JL Audio Fathom 12" Sub

kgb540 · 12-13-06, 02:11 AM

I'd like to hear some members chime in on the F112, it seems to be lost under the press of the 113. I purchased both JL's and side by side I can hardly tell any difference. maybe the F113 digs a bit deeper and plays a little louder too, but so far I am as impressed with the F112 as the 113........maybe even a little more so. what wonderful products! My DD-15 is soon to be on the second hand market (no offense Velo, the DD IS a world-class performer) but these JL's have ushered in a new era. One thing about these subs that I thought might be exaggerated is their immense weight. HOLY SHITE!! No exaggeration at all! These things are incredible!

TJEli · 12-13-06, 09:24 AM

I would like to hear a direct comparison from you (if you dont mind) of the F112 vs the DD-15. Performance and sound between the Fathoms and the DDs has been very similar with people leaning both directions. It is a great testimate to the Fathoms that they can play on a DDs level.

I have not heard an F112... but I would like to.

-Eli

MKtheater · 12-13-06, 09:30 AM

TJEli ,

Can you give me your honest opinion about the jl audio vs 2 PB12/plus/2s. Is the bass that much better from the jl audio? I use the SVS strictly for movies. Movies only. Thanks

TJEli · 12-13-06, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKtheater

TJEli ,

Can you give me your honest opinion about the jl audio vs 2 PB12/plus/2s. Is the bass that much better from the jl audio? I use the SVS strictly for movies. Movies only. Thanks

The best way to answer that is "it depends". I PMed you with a more in depth answer.

-Eli

Richard Mayer · 12-13-06, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJEli

The best way to answer that is "it depends". I PMed you with a more in depth answer.

-Eli

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. Care to PM me too?

rockemsockem · 12-13-06, 11:17 AM

Me too?

BrutalBodyShots · 12-13-06, 11:22 AM

That must be some serious 12" driver if it can potentially outdo FOUR 12" PB SVS drivers.

bgillyjcu · 12-13-06, 11:25 AM

Can you just post what you wrote in here.

I would love to see some info on a SINGLE sub that can reach what 2 PB12/plus/2s.

Now that would be something amazing.

craigsub · 12-13-06, 11:27 AM

Gents, The single Fathom 113 will not play louder than a pair of SVS PB12-Plus/2's. I don't recall anyone ever making that claim.

However, there is more to a subwoofer's performance than SPL.

ransac · 12-13-06, 11:39 AM

You could compare the two in terms of real estate cost. In California, homes are going for about $200 per sq/ft. So the F113 would have a $300 land cost and two +/2 would have about $1200 in land cost.

bgillyjcu · 12-13-06, 11:47 AM

The words better, louder

They are so general when talking about a sub and how it performs.

So we have to comepare apples to apples.

How does a SINGLE F112 or F113 match up with a comparable SVS sub. What is the comparable SVS sub that matches up with it in terms of Sound Quality, Bass Output, SPL...

F112 vs which SVS

F113 vs which SVS

That is what I am interested in.

ransac · 12-13-06, 11:57 AM

I listened to a DD18 and an F113 this weekend at another forum members home. I will be writing up my impressions sometime this week. It will be just a DD18 comparo to the F113 and I won't add my +/2 into the mix.

I don't have Craigs experience, but the one thing I did notice was how different the voice of the sealed subs were compared to a ported sub. The sealed subs were more musical (I now know what people mean by that) and ported subs are more ... throaty.

Just keep an eye out for my write up. I will try to explain in more detail.

jhan1000 · 12-13-06, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgillyjcu

The words better, louder

They are so general when talking about a sub and how it performs.

So we have to comepare apples to apples.

How does a SINGLE F112 or F113 match up with a comparable SVS sub. What is the comparable SVS sub that matches up with it in terms of Sound Quality, Bass .

But can't the same argument of vague be made for the term sound quality? Sound quality will mean different things to different people in different environments.

Just a thought.

bgillyjcu · 12-13-06, 12:05 PM

What I found
F112 12 inch woofer, 1500Watts (short-term)
F113 13 inch woofer, 2500Watts (short-term)
I find no reference after quickly scanning the website and the PDF manual for any Frequency Reponse charts.

-Fathom f112: $2200
-Fathom f113: $2800

So for the money

We have to compare these subs to
SVS PB-12 ULTRA for $1200
SVS PB-12 ULTRA/2 for $2000

So how do these babies match up?

bgillyjcu · 12-13-06, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhan1000

But can't the same argument of vague be made for the term sound quality? Sound quality will mean different things to different people in different environments.

Just a thought.

Very true! I always like when people start thinking about the vocabulary we use. Thanks

TJEli · 12-13-06, 12:28 PM

First of all, my experience with the JL is with the F113 NOT the F112.

Since others asked, here is the PM I sent...

"I am a HUGE SVS supporter and will be for life. What I can tell you is this.... the F113 sounds better but does not have as much headroom as dual +/2s. The F113 extends lower and sounds better doing it. If I am watching a movie at -10 or lower, then yes I can say the single F113 sounds better. Any louder than that in my room and a second F113 would be needed to match the output of the dual +/2s.

Now, take this all for what it is worth. The Plus/2 is a VERY VERY good subwoofer...especially for the money. It is the clear "price vs. performance" winner in this battle. The performance difference between the 2 is a lot smaller than the price difference IMHO.

A single F113 can outgun a single plus/2 on all accounts....but it should be able to....its almost 3 times the cost.

I hope that helps. Let me know if I can be of more help."

-Eli

johnlarsen · 12-13-06, 12:39 PM

<<<<<<A single F113 can outgun a single plus/2 on all accounts....but it should be able to....its almost 3 times the cost.>>>>>>

it should be able to base on cost? dont make no sense. the darn thing is 3 times smaller and SEALED too!

fyi, price is no where close to 3 times cost when u compare street prices at dealer. maybe twice the cost. performance of f113 with size and cost factor in, it is the winner.

bgillyjcu · 12-13-06, 01:24 PM

I think for 2200-2800 I'd rather have 2 PB12-Plus/2 for $2400.

That would HAVE to totally KILL the JL in terms of Bass for the $$$$$$$

johnlarsen · 12-13-06, 01:27 PM

two of those would take up half the living room, har har. sound qualities would still be better from the one 113, so SQ for the $ would still go to FATHOM in that case

jhan1000 · 12-13-06, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgillyjcu

I think for 2200-2800 I'd rather have 2 PB12-Plus/2 for $2400.

That would HAVE to totally KILL the JL in terms of Bass for the $$$$$$$

I think it depends what characteristics are important to the user. Every subwoofer has its strengths and weakness, and that includes cost.

For you, size isn't a consideration, but for many like myself, size is an important consideration, especially if I want to stay married with my wife.

Flipping the argument around, would I could spend $700-800 more to have a single subwoofer, a smaller volume, and in a sealed design? For me, the answer is yes, but for others it won't be.

Different strokes for different folks. All these choices, in the end, are great for consumer.

ssabripo · 12-13-06, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlarsen

<<<<<<A single F113 can outgun a single plus/2 on all accounts....but it should be able to....its almost 3 times the cost.>>>>>>

it should be able to base on cost? dont make no sense. the darn thing is 3 times smaller and SEALED too!

fyi, price is no where close to 3 times cost when u compare street prices at dealer. maybe twice the cost. performance of f113 with size and cost factor in, it is the winner.

John....please dont start infesting this thread with your trolling..

Yes, We get it....we all get it...you hate XYZ company...no need to keep repeating yourself in every freaking thread!

smaller and "sealed" have jack to do with the qualifications of the sound quality of a sub. Some prefer sealed over ported, and viceversa....they are distinct. By the same token, there are plenty of ported subs that sound vastly better than sealed counterparts, and viceversa.

Eli gave his impressions of his experience with his subs in his room......if you dont like or agree with his statement, then buy the subs yourself, and start your own thread/review........there is absolutely nothing that "don't make no sense" about his statement

TheEAR · 12-13-06, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlarsen

<<<<<<A single F113 can outgun a single plus/2 on all accounts....but it should be able to....its almost 3 times the cost.>>>>>>

it should be able to base on cost? dont make no sense. the darn thing is 3 times smaller and SEALED too!

fyi, price is no where close to 3 times cost when u compare street prices at dealer. maybe twice the cost. performance of f113 with size and cost factor in, it is the winner.

Exactly

For its size the JL subs beat the stuffing out of the large SVS. To me price is a secondary concern,very secondary. ANd the JL subs are THE best performing compact subs made. Period

Velodyne's best compact subs do not match the JL SQ and output...and cost more!

rockemsockem · 12-13-06, 02:24 PM

Is the driver that is used in the fathoms unique to their home audio products? Or is it used in car audio applications as well.

I know it doesn't matter, just curious.

ransac · 12-13-06, 02:26 PM

bgilly, you are making the same mistake I have made. You are making quantitative comparisons because you can. Total SPL, amount of displacement, number of drivers, dollars per max db. These are easy to make comparisons. What people have been trying to pound into my head is that you, and only you, can make the qualitative comparisons. Does it sound better to you. If yes, is it worth spending the extra money to obtain it?

You have to realize, some people like boomy subs and would be very happy with an inexpensive sub. Some people have more refined taste, but not much cash and have to settle for budget subs. Some people, like me, are satisfied with a mid level sub even if they can discern a difference in the higher priced subs. Some people will spend the additional amount for the perceived improvement in sound reproduction, even if the improvement is slight and the added cost is great.

And don't fall for the vocabulary challenged posters that can only use terms like, 'X will blow away Y', or 'X will stomp all over Y'. They are just trying to goad you into an argument.

ssabripo · 12-13-06, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ransac

You have to realize, some people like boomy subs and would be very happy with an inexpensive sub. Some people have more refined taste, but not much cash and have to settle for budget subs. Some people, like me, are satisfied with a mid level sub even if they can discern a difference in the higher priced subs. Some people will spend the additional amount for the perceived improvement in sound reproduction, even if it the improvement is slight and the added cost is great.

excellent post Ransac....thank you!

glad to see there is some voice of logic behind the few in here with the pom poms in hand

rockemsockem · 12-13-06, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ransac

Some people have more refined taste, but not much cash and have to settle for budget subs.

I would definitely fall into this category. :-)

bgillyjcu · 12-13-06, 02:30 PM

NO POM POMs in my hand. I'd love to hear this JL Sub.

HELL, I'd buy one if it sounds as good as you are saying!

TJEli · 12-13-06, 02:33 PM

FWIW guys... size is not a concern for me and is not a factor in my decision making. As a matter of fact, the JL looks wimpy compared to what I am use to.

My comment about price was assuming that in a perfect situation, a higher MSRP gets you more R&D, higher end components, ect. so the higher cost "should" buy you more performance. (it was an analogy)

In an ouput contest, the dual +/2s will win... and sound really darn good doing it... providing a relative performance bargain.

In my room, the ouput of a single F113 during typical scenes seems to fall in between a single and dual +/2s.

My impressions have nothing to do with preference for sealed vs ported. I have heard well executed examples of both.

As was stated above, just MY impressions. YMMV.

-Eli

MKtheater · 12-13-06, 02:37 PM

Like I said to TJEli , I hit 117 db's in my room with my SVS tuned to 20 hz, and 121 spl in the 25 hz tune. I only use my radio shack spl to measure from my chair. I am not looking for more spl. I was curious on what better bass means. I obviously don't need to subs. I might just wait to see what people say about the new ultra and submersive before I try the JL audio. I have heard M&K MX-5000THX subs(dual) several times and I think the SVS sounds as good. The M&K's are sealed designs. My SVS has alot more power though and can make you dizzy after a demo where the M&K can not. I know the jl audio and submersive are supposed to give you the sealed sound and impact. I can get the jl audio for a little more than say a submersive or ultra/2. would it be worth it?

TJEli · 12-13-06, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheEAR

For its size the JL subs beat the stuffing out of the large SVS.

The JL is a very good subwoofer. However, in my opinion, it does not "beat the stuffing" out of a large SVS. (ala +/2, Ultra, Ultra/2, ect)

I have been trying VERY hard not to give performance misconceptions to people that have not had the priviledge of listening to high quality subwoofers from many manufacturers. If you take the statement above at face value, it sounds like the F113 blows big SVSs out of the water and that just isn't the case.

Is there a performance difference? Yes.

Is it a HUGE difference from other top performing subs? No.

-Eli

12-13-06, 02:11 AM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
kgb540 Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 187	JL Audio Fathom 12" Sub I'd like to hear some members chime in on the F112, it seems to be lost under the press of the 113. I purchased both JL's and side by side I can hardly tell any difference. maybe the F113 digs a bit deeper and plays a little louder too, but so far I am as impressed with the F112 as the 113........maybe even a little more so. what wonderful products! My DD-15 is soon to be on the second hand market (no offense Velo, the DD IS a world-class performer) but these JL's have ushered in a new era. One thing about these subs that I thought might be exaggerated is their immense weight. HOLY SHITE!! No exaggeration at all! These things are incredible!

12-13-06, 09:24 AM	#2 \| Link
TJEli My house hates me Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Iron Mountain, Michigan Posts: 1,119	I would like to hear a direct comparison from you (if you dont mind) of the F112 vs the DD-15. Performance and sound between the Fathoms and the DDs has been very similar with people leaning both directions. It is a great testimate to the Fathoms that they can play on a DDs level. I have not heard an F112... but I would like to. -Eli __________________ AV Nut

12-13-06, 11:17 AM	#6 \| Link
rockemsockem Advanced Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 975	Me too? __________________ Rockem's Home Theater

12-13-06, 11:25 AM	#8 \| Link
bgillyjcu AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cleveland Ohio Posts: 2,819	Can you just post what you wrote in here. I would love to see some info on a SINGLE sub that can reach what 2 PB12/plus/2s. Now that would be something amazing. __________________ UPDATED 11/01/2008 --New Pictures of my new dedicated home theater!!! MY NEW Dedicated HOME THEATER My OLD Living Room HT Pictures

12-13-06, 11:27 AM	#9 \| Link
craigsub I like this hobby AVS GOLD CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Erie, Pa. Posts: 10,659	Gents, The single Fathom 113 will not play louder than a pair of SVS PB12-Plus/2's. I don't recall anyone ever making that claim. However, there is more to a subwoofer's performance than SPL. __________________ Owner of Tweak City Audio link to subwoofer summary

12-13-06, 09:30 AM	#3 \| Link
MKtheater AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New Hartford, NY Posts: 4,355	TJEli , Can you give me your honest opinion about the jl audio vs 2 PB12/plus/2s. Is the bass that much better from the jl audio? I use the SVS strictly for movies. Movies only. Thanks

12-13-06, 11:22 AM	#7 \| Link
BrutalBodyShots Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 260	That must be some serious 12" driver if it can potentially outdo FOUR 12" PB SVS drivers.

12-13-06, 11:39 AM	#10 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
ransac Knows more than you? Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 3,531	You could compare the two in terms of real estate cost. In California, homes are going for about $200 per sq/ft. So the F113 would have a $300 land cost and two +/2 would have about $1200 in land cost. __________________ Randy

12-13-06, 11:47 AM	#11 \| Link
bgillyjcu AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cleveland Ohio Posts: 2,819	The words better, louder They are so general when talking about a sub and how it performs. So we have to comepare apples to apples. How does a SINGLE F112 or F113 match up with a comparable SVS sub. What is the comparable SVS sub that matches up with it in terms of Sound Quality, Bass Output, SPL... F112 vs which SVS F113 vs which SVS That is what I am interested in. __________________ UPDATED 11/01/2008 --New Pictures of my new dedicated home theater!!! MY NEW Dedicated HOME THEATER My OLD Living Room HT Pictures

12-13-06, 11:57 AM	#12 \| Link
ransac Knows more than you? Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 3,531	I listened to a DD18 and an F113 this weekend at another forum members home. I will be writing up my impressions sometime this week. It will be just a DD18 comparo to the F113 and I won't add my +/2 into the mix. I don't have Craigs experience, but the one thing I did notice was how different the voice of the sealed subs were compared to a ported sub. The sealed subs were more musical (I now know what people mean by that) and ported subs are more ... throaty. Just keep an eye out for my write up. I will try to explain in more detail. __________________ Randy Last edited by ransac; 12-13-06 at 12:05 PM..

12-13-06, 12:05 PM	#14 \| Link
bgillyjcu AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cleveland Ohio Posts: 2,819	What I found F112 12 inch woofer, 1500Watts (short-term) F113 13 inch woofer, 2500Watts (short-term) I find no reference after quickly scanning the website and the PDF manual for any Frequency Reponse charts. -Fathom f112: $2200 -Fathom f113: $2800 So for the money We have to compare these subs to SVS PB-12 ULTRA for $1200 SVS PB-12 ULTRA/2 for $2000 So how do these babies match up? __________________ UPDATED 11/01/2008 --New Pictures of my new dedicated home theater!!! MY NEW Dedicated HOME THEATER My OLD Living Room HT Pictures

12-13-06, 12:28 PM	#16 \| Link
TJEli My house hates me Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Iron Mountain, Michigan Posts: 1,119	First of all, my experience with the JL is with the F113 NOT the F112. Since others asked, here is the PM I sent... "I am a HUGE SVS supporter and will be for life. What I can tell you is this.... the F113 sounds better but does not have as much headroom as dual +/2s. The F113 extends lower and sounds better doing it. If I am watching a movie at -10 or lower, then yes I can say the single F113 sounds better. Any louder than that in my room and a second F113 would be needed to match the output of the dual +/2s. Now, take this all for what it is worth. The Plus/2 is a VERY VERY good subwoofer...especially for the money. It is the clear "price vs. performance" winner in this battle. The performance difference between the 2 is a lot smaller than the price difference IMHO. A single F113 can outgun a single plus/2 on all accounts....but it should be able to....its almost 3 times the cost. I hope that helps. Let me know if I can be of more help." -Eli __________________ AV Nut

12-13-06, 12:39 PM	#17 \| Link
johnlarsen Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 564	<<<<<<A single F113 can outgun a single plus/2 on all accounts....but it should be able to....its almost 3 times the cost.>>>>>> it should be able to base on cost? dont make no sense. the darn thing is 3 times smaller and SEALED too! fyi, price is no where close to 3 times cost when u compare street prices at dealer. maybe twice the cost. performance of f113 with size and cost factor in, it is the winner.

12-13-06, 01:24 PM	#18 \| Link
bgillyjcu AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cleveland Ohio Posts: 2,819	I think for 2200-2800 I'd rather have 2 PB12-Plus/2 for $2400. That would HAVE to totally KILL the JL in terms of Bass for the $$$$$$$ __________________ UPDATED 11/01/2008 --New Pictures of my new dedicated home theater!!! MY NEW Dedicated HOME THEATER My OLD Living Room HT Pictures

12-13-06, 01:27 PM	#19 \| Link
johnlarsen Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 564	two of those would take up half the living room, har har. sound qualities would still be better from the one 113, so SQ for the $ would still go to FATHOM in that case

12-13-06, 02:24 PM	#23 \| Link
rockemsockem Advanced Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 975	Is the driver that is used in the fathoms unique to their home audio products? Or is it used in car audio applications as well. I know it doesn't matter, just curious. __________________ Rockem's Home Theater

12-13-06, 02:26 PM	#24 \| Link
ransac Knows more than you? Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 3,531	bgilly, you are making the same mistake I have made. You are making quantitative comparisons because you can. Total SPL, amount of displacement, number of drivers, dollars per max db. These are easy to make comparisons. What people have been trying to pound into my head is that you, and only you, can make the qualitative comparisons. Does it sound better to you. If yes, is it worth spending the extra money to obtain it? You have to realize, some people like boomy subs and would be very happy with an inexpensive sub. Some people have more refined taste, but not much cash and have to settle for budget subs. Some people, like me, are satisfied with a mid level sub even if they can discern a difference in the higher priced subs. Some people will spend the additional amount for the perceived improvement in sound reproduction, even if the improvement is slight and the added cost is great. And don't fall for the vocabulary challenged posters that can only use terms like, 'X will blow away Y', or 'X will stomp all over Y'. They are just trying to goad you into an argument. __________________ Randy Last edited by ransac; 12-13-06 at 02:34 PM..

12-13-06, 02:30 PM	#27 \| Link
bgillyjcu AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cleveland Ohio Posts: 2,819	NO POM POMs in my hand. I'd love to hear this JL Sub. HELL, I'd buy one if it sounds as good as you are saying! __________________ UPDATED 11/01/2008 --New Pictures of my new dedicated home theater!!! MY NEW Dedicated HOME THEATER My OLD Living Room HT Pictures

12-13-06, 02:33 PM	#28 \| Link
TJEli My house hates me Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Iron Mountain, Michigan Posts: 1,119	FWIW guys... size is not a concern for me and is not a factor in my decision making. As a matter of fact, the JL looks wimpy compared to what I am use to. My comment about price was assuming that in a perfect situation, a higher MSRP gets you more R&D, higher end components, ect. so the higher cost "should" buy you more performance. (it was an analogy) In an ouput contest, the dual +/2s will win... and sound really darn good doing it... providing a relative performance bargain. In my room, the ouput of a single F113 during typical scenes seems to fall in between a single and dual +/2s. My impressions have nothing to do with preference for sealed vs ported. I have heard well executed examples of both. As was stated above, just MY impressions. YMMV. -Eli __________________ AV Nut

12-13-06, 02:37 PM	#29 \| Link
MKtheater AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New Hartford, NY Posts: 4,355	Like I said to TJEli , I hit 117 db's in my room with my SVS tuned to 20 hz, and 121 spl in the 25 hz tune. I only use my radio shack spl to measure from my chair. I am not looking for more spl. I was curious on what better bass means. I obviously don't need to subs. I might just wait to see what people say about the new ultra and submersive before I try the JL audio. I have heard M&K MX-5000THX subs(dual) several times and I think the SVS sounds as good. The M&K's are sealed designs. My SVS has alot more power though and can make you dizzy after a demo where the M&K can not. I know the jl audio and submersive are supposed to give you the sealed sound and impact. I can get the jl audio for a little more than say a submersive or ultra/2. would it be worth it?