Official Sony 40",46" XBR2, XBR3 - Owner's Thread

[andrewjnyc]

Apparently the 360 update will be going live at 2am Redmond time, 5am for those of us on the East Coast. I usually sleep late, but I have to get up at 6am tomorrow for a doctor's appointment at 7. I'm hoping I can update my 360 and test 1080p on my XBR2 before leaving the house. With luck, I may even have the time to post the results...

[cjmac97]

Isoforger, I had posted this in the other XBR2 thread...

I know they're in somewhat different cost brackets, but I own both the Sony XBR2 and the Pioneer Pro-FHD1. I'm not going to tell you how to determine for yourself if the price difference is material, but in terms of image quality, there's no real comparison. The Pro-FHD1 is far, far superior. There is a depth and smoothness to the image that's better than any other non-front projection image I've seen. The blacks are better, the color is better and the uniformity is better. All the detail that an HD-DVD can supply shows up on screen, but it doesn't have that digitized look, instead it's smooth and beautiful. To see what I mean, take the Apollo 13 HD-DVD to your local dealer and play chapter 4, the lauch sequence...absolutely the best video presentation I've seen. That being said, I deliberatly made sure that there were no windows behind my seating position with the FHD1, because reflections on plasmas drive me mad. The reason I got the XBR2 for my bedroom is that I can't avoid such reflections. and LCD's reflect far less light. Truth is, I've never seen an LCD come close to the quality of the Pioneer or Fujitsu plasmas. I'm not sold on the Panasonics, though for the money, they provide a lot of bang for the buck. Don't get me wrong, the XBR2 is far better than my XBR1 LCD (except for HDCP issues), with significantly less (almost zero) motion blur and I do not have any of the backlight bleed that so many seem to have. However, in my opinion, it's just not up to the level of the Pro-FHD1 (or the Fujitsus, of which my Dad has 2) and I don't think any LCD currently is. In addition, I find SD equally acceptable or equally crappy (signal dependent) on both, though I don't need to worry about stretching SD on the LCD, which I like.

[visual insanity]

This whole thing about backlight bleeding is disturbing enough but what really bugs me is that I don't remember people talking this much about it for the XBR1 unless I just have bad memory.

[desertdude]

Originally Posted by Isoforger

Looking at the 46" or new 52" XBR2 Sony LCD or the Pioneer 50" or 60" plasma. ....... I'm interested in "why" you made the decsision you did.


Thanks for your help and comments.

plasma-not so good in bright rooms(reflections) and burn in potential (I hate watching stretched SD just to avoid black bars

SD is sometime great (USA) and sometimes mediocre. Record some on you DVD recorder at home and bring in your DVD to the show room.

[TheCHAMPisHere]

Originally Posted by Isoforger

I'm about ready to take the plunge. Looking at the 46" or new 52" XBR2 Sony LCD or the Pioneer 50" or 60" plasma. I'm guessing some of you guys were also looking at a plasma before you bought your Sony's ....... I'm interested in "why" you made the decsision you did.

Also, I've yet to see the Sony LCD's with anything but ideal inputs in the stores. How do these LCD's look with standard SD input... know they are fantastic with HD 1080p inputs.

Thanks for your help and comments.

I am about to make the plunge as well for an XBR2 46 inch. I just bought a brand new Samsung 42 inch plasma two months ago and love it, BUT the Image retention kills me and Madden 07 has burned in the EA logo in my corner. Watching ESPN for a couple hours leaves their logo visible in white screen for a couple hrs. Madden on the other permanently burned in their EA logo in the bottom left hand corner after an hour of play. I followed all the break in rules to a tee! Am on about 500 + hours and still can't play Video Games on my 360 because of the bad image retention and burn in issues with it. I am a heavy gamer so LCD is the only way for me.

I am a bit concerned about the blurring issues as I will be 8-9 ft away when playing games like Madden, GOW, COD3, R6 Vegas, etc. Hopefully it isn't a big issue.

[andrewjnyc]

I just had the time to quickly start poking around with the 360 dashboard update, and I'm sorry to report that 1080p is broken on the XBR2 via both component and VGA. When I select 1080p in VGA, I get a windowboxed picture with tons of info cut off on both sides and a warning from the TV saying "Invalid Signal--Check Your PC Output". Over component, when I select 1080p I get a screen full of static for 10 seconds before the console reverts to 1080i.

Feh. Since the XBR2 is one of the most high-profile, wildely available 1080p displays on the market, you'd think MS' engineers would find a way to get the two to work together, but noooooo...

[Lumpydog]

Originally Posted by slapshot1848

as for settings for the 360, I am using the settings that cnet provided when using component. Currently, however, I am using the official microsoft vga cord with the video setting...yes I know this eliminates some if not all of the cnet settings, but I played around with the settings from the vga cord until I got something that I felt was comparable to the cnet settings. The vga cord seems much sharper, and with the 1080p upgrade tomorrow, it will be even better!

Can you provide a link to the CNET settings - can't seem to find them on there site.

Thanks,

Lumpy

[luna5]

Originally Posted by Lumpydog

Can you provide a link to the CNET settings - can't seem to find them on there site.

Thanks,

Lumpy

Hopefully this link will take you there:
http://help.cnet.com/9602-12576_39-0...2506754-search

Bob

[isucamper]

Originally Posted by andrewjnyc

I just had the time to quickly start poking around with the 360 dashboard update, and I'm sorry to report that 1080p is broken on the XBR2 via both component and VGA. When I select 1080p in VGA, I get a windowboxed picture with tons of info cut off on both sides and a warning from the TV saying "Invalid Signal--Check Your PC Output". Over component, when I select 1080p I get a screen full of static for 10 seconds before the console reverts to 1080i.

Feh. Since the XBR2 is one of the most high-profile, wildely available 1080p displays on the market, you'd think MS' engineers would find a way to get the two to work together, but noooooo...

You have to be kidding me!

[phantomhitman]

Originally Posted by andrewjnyc

I just had the time to quickly start poking around with the 360 dashboard update, and I'm sorry to report that 1080p is broken on the XBR2 via both component and VGA. When I select 1080p in VGA, I get a windowboxed picture with tons of info cut off on both sides and a warning from the TV saying "Invalid Signal--Check Your PC Output". Over component, when I select 1080p I get a screen full of static for 10 seconds before the console reverts to 1080i.

Feh. Since the XBR2 is one of the most high-profile, wildely available 1080p displays on the market, you'd think MS' engineers would find a way to get the two to work together, but noooooo...

You know what, if this is true, and this tv cannot display 1080p through vga I will return it this week and get my money back. This will kill it all for me, I bought this tv specifically for for my 360 and ps3.

[Latin-Man]

Originally Posted by andrewjnyc

I just had the time to quickly start poking around with the 360 dashboard update, and I'm sorry to report that 1080p is broken on the XBR2 via both component and VGA. When I select 1080p in VGA, I get a windowboxed picture with tons of info cut off on both sides and a warning from the TV saying "Invalid Signal--Check Your PC Output". Over component, when I select 1080p I get a screen full of static for 10 seconds before the console reverts to 1080i.

Feh. Since the XBR2 is one of the most high-profile, wildely available 1080p displays on the market, you'd think MS' engineers would find a way to get the two to work together, but noooooo...

thats interesting to hear. im sure they will work out some updates. besides, they got what, about 2 months to get it worked out before their HD-DVD player rolls out.

quick question though. when you lost the signal through VGA, did you have to switch back to component to reset the display settings back to 720p, or whatever resoulution you were running before. and then, ofcourse, switch back to VGA cuz you had an incompatible signal.

[TV Casualty]

Originally Posted by andrewjnyc

I just had the time to quickly start poking around with the 360 dashboard update, and I'm sorry to report that 1080p is broken on the XBR2 via both component and VGA. When I select 1080p in VGA, I get a windowboxed picture with tons of info cut off on both sides and a warning from the TV saying "Invalid Signal--Check Your PC Output". Over component, when I select 1080p I get a screen full of static for 10 seconds before the console reverts to 1080i.

Feh. Since the XBR2 is one of the most high-profile, wildely available 1080p displays on the market, you'd think MS' engineers would find a way to get the two to work together, but noooooo...

If this is the case, I'll likely be taking my XBR2 back. Like the above poster, I bought this TV specifically for using it with my 360. I'm going to have to eat the cost of the VGA cable I ordered, but I'd rather eat the 30 bucks than the 3700.

Originally Posted by Latin-Man

thats interesting to hear. im sure they will work out some updates. besides, they got what, about 2 months to get it worked out before their HD-DVD player rolls out.

Try about a week. EB Games and Amazon both list the HD-DVD drive as shipping on 11/7.

Unless Microsoft addresses this immediately, there are going to be a LOT of people screaming mad.

[phantomhitman]

They have less than a 2 weeks to fix this. The hddvd drives hits Nov 7th. If there is not a fix by then I should still be within the 30 day window for returning my set to bestbuy. I knew I was going to get screwed with the 1.2 hdmi outputs but I didnt expect the vga not to work. This is really really infuriating.
Casualty,
If I can get a contact phone number for you will you help me complain about this (to Microsoft)? I am going to gather all of the xbr2 and 360 owners I can in order to rain hell upon customer support asap.

[Michael252]

Originally Posted by KlDesigns

I'm looking to purchase some HDMI cables for my XBR3. I definetely don't want to get MONSTER CABLE. Are BetterCables, IXOS or Tributaries cables any good? Since HDMI is a digital cable. Will there be a picture quality difference between $50 and $200 HDMI cable?

I've had very good luck with monoprice.com. Some items are close to one-tenth the price of monster for equivalent quality.

[TV Casualty]

Originally Posted by phantomhitman

They have less than a 2 weeks to fix this. The hddvd drives hits Nov 7th. If there is not a fix by then I should still be within the 30 day window for returning my set to bestbuy. I knew I was going to get screwed with the 1.2 hdmi outputs but I didnt expect the vga not to work. This is really really infuriating.
Casualty,
If I can get a contact phone number for you will you help me complain about this (to Microsoft)? I am going to gather all of the xbr2 and 360 owners I can in order to rain hell upon customer support asap.

Absolutely. My VGA cable should be here by this weekend (ordered yesterday). I just bought the XBR2 on Sunday so I'll be well within my return window by the time we figure out what's going on. When I get home tonight I will try it with my component cables tonight in the meantime.

What's sad is I'd like to keep the TV. I don't blame Sony here as the VGA seems to work ok with everything else, but it just comes down to being absolutely satisfied with something that costs this much money.

I've already posted a comment on Major Nelson's blog about it (not that that will do anything).

[phantomhitman]

I already tried component, it does not work at all. It tries to go 1080p but cannot, so it just reverts back to the old setting. This tv does not support 1080p over component, which is fine. But it does support 1080p over vga and should work, but it does not. This pisses me off to no end and is solely pointed at Microsoft. That is unless Sony is fudging some numbers about their vga port....

[phantomhitman]

Here you go guys. Here is the main contact page:
Main Contact

I sent out an email to here which is the 360 hardware questions:
360 harware issues

Here is the phone contact info:
Phone

Assistance by phone seven days a week.
1-800-4MY-XBOX

International (direct dial to U.S.): 425-635-7180

Hearing Impaired (TDD device): 1-866-740-9269 or 425-635-7102

Hours of operation (every day):
9:00 A.M. to 1:00 A.M. Eastern Time
6:00 A.M. to 10:00 P.M. Pacific Time

Please call until their phones melt.

[TV Casualty]

Originally Posted by phantomhitman

That is unless Sony is fudging some numbers about their vga port....

I'd be interested to see if anyone with ANY 1080p TV can get it to work right. I know the v2500 has crippled VGA support (which is why I bought the XBR2). I haven't seen anyone complain yet besides here, but then again, the number of 360 owners who own 1080p TVs is small, and the number of people who DO own one and have messed around with this update so far is even smaller.

[andrewjnyc]

Originally Posted by Latin-Man

quick question though. when you lost the signal through VGA, did you have to switch back to component to reset the display settings back to 720p, or whatever resoulution you were running before. and then, ofcourse, switch back to VGA cuz you had an incompatible signal.

No, I was able to change the resolution to something lower without having to switch back to component. The picture info was cut off at the sides--the image looked like a 1.33:1 box taken from the middle of the 1080p image, with everything outside the box missing--but there was enough of the interface on the screen for me to be able to switch resolutions without swapping out VGA for component.

I'm wondering if this is a 50/60hz issue...MS's info yesterday specified that the update would output 1080p over VGA to 50hz displays only. Is the XBR2 60hz?

[TV Casualty]

Originally Posted by andrewjnyc

I'm wondering if this is a 50/60hz issue...MS's info yesterday specified that the update would output 1080p over VGA to 50hz displays only. Is the XBR2 60hz?

I think you read that wrong - they added support for 50hz HDTVs, but the 1080p update is supposedly for everyone.

Link here:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/...030-update.htm

[Stupac]

People been reporting that the xbr2 will not do 1080p with the 360 over component. The Samsung 4095D will though.

[phantomhitman]

I just read the owners manual, its 60 hz. So the tv is displaying everything correctly but just too large. Have you tried hitting the zoom options on the remote (full-zoom-etc)?

Here is the whole vga section in the manual:
HDTV
1920x1080
horiz frequency-67.5 khz
vertical frequncy-60 Hz

There is a note at the bottom of that page.
-This tv's pc input does not support Sync on Green or Composite Sync.
-This tv's pc input does not support interlaced signals.
-For the best picture quality, it is recommended to use the singals (boldfaced) int he above chart with a 60 Hz vertical frequency froma personal computer. In plug and play, signals with a 60 Hz vertical frequency will be selected automatically.

[gigaguy]

Sorry to break into the game talk but I need some general XBR2 advice. I'm trying to decide while I can return the 40XBR1, to get a V or an XBR2.

I am coming from a Sony 34XBR960 tube set, so picture quality is important to me within certain price/size limits. I definitely can see the LCD/tube differences, good and bad.

This month I got a store demo 40XBR1 (manu date Nov 05). I'm kinda worried it was on torch demo mode for a year? The backlight seems a little dimmer than a newer 32XBR1 I got for the bedroom, but the 40" is in a room with lots of sunlight.

My question - Should I trade the 40XBR1 for a newer Sony 40/46" like the V or XBR2 series? I've read some say the XBR2 improves smoothness and blurring over the XBR1. Some material on the XBR1 is jerky and blurry, but much is excellent. I feel that much of this is due more to the source than to the display. Seems like signal quality can vary greatly. I use cable. I am having my cableguy out tomorrow to fix some weak signals on 2 channels..

[phantomhitman]

Originally Posted by Stupac

People been reporting that the xbr2 will not do 1080p with the 360 over component. The Samsung 4095D will though.

The xbrs do not use component for 1080p, they use vga and hdmi.

[MUGEN]

make sure you use auto adjusment once you get something on the screen then make sure the wide mode is NORMAL.

i'm waiting myself for people to figure this out until i go out and buy vga cables for my 360.

[phantomhitman]

Good I hope this is worked out, I just called and reserved my vga cables. In a few hours I will test this out and let you guys know what I find out.

[TV Casualty]

Originally Posted by phantomhitman

Good I hope this is worked out, I just called and reserved my vga cables. In a few hours I will test this out and let you guys know what I find out.

Ditto. I don't have much hope, but we'll see. If it doesn't....uh, anyone want to buy a VGA cable for the 360?

[Lumpydog]

I'll be pretty peaved if my XBR3 does not work with the 360's VGA, but it aint the end of the world.

My knee-jerk reaction to reading this thread was to throw in the towel on the 360 HD DVD ad-on and cancel it.

However, when you think about it, component will still produce phenominal HD-DVD viewing throught the 360 - via a 1080i signal.

1080i through a set (like the XBR2/3) that upscales to 1080p will produce an image that is indiscernable from a native 1080p signal. With HD DVD, the image is scanned progressively from a film frame that represents a single moment in time - interlacing does no damage to this source material (ie - no jaggies) and maintains all of the original information.

Additionally, consider that the Toshiba HD-A1 only outputs 1080i and what are we really missing?

I'll just use my component cables for now and enjoy the HD DVD capability.

-Lumpy-

I WILL be returning my VGA cable though...

[phantomhitman]

Stop trying to ease my pain dog, as you read before I like p's more than i's
It is more principle, and a boat load of cash, behind my anger. It is a top of the line tv and it is quite obvious Miscrosoft is stiffing the Sony tvs in order to get the Samsungs up and running faster.
HOWEVER,
Lumpydog, are you sure the hd-dvd player can do 1080i over component and are you sure the xbr2 can upconvert them to 1080p? This will ease my pain but this still sucks, something should work as advertisted, from both Sony and Microsoft.

[home_theatre_man]

I can confirm the problems other users are having with the 1920x1080 VGA output from the Xbox 360. Unfortunately, no other resolutions were added.

As expected, the XBR2/3 will not accept 1080p Component from the Xbox 360.

Originally Posted by Lumpydog

1080i through a set (like the XBR2/3) that upscales to 1080p will produce an image that is indiscernable from a native 1080p signal. With HD DVD, the image is scanned progressively from a film frame that represents a single moment in time - interlacing does no damage to this source material (ie - no jaggies) and maintains all of the original information.

In most cases you are correct. However, according to the evaluation performed by Home Theater Magazine, the XBR2/3 fails the 2:3 cadence recognition test at 1080i, so it will not de-interlace 24fps native material correctly. This is the reason that I, for one, had high hopes for the Xbox 360 update.

Chase