The PS3 will not upscale SD DVDs, etc

[Amiable-Akuma]

In a recent interview (I don't have a specific link, have just been reading this all over other message boards), - CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment, Kaz Hirai, adamantly confirmed that the PS3 would not upscale SD DVDs at all. I say "adamantly" because interviewers have said that he was "very, very clear" on this point.

He is also quoted as saying that old PS1 and PS2 games will "run in their original form". It hasn't yet been cleared up as to what exactly he meant by this but most have taken this to mean that the system will not upscale, anti-alias or do much else to PS1 or PS2 games either.

The upscaling of both was largely expected by everyone as far as I've read.

The Xbox 360, on the other hand, I know upscales SD DVDs already through it's standard drive and the VGA port. It upscales rather well too. Not sure if it can also upscale through component or if the HD DVD add on will allow it to be done through component or whatever but maybe someone can help clear that part up.

Alright, that is all. Sorry, I don't have a specific link to a news-source - too lazy to dig one up but the story is probably speading now so you may be able to find one yourself.

[gooki]

Interesting news. I was very disappointed when the PS2 was released and it played back PS1 games in theit "origional form". Especially when you compared it with Bleemcast on the PS3 which did a much better job with less "powerfull" hardware.

The no upscalling of SD DVD over HDMI is a bit of a disappointment, but presuming your TV has a decent internal scaller, it shouldn't make much difference. Also, any news if the PS3 will even output SD DVD as progressive frames?

[shanewalker]

The info is all over sites like IGN...Sony threw a big pre-launch PS3 press event in San Francisco yesterday. There are detailed run-downs on the various functions of the PS3--a lot of it was very tasty, the lack of DVD upscaling was a bit of a letdown, though.

[RobertR1]

Shane,

Come on, it's more than just a bit of a let down. Sony had been touting an all in one media hub, championed BR playback yet SD DVD's which encompass the mass market and consumer collection is pretty much disregarded. SD DVD's on a good upscaler are a big difference to just running them at 480, we all know that. I for one, find this a major letdown. The only reason I can see them doing this is to make the standalone players more appealing and clearly, they will be now.

[shanewalker]

The wording in the reports seemed to suggest other features were in-line for future upgrading/addition...DVD and PS2/1 game upscaling/enhancement are suggested to be no different. You could see upscaling in future system updates. They may have simply prioritized the Blu-ray playback for now. This system is going to go through a LOT of system updates...i.e., like the PSP, it's built with the understanding of regular online updating.

As for big vs. small letdown, I would say that is sort of a personal matter. I have all my DVD needs taken care of, as well as an outboard scaler. I'm just keen on the games, the blu-ray player and the (LocationFree-style) PSP media streaming/interoperability...which all look to be coming along swimmingly.

[Mr. Hanky]

I'm all for seeing dvd upscaling (so this is dissapointing to hear), but I can't ignore that this is going to be one of those "conflict of interest" things that Sony is just not going to do right with. Being a BR player, they will want every thing in their favor to distinguish the hd video look from dvd video look (though it seems, they shouldn't need to do this). So they have no interest in making dvd playback look any better than stock (let alone doing any fancy upscaling) and every interest in making it come out that BR looks far better. This is quite a bit of irony considering the computational resources in a PS3 that could be brought to bear for some really fancy upscaling in software. They could do stuff that just wouldn't be practical on even their own very best hdtv line. Maybe they could have even done that frame rate scaling trick as an optional software mode? The possibilities could have been staggering. It's too bad they are in a position, such that they do not capitalize on it.

[shanewalker]

Those are very, very interesting points. You may be onto something there. I, too, can't see any reason other than choice/priorities on Sony's part for this feature not being included. It is still possible that they just had to put a pecking order on development/programming resources going into launch and we'll see it yet...but who knows.

[Mr. Hanky]

Perhaps, there is a grain of hope if this gets/can be done via some opensource avenue.

[rlsmith]

Upscaling (like the 1080i/p issue) is subject to whether the player or your display have the better scaler.

I always try both, the results often surprise you.

If a DVD player puts out a good 480i/p signal, very often the display will do the rest very effectively.

[Mark0]

"This is great news for Blu-ray"

[Mr. Hanky]

Very true, rlsmith! It's just like the laserdisc player days where it could go either way as to whether you configure player or display to do the chroma separation for the best picture.

It's just difficult to ignore that Sony is passing on a huge diamond in the rough by passing on a software implementation that uses Cell in the PS3.

[Technicolor]

That's exactly the type of pushy policy Blu-ray has towards the consumer. BUY DISCS! BUY DISCS!!!

Also, this is an example of the un-friendly attitude Blu-ray has towards standard DVD. THROW THEM AWAY AND BUY BR!!! THROW THEM AWAY AND BUY BR!!!!!

The upscaling is a nice gesture that show the consumer that he/she can keep their DVD collections and watch them in a near-HD image. It costs nothing and it does wonders for the consumer with lots of films. By NOT upscaling standard DVDs, Sony is letting us see the respect it has for the consumer.

I know the display can also do it. But for me this is a matter of principle. Frankly they're not thinking that the consumer will buy the PS3 ($500) and a stand alone player ($1000)...

I think this is sad.

[Mr. Hanky]

At the same time, it would be foolish business sense for Sony to put this feature any where but dead last on the "to do" list. It's already been cited that the display is going to do the exact same thing, so it's a moot point.

[Forceflow]

Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky

At the same time, it would be foolish business sense for Sony to put this feature any where but dead last on the "to do" list. It's already been cited that the display is going to do the exact same thing, so it's a moot point.

It is foolish not to include a feature that consumers will rely upon to make their earlier purchases even more worthwhile.

Displays do have scalers, but they are no where near as nice as upscaling DVD players. Its not "going to do the exact same thing" just like my basketball skills are no comparable to Jordan, or even a run-of-the-mill NBA player. Sony really dropped the ball on a unit that for all intents and purposes could do much more. Makes me even more hesistant to assume its a great BD players. BD playback is probably also "low on the to-do list" because it is a gaming machine, first and foremost.

[ay221]

Sony will definitely make the PS3 a great BD player, otherwise a half a million people will be turned off by it and will be bad times for blu-ray.

For upscale me personally I could care less, I have a good dvd player for that but would rather watch high-def, afterall that is what this forum is all about.

Also I think the most gripes posted on this thread are by hd-dvd supporters.

[Kosty]

This is something that the current HD DVD players do very very well. Amazingly well in fact. Most HD DVD owners have been very surprised on how well their current DVDs look.

If this is true, I hope it is not, then Sony is deliberately not using the computational resources available in the PS3 to improve the playback of DVDs, just so Blu-ray discs will look better in comparison. They would be in fact limiting the video output of DVD's just to sell more Blu-ray discs. They would be hurting the consumer by limiting DVD quality to an non-upconverted quality just to sell more discs. I understand the conflict of interest here, but OMFG.

They would give a market advantage to the Xbox 360 add on, and the second gen HD DVD players which do upconvert SD DVDs.

I can recommend buying a HD DVD player or a Xbox 360 add on drive now because of their superb upconversion of standard DVDs. I was assuming I could do this for the PS3 as well. If they do not upconvert DVDs, then that would be horrible situation. It eliminates one advantage of buying the new player, to make your existing collection look better.

The PS3 would be the only sub $500 Blu-ray player for most if not all of 2007. I don't know if Sony would be so stupid as to give away to HD DVD the advantage of upconverting your current DVD library to near HD. They couldn't be that stupid , could they?

[ay221]

Just as stupid as the 360 addon that doesn't allow for high def audio?

[Mr. Hanky]

Exactly, the upconversion feature is a moot point, since few people are buying a console by how well it upconverts dvds. It's a side benefit that matters little whether it is there or not. BR playback is the greater priority (compared to dvd playback), so that will naturally have an impact on what features do and do not appear, as a matter of conflict of interest. In an ideal world, everything would be fuzzy and peachy, but we don't live in an ideal world.

On the brighter side of features in vs. features out, hdmi is in, so that's a good thing (assuming you had to choose between hdmi and dvd upconvert as options).

[Kosty]

It would be stupider as the 306 addon does at least improve audio to the maximum of the SPIDF audio connection. And it doesn't limit it as a marketing decision, but a technical one as the 360 doesn't have 5.1 jacks or HDMI.

This decision if true, and I hope that it is not, would be stupid in that it would be intended to lessen a benefit to consumers just to increase Blu-ray discs sales. Or because they thought that upconversion of DVDs would not be seen as a consumer benefit and refused to develop it.

[4K display]

Wow, I thought gamers bought videogame systems to play games, or so I've heard around here. And now the PS3 with it's "limited" dvd video playback is hurting consumers and puts us in a horrible situation. Frickin Comical...

[Kosty]

Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky

Exactly, the upconversion feature is a moot point, since few people are buying a console by how well it upconverts dvds. It's a side benefit that matters little whether it is there or not.

It may be a moot point to gamers, but not to people buying into a next generation HD format.

If you arguing that the PS3 will be used as a Blu-ray player, then its not a moot point.

I know many people who were on the fence about buying a HD DVD player but justified the price because of the SD upconversion. That includes me.

I however did not expect that it would be as good as it is.

The PS3 will be the entry level Blu-ray player for most of next year. If it doesn't compare to teh upconverting qualities of the HD DVD players or the 360 addon, then that is a marketing disadvantage. It already will be in short supply and more expensive.

I really just hope this isn't true.

[Mr. Hanky]

Originally Posted by Kosty

Or because they thought that upconversion of DVDs would not be seen as a consumer benefit and refused to develop it.

It's a moot point, since alternatives exist to enjoy the very same feature. True, it could be done better, but that could be said of any solution in a larger picture- there's always a "bigger fish". The thing that will matter most to the typical consumer is if it can be done vs. not at all. In this case, it can, and that is by what is in the display or if they happen to be into external scalers.

If you are really into dvd upconversion prowess, then you surely aren't shopping for an hd player, altogether. You are shopping for a dedicated upconverting dvd player. This is not rocket science.

[Kosty]

Originally Posted by 4K display

Wow, I thought gamers bought videogame systems to play games, or so I've heard around here. And now the PS3 with it's "limited" dvd video playback is hurting consumers and puts us in a horrible situation. Frickin Comical...

I've always said that the PS3 will be the most cost effective and reasonable way to get into Blu-ray if you are a videophile.

But if it doesn't upconvert, that changes the equation.

If Sony is would do this just to sell more Blu-ray discs, would you approve of that even though your video enjoyment of regular DVDs would be artificially handicaped?

Just so Sony could make more money.

[Kosty]

You would approve if Sony intentionally limited the playback of regular DVDs to only SD quality and did not upconvert them, if the sole reason was to sell more Blu-ray discs and make Blu-ray picture quality look better by comparison?

[ay221]

One just has to buy the HD-DVD by Toshiba the new one coming out, as well as PS3, then you have everything, upcovert on the Toshiba and true-hd audio on both via an hdmi receiver. And movie selections from both.

[Mr. Hanky]

Kosty,

It's a secondary feature. I don't care that much either way. That's the point that seems to be missed here.

It's silly to presume that someone is going to buy a PS3 and make it the only dvd playback device in the entire household. If they are really dependent on upconversion that badly, they will have other solutions, on hand. Ultimately, it will not have mattered if Sony included the feature or not on the console. It's a nice thing to have, but if it is missing, only the pickiest people are going to notice it missing. Let's face it, those kind of people are going to find something to complain about regardless, so there is no placating them.

[tormond]

Originally Posted by ay221

Sony will definitely make the PS3 a great BD player, otherwise a half a million people will be turned off by it and will be bad times for blu-ray.

For upscale me personally I could care less, I have a good dvd player for that but would rather watch high-def, afterall that is what this forum is all about.

Also I think the most gripes posted on this thread are by hd-dvd supporters.

Umm have you seen most of the Sony encodes? If they really cared about "turning off customers" then those wouldn't exist. Upconversion is the main factor that got me to buy an HD-A1.

[Kosty]

Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky

Kosty,

It's a secondary feature. I don't care that much either way. That's the point that seems to be missed here.

It's silly to presume that someone is going to buy a PS3 and make it the only dvd playback device in the entire household. If they are really dependent on upconversion that badly, they will have other solutions, on hand. Ultimately, it will not have mattered if Sony included the feature or not on the console. It's a nice thing to have, but if it is missing, only the pickiest people are going to notice it missing. Let's face it, those kind of people are going to find something to complain about regardless, so there is no placating them.

Yes but many people are considering to have the PS3 as their entry level Blu-ray player in their living room, with their best display.

If you aer choosing to buy a PS3 or a entry level HD DVD player, then a theoritical superior upconversion capablity of one or the other could be a factor in your decision.

Or if you are not even considering HD DVD, and have heard about this fancy new Blu-ray stuff from the friendly big box retailer. You freaked at the $999 or $1299 or $1499 price tag of the Blu-ray players, but you heard the PS3 was coming out.

Its expensive too, but one way to justify it would be to say it makes your existing DVDs look better. If you can't say that about the PS3, then less people will buy it as a stand alone next generation player, because the Blu-ray released title catalog is still small.

No matter how you consider it, this lack of upconversion, if it is true, would be bad for consumers and a negative drag on Blu-ray because it would make the PS3 less attractive as a standalone player.

[4K display]

PS3 owners with HDTV's are going to have their DVD playback upconverted anyway, right?

PS3 owners with SDTV's won't see/need/get any dvd enhancement regardless.

[wreckshop]

upscaling a dvd is trivial to do on a PS3. I'm guessing sony doesn't enable it because they want consumers to see without a doubt the difference between BD and dvd.