Playstation 3 as an SACD Player

mscalisi · 11-15-06, 07:32 PM

Anybody have an opinion on using a PS3 as a SACD player? My understanding is that it will only have analog stereo outputs. Does this mean that you won't be able to use it as a multi-channel SACD player?

happykev · 11-15-06, 08:01 PM

it will be able to play Multi channel audio through the HDMI output.

Kev

SolidSnake526 · 11-15-06, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happykev

it will be able to play Multi channel audio through the HDMI output.

Kev

What about optical? Or is there no Optical out? (haven't followed the PS3 too much)

Also...not to sound like an idiot, but which format had Pink Floyd, again? SACD or DVD-A?

kevin j · 11-15-06, 08:34 PM

locomo · 11-15-06, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin j

Sacd

But the DVD-A is "supposedly" better.

SolidSnake526 · 11-15-06, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by locomo

But the DVD-A is "supposedly" better.

Ehh, as long as it's better than stereo CD's, I'm happy. Point: Pink Floyd in HiFi

This is another excuse to keep a PS3 (first one: Blu-Ray. Reason for wanting it: MGS4)

happykev · 11-16-06, 02:31 AM

I don't think there is an optical out on the PS3.

sivadselim · 11-16-06, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happykev

I don't think there is an optical out on the PS3.

And whether there is or not, you can't send SACD (or DVD-A, for that matter) through it.

Nachosgrande · 11-16-06, 11:23 AM

HDMI or 5.1 Analog for SACD/DV-A

mscalisi · 11-16-06, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nachosgrande

HDMI or 5.1 Analog for SACD/DV-A

That's what I thought. So, I guess it's stereo only until I buy a reciever with HDMI 1.3 and an SACD decoder. Cheaper just to buy a dedicated SACD player.

I'm guessing it will encode DSD to PCM over the optical output (Yes it does have one).

happykev · 11-16-06, 12:37 PM

no, it's not Stereo only. The HDMI output should feed all 5.1 channels on SACD's.

Kevin

mscalisi · 11-16-06, 01:08 PM

Sure, if you have a reciever which will decode DSD from an HDMI port.
So I'm assuming that I'm stuck with stereo only from the analog outs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by happykev

no, it's not Stereo only. The HDMI output should feed all 5.1 channels on SACD's.

Kevin

happykev · 11-16-06, 01:14 PM

I see what you're saying. I don't even know if there are normal l/r RCA outs on the PS3. It's a weird "Multi a/v" interface. I haven't seen a close up of it yet.

Kev

mscalisi · 11-16-06, 02:11 PM

Looks like the "multi a/v" interface" breaks out into stereo RCA and composite video.

http://boardsus.playstation.com/play...read.id=715674

Quote:

Originally Posted by happykev

I see what you're saying. I don't even know if there are
normal l/r RCA outs on the PS3. It's a weird "Multi a/v" interface. I haven't seen a close up of it yet.

Kev

WriteSimple · 11-17-06, 07:33 AM

Using the MultiOut on the PS3, you can get two-channel stereo off your SACD.

Using HDMI, you have the option of listening to either two-channel or multichannel off your SACD. Out of that option, you can choose to let the PS3 perform the DSD-to-LPCM conversion or let it pass through the DSD bistream to a DSD-decoding receiver/pre-amp.

It doesn't have to be HDMI 1.3. HDMI 1.2 is enough to pass the DSD bitstream and decoded LPCM. Except for not having DVD-Audio capability, the PS3 is quite versatile. If you're in the market for a new receiver, look into the Panasonic SA-XR57; this 7.1 channel, HDMI receiver's starting price is at US$280 online.

fuad

Sonic icons · 11-18-06, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WriteSimple

Using HDMI, you have the option of listening to either two-channel or multichannel off your SACD. Out of that option, you can choose to let the PS3 perform the DSD-to-LPCM conversion or let it pass through the DSD bistream to a DSD-decoding receiver/pre-amp.

It doesn't have to be HDMI 1.3. HDMI 1.2 is enough to pass the DSD bitstream and decoded LPCM.
fuad

To clarify, "let (the Playstation 3) pass through the DSD bistream to a DSD-decoding receiver/pre-amp" requires a receiver with a HDMI 1.2 input, such as a few recent Marantz, Pioneer, and Yamaha models.

(Since the Playstation 3 is the first HDMI 1.3 player, and there have been no HDMI 1.2 players, the first person to do this with the Playstation 3 will be the first to send a DSD bitstream over an HDMI connection. If life were fair, Sony would give out some kind of prize for this, but they haven't promised any

)

"you can choose to let the PS3 perform the DSD-to-LPCM conversion" requires a receiver with a HDMI 1.1 input. At this date, there are many more (and less expensive) HDMI 1.1 than HDMI 1.2 receivers.

T7T · 12-08-06, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by locomo

But the DVD-A is "supposedly" better.

Not quite. DVD-Audio may be better than regular audio CD (thanks to the higher sampling frequency and more bits per sample) but it inherited all the disadvantages of PCM encoding/decoding, while SACD uses the far more transparent DSD (Direct Stream Digital).

What's more, there are about 100 DVD-Audio titles available compared to over 4,000 on SACD.

Anyway, what's still not clear to me (following conflicting information above): Is the SACD multi-channel output on PS3's HDMI port always PCM (downconverted from DSD) or is there an option in the setup menu for configuring the machine to stream pure DSD?

I'm hoping the DSD-to-PCM conversion is for feeding the optical output only (and an *option* for feeding receivers with HDMI input that can handle PCM but not DSD) or for feeding an internal D/A converter at worst.

More discussion in thread 9089325 (sorry, it wouldn't let me post the URL)

KMO · 12-08-06, 07:26 AM

As far as I'm aware it currently only outputs PCM on HDMI. People with DSD-capable receivers have said it still sends PCM, and there's no option. Whether this could be changed in future firmware depends on whether it has a DSD-capable HDMI transmitter with its DSD inputs connected.

I don't think you'll find it outputting SACD on its optical; no box has ever done that - it's against the rules to send enencrypted digital output from SACD, even at low resolution.

(And leaving aside the DVD-Audio/SACD quality arguments, which are pointless, there are probably about 750 DVD-Audios around. And the vast majority of SACDs are classical, meaning its numerical advantage largely vanishes if you're not a classical person. Plus there are DVD-Audio car players - no SACD car players, for some reason.)

KMO · 12-08-06, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mscalisi

Sure, if you have a reciever which will decode DSD from an HDMI port.
So I'm assuming that I'm stuck with stereo only from the analog outs.

No, because the PS3 doesn't output DSD, it outputs PCM - currently at 88.2kHz, and 176.4kHz in a future update. You just need HDMI 1.1. What's annoying is that it doesn't even have a DSD option.

oblio98 · 12-08-06, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T7T

...............
What's more, there are about 100 DVD-Audio titles available compared to over 4,000 on SACD.
.......................

Odys · 12-08-06, 10:46 AM

[quote=T7T]Not quite. DVD-Audio may be better than regular audio CD (thanks to the higher sampling frequency and more bits per sample) but it inherited all the disadvantages of PCM encoding/decoding, while SACD uses the far more transparent DSD (Direct Stream Digital).

What's more, there are about 100 DVD-Audio titles available compared to over 4,000 on SACD.

QUOTE]

First of all, locomo was obviously referring to Dark Side of the Moon specifically when he said "the DVD-A is 'supposedly' better," not the format in general. He was referring to the "unofficial" version of DSOTM floating around on the Internet in DVD-A format.

Secondly, as others have stated, there are way more than 100 DVD-A's out there. I personally own more than 100 and there are plenty out there that I don't own.

Lastly, as an owner of both SACD and DVD-A formats, I love them both and hope the releases continue on both sides. As someone else said, arguing about which one is better is pointless.

JBlacklow · 12-08-06, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMO

No, because the PS3 doesn't output DSD, it outputs PCM - currently at 88.2kHz, and 176.4kHz in a future update. You just need HDMI 1.1. What's annoying is that it doesn't even have a DSD option.

I can confirm that the PS3 outputs SACDs at 176khz PCM with Firmware v1.30. I think my receiver (Sony STRDG1000) is HDMI 1.2, so when I get home, I'll see if I can set HDMI output to bitstream, and let you know what happens. For more on the PS3 and this receiver, see my effusive post from the Future-Proof HDMI Receivers thread.

T7T · 12-08-06, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odys

First of all, locomo was obviously referring to Dark Side of the Moon specifically when he said "the DVD-A is 'supposedly' better," not the format in general. He was referring to the "unofficial" version of DSOTM floating around on the Internet in DVD-A format.

DSotM was issued on DVD-A? I wasn't aware. How did they do that? Is it a conversion of the SACD? I suppose not, because then the resulting disc could not be better, obviously. Is it a conversion of some older quad mix perhaps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMO

there are probably about 750 DVD-Audios around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odys

Secondly, as others have stated, there are way more than 100 DVD-A's out there. I personally own more than 100 and there are plenty out there that I don't own.

Lastly, as an owner of both SACD and DVD-A formats, I love them both and hope the releases continue on both sides. As someone else said, arguing about which one is better is pointless.

Wow. Is there a comprehensive overview somewhere on the web, like there is for SACD?

I'll stop the SACD vs DVD-A argument here. I misinterpreted the above comment and although given a choice I'd prefer SACD I'm pragmatic enough to buy DVD-A when SACD is not available, like for instance with the Beatles' Love album.

jeffrey r · 12-09-06, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T7T

DSotM was issued on DVD-A? I wasn't aware. How did they do that? Is it a conversion of the SACD? I suppose not, because then the resulting disc could not be better, obviously. Is it a conversion of some older quad mix perhaps?

Look for the big thread further down the page about the DVD-A of DSOTM. Get a hold of it if you can. It's outstanding.

Brajesh · 12-21-06, 10:49 AM

I've listened to SACDs of Pink Floyd's DSOTM, Depeche Mode's "Violator", Dire Straits' "Brothers in Arms" (latter two are UK imports) on my PS3. Sound quality was just as good as my Pioneer SACD player, maybe even a tad better actually.

Mistermono · 04-09-07, 04:30 PM

Can anyone recommend some budget friendly SACD receiver/speaker setups that are compatible with the PS3 (and available in Canada)?

allsop4now · 04-09-07, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T7T

I'll stop the SACD vs DVD-A argument here. I misinterpreted the above comment and although given a choice I'd prefer SACD I'm pragmatic enough to buy DVD-A when SACD is not available, like for instance with the Beatles' Love album.

If you like classical music or jazz you will buy many more SACD than DVD-A since most new such releases are on SACD.

Core_2 · 04-10-07, 07:12 PM

I for one can't hear the difference between the SACD layer via analog Vs. the regular cd layer on the SACD with my PS3. It would be nice if future firmware updates allowed multi-channel SACD over optical....I love my current Onkyo TX-SR700 receiver And I don't want to drop cash for a new one just so I can hear 5.1 with SACD.

locomo · 04-10-07, 08:56 PM

Optical (and digital coax for that matter) doesn't have enough bandwith for 5.1 SACD or DVD-A.

Core_2 · 04-10-07, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by locomo

Optical (and digital coax for that matter) doesn't have enough bandwith for 5.1 SACD or DVD-A.

I thought it was because of DRM...not bandwith?...... what is the max bandwith of optical?

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mscalisi Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 15	Playstation 3 as an SACD Player Anybody have an opinion on using a PS3 as a SACD player? My understanding is that it will only have analog stereo outputs. Does this mean that you won't be able to use it as a multi-channel SACD player?

11-15-06, 08:34 PM	#4 \| Link
kevin j Mr HDTV Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Evanston IL Posts: 2,533	Sacd __________________ If a movie or concert video isn't on blu ray it doesn't exist.

11-17-06, 07:33 AM	#15 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
WriteSimple AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: KL, Malaysia. Posts: 3,206	Using the MultiOut on the PS3, you can get two-channel stereo off your SACD. Using HDMI, you have the option of listening to either two-channel or multichannel off your SACD. Out of that option, you can choose to let the PS3 perform the DSD-to-LPCM conversion or let it pass through the DSD bistream to a DSD-decoding receiver/pre-amp. It doesn't have to be HDMI 1.3. HDMI 1.2 is enough to pass the DSD bitstream and decoded LPCM. Except for not having DVD-Audio capability, the PS3 is quite versatile. If you're in the market for a new receiver, look into the Panasonic SA-XR57; this 7.1 channel, HDMI receiver's starting price is at US$280 online. fuad

12-21-06, 10:49 AM	#25 \| Link
Brajesh AVS Special Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Georgia on my Mind Posts: 3,250 Classified Rating: 100% (35)	I've listened to SACDs of Pink Floyd's DSOTM, Depeche Mode's "Violator", Dire Straits' "Brothers in Arms" (latter two are UK imports) on my PS3. Sound quality was just as good as my Pioneer SACD player, maybe even a tad better actually. __________________ HDMedia Fan

04-10-07, 07:12 PM	#28 \| Link
Core_2 Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 22	I for one can't hear the difference between the SACD layer via analog Vs. the regular cd layer on the SACD with my PS3. It would be nice if future firmware updates allowed multi-channel SACD over optical....I love my current Onkyo TX-SR700 receiver And I don't want to drop cash for a new one just so I can hear 5.1 with SACD. __________________ Join the AVSFORUM folding@home team... #55280

11-15-06, 08:01 PM	#2 \| Link
happykev Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 51	it will be able to play Multi channel audio through the HDMI output. Kev

11-16-06, 02:31 AM	#7 \| Link
happykev Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 51	I don't think there is an optical out on the PS3.

11-16-06, 11:23 AM	#9 \| Link
Nachosgrande Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York Posts: 447	HDMI or 5.1 Analog for SACD/DV-A

11-16-06, 12:37 PM	#11 \| Link
happykev Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 51	no, it's not Stereo only. The HDMI output should feed all 5.1 channels on SACD's. Kevin

11-16-06, 01:14 PM	#13 \| Link
happykev Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 51	I see what you're saying. I don't even know if there are normal l/r RCA outs on the PS3. It's a weird "Multi a/v" interface. I haven't seen a close up of it yet. Kev

12-08-06, 07:26 AM	#18 \| Link
KMO Advanced Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: England Posts: 934	As far as I'm aware it currently only outputs PCM on HDMI. People with DSD-capable receivers have said it still sends PCM, and there's no option. Whether this could be changed in future firmware depends on whether it has a DSD-capable HDMI transmitter with its DSD inputs connected. I don't think you'll find it outputting SACD on its optical; no box has ever done that - it's against the rules to send enencrypted digital output from SACD, even at low resolution. (And leaving aside the DVD-Audio/SACD quality arguments, which are pointless, there are probably about 750 DVD-Audios around. And the vast majority of SACDs are classical, meaning its numerical advantage largely vanishes if you're not a classical person. Plus there are DVD-Audio car players - no SACD car players, for some reason.)

12-08-06, 10:46 AM	#21 \| Link
Odys Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 344	[quote=T7T]Not quite. DVD-Audio may be better than regular audio CD (thanks to the higher sampling frequency and more bits per sample) but it inherited all the disadvantages of PCM encoding/decoding, while SACD uses the far more transparent DSD (Direct Stream Digital). What's more, there are about 100 DVD-Audio titles available compared to over 4,000 on SACD. QUOTE] First of all, locomo was obviously referring to Dark Side of the Moon specifically when he said "the DVD-A is 'supposedly' better," not the format in general. He was referring to the "unofficial" version of DSOTM floating around on the Internet in DVD-A format. Secondly, as others have stated, there are way more than 100 DVD-A's out there. I personally own more than 100 and there are plenty out there that I don't own. Lastly, as an owner of both SACD and DVD-A formats, I love them both and hope the releases continue on both sides. As someone else said, arguing about which one is better is pointless.

04-09-07, 04:30 PM	#26 \| Link
Mistermono New Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 9	Can anyone recommend some budget friendly SACD receiver/speaker setups that are compatible with the PS3 (and available in Canada)?

04-10-07, 08:56 PM	#29 \| Link
locomo AVS Special Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Memphis Posts: 1,146	Optical (and digital coax for that matter) doesn't have enough bandwith for 5.1 SACD or DVD-A.