HR20-700 First User Impressions

[DeanS]

I apologize to the AVS Forum Administrators if I’m in error in starting this thread. But I thought there ought to be a place for us “early adopters” in the L.A. area to tell AVS Forum members about our initial impressions using D*’s new MPEG 4 compatible HD DVR, the HR20-700. As far as I know, a relative few have actually had their units installed and can report initial impressions. Here are mine:

Installation:

D* requires that their new AT9 dish be installed along with this receiver. As reported, it’s a large dish and heavy, so mounting can be an issue for some. Also, do what I did before I let the installers put the dish up – have them measure your signal strength to be sure it is adequate. This dish requires proper “peaking” and signal strength in order for the HR20 to function properly, according to the installer.

If you have an OTA antenna diplexed into your satellite signal remove the diplexer and run it straight into the back of the HR20. I had to do this. The upside? I ended up receiving 3 additional OTA stations from Mt. Wilson. The downside? I had to pay the installers a “little on the side” to do this and the OTA inputs on the HR20 won’t be active for another couple of months. I’m willing to wait it out.

The HR20 DVR Program Guide:

It’s a sleek looking box with a space-age blue diode circle that performs for you while you operate the box. If you fast-forward on recorded or live T.V. the diodes light up in a circular pattern (clockwise) and counter clockwise for reverse. Paused recordings or live T.V. cause the diodes to pulsate. Fun to watch, but could get distracting after awhile. The box itself is quiet – I can’t hear it – but is warm to the touch.

If you are familiar with the Program Guide on the HD20, this DVR is really the same EXCEPT it is MUCH faster! Yeah! It also scrolls the guide in increments which is somewhat handy. It also has the one-line quick guide, two-touch guide filter, etc. Unfortunately, like the HD20, you must set up Custom Guides (there are two) to filter out stations you don’t receive or would never tune to anyway.

MPEG 2 and MPEG 4 Channels

I was at first confused about this. After the unit is initialized (it takes about 6 or 7 minutes to do this), you and D* have activated your new receiver and DVR service, and guide information is downloaded, you get the channel lineup. For Los Angeles, this means you will find multiple channels for the same station. For example, I see LA2 (D* locals), KCBS (MPEG 4), and the network feed of CBS (CBSWest) – which for us in L.A. is a mirror of their local station here. If I were to add in my OTA reception (when activated) that would add KCBS 2.1 – totaling FOUR channels of the same station!

I think all of this matters more for the future than now. My preference is to just watch the MPEG 2 feeds I had been getting all along from D*. Why? Because some have reported some recording issues with the MPEG 4 stations on this new DVR. I plan to wait until software updates are complete and these early MPEG 4 issues are worked out. I may change my tune, however, if there is an important sporting event on an MPEG 4 channel (Fox Sports West) that comes on next week or the week following.

Watching Live T.V. and Recording Programs

After about 72 hours of experience with this DVR I can report little or no difficulty watching live T.V. pausing it, re-winding it, etc. – the basic functions of a DVR. I have also had no difficulty recording programs (several times 2 programs at once). No audio or video issues to report. Dolby Digital works fine – but I’m limiting my recording to MPEG 2 programs for now.

Here is what we did last night: After setting up Series Link recordings for “Reno 911”, “The Dog Whisperer” and “Vanished”, we started watching the Emmy’s at 8 PM PDT. All through the program we paused it, fast-forwarded through commercials and then watched more programming. BTW the 30-second “slip” button on the remote is FAST, and really does the trick. We gave up on the Emmy’s and pushed the “R” button on the remote. The HR20 began to record the show immediately – from 8:00 PM! We then selected “Reno 911” from the VOD list and watched it – fast-forwarding through commercials. Upon completion of it, I deleted it. All future recordings of Reno 911 are on tap in the “To Do” list and we will be watching the second half of the Emmy’s tonight (while “Vanished” records). It’s really that simple and intuitive.

I have also had success recording movies on HBO-HD including last Saturday’s “In Her Shoes” – scheduled to air at 5 PM PDT. But we watched it at 7 PM off the DVR – absolutely no problems whatsoever. You will probably find it necessary to re-calibrate your display device to accommodate this new DVR, but that is a given whenever you change out equipment of this kind, I think.

Final Thoughts

I can’t say how things will go over the next several weeks, but based on my limited experience thus far, I think this will be a good unit. I have never used a TiVo before, so this is all new to me. I like the idea that I can finally record programs in HD. I like the idea that I’m not tied to the network’s schedule. I also like the idea that I can skip by ads.

Sorry if this “first impressions” review isn’t technical enough for most of you, but I’m just a lay-user of this type of equipment. Hope your experience with this unit (if you decide to order one) is a good one.

[jdegrandpre]

I received my two HR20-700's yesterday. As a user of the HR10-250, it is taking me awhile to learn the commands over the TIVO unit. It's just a different GUI and is different from the TIVO.

Curiously, it has the HDMI connection but the cable does not come with the unit! Have to go to RS, I guess.

I am having trouble with the "Series Links". I can set all first run episodes for some programs but it won't work for others. I am thinking this might have something to do with the guide data not being completely downloaded yet.

I have not see the 30 second skip button.

Overall, I like it and the ability to be interactive. After using TIVO for so long, I just got to get used to it!

Jeff

[thebarge]

For me, the killer compared to the Tivo based HR10-250 is the single live buffer. I will not upgrade until they add a second buffer, or until I'm absolutely forced by D* to do so. Perfect example of why (which I do all the time):

- I'm watching NBC on satellite 1 and I'm 10 minutes behind
- I need to check the weather channel real quick, so I switch to satellite 2 and change to TWC
- I switch back to NBC to continue watching, and find that it's live with no back buffer so I lose the 10 minutes (plus the time I watched TWC)

I frequently toggle satellite inputs. If we're watching something and my wife needs to do something real quick, I'll pause what we're watching and switch to the other input until she's done and switch back. I couldn't stand to lose this functionality.

[scottnsturbridge]

Are they going to make it dual live buffers with a software upgrade? Knowing this I may wait also since I do the same thing with MY WIFE!

[thebarge]

Originally Posted by scottnsturbridge

Are they going to make it dual live buffers with a software upgrade? Knowing this I may wait also since I do the same thing with MY WIFE!

Yeah, mine will drive me nuts with this. She'll either have to get on the phone, fix a snack, get the mail, etc. I can't complain too much though, I do the same thing on occasion. But I just can't live without dual buffers. Maybe they'll add it in a future software update.

[hotsauce]

If I had to choose one feature I couldn't live without it would be the dual buffers and knowing that I've been looking forward to this hd dvr for so long just to have that be the feature they left off is sickening.

[BC3]

I am in the same boat. I know I'm going to get the HR-20 regardless but can we start to voice our outrage at the omission of the dual buffer feature. I've posted on different threads but I still don't have an answer. Is this a software issue that could be added with future downloads? The theory I'm going with is that, in their rush to get the unit to market, they left this feature off and will come back and add it at a later date. I can't think of anything inherent to mpeg4 or the new box that would prohibit them from being able to continue to provide this feature. A 30-sec skip button seems more threatening to the networks than duel buffer so I doubt they had anything to do with the feature being dropped.

Obviously the ability to time-shift and record HD content far outweighs the loss of this feature but a lot of us have viewing habits that will be hard to adjust back to a single buffer.

Is this topic worthy of it's own thread?

GIVE ME DUEL BUFFER OR GIVE ME DEATH!

[thebarge]

I completely agree with you. I think they're just focusing on the more "major" problems/features prior to focusing on the dual buffer. Apparently "they" are monitoring threads on dbstalk and are aware of the public outcry for dual buffers.

I suspect they will definitely add the feature in the future. How soon? Who knows. For now I'm just hoping they update my HR10-250 to 6.3 so I can get a speedy guide and folders.

[DixonJDixon]

There's no way in hell I'd consider getting the HR20-700 w/o dual buffers. This is not a technological issue. D* won't allow dual buffers because they want to be downloading their crap whenever they want. Dual buffers forces them to do it in the dead of night. Their greed will cost them.

I can't wait for the S3 to come out. I'll probably keep D* until the NFL season is over, but cut back to minimum programming. Then I'll get rid of Rupert for good. I'll get Comcast as soon as the S3 comes out and I read some positive reviews. If I overlap a month or 2 I'll live with it.

[turbobuick86]

Okay, I'm a little behind on the HR20 stuff and searching brought so many old speculative threads.... hoping some kind soul will answer a few quick questions, please. The unit was installed yesterday and so far I'm only frustrated by what's missing.

When I run the setup guide, my choice for sat&ant is grayed out. So am I reading correctly that OTA HD is not supported? Insane! How can they release this thing and not allow us all to receive HD that is currently being broadcast for free? Are they hoping everyone will buy the HD package to fill their needs?

The short list of HD being recorded at our house consists of Everyone Loves Raymond on KTLA-5 HD in Los Angeles and I record many programs from PBS-HD like Nova and many concerts. Neither of these stations show up on my guide! Rediculous and not acceptable! Also channel 9 and 13 don't show a digital twin.

When the installer left, I did install my OTA antenna cable and reset the whole works. The HR20 did appear to remap my HD locals next to Network channels in the guide. That is I now have 2 sets of channel 2, two sets of channel 4 etc., but I am not receiving any OTA? When can we expect this to be working?

So far I am totally unimpressed with this unit as it also does not recognize my Yamaha receiver for programming the remote. My receiver is model RX-V3200 and is only about 5 years old. Neither of the two codes provided worked.

The installer inadvertantly programmed the volume control on my TV into the remote. How do I unprogram that? I only want the TV to be turned off/on and input changable, no volume. Volume control for receiver only.

Thanks for any assistance...

[thebarge]

Originally Posted by turbobuick86

When I run the setup guide, my choice for sat&ant is grayed out. So am I reading correctly that OTA HD is not supported? Insane! How can they release this thing and not allow us all to receive HD that is currently being broadcast for free? Are they hoping everyone will buy the HD package to fill their needs?

It's just disabled for now. They'll enable OTA. The HR20 has 2 OTA tuners.

Originally Posted by turbobuick86

The short list of HD being recorded at our house consists of Everyone Loves Raymond on KTLA-5 HD in Los Angeles and I record many programs from PBS-HD like Nova and many concerts. Neither of these stations show up on my guide! Rediculous and not acceptable! Also channel 9 and 13 don't show a digital twin.

Don't know what to tell you about this. I'm guessing they haven't adding those local channels yet? Call D* and ask them what the heck is going on.

Originally Posted by turbobuick86

When the installer left, I did install my OTA antenna cable and reset the whole works. The HR20 did appear to remap my HD locals next to Network channels in the guide. That is I now have 2 sets of channel 2, two sets of channel 4 etc., but I am not receiving any OTA? When can we expect this to be working?

As I mentioned earlier, it's just not enabled yet. The speculation I heard was that they'll be enabling it in October. I suspect it'll be sooner though.

Originally Posted by turbobuick86

So far I am totally unimpressed with this unit as it also does not recognize my Yamaha receiver for programming the remote. My receiver is model RX-V3200 and is only about 5 years old. Neither of the two codes provided worked.

I've seen pics of that remote and it looks horrible. Run out and buy a Logitech Harmony remote or something. I've read good things about that remote.

Originally Posted by turbobuick86

The installer inadvertantly programmed the volume control on my TV into the remote. How do I unprogram that? I only want the TV to be turned off/on and input changable, no volume. Volume control for receiver only.

Sorry, I don't know anything about the remote that comes with the HR20. Check out the Harmony. I own an old Home Theatre Master MX-500 (learning remote) and I use it for everything, including my HR10-250. I don't have an HR20, but I've done a ton of research on it.

[dandrewk]

As far as I know, local PBS stations are not part of the Mpeg 4 local station lineup on D* yet. Only the major networks and maybe one independent, along with FSN.

[thebarge]

Originally Posted by dandrewk

As far as I know, local PBS stations are not part of the Mpeg 4 local station lineup on D* yet. Only the major networks and maybe one independent, along with FSN.

FSN or RSN? I keep hearing something about some regional sports channel (RSN) being broadcast in mpeg-4.

[dandrewk]

I had my HR20 installed yesterday. It took over five hours! Partly because the installer was a tad spacey, but mostly because it was his first HR20 installation. Thus, he didn't do one thing that I suspect he will learn soon:

Wait for D* to download the software upgrade(s) before you try to actually do anything on the HR20! The process should start withing a few minutes after activation. If you don't do this, your box will freeze and reboot often. Trust me, the updates solve a lot of problems. We spent tons of time waiting while the box kept rebooting. After the upgrade, no probs.

Oh, and if you activate yourself, remember to remind the rep that you have the HR20, NOT the HD20. This happened to us, and it required long hold waits for tier 2 tech support to activate the DVR service.

Note there are still a couple of issues - the OTA not being activated is one. The other is problems with DD audio on Mpeg 4 channels. If you flip between the Mpeg 2 and 4 versions of a local channel, the Mpeg 4 audio will drop out. You can "fix" this by going to any non-local channel with Mpeg 2, then go back. This does -not- affect recordings, only playback. I solved it by simple removing the Mpeg 2 locals from my favorites.

First impressions - I had the HR10, but this is a new animal. It takes a bit of time to get used to the new menus/guides, but I am kinda liking it. Switching channels is faster, and recording LOTS faster - no more long "one moment"s while the HD10 set up a simple recoding. It is now instant.

Setting up season passes is a lot different - rtfm for this one. I am able to do it, but will have to see how it performs. I have heard that another known issue is the "to do" list does not update quickly once you set up season passes. Users have reported the recording doesn't show up on the list until an hour or so before it's scheduled start. But it does record.

I really like the new "quick" menu. Fast, contextual and intuitive.

I like how, after you hit record but before the recording stops, you are given the option of "stop recording, delete". No more going to "list" to fix accidents.

I love the new "active" channel, especially the "channel mix" which displays several channels at once and allows you to choose which audio you want. This is great for sports channels. As of yet, I don't think the user can choose which channels. This would be real neat when there are a few games you want to see happening at the same time. You can monitor them, similar to a poor man's sports casino.

The other feature that I love is being able to zip around the guide. It's lighting fast, you can go forward/back in 12 hour chunks, or easily go directly to a day/time.

Besides the known issues, my only other complaint is having to recalibrate my plasma monitor. The blacks on 480i are way too flashed, and seems to be worse on some channels. Minor quibble, others have mentioned it, so I am confident that it will be tweaked in further updates.

I will report back after I have had a chance to play with it a bit. If you jump in now, you will be part of the "early adopter" beta testing, so expect glitches here and there. None of the ones I have come across are close to deal breakers, and the pluses far outweigh the negatives. The updates have been coming every week or two, and each one (from what I have read) is picking off the major issues.

[dandrewk]

Originally Posted by thebarge

FSN or RSN? I keep hearing something about some regional sports channel (RSN) being broadcast in mpeg-4.

FSN, and most likely all RSN's, are Mpeg 4 and Mpeg 2. Like local channels, if you want them in HD, you need Mpeg 4.

Currently, they are on channels in the upper 90's. For FSNBA, it's channel 96.

[av8nautiger]

Great! Last week I bought a 50" plasma and I am a current E* satellite customer; I have my HD DVR E* model Vip 622 installation scheduled for next week. I just heard about this Dtv HR20 and am intrigued. If I switch to Dtv I can get a good deal as a new customer although I would have to purchase this HR20 separately. I have read things about Dtv HD not being of the same quality as E* and of course not having the quantity of HD channels. How is the PQ with this new system? If it gets good reviews then I may switch as E* will require an 18 mo commitment with my upgrade. to switch or not...that is the question!

[steady teddy]

I hooked up the HR20 to my 2 day old Sony KDL-40XBR3 and there is no sound through HDMI. I get a messgae on the TV that says "audio device not supported".

Oh well, at least I can get a picture and can listen through my HT. I couldn't get any picture at all from my HR10-250 via HDMI. I also have a H20 that I moved to a different room and had no audio/video problem with that unit.

[turbobuick86]

Thanks for the tips guys. I'm going to go back to the HR10 Tivo unit until this thing is closer to fully functioning. Our favorite programs aren't available until they update this thing. I called tech support and they said it could be 90 days before OTA is activated. Strange that OTA is such a big ordeal to implement.

[mikepinkerton]

What I don't get is that for the screens that list large numbers of items (todo list, prioritizer, etc) why do you only get to see 5 items at a time!? 80% of the screen is taken up with the sidebar or a useless help banner or the currently playing channel, leaving room to see only five items at a time out of a list of potentially hundreds.

Mind you, all I've seen are screenshots, but from what i know about my current D* hardware, it seems to jive with the shots.

What's up here? Shouldn't they strive to maximize the screen space for the things you actually need to see? I feel I'm going to be insanely disappointed after being an 8 year tivo owner.
-Mike

[dandrewk]

There are things that are better than TiVo, there are things that are worse. There will things you will happy about, there will be things you will miss.

It's not a TiVo, it's useless to hope it will be the same. If you want an integrated receiver/DVR, you will need the HR20 for new content. It's not perfect, but for me at least, the improvements outweigh its faults.

[Jeff Richardson]

I see a lot of people posting that OTA is currently not active on the HR-20 but will be in a few months. What I haven't seen is -- WHY? OTA HD seems like such a basic function. Is there some technical reason that it could not be enabled when this product debuted? Doesn't make any sense to me.

[turbobuick86]

Our new HR20 is installed under the bed until OTA is activated. The lack of HD on PBS and other independent HD networks is a fatal flaw in our house.

I'm sure things will get better down the road. Until then, we're back on the HR10.

[arxaw]

LG makes receivers that end in -600.
RCA makes receivers that end in -100.

Who makes the HR20-700 for DirecTV?

[jabbathespud]

UPS dropped off my HR20-700 yesterday. I don't have a AT9 dish but do have an OTA which receives all the SFBA HD stations. Alas, the antenna is disabled for the HR20 and since I don't have a AT9, I currently have no local HD with the HR20. The only useful MPEG4 station is FSNBA-HD but I get that via Comcast. Since I use diplexers to get my OTA/Cable along with satellite, the AT9 becomes problematic.

Other than that, it took about 40 minutes to swap a Samsung TS160 with the HR20-700. Most of that was downloading update 008e.

My first impressions of the remote is that it sucks. The button positions are unnatural and its impossible to use in the dark since you can't tell what's what.

In summary, the HR20-700 makes me apprecriate the HR10-250 even more. It even makes wonder if a Series 3 TiVo might be a better alternative.

[eggre]

I've been using my HR20 for about a week. It's my third DVR (though my first HD one), after Ultimate and Tivo. I have to say I'm disappointed. Yeah, it records HD, but in terms of UI ease and unit reliability, it's the buggiest of the three. Sometimes it freezes. Some shows don't record successfully at all. Sometimes when I press rewind during live viewing, the thing freezes and I have to change channels to unfreeze, thereby losing my buffer. There's no rhyme or reason to it. Just last night I was watching a concert and pressed record. Everything looked normal, yet when I went back to review it later, I was greeted with black screen. This has happened a couple times, and the first time it happens with something I really care about, I'll be enraged.

Anyone else experiencing viewing/recording glitches?

[dandrewk]

None of your DVR's records MPEG 4, and none of them from a brand new satellite that does nothing but MPEG 4.

So yeah, it's buggy, but then (like it or not) we are early adopter beta testers. Have you noticed that the unit has only been officially released in on area? That should tell you something. At least D* is not Dish, who would have released it nationally with all the known bugs.

All of the issues you mentioned have been well documented and described in this forum countless times. D* is aware of the issues, and the latest update patch is currently in beta. What glitches it attempts to fix is unknown, but you may want to wait and not let your disappointment get the best of you.

[eggre]

Originally Posted by dandrewk

None of your DVR's records MPEG 4, and none of them from a brand new satellite that does nothing but MPEG 4.

So yeah, it's buggy, but then (like it or not) we are early adopter beta testers. Have you noticed that the unit has only been officially released in on area? That should tell you something. At least D* is not Dish, who would have released it nationally with all the known bugs.

All of the issues you mentioned have been well documented and described in this forum countless times. D* is aware of the issues, and the latest update patch is currently in beta. What glitches it attempts to fix is unknown, but you may want to wait and not let your disappointment get the best of you.

I'm not sure why I'm being lectured for simply responding to the thread's topic. I'm obviously well aware that this DVR is different, as I said as much. I obviously know about the rollout schedule, as I'm as early an adopter as you'll find in my market. Moreover, this is not a beta. Betas are billed as such and freely distributed to beta testers. This is a commercial release sold through retail outlets. To call it a beta now is disingenuous excuse-making. Do I expect bugs in a 1.0 release? Yes. Did I expect this many? No. Did I expect the unit to fail at doing its basest function, that being the simple recording of a program? An emphatic no. Clearly, I'm the problem.

[dandrewk]

Originally Posted by eggre

I'm not sure why I'm being lectured for simply responding to the thread's topic. I'm obviously well aware that this DVR is different, as I said as much. I obviously know about the rollout schedule, as I'm as early an adopter as you'll find in my market. Moreover, this is not a beta. Betas are billed as such and freely distributed to beta testers. This is a commercial release sold through retail outlets. To call it a beta now is disingenuous excuse-making. Do I expect bugs in a 1.0 release? Yes. Did I expect this many? No. Did I expect the unit to fail at doing its basest function, that being the simple recording of a program? An emphatic no. Clearly, I'm the problem.

If you are so "aware", then why did you list all the problems that have been listed before? And why did you not expect the problems, since they have been well documented before you got yours installed.

You can play around with semantics all you want. But if you buy first generation -anything- at initial release, you are a beta tester. As I said before, like it or not. And, in fact, the CSRs at DirecTV still refer to the HR20 as "being beta tested in the LA area." That's from their script.

Ask any of us who got first generation TiVos. If you think the HR20 has more problems than typically expected, think again.

[RubberToe]

Hi,
I'm new to the MPEG-4 discussion, but our building (MDU) may be putting in a new DirecTv distribution system and I'm curious about some of the comments here.

Lots of discussion of the HR20's current inability to record OTA-HD material. I thought that one of the benefits of the new MPEG-4 system was that HD-LIL would be available, so the device could record your local stations broadcasts in HD as received from the satellite. I guess if some stations were not available in MPEG-4, one poster mentioned PBS-HD, then the OTA tuner would be the only choice. PBS-HD would be one of my most watched channels for sure.

From my perspective, as a 5 year user of Tivo without HD, having to wait a few months for the capability to record OTA-HD is not that big a deal if I get the other local channels from the sat in HD, plus all the other national DirecTv feeds. Those of you that have been used to watching a lot of HD recently might certainly have a different threshold of what is acceptable versus not acceptable

Robert

[thebarge]

Originally Posted by dandrewk

If you are so "aware", then why did you list all the problems that have been listed before? And why did you not expect the problems, since they have been well documented before you got yours installed.

You can play around with semantics all you want. But if you buy first generation -anything- at initial release, you are a beta tester. As I said before, like it or not. And, in fact, the CSRs at DirecTV still refer to the HR20 as "being beta tested in the LA area." That's from their script.

Ask any of us who got first generation TiVos. If you think the HR20 has more problems than typically expected, think again.

I think eggre is just posting about his distaste for the HR20 to be able to do the most basic function (along with some other smaller problems) that a DVR can do: record a program reliably

I, for one, welcome as many people who post both praises and problems about the HR20 even if those problems overlap. If we have 50 posts in here saying how it can't reliably record programs, then it's a very serious problem. If one person posts it and no one else has the problem, it could be a fluke.

Just because someone else may have already mentioned the problem doesn't mean someone else can't come along and post that they're having the same problem. I'm just closely following these HR20 threads to see when it finally makes it to a quality that I can live with (and has dual live buffers).