Placing sub in component cabinet - need advice

dutchgolden · 12-23-06, 10:54 AM

Hi all,

I have built a home theater in my basement and I am now looking for some advice related to my subwoofer. Here are the characteristics of the room:

* It is not dedicated; instead it is a section of a very large open room. The theater area is 12 x 22, however this is part of a larger area which is 42x22. Rest of the area is pool room, bar, etc.

* The theater room is composed of a plasma mounted to the wall, 7.1 speaker setup with B&W in-walls/on-walls and an old M&K VX75 II sub. The sub is located in a built in component cabinet (sunk into adjacent wall of plasma) and there is a door with speaker fabric to vent the bass into the room. I realize sub placement is may not be optimal, but aesthetics are important to me.

Now for my questions .....

1) Any advice on placing a sub inside a cabinet? Should I cut out the bottom of the cabinet and place it directly on the concrete to avoid rattling? Should I keep the back of the cabinet intact? Is there a particular design of sub that works best for this type of situation?

2) I'm wondering if I should consider upgrading my sub? The sub I have, while decent quality, doesn't seem capable of filling such a large room with bass. I've been looking at HSU and wondering what is the best sub for my setup.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Chad

ggunnell · 12-23-06, 12:02 PM

If you post the interior dimensions of your cabinet we can help you more

Most any sub (that will fit!) can go in a cabinet. Generally down-firing subs are not a good idea as the driver 'plays' the cabinet, but many of them can be laid on their side so the driver faces out. If you use a ported sub, the port needs to be on the same side of the enclosure as the driver (SVS PB10 and PB12-NSD, Outlaw LFM-1, etc.)

ACI sells models of their subs that are designed for custom installs. Here is ACI's Custom Install FAQ page:
http://www.audioc.com/speakers1/custom/customfaqs.htm

dutchgolden · 12-23-06, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggunnell

If you post the interior dimensions of your cabinet we can help you more

Most any sub (that will fit!) can go in a cabinet. Generally down-firing subs are not a good idea as the driver 'plays' the cabinet, but many of them can be laid on their side so the driver faces out. If you use a ported sub, the port needs to be on the same side of the enclosure as the driver (SVS PB10 and PB12-NSD, Outlaw LFM-1, etc.)

ACI sells models of their subs that are designed for custom installs. Here is ACI's Custom Install FAQ page:
http://www.audioc.com/speakers1/custom/customfaqs.htm

Thanks for the reply! Good point on the dimensions .....

Dimensions of the sub compartment are 26”H x 27”W x 22”Deep; I could possibly get an additional 3” of height if I cut out the bottom on the cabinet and place the sub directly on the concrete floor (which I may do anyway to isolate the sub and avoid rattling). As I look at the HSU measurements I'm wondering if depth of the cabinet will be an issue; their subs seems to be 23-25" deep. I could cut out the back of the cabinet as the adjoining room is unfinished; would that degrade the sub's performance?

Thanks!

Darin · 12-23-06, 01:52 PM

You've already gotten some good advice, but have you played with sub locations? That is a very large space to fill, and a sub's performance can vary greatly depending on where it's placed. I'd be a bit hesitant to be cutting cabinets to install a sub without knowing for sure that that will be a good location for it. But if that is where it is to go, I definitely would prefer floor mounting over having it be supported by the cabinet. You may not want those vibrations being transferred to the cabinet (and everything in it). It's hard enough eliminating vibrations in a room that are just transmitted by air.

ggunnell · 12-23-06, 03:44 PM

I don't think any of the 12" Hsu's have the port and driver on the same side, whereas the Hsu designed Outlaw LFM-1 does.
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/..._gallery1.html

You MUST have all the sound radiating drivers and ports facing out of the cabinet.

Removing the base of the cabinet to keep the sub from directly transferring vibrations to the cabinetry is a good idea. Opening the back of the cabinet would reduce cabinet resonances but would also 'vent' the listening room. I'd hold off on that unless you cannot find a sub <22" deep and don't want the sub sticking out from the cabinetry. The LFM-1 Plus, for example, is 21.75" high -- that would be the depth when you lay it on it's side -- and that includes the removable feet, so installed height should be an easy fit.
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1plus.html

Darin's point about a 'build in' location often not resulting in an ideal frequency response at the listening position is worth repeating -- you should check with your old sub. If putting it in the cabinet sounds a LOT worse than putting it in other locations you may need to rethink this. If it's not too much worse consider adding an SMS-1 to the package; an LFM-1 Plus and an SMS-1 together would be under $1300, and Outlaw does not publish but might quote you a package discount as they do on the regular LFM-1.

Hogan · 01-01-07, 01:59 PM

The wifey wants to get some cabinets and bookshelves -- bottom section is a 36 x 16 area with doors on front.

My BIC is too deep to fit inside facing out. Can I put it in sideways? It is a forward firing spkr but I've heard bass is omnidirectional. Thought I could just open up the doors when its time to play a movie -- but the BIC would still fire sideways in the cabinet.

Otherwise I may have to locate it off to the side not directly near the TV area.

Help?

ggunnell · 01-01-07, 11:12 PM

How your cabinet will sound with a side-firing woofer in it can be determined only one way: Try it!

12-23-06, 10:54 AM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
dutchgolden Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Iowa Posts: 35	Placing sub in component cabinet - need advice Hi all, I have built a home theater in my basement and I am now looking for some advice related to my subwoofer. Here are the characteristics of the room: * It is not dedicated; instead it is a section of a very large open room. The theater area is 12 x 22, however this is part of a larger area which is 42x22. Rest of the area is pool room, bar, etc. * The theater room is composed of a plasma mounted to the wall, 7.1 speaker setup with B&W in-walls/on-walls and an old M&K VX75 II sub. The sub is located in a built in component cabinet (sunk into adjacent wall of plasma) and there is a door with speaker fabric to vent the bass into the room. I realize sub placement is may not be optimal, but aesthetics are important to me. Now for my questions ..... 1) Any advice on placing a sub inside a cabinet? Should I cut out the bottom of the cabinet and place it directly on the concrete to avoid rattling? Should I keep the back of the cabinet intact? Is there a particular design of sub that works best for this type of situation? 2) I'm wondering if I should consider upgrading my sub? The sub I have, while decent quality, doesn't seem capable of filling such a large room with bass. I've been looking at HSU and wondering what is the best sub for my setup. Thanks in advance for your help! Chad __________________ Cheers, Dutch Golden

12-23-06, 12:02 PM	#2 \| Link
ggunnell Human Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Columbia, MO Posts: 1,016	If you post the interior dimensions of your cabinet we can help you more Most any sub (that will fit!) can go in a cabinet. Generally down-firing subs are not a good idea as the driver 'plays' the cabinet, but many of them can be laid on their side so the driver faces out. If you use a ported sub, the port needs to be on the same side of the enclosure as the driver (SVS PB10 and PB12-NSD, Outlaw LFM-1, etc.) ACI sells models of their subs that are designed for custom installs. Here is ACI's Custom Install FAQ page: http://www.audioc.com/speakers1/custom/customfaqs.htm Last edited by ggunnell; 12-23-06 at 12:09 PM..

12-23-06, 01:52 PM	#4 \| Link
Darin AVS Special Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta Posts: 4,897	You've already gotten some good advice, but have you played with sub locations? That is a very large space to fill, and a sub's performance can vary greatly depending on where it's placed. I'd be a bit hesitant to be cutting cabinets to install a sub without knowing for sure that that will be a good location for it. But if that is where it is to go, I definitely would prefer floor mounting over having it be supported by the cabinet. You may not want those vibrations being transferred to the cabinet (and everything in it). It's hard enough eliminating vibrations in a room that are just transmitted by air. __________________ My dual Rythmik Servo sub project (actually quad now, need to update page) HDM format neutral thanks to the pricing wars of the '07 xmas shopping season :)

12-23-06, 03:44 PM	#5 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
ggunnell Human Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Columbia, MO Posts: 1,016	I don't think any of the 12" Hsu's have the port and driver on the same side, whereas the Hsu designed Outlaw LFM-1 does. http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/..._gallery1.html You MUST have all the sound radiating drivers and ports facing out of the cabinet. Removing the base of the cabinet to keep the sub from directly transferring vibrations to the cabinetry is a good idea. Opening the back of the cabinet would reduce cabinet resonances but would also 'vent' the listening room. I'd hold off on that unless you cannot find a sub <22" deep and don't want the sub sticking out from the cabinetry. The LFM-1 Plus, for example, is 21.75" high -- that would be the depth when you lay it on it's side -- and that includes the removable feet, so installed height should be an easy fit. http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1plus.html Darin's point about a 'build in' location often not resulting in an ideal frequency response at the listening position is worth repeating -- you should check with your old sub. If putting it in the cabinet sounds a LOT worse than putting it in other locations you may need to rethink this. If it's not too much worse consider adding an SMS-1 to the package; an LFM-1 Plus and an SMS-1 together would be under $1300, and Outlaw does not publish but might quote you a package discount as they do on the regular LFM-1.

01-01-07, 01:59 PM	#6 \| Link
Hogan Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 342	BIC H-100 inside cabinet The wifey wants to get some cabinets and bookshelves -- bottom section is a 36 x 16 area with doors on front. My BIC is too deep to fit inside facing out. Can I put it in sideways? It is a forward firing spkr but I've heard bass is omnidirectional. Thought I could just open up the doors when its time to play a movie -- but the BIC would still fire sideways in the cabinet. Otherwise I may have to locate it off to the side not directly near the TV area. Help?

01-01-07, 11:12 PM	#7 \| Link
ggunnell Human Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Columbia, MO Posts: 1,016	How your cabinet will sound with a side-firing woofer in it can be determined only one way: Try it!