Warner's release policy and 'catching up' explained

[Grubert]

From thedigitalbits, of course. Pasted without commentary.

We've also finally heard back from Warner per our high-def inquiry from early last week. We've spoken today with Warner Home Video's VP of HD Media Development, Dan Silverberg, about the studio's support of both the HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc formats moving forward. Here's what he had to say:

"WHV's objective is to have triple day and date releases for all new theatrical titles on DVD, HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc. We began this with The Lake House and more recently Superman Returns and Ant Bully. As for our catalog titles, we would like to have simultaneous HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc releases. Again, this is something we have done recently with National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation and A Christmas Story, and will be doing with Scooby-Doo and Alexander: The Director's Cut, as well as recent DVD releases coming soon to high def like Wickerman and Beerfest, both being the unrated versions.

We also plan to make every effort to "catch-up" the 2006 titles currently only out on HD DVD with the Blu-ray versions in 2007. There are two reasons that the discrepancy exists. One has to do with the interactivity layer for BD with respect to picture-in-picture functionality. Some of our titles like Batman Begins and V for Vendetta have extensive interactive experiences and we don't want the Blu-ray consumer to have a "lesser" experience. We expect that this enhanced interactivity will be ready on the Blu-ray side soon. The other reason had to do with length of movies and the availability of 50 GB discs. That situation has already improved, as the releases of Unforgiven, Last Samurai and Goodfellas (1/16) show. We are also working on Enter the Dragon and a few others for early 2007 Blu-ray release as part of that "catching up" plan."

There ya go.

[ShagMan]

So, it's official... the interactivity portion of Blu-Ray, coming late, has really bit them in the ass.

It's given as the sole reason that the Blu-Ray guys don't have some of Warner's best relesese to date.

[Michael Mullis]

The other reason had to do with length of movies and the availability of 50 GB discs. That situation has already improved, as the releases of Unforgiven, Last Samurai and Goodfellas (1/16) show.

So wait. Is Warner saying they need 50GB discs on the Blu-ray side to make up for the better compression that VC-1 gives them on HD DVD and because of that Unforgiven, Last Samurai, and Goodfellas simply won't fit on a 25 GB disc?

[Grubert]

Originally Posted by Michael Mullis

So wait. Is Warner saying they need 50GB discs on the Blu-ray side to make up for the better compression that VC-1 gives them on HD DVD and because of that Unforgiven, Last Samurai, and Goodfellas simply won't fit on a 25 GB disc?

No. All Warner BD titles released since September have been VC-1 and used the same encode as HD DVD.

[What'sHD]

Hallelujah, bring the BD loving, Warner

[avshaman]

Great news! I am sure many Blu-ray only owners are really looking forward to some of those titles.

[b2bonez]

Originally Posted by Grubert

From thedigitalbits, of course. Pasted without commentary.

There ya go.

That's what I have been looking for...

Without at least parity for new releases with the HD version getting the same day and date as DVD was a serious error to getting HD on shiny disc into the mainstream.

Hopefully they will start giving HD a two week head start to really give a good reason to pay the premium for both HW and media...

b2b

[efranzen]

Some of our titles like Batman Begins and V for Vendetta have extensive interactive experiences and we don't want the Blu-ray consumer to have a "lesser" experience.

They should really be commended for trying to give owners of both formats the same experience.

[Amiable-Akuma]

Okay then - now I have to ask this: How smooth/perfected truly is BD's advanced authoring and BD-50 yielding capabilities at this point then?

Are both of those things truly now as strong and easy as HD DVDs advanced authoring and HD DVD-30 production?

Or do BD fans have another significant wait ahead of them (for the best Warner titles, most-advanced titles) while Sony struggles to get BD-50 yields produced at low-cost/very high ratios/quick turn-around and bring a fully-functional/very easy new authoring system to the forefront? If so, how long might that wait be?

Warner's intentions seem honest, fair, and noble - but will that change their preference to release more of their best stuff on HD DVD (any time soon) - if and when it is so much easier/cheaper to create or produce such stuff on it instead of BD?

[TomsHT]

So is this the cause of catalog HD DVD titles that we know are already made being delayed from release till they can match the interactivity on BR? Where is the darn Harry Potter and Matrix movie for HD DVD?

[b2bonez]

Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma

Okay then - now I have to ask this: How smooth/perfected truly is BD's advanced authoring and BD-50 yielding capabilities at this point then?

Are both of those things truly now as strong and easy as HD DVDs advanced authoring and HD DVD-30 production?

Or do BD fans have another significant wait ahead of them (for the best Warner titles, most-advanced titles) while Sony struggles to get BD-50 yields produced at low-cost/very high ratios/quick turn-around and bring a fully-functional/very easy new authoring system to the forefront? If so, how long might that wait be?

Warner's intentions seem honest, fair, and noble - but will that change their preference to release more of their best stuff on HD DVD (any time soon) - if and when it is so much easier/cheaper to create or produce such stuff on it instead of BD?

Continuing on with the BD-50GB FUD =

The new campaign is BD-J & BD-Live... Come on now.. keep up...

b2b

[Grubert]

Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma

If so, how long might that wait be?

The answer is right there, if you bother to read the article in the first place:

We also plan to make every effort to "catch-up" the 2006 titles currently only out on HD DVD with the Blu-ray versions in 2007.

[xbdestroya]

Originally Posted by efranzen

They should really be commended for trying to give owners of both formats the same experience.

I'm not sure about 'commending' Warner for much...

If they want a uniform experience all around, I'm not sure I understand the laziness on their parts in getting the recent BD films the audio tracks they deserve.

Anyway still, good news overall.

[Amiable-Akuma]

Grubert, btb - could you guys just frankly/briefly answer my questions instead of making your "little comments"? ...Seriously, though, - I was being honest in my questions - not cynical.

Grubert, I read the article - 2007, yes, - but 2007 is a long ****ing time. I was looking for a more specific guess-timation from those who knew the answers to the questions I posed before it. You see, starved and impatient high-def fans can't wait 3 weeks for HD DVD announcements at CES without going insane. I don't want to imagine how bitter BD fans will get (and justifiably so) - if they actually will be waiting to get Batman Begins all the way into the second half of next year.

As for my other questions - I need someone who's aware to just quickly, honestly answer them. I haven't been following BD's track-record of success or BD in general like many others have. So I'm truthfully curious. Is BD in a position where they could have Batman Begins authoring on a BD-50 tomorrow? And as easily/cheapily as it could be done on HD DVD? Or are there some hurdles (minor or major) that must be overcome to reach that point?

Last time I checked BD-50 yields weren't 100% perfect, costed a little more, were a little more difficult to make and were being subsidized by Sony for the studios to have something out there. Last time I checked, there was a very small percentages of BD-50 titles actually available or in the pipe-line. And last time I checked - advanced BD authoring tools like picture-in-picture were either non-existant or just being introduced.

Again though, I'm just being honest here. That last paragraph I just wrote was NOT being cynical or snide to BD. That's just honestly what my understanding of the BD situation is/was. But maybe I'm a confused nut about that stuff and more developments have been made.

So could somebody please help me out here?

[Esox50]

This is what I've been saying for at least 3 weeks now. I also posted that a Microsoft VP said as much in the latest WSR. It has to do with the PiP aspect of BD. Of course, people like Plazman continued to believe that WB has some secret "favoring" of HD DVD when the more simple explanation here makes total sense. Of course, the vision of some people here has been clouded by a different MS VP here. Tis a shame, really.

Whatever, some people around here are in a fantasy world.

As to the question of "where's Harry Potter and the Matrix"...think about it. These are BIG catalog titles from WB. BD is/was not ready to provide the "full experience/interactivity" WB wanted, and my GUESS is that the BDA has asked WB to hold those titles from HD DVD in North America until the BD versions are able to provide a "comparable" experience so that they can be released simultaneously (or as close to simultanesously as possible).

Now, I'm sure some jokers here are going to "hate the BDA" even more now, citing the interactivity delays on BD and "strong-arming from the BDA" as reasons they cannot get their favorite WB titles ASAP on HD DVD. But, I would think they should be asking why WB would comply with such a request...

[crussader]

Originally Posted by xbdestroya

If they want a uniform experience all around, I'm not sure I understand the laziness on their parts in getting the recent BD films the audio tracks they deserve.

If the BD players could decode the advanced audio codecs, I'm sure Warner would put the same audio on BD that they're putting on HD.

[wolfyncsu7]

Originally Posted by xbdestroya

I'm not sure about 'commending' Warner for much...

If they want a uniform experience all around, I'm not sure I understand the laziness on their parts in getting the recent BD films the audio tracks they deserve.

Anyway still, good news overall.

I'm really curious about Warner's response to the question of 'Why do none of your Blu-ray releases have lossless audio tracks?' as well, but it does SEEM that it could be a temporary technical issue like the early VC-1 problem/ current interactivity problem.

At least it doesn't appear, in my opinion, that Warner is purposely favoring HD DVD.

[wolfyncsu7]

Originally Posted by crussader

If the BD players could decode the advanced audio codecs, I'm sure Warner would put the same audio on BD that they're putting on HD.

They put TrueHD tracks on HD DVD discs before the players could decode them.

... and...

The PS3 DOES decode TrueHD currently and is the highest selling hi def player available.

.... and....

With a supposed firmware upgrade coming soon, the Panasonic player will be TrueHD capable.

So, I don't think your point is completely valid.

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by wolfyncsu7

I'm really curious about Warner's response to the question of 'Why do none of your Blu-ray releases have lossless audio tracks?' as well, but it does SEEM that it could be a temporary technical issue like the early VC-1 problem/ current interactivity problem.

I believe that is the case. Someone had posted rather recently about the differences in the way TrueHD is handled on each respective format. Had something to do with a core packet, and layering of the lossles on one format vs. the other. I'm not sure I "get it", and hope that someone could comment and/or verify that this is indeed the case.

[Ezra]

So because BD couldn't get it's act together HD DVD owners suffer?

[crussader]

Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma

You see, starved and impatient high-def fans can't wait 3 weeks for HD DVD announcements at CES without going insane. I don't want to imagine how bitter BD fans will get (and justifiably so) - if they actually will be waiting to get Batman Begins all the way into the second half of next year.

PiP is not required in BD until June, and that is only for players manufactured after that date. No telling when those players hit the market. Batman on BD will have to to wait until after that. I would suspect that the release will be closer to the end of the year than the beginning.

[wolfyncsu7]

Originally Posted by Esox50

I believe that is the case. Someone had posted rather recently about the differences in the way TrueHD is handled on each respective format. Had something to do with a core packet, and layering of the lossles on one format vs. the other. I'm not sure I "get it", and hope that someone could comment and/or verify that this is indeed the case.

I hope, if this is the case, that it is dealt with soon. But, if it can't be for whatever reason, I really don't mind Warner holding back titles like Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, and The Matrix until the issue is resolved. It would really be a shame if those discs are released without lossless audio of some sort.

I wonder what the issue is with them not simply slapping a LPCM track on though in the meantime. Does Warner have a deal with Dolby?

[Amiable-Akuma]

Originally Posted by crussader

PiP is not required in BD until June, and that is only for players manufactured after that date. No telling when those players hit the market. Batman on BD will have to to wait until after that. I would suspect that the release will be closer to the end of the year than the beginning.

Wow, see, I didn't know this. Thanks for your reply - and if anyone else has additional input on the questions I posed - please provide it.

But what does this mean? HD DVD fans now won't see Matrix, Harry Potter, or any other PiP/advanced authoring title til after next June (when they were promised them this summer) - just because of whatever BS Blu-ray is going through?

And I need further clarification as to what you are saying, crussader. Maybe I'm dense - but I thought PiP wasn't as dependant on hardware. Are you saying that none of the current BD players (including the PS3) are capable of doing PiP, no matter how the discs are authored? But things like a cheap HD DVD drive can?

And why would PiP not being required til June mean that there is no way for BD to get these titles until after that? Is there no chance BD won't offer a solution (either through new hardware/firmware/authoring/or whatever) prior to June or that Warner won't just release those titles anyway? (I know we're speculating here but that's fine - just curious of your/the opinion)

[b2bonez]

Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma

Grubert, btb - could you guys just frankly/briefly answer my questions instead of making your "little comments"? ...Seriously, though, - I was being honest in my questions - not cynical.

Grubert, I read the article - 2007, yes, - but 2007 is a long ****ing time. I was looking for a more specific guess-timation from those who knew the answers to the questions I posed before it. You see, starved and impatient high-def fans can't wait 3 weeks for HD DVD announcements at CES without going insane. I don't want to imagine how bitter BD fans will get (and justifiably so) - if they actually will be waiting to get Batman Begins all the way into the second half of next year.

As for my other questions - I need someone who's aware to just quickly, honestly answer them. I haven't been following BD's track-record of success or BD in general like many others have. So I'm truthfully curious. Is BD in a position where they could have Batman Begins authoring on a BD-50 tomorrow? And as easily/cheapily as it could be done on HD DVD? Or are there some hurdles (minor or major) that must be overcome to reach that point?

Last time I checked BD-50 yields weren't 100% perfect, costed a little more, were a little more difficult to make and were being subsidized by Sony for the studios to have something out there. Last time I checked, there was a very small percentages of BD-50 titles actually available or in the pipe-line. And last time I checked - advanced BD authoring tools like picture-in-picture were either non-existant or just being introduced.

Again though, I'm just being honest here. That last paragraph I just wrote was NOT being cynical or snide to BD. That's just honestly what my understanding of the BD situation is/was. But maybe I'm a confused nut about that stuff and more developments have been made.

So could somebody please help me out here?

The only person that has any qualifications to comment on the BD-50GB situation said this..

The titles that were released on BD25 were relatively short runtimes. This allowed us to include the picture and sound we wanted for all the titles. You will see a great deal of BD50 in the future (something like 75 - 80%). That will give us the flexiblity to release any title we want without compromises.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9191150

b2b

[b2bonez]

Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma

Wow, see, I didn't know this. Thanks for your reply - and if anyone else has additional input on the questions I posed - please provide it.

But what does this mean? HD DVD fans now won't see Matrix, Harry Potter, or any other PiP/advanced authoring title til after next June (when they were promised them this summer) - just because of whatever BS Blu-ray is going through?

And I need further clarification as to what you are saying, crussader. Maybe I'm dense - but I thought PiP wasn't as dependant on hardware. Are you saying that none of the current BD players (including the PS3) are capable of doing PiP, no matter how the discs are authored? But things like a cheap HD DVD drive can?

And why would PiP not being required til June mean that there is no way for BD to get these titles until after that? Is there no chance BD won't offer a solution (either through new hardware/firmware/authoring/or whatever) prior to June or that Warner won't just release those titles anyway? (I know we're speculating here but that's fine - just curious of your/the opinion)

The new campaign is BD-J & BD-Live... Come on now.. keep up...

Glad to see you're up to speed....

b2b

[bobgpsr]

Originally Posted by wolfyncsu7

They put TrueHD tracks on HD DVD discs before the players could decode them.

Not true. the HD DVD spec requires that all players decode at least 2 channels of TrueHD. The original A1/XA1 could play stereo TrueHD off of the POTO disc. We just got to enjoy 5.1 TrueHD with the firmware 2.0 release.

[Amiable-Akuma]

Originally Posted by b2bonez

The only person that has any qualifications to comment on the BD-50GB situation said this..

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9191150

b2b

Originally Posted by b2bonez

Glad to see you're up to speed....

b2b

Hah, okay, - thanks, btb, for everything. That is interesting and actually very cool. I hope that BD-50 prediction does actually come to fruition (and I have no reason to believe it will not, I guess) and is the reality for the future of the format. That would be so much better for high-def fans in general.

Hmm, little news/info tidbits like this makes me look forward to CES even more. Reminds me that beyond just the obvious interesting things like title announcements - we may hear all kinds of lesser bullet-points that are no less exciting. (Such as status/usage/& plans for codecs, advanced authoring, capacities, web connectivity, etc - of both formats. Will be very cool to hear! )

[wolfyncsu7]

Originally Posted by bobgpsr

Not true. the HD DVD spec requires that all players decode at least 2 channels of TrueHD. The original A1/XA1 could play stereo TrueHD off of the POTO disc. We just got to enjoy 5.1 TrueHD with the firmware 2.0 release.

yeah... sorry... meant to say "5.1 TrueHD tracks"... but my argument still stands with this correction.

All I'm saying is that Warner put the soundtrack on the disc before the player could fully use it, so they don't seem to have any apprehension future-proofing their titles somewhat.

It does sound like it's a technical/ authoring reason Warner is holding back TrueHD tracks from Blu-ray releases, though (posted in the 'Insiders' thread):

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet:
Question for WB insiders:

Why does the BD of Superman Returns lack the Dolby True HD Lossless track that's included on the HD DVD?

Since all BD players (even those that can't "decode" Dolby true HD at the moment) can pass the 640 DD core from a D-True-HD track, why eliminate it? My PS3 can transcode D-True-HD to LPCM and most current players that can't will be upgraded.

Response by Talkstr8t:

I have no direct knowledge of Warner's rationale, but TrueHD on Blu-ray has a different format than on HD-DVD. On HD-DVD it's a single stream. On Blu-ray it's a core DD stream plus a peripheral stream which, when processed together with the core stream, provides the lossless stream. Therefore Warner would have to re-encode the audio. I can't imagine this is a big enough deal for them not to do it, but perhaps it has a ripple effect making the whole encode far more expensive.

[Michael Mullis]

No. All Warner BD titles released since September have been VC-1 and used the same encode as HD DVD.

Thanks Grubert. But this still confuses me. Basically I'm asking if those movies were bigger than 25GB, but enough for 30GB, and they couldn't release until BD-50 was more mainstream?

[Amiable-Akuma]

Originally Posted by wolfyncsu7

Response by Talkstr8t:

I have no direct knowledge of Warner's rationale, but TrueHD on Blu-ray has a different format than on HD-DVD. On HD-DVD it's a single stream. On Blu-ray it's a core DD stream plus a peripheral stream which, when processed together with the core stream, provides the lossless stream. Therefore Warner would have to re-encode the audio. I can't imagine this is a big enough deal for them not to do it, but perhaps it has a ripple effect making the whole encode far more expensive.

^^^Wow, so that's interesting too. It may be true then that current costs of encoding a TrueHD BD disc in the authoring process is significantly higher then it is for HD DVD to do the same. Therefore, we may see far less (or zero) TrueHD tracks on BD discs compared to HD DVD for a long time. Meaning that the only time BD will ever really see TrueHD tracks in a significant amount of titles is when the costs of encoding have just dropped in general and not necessarily even when/if BD authoring/encoding tools have improved - yes?

Sorry if I'm still "catching up" or confused...