SVS PB12-NSD or HSU VTF-Mk3

vetobe · 12-13-06, 06:48 PM

Thought I was ready to go with the SVS and then saw the new HSU come out.

Any suggestions? Any help would be appreciated. Used for 90% HT.

gotchaforce · 12-13-06, 06:52 PM

VTF3MK3 right??

would get the MK3 personally

the shipping is $90 though (its more than 100lb shipping weight)

with a turbo charger the vtf3-mk3 probably beats a PB12-NSD/2 handily, and i bet it even reaches into the Plus territory

jhan1000 · 12-13-06, 07:20 PM

I think the VFT3-MK3 are introductory prices, so it be may of better "value". In addition, the possibility of adding the turbo makes it even more intriguing.

vetobe · 12-13-06, 07:26 PM

Sorry,
It was the VTF3-Mk3. Yeah, I saw that it was a steep 90$ dollars more for shipping. This would put the introductory price at $740 (not going to go with the turbo but may upgrade later. In comparison, the SVS is $599 + $42 (shipping from Ohio to Minnesota) which is about $100 less. I am willing to spend the money if it is worth it. I know that there are SVS and HSU fans. Pipe in if you would. Anyone with a VTF3-MK2? How would these two compare?
Thanks

gotchaforce · 12-13-06, 07:36 PM

its up to you, both are great home theater subs, both are FRIGGIN HUGE too! I made a very quick mockup of the VTF3 and could barely believe it, then i was looking at the PB12NSD yesterday and noticed its even BIGGER (pics dont make it look that big... they need some comparison shots)

jhan1000 · 12-13-06, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vetobe

Sorry,
It was the VTF3-Mk3. Yeah, I saw that it was a steep 90$ dollars more for shipping. This would put the introductory price at $740 (not going to go with the turbo but may upgrade later. In comparison, the SVS is $599 + $42 (shipping from Ohio to Minnesota) which is about $100 less. I am willing to spend the money if it is worth it. I know that there are SVS and HSU fans. Pipe in if you would. Anyone with a VTF3-MK2? How would these two compare?
Thanks

Generally speaking, at these price ranges, you should see incremental improvements in performance as you spend more.

Get most subwoofer you can possibly afford.

vetobe · 12-13-06, 07:51 PM

Dimensions on these things are large. Thanks for pointing out that the SVS is bigger. Have to keep this in mind for the WAF. She doesn't know that I am buying a x-mas present for myself this year (have to see how that goes over). Don't think I will be able to sneak one of these subs in and tell her that it has always been there...you just haven't noticed it before

Anyone live in the twin cities with either an SVS (preferably the PB12-NSD) or an HSU (preferably VTF3-Mk2)? Love to hear how they sound.

Any other suggestions for subs in this price range?

jhan1000 · 12-13-06, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vetobe

...Have to keep this in mind for the WAF. She doesn't know that I am buying a x-mas present for myself this year (have to see how that goes over). Don't think I will be able to sneak one of these subs in and tell her that it has always been there...you just haven't noticed it before

Diamonds works wonders for the WAF.

Ron Temple · 12-13-06, 08:39 PM

Both SVS and Hsu make excellent products. I think the differences get played up by "us" enthusiasts. You will fall in love with either product, get the one that makes the most sense to you.

rlb4 · 12-14-06, 03:56 AM

Which of these two would go deeper and give more "oomph" below 20 Hz? It would be used about 99% for movies. Would the difference between the two be noticable to the average person? Room size is 14 x 17 x 7.5.

bfdtv · 12-14-06, 04:29 AM

The PB12-NSD is a great subwoofer but it's more comparable to the VTF2-Mk3. The VTF3-Mk3 is more appropriately compared to the PB12-Plus or PB12-Plus/2.

JEFFREY GTS · 12-14-06, 01:11 PM

Get my PB12 NSD today! Can't wait to play with it later.

dan711 · 12-14-06, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlb4

Which of these two would go deeper and give more "oomph" below 20 Hz? It would be used about 99% for movies. Would the difference between the two be noticable to the average person? Room size is 14 x 17 x 7.5.

Be careful with reading into alot of the technical language on this forum. It can overwhelm you when trying to make a purchasing decision. Many people here have years of experience in audio/video.
With that said, I consider myself an average person when it comes to HT. I owned the pb12-isd and the vtf-3mk2. My room is slightly larger than yours ( 14 x 22 x 9).
In my listening area the pb12 went deeper with movie watching than the vtf-3. I like to listen to music alot. In my room the vtf-3 sounded better than the pb12. I would consider them about equal overall with my listening habits in my listening area.

Dan

JEFFREY GTS · 12-14-06, 01:16 PM

I agree, there is a lot of technical terms and charts and numbers out there. While all that is good, it can get a bit overwhelming at times. All I care about is how good it sounds in my room. If I am happy with it then I don't care if it belts out 106 db's at 16hz.

cschang · 12-14-06, 01:31 PM

Dr. Hsu indicated that a single VTF-3Mk3(without turbo) is stronger in the lowest bass than DUAL VTF-3Mk2's.

bgillyjcu · 12-14-06, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan711

Be careful with reading into alot of the technical language on this forum. It can overwhelm you when trying to make a purchasing decision. Many people here have years of experience in audio/video.
With that said, I consider myself an average person when it comes to HT. I owned the pb12-isd and the vtf-3mk2. My room is slightly larger than yours ( 14 x 22 x 9).
In my listening area the pb12 went deeper with movie watching than the vtf-3. I like to listen to music alot. In my room the vtf-3 sounded better than the pb12. I would consider them about equal overall with my listening habits in my listening area.

Dan

Do you have those 2 subs running together.

how did the intgration go with 2 subs that are so different from each other?

Were you worried about not matching subs exactly, or even matching Brands?

Kipp Jones · 12-14-06, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vetobe

Sorry,
It was the VTF3-Mk3. Yeah, I saw that it was a steep 90$ dollars more for shipping. This would put the introductory price at $740 (not going to go with the turbo but may upgrade later. In comparison, the SVS is $599 + $42 (shipping from Ohio to Minnesota) which is about $100 less. I am willing to spend the money if it is worth it. I know that there are SVS and HSU fans. Pipe in if you would. Anyone with a VTF3-MK2? How would these two compare?
Thanks

You are aware that SVS is about to unveil their new line???

AdilM · 12-14-06, 06:20 PM

Don't be a tease, Kipp.
Tell us what you know.

dan711 · 12-14-06, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgillyjcu

Do you have those 2 subs running together.

how did the intgration go with 2 subs that are so different from each other?

Were you worried about not matching subs exactly, or even matching Brands?

No, I did not have them running together. I set them up one at a time in different positions in my listening area. They both sounded the best to me corner loaded about 15' from my listening position.

Peter Marcks · 12-14-06, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfdtv

The PB12-NSD is a great subwoofer but it's more comparable to the VTF2-Mk3. The VTF3-Mk3 is more appropriately compared to the PB12-Plus or PB12-Plus/2.

The VTF-3 Mk3/t is actually as good as dual TN1220HO's in the deep bass! But with all the other modular options, things become less comparable

vetobe · 12-14-06, 08:18 PM

So I was thinking very seriously about SVS PB12-NSD and then HSU comes along with VTF-3 MK3 and pushing that way and now Kipp says that SVS coming out with new line. This search may push me into the loony bin.

Any news that you are willing to share Kipp?

Relative to ground pounding bass with clarity, I know that neither choice (SVS or HSU) will be wrong. I also know that at the price point that I am searching, I want the best. How does one decide? How did you decide when it came right down to it. Remember that if I want to audition both of these, I am out a whole lot of money for shipping and returning the one I do not like (in essence, not willing to do this though it would be the best way).

How did you decide?

Peter Marcks · 12-14-06, 08:59 PM

Ask yourself this vetobe: are you interested in buying right away, or are you interesting in waiting? I could tell you that if you wait, we may have something coming out with DSP. But when will it be ready, how much will it cost, you will never know. The waiting game sometimes never ends.

Richard Mayer · 12-14-06, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vetobe

So I was thinking very seriously about SVS PB12-NSD and then HSU comes along with VTF-3 MK3 and pushing that way and now Kipp says that SVS coming out with new line. This search may push me into the loony bin.

Any news that you are willing to share Kipp?

AFAIK SVS is coming out with a new Ultra line somewhere around mid 2007. So it shouldn't interest you if you are looking at the more affordable choices. Ultra is their best and the most expensive line, starting at ~$1500.

bfdtv · 12-15-06, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Ask yourself this vetobe: are you interested in buying right away, or are you interesting in waiting? I could tell you that if you wait, we may have something coming out with DSP.

Just curious...is DSP something we can expect as standard on all your next-generation subs? That is, the generation beyond the Mk3 in 2008 or 2009?

Is a DSP upgrade or add-on for existing subs in the works?

gotchaforce · 12-15-06, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vetobe

So I was thinking very seriously about SVS PB12-NSD and then HSU comes along with VTF-3 MK3 and pushing that way and now Kipp says that SVS coming out with new line. This search may push me into the loony bin.

Any news that you are willing to share Kipp?

Relative to ground pounding bass with clarity, I know that neither choice (SVS or HSU) will be wrong. I also know that at the price point that I am searching, I want the best. How does one decide? How did you decide when it came right down to it. Remember that if I want to audition both of these, I am out a whole lot of money for shipping and returning the one I do not like (in essence, not willing to do this though it would be the best way).

How did you decide?

an SVS rep told me in an email that the only thing they plan on doing once the new year comes around is RAISING their prices

i would just go with the VTF3

DrewB · 12-15-06, 09:30 AM

Vetobe, I see that you are also in Minneapolis. Once I've had a chance to properly calibrate my VTF3-HO (which should be in the next week or two), maybe you can come over for a listen. It's a sweet subwoofer.

vetobe · 12-15-06, 08:07 PM

Drew, I would love to hear your VTF3-HO. The HO is out of my league cost wise so of course when I hear it, I will want one. Let me know when you have calibrated your sub.

Kipp Jones · 12-16-06, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotchaforce

an SVS rep told me in an email that the only thing they plan on doing once the new year comes around is RAISING their prices

What was their name???

bfdtv · 12-16-06, 01:17 AM

Quote:

What was their name???

Perhaps he's referring to the SVS news mailing, which addressed the price issue. In general, SVS doesn't comment on future products. One exception was the recent PB14 rumor thread, where Mr. Stimpson alluded to their next-generation 2007 subs with 13" drivers:

Quote:

Thanks for the interest in this "rumor" guys. How about this: It's not a 12" and it's not a 14". We have a great current Ultra woofer that allowed us the luxury of time to consider a host of size variations that leveraged past research but held to a tough yet simple standard: Any new Ultra product has got to be a sigificant improvement.

2-3 years has seen technology move on, indeed.

We don't play the vapor-ware game though, and to a degree we realize we probably inadvertantly caused some of this discussion. No official announcement of any new woofer or product has or can be made till we're sure we can give a solid availability window. If it was just woofers involved we might have done it already. New woofers of course beg the question about amp power, form factor, price etc etc, some of which simply aren't sorted out yet.

After quite a few delays things are falling into place rapidly however.

I expect the air should clear some about the time we show up at CES.

With its next-generation 13" driver, SVS should surpass all of the new models from Hsu. Comments from SVS suggest the new driver will only be offered in the $1100+ Ultra models, at least initially. I am anxious to see how SVS will price these subs, and whether they will remain true to their price/performance and value-oriented history.

I was a bit surprised the VTF-3 Mk3 didn't feature a new 13" driver. It looks like everyone else is heading in that direction for their next-generation subs.

rossandwendy · 12-16-06, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vetobe

Thought I was ready to go with the SVS and then saw the new HSU come out.

Any suggestions? Any help would be appreciated. Used for 90% HT.

I bought the redesigned SVS PB12-NSD and was quite pleased with it for movies at first since it was my first good sub. But after much listening to DVDs and music over a period of several weeks, I feel it is lacking in dynamics on demanding DVD scenes (explosions have little impact as the sub seems to run out of steam in my open room) and the bass seems to lack a bit of texture and speed (noticeable on soundtracks and even more so with music CDs).

I recently read Craigsub's comments in his subwoofer shootout about the amazing sound and measurements he's getting from the HSU VTF-3 HO, and upon discovering the just-released VTF-3 MK3 with the same enclosure size and dual 4" ports as the HO but for only $649, I ordered it immediately. I have read numerous comments in various reviews and forums about how musical HSU subs are so I am hoping the new VTF-3 MK3 will give me a bit more of what I'm after in my room.

12-13-06, 06:48 PM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
vetobe Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota Posts: 17	SVS PB12-NSD or HSU VTF-Mk3 Thought I was ready to go with the SVS and then saw the new HSU come out. Any suggestions? Any help would be appreciated. Used for 90% HT.

12-13-06, 07:26 PM	#4 \| Link
vetobe Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota Posts: 17	VTF3-Mk3 Sorry, It was the VTF3-Mk3. Yeah, I saw that it was a steep 90$ dollars more for shipping. This would put the introductory price at $740 (not going to go with the turbo but may upgrade later. In comparison, the SVS is $599 + $42 (shipping from Ohio to Minnesota) which is about $100 less. I am willing to spend the money if it is worth it. I know that there are SVS and HSU fans. Pipe in if you would. Anyone with a VTF3-MK2? How would these two compare? Thanks

12-13-06, 07:36 PM	#5 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
gotchaforce Advanced Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 890	its up to you, both are great home theater subs, both are FRIGGIN HUGE too! I made a very quick mockup of the VTF3 and could barely believe it, then i was looking at the PB12NSD yesterday and noticed its even BIGGER (pics dont make it look that big... they need some comparison shots)

12-13-06, 07:51 PM	#7 \| Link
vetobe Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota Posts: 17	svs and Hsu in twin cities Dimensions on these things are large. Thanks for pointing out that the SVS is bigger. Have to keep this in mind for the WAF. She doesn't know that I am buying a x-mas present for myself this year (have to see how that goes over). Don't think I will be able to sneak one of these subs in and tell her that it has always been there...you just haven't noticed it before Anyone live in the twin cities with either an SVS (preferably the PB12-NSD) or an HSU (preferably VTF3-Mk2)? Love to hear how they sound. Any other suggestions for subs in this price range?

12-13-06, 08:39 PM	#9 \| Link
Ron Temple AVS Special Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose CA Posts: 6,327	Both SVS and Hsu make excellent products. I think the differences get played up by "us" enthusiasts. You will fall in love with either product, get the one that makes the most sense to you. __________________ Listen while I lurk

12-13-06, 06:52 PM	#2 \| Link
gotchaforce Advanced Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 890	VTF3MK3 right?? would get the MK3 personally the shipping is $90 though (its more than 100lb shipping weight) with a turbo charger the vtf3-mk3 probably beats a PB12-NSD/2 handily, and i bet it even reaches into the Plus territory

12-13-06, 07:20 PM	#3 \| Link
jhan1000 Advanced Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: M. Tennessee Posts: 990	I think the VFT3-MK3 are introductory prices, so it be may of better "value". In addition, the possibility of adding the turbo makes it even more intriguing.

12-14-06, 03:56 AM	#10 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
rlb4 Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Northern NJ Posts: 26	Which of these two would go deeper and give more "oomph" below 20 Hz? It would be used about 99% for movies. Would the difference between the two be noticable to the average person? Room size is 14 x 17 x 7.5.

12-14-06, 04:29 AM	#11 \| Link
bfdtv AVS Addicted Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 12,918	The PB12-NSD is a great subwoofer but it's more comparable to the VTF2-Mk3. The VTF3-Mk3 is more appropriately compared to the PB12-Plus or PB12-Plus/2.

12-14-06, 01:11 PM	#12 \| Link
JEFFREY GTS Advanced Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Colorado Springs,CO Posts: 563	Get my PB12 NSD today! Can't wait to play with it later. __________________ I'm your Huckleberry

12-14-06, 01:16 PM	#14 \| Link
JEFFREY GTS Advanced Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Colorado Springs,CO Posts: 563	I agree, there is a lot of technical terms and charts and numbers out there. While all that is good, it can get a bit overwhelming at times. All I care about is how good it sounds in my room. If I am happy with it then I don't care if it belts out 106 db's at 16hz. __________________ I'm your Huckleberry

12-14-06, 01:31 PM	#15 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
cschang listen for yourself Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Manhattan Beach, CA Posts: 11,224	Dr. Hsu indicated that a single VTF-3Mk3(without turbo) is stronger in the lowest bass than DUAL VTF-3Mk2's. __________________ -curtis Volunteer Mod at the A s c e n d A c o u s t i c s Forum Somewhere between what someone posts and what I think, is the truth.

12-14-06, 06:20 PM	#18 \| Link
AdilM Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Durham/Chapel Hill Posts: 492	Don't be a tease, Kipp. Tell us what you know.

12-14-06, 08:18 PM	#21 \| Link
vetobe Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota Posts: 17	more angst So I was thinking very seriously about SVS PB12-NSD and then HSU comes along with VTF-3 MK3 and pushing that way and now Kipp says that SVS coming out with new line. This search may push me into the loony bin. Any news that you are willing to share Kipp? Relative to ground pounding bass with clarity, I know that neither choice (SVS or HSU) will be wrong. I also know that at the price point that I am searching, I want the best. How does one decide? How did you decide when it came right down to it. Remember that if I want to audition both of these, I am out a whole lot of money for shipping and returning the one I do not like (in essence, not willing to do this though it would be the best way). How did you decide?

12-14-06, 08:59 PM	#22 \| Link
Peter Marcks Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 701	Ask yourself this vetobe: are you interested in buying right away, or are you interesting in waiting? I could tell you that if you wait, we may have something coming out with DSP. But when will it be ready, how much will it cost, you will never know. The waiting game sometimes never ends.

12-15-06, 09:30 AM	#26 \| Link
DrewB Advanced Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Minnesota Posts: 691	Vetobe, I see that you are also in Minneapolis. Once I've had a chance to properly calibrate my VTF3-HO (which should be in the next week or two), maybe you can come over for a listen. It's a sweet subwoofer.

12-15-06, 08:07 PM	#27 \| Link
vetobe Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota Posts: 17	Drew, I would love to hear your VTF3-HO. The HO is out of my league cost wise so of course when I hear it, I will want one. Let me know when you have calibrated your sub.