Converting HDMI audio signal to optical

[JeffPaine]

OK, so I have a Playstation 3, an HDMI cable, an optical cable and a 7.1 surround sound receiver without an HDMI slot. Everything works great, except the PS3 can't output 7.1 using optical, and some games won't even output 5.1 unless you're outputting audio through an HDMI cable. So, is there any converter for HDMI audio to optical audio? The only thing I could find was a $200-something HDMI switch, but the PS3 is the only HDMI device I have right now, so that would be a waste of money.

[louthewiz]

First of all to output 5.1 from your ps3 you need to set the optical out to "Bitstream" and not "Pcm" so you can get 5.1 via optical output.

[JeffPaine]

Well first of all, that's not necessarily true, depending on your receiver, and that only applies to movies regardless.

Second of all, I already have 5.1 output. The problem is, the PS3 doesn't support 7.1 output through the digital out port, only through the HDMI port, and I'd like the 7.1 output seeing as the PS3 is the only device I have that even supports 7.1.

Also, the PS3 apparently has some issues with hardware mixing for outputing 5.1 through the digital output port, and some games didn't implement software mixing so they could be released in time for launch (specifically Blazing Angels).

So, as you can see, the digital out port on the PS3 is pretty much crap, so I would like to know if there's a converter that can convert an HDMI cable to an optical cable so I can use HDMI audio output on my PS3 but still plug it into my reciever, which doesn't have an HDMI port on it.

[bfdtv]

Jeff,

Well first of all, that's not necessarily true, depending on your receiver, and that only applies to movies regardless.

Second of all, I already have 5.1 output. The problem is, the PS3 doesn't support 7.1 output through the digital out port, only through the HDMI port, and I'd like the 7.1 output seeing as the PS3 is the only device I have that even supports 7.1

You are a little confused.

Optical output doesn't support 7.1 output. That is a HDMI-only feature. This isn't a limitation of the PS3, it's a limitation of the optical connection, as designed and implemented in all consumer devices.

The same goes for 5.1 LPCM. Optical simply doesn't support multichannel uncompressed LPCM output, which is the format some games apparently use. Again, this is a limitation of the optical connection, as designed and implemented in all consumer devices. It is not a limitation that is specific to the PS3.

If you have optical, you need to set the PS3 to output bitstream / Dolby Digital. If you set your PS3 to LPCM, the best you can get is stereo, because that is all optical can support. As implemented in consumer devices, the optical connection supports a maximum codec transport of 1.5 Mbps.

Bitstream
5.1 Dolby Digital (DVD ) = 0.448 Mbps
5.1 Dolby Digital (Bluray) = 0.640 Mbps
5.1 DTS = 0.768 Mbps
6.1 DTS-ES = 1.5 Mbps

LPCM
2.0 16/48 LPCM = 1.5 Mbps (supported by optical)
5.1 16/48 LPCM = 4.6 Mbps (HDMI only)
5.1 24/48 LPCM = 6.9 Mbps (HDMI only)
7.1 24/48 LPCM = 9.2 Mbps (HDMI only)
7.1 24/96 LPCM = 18.4 Mbps (HDMI only)

When A/V receivers without HDMI say they support 7.1, in most cases, all that means is they will apply 7.1 Dolby Prologic IIx processing to a 5.1 signal. It does not mean they accept 7.1 signal. If a receiver doesn't have HDMI, then it doesn't support a 7.1 LPCM input from the PS3 or any other device, and nothing can be done to change that. Some receivers without HDMI have 7.1 analog input jacks, but the Sony didn't include the DACs necessary to make 7.1 analog output possible -- this was done to keep costs down.

[tedwinters]

Originally Posted by bfdtv

When A/V receivers without HDMI say they support 7.1, in most cases, all that means is they will apply 7.1 Dolby Prologic IIx processing to a 5.1 signal. It does not mean they accept 7.1 signal. If a receiver doesn't have HDMI, then it doesn't support a 7.1 LPCM input from the PS3 or any other device, and nothing can be done to change that. Some receivers without HDMI have 7.1 analog input jacks, but the Sony didn't include the DACs necessary to make 7.1 analog output possible -- this was done to keep costs down.

darn... this means the Pioneer Elite 49TXi I have is already in need of replacement
That's a bit upsetting considering how much I paid for it just a couple years ago!

I know very little about this, but it's interesting that my xbox passes out a stream recognizeable by my reciever for 7.1 sound (out of a normal optical cable), yet the PS3 can't..

[louthewiz]

The xbox is outputting 5.1 and not 7.1 via optical cable.

Bitstream
5.1 Dolby Digital (DVD ) = 0.448 Mbps
5.1 Dolby Digital (Bluray) = 0.640 Mbps
5.1 DTS = 0.768 Mbps
6.1 DTS-ES = 1.5 Mbps

[bfdtv]

Originally Posted by tedwinters

darn... this means the Pioneer Elite 49TXi I have is already in need of replacement
That's a bit upsetting considering how much I paid for it just a couple years ago!

I know very little about this, but it's interesting that my xbox passes out a stream recognizeable by my reciever for 7.1 sound (out of a normal optical cable), yet the PS3 can't..

Ted,

You can still get output out of all your speakers. Your older receiver can take the 5.1 or 6.1 DTS-ES signal and use its Dolby Prologic IIx processing to create virtual 7.1 surround. It's not true discrete 7.1, and won't match the performance of true 7.1, but it still uses all your speakers and can sound pretty darn good.

[tedwinters]

Originally Posted by louthewiz

The xbox is outputting 5.1 and not 7.1 via optical cable.

Bitstream
5.1 Dolby Digital (DVD ) = 0.448 Mbps
5.1 Dolby Digital (Bluray) = 0.640 Mbps
5.1 DTS = 0.768 Mbps
6.1 DTS-ES = 1.5 Mbps

You sure?? Honestly, I have VERY little technical knowledge on this, but I popped in Gladiator, picked the 7.1 stream, and got independant sound out of each speaker via the xbox and the optical cable...

Originally Posted by bfdtv

Ted,

You can still get output out of all your speakers. Your older receiver can take the 5.1 or 6.1 DTS-ES signal and use its Dolby Prologic IIx processing to create virtual 7.1 surround. It's not true discrete 7.1, and won't match the performance of true 7.1, but it still uses all your speakers and can sound pretty darn good.

Good to know - it's still a bit frustrating that I can't seem to even use the PCM lossless channels when I have the PS3 set to output bitstream.. (reciever plays it as NEO-6)... I think it still may be time to upgrade...
Thanks again for your info!

[thecrazykevy]

Originally Posted by tedwinters

You sure?? Honestly, I have VERY little technical knowledge on this, but I popped in Gladiator, picked the 7.1 stream, and got independant sound out of each speaker via the xbox and the optical cable...

Gladiator is only 6.1, your receiver just duplicates the 6th channel to the 7th channel.

[digitalness]

B/C the PS3 will only output the 7.1 audio over the HDMI, I too have this issue with my receiver being the Elite 49TX... I did find a possible solution in the form of a hardware converter box that sits btwn the PS3 HDMI source and your AV Receiver.

I have not ordered the converter box yet. It is supposed to split the inbound HDMI signal to component video via RCA (RGB) connectors and DIGITAL AUDIO via a single RCA (Digital coax) connector, (not optical), but most receivers that take optical connectors will also have a few for digital audio input via a standard RCA connection...

The model is: MODEL # X-CON YUV

I'm not allowed to post the link to the pdf datasheet until I have posted at least 3 times... :-( However, if you google that model, you'll get the link soon enough.

I'd appreciate thoughts on whether the 7.1 digital audio signal can be split from the HDMI and passed via a single digital copper connection as is implied by this device.

Thanks

[BIslander]

That's just a standard digital coax connection, which is limited to 5.1 (6.1 for DTS-ES Discrete). You'd get the same result using an optical output from your PS3. If fact, optical would proabably be better because I doubt that box downmixes 7.1 content to 5.1. It probably discards data from the 7th and 8th channels.

Octava makes a switch designed for use with a PS3 that converts HDMI to 7.1 analog. But, it costs $350. You'd be better off getting a BD player with analog outputs.

[sivadselim]

Originally Posted by digitalness

B/C the PS3 will only output the 7.1 audio over the HDMI, I too have this issue with my receiver being the Elite 49TX...

No, you don't. And neither does he. You guys are trying to create a solution for a problem that doesn't even exist. You're not going to get true 8 channel audio from ANYTHING that connects via an S/PDIF connection.