may or may not do a very good job of that. If they are poor at scaling, an upconverting (to 1080i) DVD player may help.

Still, for my money, I'd take a native WS 480p display over upconversion. Then again, there's only so much dressing up one can do. HD (720p/1080i/1080p) is the future, spending more money to dress up 480i/p seems like a waste to me ... but YMMV.

TransAmLS1 · 07-23-06, 12:47 PM

Thanks for the input guys.

I know it's all about personal tastes, lighting, viewing distance, and other various conditions that make for a picture one likes or dislikes. What I really want is to just preview it in my home without having to lug a 200 pound monster up stairs only to have to pay to have it taken back to the store.

I suppose, I might end up doing this just to see how I like it.

Does calibrating a TV involve going into service mode? I know it can, but does it have to? Basically, I refuse to go in the service mode for fear I void warranty, screw it up, or do irreversible damage.

If I can calibrate without the service mode, I might consider it if I'm not happy with the display.

soldonandy · 07-23-06, 02:13 PM

The benefits of HDMI are far from a slam dunk and very display dependent. Whenever you ask for an opinion you get a mixed bag of answers which to me is the tell tale sign. Despite the fact that HDMI may not be better than component or an upgrade depending on the particular display, it is still sold to the public as a universal benefit. HDMI was established to protect copyright interests and also enabled manufacturers to breathe no life into DVD player sales, the strategy worked because so many people went nuts buying "upscaling" DVD players and are claiming benefits just like some claim benefits manufacturers would be selling themself short by not including HDMI to partner with their DVD players, regardless whether it is the best way to connect a DVD player to the display.

n3vino · 07-23-06, 02:50 PM

I have a crt Sony kp51ws500 with DVI. I just got the Sony 75H upconverting player and I'm very happy with it.

My set's native formats are 480I, 480P, and 1080I. 720P will downconvert to 480P. That's why it's imprtant that my set has a 1080I HD signal going in.

My cable box feeds a 1080I HD signal to my set. By the same token, my Sony DVP-NS75H DVD player feeds a 1080I signal to my set via HDMI/DVI too. I like it much better than 480P over component. Like I said, my set's HD native format is 1080I. But with the 75H, you have the option of displaying 480P over component or 1080I over HDMI.

However,the DVI input was much brighter than 480P/1080I over component. I had to calibrate using AVIA and bring contrast and brightness way down. With AVIA, you do not have to go into the service mode to calibrate. You can adjust Hue, contrast and brightness via user controls using AVIA. Calibrating color with AVIA did not work for me. It was to high.

PooperScooper · 07-23-06, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Does calibrating a TV involve going into service mode? I know it can, but does it have to? Basically, I refuse to go in the service mode for fear I void warranty, screw it up, or do irreversible damage.

To get a complete calibration to a known "color tempature", typically D65 because film is mastered to this standard, you do need to go into the service mode. However, this is usually done by trained people (ISF technichians and such) and does not harm your TV. However, basic caliration of black level (brightness), white level (contrast), sharpness and a couple other things on CRTs is mandatory if you want to even come close to seeing what is really on a DVD. If the DVD player outputs "black", you have to make sure the TV reponds by displaying "black" when the DVD player outputs it. Same goes for "white" and everything else in between. The DVDs mentioned above have test patterns and instructions how to do this. Even doing the basic calibrations require some understanding what you are doing and why. If you pay attention to the discs and do some reading it's not very difficult. Also, there's a whole forum here dedicated to calibration.

larry

samham · 07-23-06, 10:51 PM

I have a Hitachi 51S715 (RPTV). It looked great on component, fed by my DirecTV 10-250 HD Tivo and my Pioneer 531 DVD. I decided to try the HDMI feed from the Tivo and felt that the pic was definitely better. It's only my perception, not scientific measurement. A bit later, I got a Sony 995V upconverting DVD and tried that on both component and HDMI, and again felt that the HDMI was better.

My Tv had been calibrated on component, and I have not yet re-calibrated on HDMI. It's hard to imagine that it could get any better.

BTW, the biggest improvement with the HDMI came when I was watching digital transmissions of SD signals. They weren't up to HD standards, but were a lot better than with component input.

eapleitez · 07-24-06, 12:04 AM

I'm using the Momitsu v880 on my Zenith crt HD monitor and it blows away my other panny dvd player. I'm upscaling to 1080i over component.

karmick · 02-12-07, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n3vino

I have a crt Sony kp51ws500 with DVI. I just got the Sony 75H upconverting player and I'm very happy with it.

My set's native formats are 480I, 480P, and 1080I. 720P will downconvert to 480P. That's why it's imprtant that my set has a 1080I HD signal going in.

My cable box feeds a 1080I HD signal to my set. By the same token, my Sony DVP-NS75H DVD player feeds a 1080I signal to my set via HDMI/DVI too. I like it much better than 480P over component. Like I said, my set's HD native format is 1080I. But with the 75H, you have the option of displaying 480P over component or 1080I over HDMI.

However,the DVI input was much brighter than 480P/1080I over component. I had to calibrate using AVIA and bring contrast and brightness way down. With AVIA, you do not have to go into the service mode to calibrate. You can adjust Hue, contrast and brightness via user controls using AVIA. Calibrating color with AVIA did not work for me. It was to high.

HI There!

Hope you're still online with this forum.

I too have had a Kp51ws500 since 2003 and I just got an upconvrtng sony dvp 70h -but am thikning of going ahead and gettgin an oppo soon anyway.

My quesiton to you is about how to best set up the player. I got it a month before (early January 07) actually having the time and energy to initially set it up and at first the results were absolutely stunning. I,m amazed at how this set gets dumped on sometimes.

The problem is that since the initial setup and viewing, it doesn't seem to perofrm like it first did. The standout aspect at first was that the 10801 image over HDMI had this startup white filmy quality to it that you then had to very finally adjust using both the player and the TVs image adjustments. Resluting image had my mouth on the floor wathcing Superman Returns, probably one of the worst quality SD_DVD's I've ever seen. Through the player it was stunning! Virtually no aritfacts.

But at this point I'm tired, haivng also acquitred other A/V for my bedroom and spent more time dealign with all of it than I thought I would have to. I'm in a wheelchair so all this is incredibly fatiguing for me.

So basically, how did you set up your Player and TV? What settings do you have it at? And what would be your best advice to me as I go down the road of maximizing my use of this new setup?

ANy help will be much appreciated.

Many thanks for your original post. Thought I was the only dinosaur around with this set...;-)

Karmick

07-23-06, 11:19 AM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
TransAmLS1 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 291	HDMI Not Good for CRT TVs? I just read a little about upconversion DVD players and that they have no positive effect on CRT TVs like the Sony 34XBR970. In fact, running HDMI from an upconverting DVD player to this TV might actually worsen the quality. I was seriously thinking about the Sony 34XBR970 until I read this. Specifically, they've said the image is "dark" and "better with regular progressive scan player." I don't want to hassle with calibration or any of that. Can we have a definitive discussion on HDMI with tube TVs? Why would Sony put an HDMI connection in a TV if it sucked? I suppose to appease customers, but surely there is something I am not getting here. I really don't want to be disappointed after spending this kind of money. Right now, I have no TV, so I need to get as much information as I can to make a decision pretty soon. The more I read here, the more I question myself. It's good that I learn these things, but it's disappointing sometimes. As always, thanks for your input. Last edited by TransAmLS1; 07-23-06 at 11:39 AM..

07-23-06, 12:05 PM	#4 \| Link
N'Yeti Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 224	Actually, I've found that the HDMI connection on my Panasonic CT-34WX15 gives me a very sharp picture (probably because it's a digital connection). As in the "your mileage may vary" type statements, I suggest that you borrow an HDMI capable DVD player (get a Sony DVPNS75H if you must have a Sony for your Sony tv) and try it out. Lots of people find that the 480p or 480i HDMI is a better picture than component 480i or 480p. Quite a few find that 1080i is even better...Some don't. Calbrating with DVE or AVIA isn't difficult (I use DVE - it's really pretty simple to do the basic calibration - I'm not advocating that you go into your service menu to start doing fine adjustments to your set...just set up your tv for home watching rather than watching on the showroom floor). You should start to see detail that you didn't know was there (besides, your tv will thank you with years more usage). Why do manufactures make the HDMI connections on the tvs if they suck? Personally, I found that they don't suck; however, if you want a jaded explanation...because that's what people want...Actually, it's because they know that many peripherals will require the HDMI to work...(including their own...got to move those colour tvs). Anything to sell more goods. Most people don't know that there's a difference between the $40 dvd player and the $200 player (or $500 player). Of course, you know that the $150 player is better than some $2000 players...but I digress... Last edited by N'Yeti; 07-23-06 at 12:25 PM.. Reason: Calibration

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DavidHir AVS Special Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,132	I have a well-calibrated ISF'd Sony 57" CRT RPTV with HDMI. With component and HDMI equally calibrated, they are almost identical. Calibration is the key, yet most people are too lazy to do it properly and make statements such as, "HDMI is dark, HDMI sucks, etc.." I do use HDMI to upscale commerical DVDs. I only do it to avoid seeing scanlines - I admit it offers no other benefit for CRT. Furthermore, if the studios ever decide to use the ICT flags, viewing HD DVD or Blu-ray via 1080i through HDMI will be your only option as it will be down-rez'd to 540p on component. Last edited by DavidHir; 07-23-06 at 12:30 PM..

07-23-06, 12:31 PM	#6 \| Link
cws_kahuna AvWakeBoardR Join Date: May 2006 Location: Canyon Lake, CA Posts: 454	My old TV was the 34" JVC that had a DVI connection and I felt the connection worked great. Hard to say if it was any better than using component connections though. __________________ Thanks Richard High Definition Enthusiast HD DVD + Blu-Ray + DirecTV HD

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n3vino Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 47	I have a crt Sony kp51ws500 with DVI. I just got the Sony 75H upconverting player and I'm very happy with it. My set's native formats are 480I, 480P, and 1080I. 720P will downconvert to 480P. That's why it's imprtant that my set has a 1080I HD signal going in. My cable box feeds a 1080I HD signal to my set. By the same token, my Sony DVP-NS75H DVD player feeds a 1080I signal to my set via HDMI/DVI too. I like it much better than 480P over component. Like I said, my set's HD native format is 1080I. But with the 75H, you have the option of displaying 480P over component or 1080I over HDMI. However,the DVI input was much brighter than 480P/1080I over component. I had to calibrate using AVIA and bring contrast and brightness way down. With AVIA, you do not have to go into the service mode to calibrate. You can adjust Hue, contrast and brightness via user controls using AVIA. Calibrating color with AVIA did not work for me. It was to high.

07-23-06, 12:47 PM	#8 \| Link
TransAmLS1 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 291	Thanks for the input guys. I know it's all about personal tastes, lighting, viewing distance, and other various conditions that make for a picture one likes or dislikes. What I really want is to just preview it in my home without having to lug a 200 pound monster up stairs only to have to pay to have it taken back to the store. I suppose, I might end up doing this just to see how I like it. Does calibrating a TV involve going into service mode? I know it can, but does it have to? Basically, I refuse to go in the service mode for fear I void warranty, screw it up, or do irreversible damage. If I can calibrate without the service mode, I might consider it if I'm not happy with the display.

07-23-06, 02:13 PM	#9 \| Link
soldonandy AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,033	The benefits of HDMI are far from a slam dunk and very display dependent. Whenever you ask for an opinion you get a mixed bag of answers which to me is the tell tale sign. Despite the fact that HDMI may not be better than component or an upgrade depending on the particular display, it is still sold to the public as a universal benefit. HDMI was established to protect copyright interests and also enabled manufacturers to breathe no life into DVD player sales, the strategy worked because so many people went nuts buying "upscaling" DVD players and are claiming benefits just like some claim benefits manufacturers would be selling themself short by not including HDMI to partner with their DVD players, regardless whether it is the best way to connect a DVD player to the display.

07-23-06, 10:51 PM	#12 \| Link
samham Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: DC Metro Posts: 32	I have a Hitachi 51S715 (RPTV). It looked great on component, fed by my DirecTV 10-250 HD Tivo and my Pioneer 531 DVD. I decided to try the HDMI feed from the Tivo and felt that the pic was definitely better. It's only my perception, not scientific measurement. A bit later, I got a Sony 995V upconverting DVD and tried that on both component and HDMI, and again felt that the HDMI was better. My Tv had been calibrated on component, and I have not yet re-calibrated on HDMI. It's hard to imagine that it could get any better. BTW, the biggest improvement with the HDMI came when I was watching digital transmissions of SD signals. They weren't up to HD standards, but were a lot better than with component input.

07-24-06, 12:04 AM	#13 \| Link
eapleitez AVS Special Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,373	I'm using the Momitsu v880 on my Zenith crt HD monitor and it blows away my other panny dvd player. I'm upscaling to 1080i over component.