Getting a good, used turntable

[mattdp]

One of my friends (an all out music geek) is looking to purchase a turntable for his system.

Like me, he's a [nearly] broke highschool student who is going off to college next year, so this has to be done on a budget and thus he's using his $145 in Christmas money for the purchase.

He's got an older RCA HTB set up in his room, and the thing obviously doesn't have a phono stage.


After doing a little looking, I've determined that the $100 tables made by brands like Sony and Radio Shack are just.... cheap, and probably not worth it. Getting a decent audiophile model, like a Project III is a little out of budget.

I did happen to find a good selection of 80's and late 70's turntables on e-Bay for $30-$80.

I've decided this is probably the route to go for something that sounds decent and won't break the bank.

This all leaves me with two questions:

1)Which brands should he start looking at?
Any brands/models he should avoid?
I was thinking something along the lines of a Pioneer or a good Sony model.

2)What's a good, inexpensive phono stage?

[EC]

For used tables, I would look at Rega 2 or 3 with their tonearm although these will probably be over the budget. These are very simple tables with no suspension so little can go wrong with them. As for phono stages, NAD and Creek make reasonably priced and good phono stages.

[mattdp]

Reasonably priced, as in under $100?

[EC]

used maybe for the phono stages

[Rupert]

There are a couple new turntables available now with a built-in phono pre-amp. If you can stretch the budget a little, Denon makes one that looks good:

http://www.hotbuyselectronics.com/it...item_id=112960

Teac also makes one under a hundred dollars that includes a pre-amp.

[mattdp]

Aren't the built in phono stages pretty crappy, or are some worth using?

[whoaru99]

I think what people are trying to say is that there isn't too much out there under $100 when you start figuring in a couple factors.

Even if you can find a decent used TT under a hundred, chances are better than average, IMO, that you will need a new stylus or cartridge. A stylus is roughly $25-$30 at a minimum and a complete cartridge probably starts at $30-$40 on the low end and can go WAY up from there. Then, throw in the price of a phone pre and you are likely well over budget.

That does not even consider the shipping side of things and the possibility of a poorly packaged (used) TT being damaged in shipment.

[ChrisWiggles]

One of my friends (an all out music geek) is looking to purchase a turntable for his system.

Like me, he's a [nearly] broke highschool student who is going off to college next year, so this has to be done on a budget and thus he's using his $145 in Christmas money for the purchase.

What is his goal for the TT?

The reason I ask is I might suggest getting a DJ turntable if music listening is not the only thing on the horizon. It's fun to play around with mixing/scratching/making music so that may or may not be of interest. If that is not an interest in any way, then ignore my idea, but it's something that seems might be a natural fit.

It's kind of why I haven't bought a turntable yet, because I know if I did I'd have to get three... 2 for mixing, and an audiophile one for listening. Plus huge investments in records.

[mattdp]

We are by no means mixer/scratcher type people. The goal at hand is purely music listening.

(Although I have to admit, I did try scratching to see what it sounded like on my belt drive, and it didn't work very well. The table takes too long to speed up after a cold start)

Believe it or not, I've got another (higschool) friend who has a turntable, and were all just music listeners. So yea... that's three teenage turntable owners who don't scratch.

BTW, "huge investment in records"? Uh... been to a thrift store lately?

[Rupert]

Here's a refurb Denon with phono-preamp for $99.:

http://www.secondact.biz/product/DP29FRB

[mattdp]

Hmm... That's actually my TT's older brother (I have the DP-26F).

It just hit me... he's got a phono pre-amp built into an older receiver he no longer uses.

So, we just need a TT.

[gillcup]

Originally Posted by mattdp

BTW, "huge investment in records"? Uh... been to a thrift store lately?

Finding decent LP's at a thrift store is a lot like winning a lottery; Apparently, someone actually does win but it's just never me! I go all the time in hopes of finding a goldmine of great LP's but I've only gotten maybe 10 LP's worth keeping. And none of those LP's are exactly 5 star albums. The thrift stores in my area are always well stocked with Easy Listening favorites like Barbara Streisand, Herb Alpert, Laurence Welk, Montavani...etc and soft rock like Dan Fogelberg, Linda Ronstadt, America, Loggins and Messina...etc (in nicely scratched up condition too) and cheesy Xmas albums but I've never found a single album by Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, The Who, Velvet Undergroud, Miles Davis, John Coltrane...(you get the picture).

Sounds like your local thrift stores must be a lot better stocked than mine. I have gotten enjoyable LP's from local used record stores at very low prices. But this is mostly by less popular groups like Styx, Jackson Browne, ELO, Paul McCartney, Elton John, Foreigner, Kansas, Police, Heart...etc. But the more sought-after artists, such as the ones mentioned above, are pretty hard to get in good condition on early pressings without paying a lot.

[YerDugliness]

I have a record collection that exceeds 600. I do play them on a regular basis, but I have a fiarly high end TT from the 70's, an Empire 698, outfitted with a very good quality cartridge that can track at 1 gram of downforce. In my opinion, it is folly to attempt to recover good sound from a vinyl record with anything less--the lower end TT's have a cartridge stylus that will not be able to follow the undulations of the groove, particularly on good quality vinyl like Original Master Recordings or (extremely hard to find, but incredibly quiet if you can find a decoder) dbx records. Why spend the $$ for a good record and play it with a stylus that will wipe out the upper octave the first time you play it?

Not trying to be rude, just pointing out that the technology of the 60's and 70's left something to be desired as far as durability is concerned. I still treat my vinyl records with an anti-friction product called "Sound Guard" and sweep them every time before I play them with a Discwasher. I make a mark on the album sleeve for every time I play them. Once they get to 25 plays, even with all that care, I try to record them to a CD and use the CD for less quiet settings--it is the only way to preserve the unique, warm sound that vinyl has, which in my opinion can only be truly enjoyed in a quiet environment.

Obviously, in my opinion it would be better for you to save your $$ until you can invest in a TT/cartridge that will preserve the sound on your vinyl records. As for a phono-preamp, you can find them all the way from around $20 to over $2,000. Do you want to buy expensive, tube based Class A equipment or solid state electronic equipment, which is lower priced but probably achieves as good SQ as the Class A stuff?

I've had better luck getting good quality records over the internet, where you can get an objective rating on the quality of the vinyl. Much more expensive, yes, but if you go to the expense of getting a good quality TT/cartridge the difference will be appreciated.

Doug