Finally - the REAL VTF-3 HO is here !

DrewB · 10-15-06, 03:34 PM

Just thought some of you here would be interested. I'm coming from a Velo CT-150 and had good intentions of comparing it to my new HO. One quick listen to the HO and the CT-150 has now been unplugged and in the washer room ever since

. Keep it comin' Craig.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2275

bfdtv · 10-15-06, 05:41 PM

Interesting...so the final version of the VTF-3 HO ($799), in 22Hz mode, delivers measured performance that falls between the PBS12-Plus/2 ($1199) and Velodyne DD-18 ($4499).

With the Turbo eyesore installed ($899), the VTF-3 HO performs 2-3dB under the DD-18.

Looking forward to more detailed measurements / tests.

craigsub · 10-15-06, 06:43 PM

Let's see if we can keep this nice ...

Velodyne DD-18 on Lightning scene ...

DD-18 on Pods Emerge scene ...

Hsu VTF-3 HO in 22 Hz setting, Lightning Scene ...

Hsu VTF-3 HO in 22 Hz setting, Pods emerge scene ...

SVS PB12-Plus/2 in 20 Hz tuning, Lightning Scene ...

SVS PB12-Plus/2 in 20 Hz tuning, Pods emerge scene ...

Hsu VTF-3 HO Turbo Lightning scene...

Hsu VTF-3 HO Turbo Pods emerge scene ...

bfdtv · 10-15-06, 07:08 PM

It would be easier to compare if you overlaid the graphs, craig.

Will you be conducting any further tests soon? Would like to see how 16hz tune compared to 22hz tune.

craigsub · 10-15-06, 07:11 PM

bfdtv - the bottom 2 graphs were done in the 16 Hz tuning with the Turbo installed. I am hoping we get lucky and get some warm, dry days before winter rolls in, so some 2 meter GP tests can be done.

We have had the wettest, coldest October I can recall.

I don't yet no how to overlay the graphs .. JeffD2 has done some for me in the past, and if anyone wants to do some overlays, feel free.

cschang · 10-15-06, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfdtv

It would be easier to compare if you overlaid the graphs, craig.

Will you be conducting any further tests soon? Would also like to see the HO at a different tune.

What other tunes? He has shown 22hz...which is no Turbo both ports open, and 16hz tune with Turbo both ports open. The only configuration left is 16hz/no Turbo/one port open.

There is one config that does not have an amp setting. That would be Turbo with one port. Supposedly this is around a 12hz tune.

craigsub · 10-15-06, 07:27 PM

Curtis, I had not identified the last graphs as being in the 16 Hz setting, and that was "my bad", as I went under the assumption everyone knew that adding the turbo meant the 16 Hz setting was the ONLY way to use the Turbo.

You know what they say about ASSuming ...

cschang · 10-15-06, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigsub

Curtis, I had not identified the last graphs as being in the 16 Hz setting, and that was "my bad", as I went under the assumption everyone knew that adding the turbo meant the 16 Hz setting was the ONLY way to use the Turbo.

You know what they say about ASSuming ...

Ahhh, "my bad" too....I was ASSuming the same thing.

Mark Seaton · 10-15-06, 08:43 PM

Hi Craig,

For the sake of clarity and understanding what we are seeing, were these all at the same main volume settings or do these correspond to a maximum level before audible distress?

craigsub · 10-15-06, 08:57 PM

Mark ... These are max output before audible distortion is noticeable. I also had the SPL meter next to the microphone, and checked SPL levels there against what was showing on the TrueRTA screen ... it was always within 2 dB.

I also ran the subs @ about 10 dB "hot" ... to keep my sanity.

Basically, what you are seeing is an in room, Let's torture each subwoofer with a devastating disc and see what they can do, session.

Legairre · 10-15-06, 09:15 PM

Wow 10 dB hot, Craig when you're not testing and just watching a movie how hot do you normally run your sub(s)?

Also what was your MV on when you made these graphs and do you use AVIA or VE when calibrating?

craigsub · 10-15-06, 09:25 PM

I normally run 2 dB hot, just for the extra impact. I am not even watching the movie for these scenes. What I have learned about this disc is to set dialogue at appx. 70 dB ... then turn the sub output up by an extra 7-8 dB, and run the scenes while watching the meters. I then usually work a few extra dB in output during these scenes before hitting the max each sub can do.

I know it may sound unusual, but what I am trying to find out is how hard can these subs deliver the bass in these scenes.

It is not even close to how I listen normally.

I do find it interesting and informative as each sub is in the same spot, in the same room, playing the same scenes in a "peak hold" setting for this particular exercise.

jonnyozero3 · 10-15-06, 10:35 PM

Wow, the lightning scene likes the turbo. Looks like you lose ~3dB around 46Hz to gain about 7dB at 12 Hz? Interesting (if that's a valid conclusion from such information).

craigsub · 10-16-06, 07:10 AM

Jon - The Turbo does add a nice element of that infrasonic, tactile feel to the bass response. Obviously, I have had a lot of subwoofers through our systems here, and most of them have been excellent performers.

The new PB12-Plus/2 is, in its own right, a very good subwoofer. It is deep, powerful, and "tight".

However, in direct A/B comparisons, subjectively, the VTF-3HO is actually even better. It has more of that percussive ability of the DD-18, and also energizes the room with more pressure than does the SVS.

The SVS does move a little more air in the 30 Hz region, but the Hsu is a better balanced overall package.

It is remarkable for a single 12 inch driver design.

Does this mean someone should run out and sell his SVS ? No.

Does this mean everyone will experience what I am here ? No.

Does this mean Hsu is back in the game with an excellent performer that goes toe to toe with any subwoofer under $1500 ? Absolutely.

We have a lot more "work" to be done here - including running dual HO's, and trying the single driver Ultra against the HO.

Hopefully, we can keep this "nice", and get more results.

jonnyozero3 · 10-16-06, 12:26 PM

Running dual HOs?

How about a Running Ho Duel? It's like a women's college track meet gone bad...

cschang · 10-16-06, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyozero3

Running dual HOs?

How about a Running Ho Duel? It's like a women's college track meet gone bad...

OK Jonny...you have to redeem yourself for that one.

jonnyozero3 · 10-16-06, 01:51 PM

Yeah that was pretty bad wasn't it?

cschang · 10-16-06, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyozero3

Yeah that was pretty bad wasn't it?

Yeah, you seem to have better lines in the evening and after a beer or two.

ThomasV555 · 10-16-06, 02:53 PM

Craig,
If you can do acomparison of the data for the VTF3 MKII and the VTF3 HO , I would appreciate it. I know you probably just have graphs and not the actual units.

Thanks for spending the time to do these comparisons.

jonnyozero3 · 10-16-06, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cschang

Yeah, you seem to have better lines in the evening and after a beer or two.

Lol, that actually does make me feel a little better.

Hey Curtis - you are good luck. Fedex just pulled up and I now have a new HO driver. No I didn't keep the cute Fedex employee...sheesh. (I made that terrible on purpose...I swear)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomasV555

Craig,
If you can do acomparison of the data for the VTF3 MKII and the VTF3 HO , I would appreciate it. I know you probably just have graphs and not the actual units.

Thanks for spending the time to do these comparisons.

Call me crazy but I think I'd also like to see Ilkka get his hands on one - so we'd have the shack graphs to check out as a basis of comparison.

ThomasV555 · 10-16-06, 04:31 PM

Agreed about Illka and it would be nice if HSU would actually put up some frequency response graphs on their own website for "each" of their subs.
That way you can easily compare their own data amongst each other and if we get some more datapoints outside of their data we can start making educated extrapolations.

ssabripo · 10-16-06, 05:57 PM

Ed Mullen or Ilkka measurements would be pretty nice on this sub....

RMK! · 10-16-06, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssabripo

Ed Mullen or Ilkka measurements would be pretty nice on this sub....

At this point your gonna have to wait until the spring thaw.

JeffD2. · 10-16-06, 07:50 PM

Lightning scene- DD18 may be +- 1/2 dB

Don't have time to do the pod scene right now, son's basketball season in full swing.

DrewB · 10-16-06, 10:22 PM

I'm lovin' this...

...sounds of crickets!

jonnyozero3 · 10-16-06, 10:32 PM

Jeff - you are the man. Thank you. Just for clarity's sake, is that +/- 1/2dB or +/- 1 to 2dB for the Velo?

TJEli · 10-16-06, 11:44 PM

Great info guys. Keep it coming. What I am enjoying is seeing how close the competition is becoming. All three of these are excellent subwoofers.

-Eli

MUCHO · 10-17-06, 02:58 AM

Hello - would it be safe to say then - that this would be a definate upgrade from my SVS 20-30 PC+ using their latest 12.3 driver? From this thread it appears to be a definate yes.

I have had a pre-order in since February and to be frank I forgot about it completely until HSU called.

I originally was planning to sell the SVS when the HO was ready. Not so sure now.

Thoughts?

craigsub · 10-17-06, 07:03 AM

Eli ... You nailed it ... all three are just outstanding. In fact, I may try the SVS with the baseplate off - my previous Plus/2 (.2) sounded better as did the Ultra, in this room. For the $$$$, both the Plus/2 12.3 and VTF-3 HO are REALLY impressive.

Mucho, Absolutely, for the few $$$$, the upgrade is well worth it. Should you sell your current sub and grab the HO, or just upgrade the current ? That is a very close call.

dlipter · 10-17-06, 10:12 AM

Where is the VTF-3 HO on the HSU site?

dlipter

Never mind..........http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hsu+vs+rythmik

10-15-06, 03:34 PM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
DrewB Advanced Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Minnesota Posts: 691	Finally - the REAL VTF-3 HO is here ! Just thought some of you here would be interested. I'm coming from a Velo CT-150 and had good intentions of comparing it to my new HO. One quick listen to the HO and the CT-150 has now been unplugged and in the washer room ever since . Keep it comin' Craig. http://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2275

10-15-06, 06:43 PM	#3 \| Link
craigsub I like this hobby AVS GOLD CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Erie, Pa. Posts: 10,659	Let's see if we can keep this nice ... Velodyne DD-18 on Lightning scene ... DD-18 on Pods Emerge scene ... Hsu VTF-3 HO in 22 Hz setting, Lightning Scene ... Hsu VTF-3 HO in 22 Hz setting, Pods emerge scene ... SVS PB12-Plus/2 in 20 Hz tuning, Lightning Scene ... SVS PB12-Plus/2 in 20 Hz tuning, Pods emerge scene ... Hsu VTF-3 HO Turbo Lightning scene... Hsu VTF-3 HO Turbo Pods emerge scene ... __________________ Owner of Tweak City Audio link to subwoofer summary

10-15-06, 07:11 PM	#5 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
craigsub I like this hobby AVS GOLD CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Erie, Pa. Posts: 10,659	bfdtv - the bottom 2 graphs were done in the 16 Hz tuning with the Turbo installed. I am hoping we get lucky and get some warm, dry days before winter rolls in, so some 2 meter GP tests can be done. We have had the wettest, coldest October I can recall. I don't yet no how to overlay the graphs .. JeffD2 has done some for me in the past, and if anyone wants to do some overlays, feel free. __________________ Owner of Tweak City Audio link to subwoofer summary

10-15-06, 07:27 PM	#7 \| Link
craigsub I like this hobby AVS GOLD CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Erie, Pa. Posts: 10,659	Curtis, I had not identified the last graphs as being in the 16 Hz setting, and that was "my bad", as I went under the assumption everyone knew that adding the turbo meant the 16 Hz setting was the ONLY way to use the Turbo. You know what they say about ASSuming ... __________________ Owner of Tweak City Audio link to subwoofer summary

10-15-06, 08:43 PM	#9 \| Link
Mark Seaton AVS Special Member AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Posts: 4,576	Hi Craig, For the sake of clarity and understanding what we are seeing, were these all at the same main volume settings or do these correspond to a maximum level before audible distress? __________________ Mark Seaton Seaton Sound, Inc. "Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood..." Daniel H. Burnham

10-15-06, 05:41 PM	#2 \| Link
bfdtv AVS Addicted Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 12,909	Interesting...so the final version of the VTF-3 HO ($799), in 22Hz mode, delivers measured performance that falls between the PBS12-Plus/2 ($1199) and Velodyne DD-18 ($4499). With the Turbo eyesore installed ($899), the VTF-3 HO performs 2-3dB under the DD-18. Looking forward to more detailed measurements / tests.

10-15-06, 07:08 PM	#4 \| Link
bfdtv AVS Addicted Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 12,909	It would be easier to compare if you overlaid the graphs, craig. Will you be conducting any further tests soon? Would like to see how 16hz tune compared to 22hz tune.

10-15-06, 08:57 PM	#10 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
craigsub I like this hobby AVS GOLD CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Erie, Pa. Posts: 10,659	Mark ... These are max output before audible distortion is noticeable. I also had the SPL meter next to the microphone, and checked SPL levels there against what was showing on the TrueRTA screen ... it was always within 2 dB. I also ran the subs @ about 10 dB "hot" ... to keep my sanity. Basically, what you are seeing is an in room, Let's torture each subwoofer with a devastating disc and see what they can do, session. __________________ Owner of Tweak City Audio link to subwoofer summary

10-15-06, 09:15 PM	#11 \| Link
Legairre All about the sound Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 2,830	Wow 10 dB hot, Craig when you're not testing and just watching a movie how hot do you normally run your sub(s)? Also what was your MV on when you made these graphs and do you use AVIA or VE when calibrating? __________________ "What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!" Radden Home Theater

10-15-06, 09:25 PM	#12 \| Link
craigsub I like this hobby AVS GOLD CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Erie, Pa. Posts: 10,659	I normally run 2 dB hot, just for the extra impact. I am not even watching the movie for these scenes. What I have learned about this disc is to set dialogue at appx. 70 dB ... then turn the sub output up by an extra 7-8 dB, and run the scenes while watching the meters. I then usually work a few extra dB in output during these scenes before hitting the max each sub can do. I know it may sound unusual, but what I am trying to find out is how hard can these subs deliver the bass in these scenes. It is not even close to how I listen normally. I do find it interesting and informative as each sub is in the same spot, in the same room, playing the same scenes in a "peak hold" setting for this particular exercise. __________________ Owner of Tweak City Audio link to subwoofer summary Last edited by craigsub; 10-15-06 at 09:53 PM..

10-15-06, 10:35 PM	#13 \| Link
jonnyozero3 Mert Decoder Join Date: May 2004 Location: 000000N 0000000E Posts: 1,469 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	Wow, the lightning scene likes the turbo. Looks like you lose ~3dB around 46Hz to gain about 7dB at 12 Hz? Interesting (if that's a valid conclusion from such information). __________________ - Jon "010 Meh" Ascend Acoustics Owners Google Map

10-16-06, 07:10 AM	#14 \| Link
craigsub I like this hobby AVS GOLD CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Erie, Pa. Posts: 10,659	Jon - The Turbo does add a nice element of that infrasonic, tactile feel to the bass response. Obviously, I have had a lot of subwoofers through our systems here, and most of them have been excellent performers. The new PB12-Plus/2 is, in its own right, a very good subwoofer. It is deep, powerful, and "tight". However, in direct A/B comparisons, subjectively, the VTF-3HO is actually even better. It has more of that percussive ability of the DD-18, and also energizes the room with more pressure than does the SVS. The SVS does move a little more air in the 30 Hz region, but the Hsu is a better balanced overall package. It is remarkable for a single 12 inch driver design. Does this mean someone should run out and sell his SVS ? No. Does this mean everyone will experience what I am here ? No. Does this mean Hsu is back in the game with an excellent performer that goes toe to toe with any subwoofer under $1500 ? Absolutely. We have a lot more "work" to be done here - including running dual HO's, and trying the single driver Ultra against the HO. Hopefully, we can keep this "nice", and get more results. __________________ Owner of Tweak City Audio link to subwoofer summary

10-16-06, 12:26 PM	#15 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
jonnyozero3 Mert Decoder Join Date: May 2004 Location: 000000N 0000000E Posts: 1,469 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	Running dual HOs? How about a Running Ho Duel? It's like a women's college track meet gone bad... __________________ - Jon "010 Meh" Ascend Acoustics Owners Google Map

10-16-06, 01:51 PM	#17 \| Link
jonnyozero3 Mert Decoder Join Date: May 2004 Location: 000000N 0000000E Posts: 1,469 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	Yeah that was pretty bad wasn't it? __________________ - Jon "010 Meh" Ascend Acoustics Owners Google Map

10-16-06, 02:53 PM	#19 \| Link
ThomasV555 Hey, I'm a Troll ;) Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 964	Craig, If you can do acomparison of the data for the VTF3 MKII and the VTF3 HO , I would appreciate it. I know you probably just have graphs and not the actual units. Thanks for spending the time to do these comparisons.

10-16-06, 04:31 PM	#21 \| Link
ThomasV555 Hey, I'm a Troll ;) Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 964	Agreed about Illka and it would be nice if HSU would actually put up some frequency response graphs on their own website for "each" of their subs. That way you can easily compare their own data amongst each other and if we get some more datapoints outside of their data we can start making educated extrapolations.

10-16-06, 05:57 PM	#22 \| Link
ssabripo gimme DIY or death Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Plantation, Floriduh Posts: 5,853	Ed Mullen or Ilkka measurements would be pretty nice on this sub.... __________________ .___ _ / __\| \|_ ___ _ ___ __ Equipment schematic \__ \ ' \/ -_) '_\ V / . my Wireless setup! \|___/_\|\|_\___\|_\| \_/ DIY interconnects

10-16-06, 07:50 PM	#24 \| Link
JeffD2. Weekend Troll Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 971	Lightning scene- DD18 may be +- 1/2 dB Don't have time to do the pod scene right now, son's basketball season in full swing.

10-16-06, 10:22 PM	#25 \| Link
DrewB Advanced Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Minnesota Posts: 691	I'm lovin' this... ...sounds of crickets!

10-16-06, 10:32 PM	#26 \| Link
jonnyozero3 Mert Decoder Join Date: May 2004 Location: 000000N 0000000E Posts: 1,469 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	Jeff - you are the man. Thank you. Just for clarity's sake, is that +/- 1/2dB or +/- 1 to 2dB for the Velo? __________________ - Jon "010 Meh" Ascend Acoustics Owners Google Map Last edited by jonnyozero3; 10-16-06 at 10:48 PM..

10-16-06, 11:44 PM	#27 \| Link
TJEli My house hates me Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Iron Mountain, Michigan Posts: 1,119	Great info guys. Keep it coming. What I am enjoying is seeing how close the competition is becoming. All three of these are excellent subwoofers. -Eli __________________ AV Nut

10-17-06, 02:58 AM	#28 \| Link
MUCHO AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,125	Hello - would it be safe to say then - that this would be a definate upgrade from my SVS 20-30 PC+ using their latest 12.3 driver? From this thread it appears to be a definate yes. I have had a pre-order in since February and to be frank I forgot about it completely until HSU called. I originally was planning to sell the SVS when the HO was ready. Not so sure now. Thoughts?

10-17-06, 07:03 AM	#29 \| Link
craigsub I like this hobby AVS GOLD CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Erie, Pa. Posts: 10,659	Eli ... You nailed it ... all three are just outstanding. In fact, I may try the SVS with the baseplate off - my previous Plus/2 (.2) sounded better as did the Ultra, in this room. For the $$$$, both the Plus/2 12.3 and VTF-3 HO are REALLY impressive. Mucho, Absolutely, for the few $$$$, the upgrade is well worth it. Should you sell your current sub and grab the HO, or just upgrade the current ? That is a very close call. __________________ Owner of Tweak City Audio link to subwoofer summary

10-17-06, 10:12 AM	#30 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
dlipter Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 155	Where is the VTF-3 HO on the HSU site? dlipter Never mind..........http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hsu+vs+rythmik Last edited by dlipter; 10-17-06 at 10:36 AM..