Industry Insiders Q&A MASTER THREAD [separate thread for Xbox/Add On & PS3]

[markrubin]

Industry Insiders Xbox and PS3 Q&A thread: : Xbox and PS3 ONLY Questions to Insiders only: only Insiders may answer

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Amirm
Amir Majidimehr
Corporate Vice President, Microsoft Corporation
Consumer Media Technology Group, Mobile and Embedded Devices Division
Microsoft (HD DVD insider)
VC-1 video codec insider in BD/HD DVD

Andy Pennell
Andy Pennell
HDi Developer, Microsoft
HD DVD Insider

benwaggoner
Ben Waggoner
Program Manager for Video Encoding, Professional Content Group, Microsoft
HD DVD and VC-1 Insider with Microsoft

bkilian
Bryan Kilian
Software Development Engineer in Test HDDVD team at Microsoft
Insider with Microsoft

Cjplay
name withheld upon request
Warner Bros HD-DVD Compressionist
Compressionist
[we miss you]

DTV Tivo Dealer
Robert Zohn
President of *********************
Advanced Digital Technology Dealer
TV Broadcast RF Systems Engineer
Retailer - B&M Storefront and Online Website

FilmMixer
Marc Fishman
Re-Recording Mixer, ToddAO Studios
Studio City, CA
Film Sound and Post Production Insider

JeffWilliams
Authoring and Compression
HD-DVD/Blu-ray Insider

jimby_99
name withheld upon request
VP, Advanced Technology for Universal Music Group
Production/Release supervisor of Blu-ray, HD DVD & DVD titles
Music/Video Industry Insider

kjack
Keith Jack
Director Product Marketing
Sigma Designs
BD and HD-DVD decoder supplier
BD/HD-DVD insider

MeridianHQ
name withheld upon request
Meridian Insider
Huntingdon England

PacificDisc
name withheld upon request
Sean - PacificDisc
HD DVD & Blu-ray Replication Insider

paidgeek
name withheld upon request
Sony Pictures BD Insider
Engineer

RBFilms
Richard J. Casey
R&B Films, Ltd.
Producers Guild of America, New Media Council
HD-DVD / BD Industry Insider

RDoherty
Richard E. Doherty
Director, Technology Strategy, Microsoft

Roger Dressler
Director, Business Development
Dolby Laboratories

shore
name withheld upon request
Blu-ray and HD-DVD Insider

Talkstr8t
name withheld upon request
Blu-ray Insider
Speaking solely for myself, not the BDA
Digital Television

walkamo
Christopher Walker
Product Planning and Marketing for Blu-ray and Optical Discs
Pioneer Electronics Sr Manager
Blu-ray Hardware Insider

zambelli
Alex Zambelli
Software Development Engineer in Test
Codec Team, Consumer Media Technology Group, Microsoft
VC-1 and WMV9 codec insider with Microsoft


Industry Insiders Xbox and PS3 Q&A thread: : Xbox and PS3 ONLY Questions to Insiders only: only Insiders may answer

[scaesare]

Can anybody shed light on a recently mentioned proposal for "Performance level 2 and level 3" definitions for HD DVD players?

[sknight1]

To any BDA Insider,


There is a lot of confusion (at least to me) regarding the different profiles utilized.

Could someone please:

1. Summarize what features are included in each profile.
2. State which currently available players (out of the box) can play which profiles.
3. If no player can play all profiles, state when (approx) this will occur.

Quite frankly, I am confused if I purchase a player today it *may/may not* be firmware upgradeable to play all profiles or not. I have read where a June 2007 date is when players will be available to play all profiles. Is this true?

Thank you and Merry Christmas to all.

Scott

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by sknight1

To any BDA Insider,


There is a lot of confusion (at least to me) regarding the different profiles utilized.

Could someone please:

1. Summarize what features are included in each profile.
2. State which currently available players (out of the box) can play which profiles.
3. If no player can play all profiles, state when (approx) this will occur.

Quite frankly, I am confused if I purchase a player today it *may/may not* be firmware upgradeable to play all profiles or not. I have read where a June 2007 date is when players will be available to play all profiles. Is this true?

Thank you and Merry Christmas to all.

Scott

Scott,

Please see the excerpt below from wikipedia regarding profiles and features for Blu-ray. This list appears to be accurate.

I am not aware of any players sold today that support anything beyond profile 1.0. Blu-ray requires a transition from version 1.0 to version 1.1 in June as you mention, but version 1.1 or 2.0 can be supported sooner at any player manfacturers choosing.

PS3 appears to be well positioned to support either profile 1.1 or 2.0 as it uses software as the basis of its movie playback. That said, there has been no official word from Sony Computer Entertainment regarding when or if such an update will be made available.


The BD-ROM specification defines four profiles of Blu-ray players. All video-based profiles are required to have a full implementation of BD-J. The 1st generation players are based on the BD-Video profile that does not require required support of certain features such as Picture-in-Picture, local storage, and network connections. Profiles 1.1 makes PIP, local storage and secondary audio mandatory. Profile 2 (BD-Live) adds network connectivity to the list of mandatory functions. Profile 3 is meant for an audio-only player and does not require video decoding or BD-J.

[High_Def DVD]

Now would like to have some inside information about some old news that i have read last year about the Blu-ray strategy and i qoute:

[/quote]"Had entered into agreements with every studio to provide discs at either cost or below variable cost for the next five years. So, the studios were very happy to take these assurances by Sony that they would not have to pay more for the discs than they would pay for HD-DVD discs."[quote]

The question that comes to my mind is: what will happen after 5 years, is the cost for BD movies going up for the consumers?

[Brimstone-1]

I have a question about movies in 3d. It's becomming more common for studios to release titles that take advantage of DLP projectors in movie theaters. In the home theater market, DLP sales are going very well and the technology is continuing to improve in quality and become more affordable.

So if a studio wanted to realease a 3d movie on HD-DVD/Blu-Ray how would this work? Would it require a totally seperate encode? Or could an option exist on the disc just to switch on "3d mode"? Does it effect file size? Are VC-1 and MPEG-4/AVC prepared to handle "3d" encoding? Can HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players even handle "3d" titles? What are the challenges?

If it does effect file size wouldn't this be a compelling reason to go with triple layer HD-DVD's?

I haven't read about this issue anywhere but with George Lucas working on a re-release of Star Wars in 3d I figure this is going to making a lot of headlines in the near future. Already we've seen "The nightmare before christmas" re-released into theaters taking advantage of 3d. And a lot of the newer CGI movies take advantage of this technology if a movie theater is equiped with a DLP projector.

[sknight1]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

...but version 1.1 or 2.0 can be supported sooner at any player manfacturers choosing.

Paid,

Thanks for the quick response. I now understand that all current players are Profile 1.0, but for example, is it possible that Pioneer could provide a Profile 2.0 firmware upgrade for the BDP-HD1?

Do you know if CEs as a practice will start stating which profiles their players support -- I think it would be beneficial to the consumer for them to do so.

Thank you.

[amirm]

Originally Posted by Brimstone-1

So if a studio wanted to realease a 3d movie on HD-DVD/Blu-Ray how would this work? Would it require a totally seperate encode?

Yes and depending on technology used for 3D, a lot more than that.

Or could an option exist on the disc just to switch on "3d mode"?

There are no explicit 3-D provisions in either format. So if one uses backward compatible systems for 3-D (e.g. red/green filters/glasses) then it would just work without switching to 3-D. Of course, the image will always be in that mode, unless alternate versions of the movie are on the same disc.

Does it effect file size?

Yes.

Are VC-1 and MPEG-4/AVC prepared to handle "3d" encoding?

Again, it depends on which technology. If you are backward compatible mode, then the 3-D aspect of the feature is transparent to the codec. If you are using explicit 3-D coding in either codec, then you are breaking compatibility with the standard and neither format will be able to handle such content.

Can HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players even handle "3d" titles? What are the challenges?

The best method is to code each video properly using its own stream and use differential coding method to save space. This, per above, requires new profiles of the codecs that do not exist in either format. So you are stuck with the traditional methods of putting both images on the same video frame and coding them that way.

If it does effect file size wouldn't this be a compelling reason to go with triple layer HD-DVD's?

Proper 3-D coding would not require substantially more storage. But that method is not available. Coding double images will take more storage but I suspect the concept will be too gimmicky to warrant format modifications to allow it.

I haven't read about this issue anywhere but with George Lucas working on a re-release of Star Wars in 3d I figure this is going to making a lot of headlines in the near future. Already we've seen "The nightmare before christmas" re-released into theaters taking advantage of 3d. And a lot of the newer CGI movies take advantage of this technology if a movie theater is equiped with a DLP projector.

There are a number of directors such as James Cameron who are pushing the envelop with 3-D production. The current target is the theater. The home version is not yet in play.

[Talkstr8t]

Originally Posted by sknight1

Thanks for the quick response. I now understand that all current players are Profile 1.0, but for example, is it possible that Pioneer could provide a Profile 2.0 firmware upgrade for the BDP-HD1?

In the absence of information that the hardware support simply isn't there, yes. I think the big question mark is whether the chipsets and supporting hardware can support PiP. I believe Keith has said their chipset does indeed support PiP, so that provides some hope.

Do you know if CEs as a practice will start stating which profiles their players support -- I think it would be beneficial to the consumer for them to do so.

I expect that we'll see a branding program around BD-Live content at some point, which implies players would also more clearly identify whether they're capable of supporting that content.

- Talk

[Paulidan]

I just had to respond to something that cjplay posted in his closed 'apologies' thread

I have to understand what you look for in a format as do many who read this. I've already taken a few on the chin thanks to Fettastic's Tier thread and several other posts/threads.

Dear God NO! Please do not tell me you are actually paying attention to that inane (as well as exceedingly ignorant) Tier system thread!
Besides BB, I'm not sure what you (cjplay) have worked on, but nothing I have seen so far from the HD DVD camp (with the possible exception of one import) has been what I would consider poorly encoded or compressed. The posters in the Tier thread are making evaluations and passing judgment on the actual films and the way they were shot- not the quality of the discs.
Jaggies due to 1080i original masters are one thing, but the majority of criticisms I see are of a much different stripe.

I am extremely worried that I'm gonna wake up some day and find every catalog title I love has been digitally graded, with contrast and colors pumped up in an effort to approximate the aesthetic flavor of the day and grain suppressed - all to appeal to the most ignorant segment of the consumer block.

[Head Shot]

Question for CJ

Are you giving proper merit to the Tier list?

If so, what portion of the criticism are you paying due credit?

I am asking this because I haven't been there for some time and that it had been less relevant for me.

[Adam Tyner]

Originally Posted by Paulidan

Besides BB, I'm not sure what you (cjplay) have worked on, but nothing I have seen so far from the HD DVD camp (with the possible exception of one import) has been what I would consider poorly encoded or compressed.

A response, worded as a question to fit the thread:

I get the impression that it takes a fair amount of TLC to get the most out of VC-1 encodes (and I'm writing that purely as a lead-in to a question, not as any sort of criticism). How are larger projects, particularly TV-on-DVD sets, approached compared to feature-length films?

I ask because I watched the fifth season of Smallville on HD DVD a week or two ago, and the discs with five episodes a piece suffered from some brief but still very distracting hiccups. I can provide exact timecode references for some of these, if you're curious. Out of 80-someodd discs, I'd never seen anything like that on HD DVD before.

Because the two discs in the Smallville set with fewer episodes didn't immediately leap out at me with similar problems, I was left wondering if it was a combination of too much material on the disc and not enough time on the part of the compressionist to coax the best out of the encoder. Interestingly, the most glaring of these issues seemed localized to one episode on each disc rather than spread throughout.

Anyway, as a TV season set fanatic, I'm just curious if this could mean anything going forward.

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by High_Def DVD

Now would like to have some inside information about some old news that i have read last year about the Blu-ray strategy and i qoute:

"Had entered into agreements with every studio to provide discs at either cost or below variable cost for the next five years. So, the studios were very happy to take these assurances by Sony that they would not have to pay more for the discs than they would pay for HD-DVD discs."

The question that comes to my mind is: what will happen after 5 years, is the cost for BD movies going up for the consumers?

I don't have any specific information about replication costs for BD, but if BD follows a curve anything like DVD, replication costs will be a small concern after 5 years.

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by sknight1

Paid,

Thanks for the quick response. I now understand that all current players are Profile 1.0, but for example, is it possible that Pioneer could provide a Profile 2.0 firmware upgrade for the BDP-HD1?

Do you know if CEs as a practice will start stating which profiles their players support -- I think it would be beneficial to the consumer for them to do so.

Thank you.

I can't speak for the hardware companies ability to upgrade their players through software, I just don't know what each one is up to or what their hardware is capable of. CES is an excellent opportunity to get close to people at these companies that you would not otherwise have access to. If you can make it, I suggest you ask them directly.

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by Brimstone-1

I have a question about movies in 3d. It's becomming more common for studios to release titles that take advantage of DLP projectors in movie theaters. In the home theater market, DLP sales are going very well and the technology is continuing to improve in quality and become more affordable.

So if a studio wanted to realease a 3d movie on HD-DVD/Blu-Ray how would this work? Would it require a totally seperate encode? Or could an option exist on the disc just to switch on "3d mode"? Does it effect file size? Are VC-1 and MPEG-4/AVC prepared to handle "3d" encoding? Can HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players even handle "3d" titles? What are the challenges?

If it does effect file size wouldn't this be a compelling reason to go with triple layer HD-DVD's?

I haven't read about this issue anywhere but with George Lucas working on a re-release of Star Wars in 3d I figure this is going to making a lot of headlines in the near future. Already we've seen "The nightmare before christmas" re-released into theaters taking advantage of 3d. And a lot of the newer CGI movies take advantage of this technology if a movie theater is equiped with a DLP projector.

In theory it would be reasonably straightforward to use 1080 60i video to carry a left and right eye signal (this has already been done in SD as I recall). The problem is that monitors would have to be available that can display images one field at a time and flat panels don't work that way. My guess is that the biggest hurdle will not be disc capacity or limitations in the format but rather the display and ocular devices.

[Penton-Man]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Closest Thing So Far……………………….

Phillips announced at CES 2006 that they plan to introduce a high-definition television that can show a “3D experience” in 2008. Since then I think they’ve been doing tests with focus groups. I don’t know what the newest status on the launch timetable is.

They have software that will look at the 2D source and create a “depth map” in real time so that consumers visualize a 3D experience from a 2D high-definition disc (encoded in MPEG2) and their TVs, at least that’s how I understand it.

________________________________________
Studio Insider

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Brimstone-1

I haven't read about this issue anywhere but with George Lucas working on a re-release of Star Wars in 3d I figure this is going to making a lot of headlines in the near future.

The way that’s being done is that a company called In-Three (in Agoura Hills, CA) has a “Dimensionalization” process by which they are using the original source material as the “left-eye” image and then creating a virtual right-eye image somehow in the post-production process.

________________________________________
Studio Insider

[am1001]

Hi Paidgeek

Thanks for your continued participation is this forum.

With the Europe release of PS3 coming in the spring, there will be many more potential blu-ray movie purchasers coming to market.

However the region coding of disks at present is very scatter gun.

Don't know if you are familair with this website but it lists those title which have region coding, and those without.

http://bluray.lindsite.dk/

A good compromise system would be for new releases to be region coded if required, but ALL catalogue releases to not have region restrictions.

According to the website, well the good news is that a majority of titles released on bluray in the states will work on european players.

Do you agree on the need for a more consistent region coding system for catalogue releases? Something that offers some flexibility for consumers, and gives consumers better access to catalogue titles. If so, can you see if we can have a clearer system where ALL catalogue releases are not region restricted. Fox, Disney, and Buena Vista, and some Sony titles which are clearly catalogue eg Dinosaur, Black Hawk Down, League of Extraordinary gentlemen, Gone in 60 seconds have region restrictions.

It would be great as the format is beginning to grow for this situation to be improved.

[amirm]

Originally Posted by scaesare

Can anybody shed light on a recently mentioned proposal for "Performance level 2 and level 3" definitions for HD DVD players?

Let me start by saying that I only have sketchy information on this as these are *new* proposals to DVD Forum regarding HD DVD. And with my folks on vacation, I am not going to pester them much for details (I stopped going to DVD Forum a long time ago so I don't always have up to date info of the not-approved things).

Anyway, as you know, there is a feature axis where HD DVD fully mandates all features. This is called profile 1. All discs and players comply with this profile.

The other proposed profiles aim at standardizing the other axis, namely performance. As you can imagine, there is a huge gulf of performance between a PC and game console, and stand-alone players. The former devices have incredible processing and graphics power to display what amounts to 1080p real-time graphics (think about how many games run at full 1080p resolution and that gives you some perspective on how much performance we are talking about, albeit in 2-D).

Needless to say, there could be infinite variations in device performance as there is today in PCs. Consoles have shown though that this huge variation is not a good thing when it comes to generating reliable performance. In the same vein, these proposals aim to create some steps that devices could try to comply with, so that content owners don’t have to target the full range of device performances.

Again, let me emphasize that these are proposals, not approved specifications. Today, all players must comply with one and only profile, as do discs. Given the close working relationship of companies involved in HD DVD development and software/hardware, the performance axis is being managed as a de-facto system, as we know what to test on, including unreleased products. Moving into the future though, these profiles may be useful, due to factors mentioned above.

Finally, it should be clear that both formats have the same considerations here as the PS3 and Samsung are pretty far away from each other performance wise. Would be interesting to hear from Talk/Paid how they are addressing this. The other thing to note that DVD Forum proceedings a pretty public so you hear about the “soup being made” in the form of proposals like this . As such, I wouldn’t get too excited about anything until it is approved. Indeed, at some point, the entire spec for HD DVD was up for grabs!

[scaesare]

Originally Posted by amirm

Let me start by saying that I only have sketchy information on this as these are *new* proposals to DVD Forum regarding HD DVD. And with my folks on vacation, I am not going to pester them much for details (I stopped going to DVD Forum a long time ago so I don't always have up to date info of the not-approved things).

Anyway, as you know, there is a feature axis where HD DVD fully mandates all features. This is called profile 1. All discs and players comply with this profile.

The other proposed profiles aim at standardizing the other axis, namely performance. As you can imagine, there is a huge gulf of performance between a PC and game console, and stand-alone players. The former devices have incredible processing and graphics power to display what amounts to 1080p real-time graphics (think about how many games run at full 1080p resolution and that gives you some perspective on how much performance we are talking about, albeit in 2-D).

Needless to say, there could be infinite variations in device performance as there is today in PCs. Consoles have shown though that this huge variation is not a good thing when it comes to generating reliable performance. In the same vein, these proposals aim to create some steps that devices could try to comply with, so that content owners don’t have to target the full range of device performances.

Again, let me emphasize that these are proposals, not approved specifications. Today, all players must comply with one and only profile, as do discs. Given the close working relationship of companies involved in HD DVD development and software/hardware, the performance axis is being managed as a de-facto system, as we know what to test on, including unreleased products. Moving into the future though, these profiles may be useful, due to factors mentioned above.

Finally, it should be clear that both formats have the same considerations here as the PS3 and Samsung are pretty far away from each other performance wise. Would be interesting to hear from Talk/Paid how they are addressing this. The other thing to note that DVD Forum proceedings a pretty public so you hear about the “soup being made” in the form of proposals like this . As such, I wouldn’t get too excited about anything until it is approved. Indeed, at some point, the entire spec for HD DVD was up for grabs!

Thanks Amir.

(I really wanted to simply say "Thanks", but I'll ask a question in order to stay true to the thread...)

Would you let us know about any further devlopments on this front you become aware of, as well as encourage anybody on your team who may be attending to take back the message that, should the DVD forum do this, consumer education is paramount?

[amirm]

Originally Posted by scaesare

Thanks Amir.

(I really wanted to simply say "Thanks", but I'll ask a question in order to stay true to the thread...)

My pleasure.

Would you let us know about any further devlopments on this front you become aware of, as well as encourage anybody on your team who may be attending to take back the message that, should the DVD forum do this, consumer education is paramount?

Of course. And this is part of the system anyway as the dealings of DVD forum are a matter of public record. And if we don't publicize them, the BD members that are also DVD Forum members, will surely do the job for us .

One caveat to above though. The work of some working groups are confidential until they get proposed up the chain and get discussed/approved/dissapproved there. Those details can not be disclosed of course until the latter stages.

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by am1001

Hi Paidgeek

Thanks for your continued participation is this forum.

With the Europe release of PS3 coming in the spring, there will be many more potential blu-ray movie purchasers coming to market.

However the region coding of disks at present is very scatter gun.

Don't know if you are familair with this website but it lists those title which have region coding, and those without.

http://bluray.lindsite.dk/

A good compromise system would be for new releases to be region coded if required, but ALL catalogue releases to not have region restrictions.

According to the website, well the good news is that a majority of titles released on bluray in the states will work on european players.

Do you agree on the need for a more consistent region coding system for catalogue releases? Something that offers some flexibility for consumers, and gives consumers better access to catalogue titles. If so, can you see if we can have a clearer system where ALL catalogue releases are not region restricted. Fox, Disney, and Buena Vista, and some Sony titles which are clearly catalogue eg Dinosaur, Black Hawk Down, League of Extraordinary gentlemen, Gone in 60 seconds have region restrictions.

It would be great as the format is beginning to grow for this situation to be improved.

Sony Pictures currently does not plan to restrict playback of catalog titles. This may influence other studios to do the same if consumer response to SPE titles is positive on this basis. The major studios each have different approaches on how they run their business. I agree that more consistency is needed, but judging from the link, we are headed in the right direction.

[deez]

Amirm:
I realize you cannot specify what companies plan to manufacture HD DVD players but can you take an educated guess on a date when we could be seeing these players from other manufacturers??

When will we also see DTS advanced audio from HD DVD's?


Can you give us any indication when we will see new FW updates that address load times and dvi issues for first gen products?

Will Toshiba allow customer Downloading of future FW updates via an external pc for burning to cd??

[amirm]

Originally Posted by deez

Amirm:
I realize you cannot specify what companies plan to manufacture HD DVD players but can you take an educated guess on a date when we could be seeing these players from other manufacturers??

I am sorry but I really can not pre-announce future events with our competitors reading the thread.

When will we also see DTS advanced audio from HD DVD's?

You mean DTS lossless? If so, Studio Canal titles in Europe already used them.

Can you give us any indication when we will see new FW updates that address load times and dvi issues for first gen products?

This is for Toshiba to answer. Load times though, is unlikely to improve in a major way.

Will Toshiba allow customer Downloading of future FW updates via an external pc for burning to cd??

People have already been doing this. We have asked Toshiba to make this more official though. Hopefully they will do so.

[stanger89]

Simple question for the insiders, any insiders:

Where's Managed Copy?

ok two questions:

Is AACS ever going to be finalized?

[amirm]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Simple question for the insiders, any insiders:

Where's Managed Copy?

Having Christmas off. Probably hanging out in Hawaii or something.

ok two questions:

Is AACS ever going to be finalized?

Probably not. We don't get along with content folks. They hate the CE guys. And CE guys think IT guys are out to eat their lunch. So no, we won't have an agreement.



Seriously, negotiations continue, progress is being made. But the crutch of having an interim agreement means talks keep on going, going and going...

[deez]

Thank You

[jsaliga]

Forgive me if this has already been asked. This is directed mainly at Amir but any insider who can answer this is welcome to do so.

There is currently a discussion taking place in one of the digital projector forums:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9258509

The above post quotes a four year old thread that in part discusses the actual resolvable detail in D5 master tapes, and the number that was kicked around was about 800~1300 lines of horizontal resolution. I think that number came from a FAQ by Joe Kane, who never participated directly in that discussion. I don't think the question was ever settled definitively so I thought I would bring it here to the insiders.

Making obvious allowances for a wide variety of filming techniques that would impact how much apparent detail we see in the film sources we have, just how much horizontal resolution is really in the HD we are getting in HD DVD and Blu-Ray? Is it really 800~1300 lines or is it higher? If D5 master tapes only go out to 1300 lines then what is the limiting factor? Is it the D5 system, optics, or something else? If it is not a limitation of the master then under ideal conditions how much horizontal resolution are we getting in these new HD formats?

Thanks in advance for your answer.

--Jerome

[BenDover]

Originally Posted by amirm

Let me start by saying that I only have sketchy information on this as these are *new* proposals to DVD Forum regarding HD DVD. And with my folks on vacation, I am not going to pester them much for details (I stopped going to DVD Forum a long time ago so I don't always have up to date info of the not-approved things).

Anyway, as you know, there is a feature axis where HD DVD fully mandates all features. This is called profile 1. All discs and players comply with this profile.

The other proposed profiles aim at standardizing the other axis, namely performance. As you can imagine, there is a huge gulf of performance between a PC and game console, and stand-alone players. The former devices have incredible processing and graphics power to display what amounts to 1080p real-time graphics (think about how many games run at full 1080p resolution and that gives you some perspective on how much performance we are talking about, albeit in 2-D).

Needless to say, there could be infinite variations in device performance as there is today in PCs. Consoles have shown though that this huge variation is not a good thing when it comes to generating reliable performance. In the same vein, these proposals aim to create some steps that devices could try to comply with, so that content owners don’t have to target the full range of device performances.

Again, let me emphasize that these are proposals, not approved specifications. Today, all players must comply with one and only profile, as do discs. Given the close working relationship of companies involved in HD DVD development and software/hardware, the performance axis is being managed as a de-facto system, as we know what to test on, including unreleased products. Moving into the future though, these profiles may be useful, due to factors mentioned above.

Finally, it should be clear that both formats have the same considerations here as the PS3 and Samsung are pretty far away from each other performance wise. Would be interesting to hear from Talk/Paid how they are addressing this. The other thing to note that DVD Forum proceedings a pretty public so you hear about the “soup being made” in the form of proposals like this . As such, I wouldn’t get too excited about anything until it is approved. Indeed, at some point, the entire spec for HD DVD was up for grabs!

would it be fair to speculate that such *new proposals* are being made by/in light of ce companies now interested in developing/manufacturing hd dvd players and/or universal players?

[amirm]

Originally Posted by BenDover

would it be fair to speculate that such *new proposals* are being made by/in light of ce companies now interested in developing/manufacturing hd dvd players and/or universal players?

Let me provide an answer but warn you beforehand that it is going to confuse you if you take it too literally . The answer is partially yes. But remember what I said before the answer and let me leave it at that .

The other group interested in this is content owners who want to know what level of performance they can expect. This part of the answer you can read without second guessing .