Is Onkyo's "cinema filter" and other similar features just a gimmick?

[Napoleon D]

I'm thinking of purchasing a Panny XR-57 receiver for @ $300.00.

I was also considering an Onkyo TX SR-604 model as well. Onkyo has a feature called "Cinema Filter" on their receivers. This interests me in the sense that it's a feature that adapts theatrical soundratcks more to the HT environment - from how it's explained, this feature controls the brightness aspects of soundtracks in translating over to HT. Is this feature just a gimmick, or am I going to find that the XR-57 produces sound for HT environment at least as well? I have done a reasonable amount for treating reflections points, but it would be at least nice if the receiver did something to work with this. I know some very high end receivers use the calibration/microphone to adjust to the actual room more. Would you guys reccomend that Onkyo SR604 model or the Panasonic XR-57?

I guess i'm not too aware of the advantage of dual amps. As i see it, i've never had a problem with playing soundracks at high volumes and finding the power in the receiver to accurately play them.

While I have some treatments in my room, I still need to bump treble down on my JVC RX-6000 to -10 just to get the 8-10Khz range reasonably flat. I even tried the x-ls out for mains (which are supposed to have flat response in ideal environments), and even they hit high peaks in the 8-10Khz range. I even tried isolating them under a cover, with much lower volume, and they still hit the high. I can only assume the receiver would be causing some of this in a situation like this. Again, does the fact that there is a more controlled power source "dual amp" have any impact on this.

I'm asking 2 questions, whether the "cinema filter" on Onkyo offers any advantage the XR-57 may have. And also, what difference does having dual-amps have on a receiver.

[louthewiz]

The cinema feature is the same the as the THX feature on THX avrs and that tames bright soundtracks that some movies have,denon calls it Req but the panny does not have it which I feel is needed on some soundtracks and the panny is on the bright side.

[Napoleon D]

It sounds like "Cinema Filter" has part of what makes a receiver THX, but not all. Not to put a price on THX, but typically THX-certified receivers are 800$ and up.

If i'm not mistaken, THX-certified means many things, one of which includes controlling the "brightness" aspect. On the flipside, I'm not too sure features like "cinema filter" includes all the same performance that "THX" provides.

Right now I'm still torn between the Onkyo TX SR-604 and the Panny XR-57. The Panny's advantage, seems to be it's clear sound and the dual amps. The Onkyo's seems to be the added features.

With the dual amps, i'm not sure how much that would help me. Again i've never had a challenge with needing power to create a loud soundtrack, at least for the rooms i've used. Maybe i just don't understand the need for strong "clean" power goign through a receiver. My understanding is that it prevents distortion in higher volume ranges.

[ChrisWiggles]

napoleon: I'm not that familiar with Onkyo, but based on the description of this feature it sounds like a RE-EQ type feature. It is not a gimmick. What it does is roll off the HF a bit probably similarly or the same as THX RE-EQ. Many receivers have this kind of feature and it may be calle various names like "Cinema-EQ" or "HT-EQ" or things like that. "Cinema filter" sounds like that's exactly the same kind of thing. You may or may not want to use this, personally I find it useful on many soundtracks, but not on many others.

[louthewiz]

Originally Posted by Napoleon D

It sounds like "Cinema Filter" has part of what makes a receiver THX, but not all. Not to put a price on THX, but typically THX-certified receivers are 800$ and up.

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http://www.ecost.com/ecost/ecce/shop...pno~601996.asp
http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail~dpno~689077.asp
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...ures/538500742
That's not true you just need to know where to shop for a THX avr you can even find the pioneer 1016 tx for around $399.00...........

[Napoleon D]

I purchased a Denon (late Christmas present to myself). The "Cinema EQ" feature really takes out brightness to a soundtrack making it much easier on the ears. Do most of you activate these features?

[louthewiz]

I use it alot with bright movies and it helps alot and it makes it easy on the ears,I especially like THX surround ex the best...

[thehun]

Cinema EQ[THX RE-Eq] is not a "tone control". It tries to mimic the X curve used in commercial theaters. Most DVDs if not all are "remixed" for HT use so no further EQ-ing needed.The fact that some DVD's sound bright may not mean that it hasn't been redone but it could be recorded that way. I haven't used this feature about 6 years.

[Napoleon D]

The more i've experimented with this feature i've realized its ups and downs. The disadvantage is that it takes away a lot of life from the soundtrack. The advantage is that the sound is much easier on the ears.

I've debated between knocking the treble down 10db and using the Cinema EQ. When i knock the treble down, even that low, it tames that huge peak I get in the upper frequencies. I have to make sure it isn't clipping anything else though. Since my room is only partly treated, there is a great deal of treble interaction in the room. If you knock treble down, a lot of that mess of excess sound reverberating is eliminated. Again, since this receiver doesn't show you which frequencies bass/treble affects, i'm going to have to test it with a sweep.

Is this approach a wise one - lowering treble to eliminate the peaks? (that is until i get a better treated room years from now). It seems a better-sounding option than Cinema EQ, which actually takes quite a bit of tone out.

[CAVX]

Originally Posted by Napoleon D

Is this approach a wise one - lowering treble to eliminate the peaks? (that is until i get a better treated room years from now). It seems a better-sounding option than Cinema EQ, which actually takes quite a bit of tone out.

I'd be careful here as a tone control like "treble" is going to be centred on a high frequency like 10K, so pulling it down 10dB creates a huge dip in the response.

Re-eq on the other hand is a slight roll off of the highs from about 3K and up with a fixed amount of attenuation per octave. The actual ISO2969 is flat to 2K then rolls off at 3dB per octave. THX Re-eq (and other types) are not as severe as there is generally not that much needed in the home due to the fact that our speakers are different (flat response) designs to cinema speakers and we sit much closer in the home.

You also have to consider that the THX Re-eq curve was also designed for playback at "reference levels" and listening at lower levels (like most of us do) will change our perception of the amount of HF attenuation your hearing...

Mark

[Napoleon D]

In doing a freq. sweep on my system, there is a huge jump (about 10db) in the 6-10KHz range. When i knock off 10 db's from treble, it seems to flatten out. I ran sweeps with and without the treble lowering. Both stayed pretty much the same, with an exception of the dip in the end. In other words the peak is so strong in the treble (and over such a wide area), that lowering the treble as much as 10 db seems to even out things. But i still am making sure there is no significant dip, so far one has not stood out.

Question - how low does lowering the treble stretch, does it reach down to 6KHz, or closer to 1 or 2 KHz?

[CAVX]

I would think that that the treble is a narrow band of frequencies centred around 10K. To cover 6 - 10K would require the main frequency to be around 8K. A parametric EQ would be better here I would think...

Mark