Will SD CRT be harmed by viewing digital 16:9 fmts?

jhallgren · 12-31-06, 03:48 PM

Sorry if thread topic was a bit confusing, but tried to put as much info as possible..

The question relates to: If I get a SD 4:3 set and watch programs that are on digital channels, it would seem (to this newbie) that many are (and more in future will be) in 16:9 format and thus cause black bars on top/bottom in order to be able to see entire pix...in the Toshiba manual I've read online, it specifically warns about doing this too often...and Samsung says limit this to 15% of total usage per week!

But Sony doesn't say this in their manual, so are they better quality and not subject to problems? They do warn about games and logos and such..but not the bars, as far as I can see...

I can see burn-in occuring with logos and such, but I don't quite get how black bars would cause this...

Thanks!

Ratman · 12-31-06, 04:34 PM

Doesn't matter...
Prolonged static images (or lack of...) on a CRT or plasma can/will cause "burn in" wheter it's 4:3 on a 16:9 TV or the opposite.

King-Reyes · 12-31-06, 05:10 PM

There is no burn-ins in Sony's CRT's

biker19 · 12-31-06, 05:13 PM

Given all the commercials and other SD material mixed with the 16:9 HD stuff you're unlikely to have burn in issues.

Of course makers are going to put some low limits on static images - so they can get out of burn in claims.

Ratman · 01-01-07, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King-Reyes

There is no burn-ins in Sony's CRT's

How so? Do they use magic phosphors?

jhallgren · 01-01-07, 10:13 AM

I was just quite surprised to see the 15 percent figure in Samsung manual...like how many folks are going to keep track of hours in each format? And then go...OOPS! I can't watch this format anymore this week as I'm now up to 20%? Yea, right...NOT!

adavis720 · 01-01-07, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratman

How so? Do they use magic phosphors?

King-Reyes · 01-01-07, 01:27 PM

Because it's just is from my experience.... Magic phosphor your ass.

adavis720 · 01-01-07, 02:30 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphor_burn-in

ALL phospher based displays can be affected by uneven phospher wear. Period.
It doesn't matter who the manufacturer is. The statement that a particular brand of CRT televisions do not suffer from burn in is completly incorrect.

MechanicalMan · 01-03-07, 07:47 AM

The examples that I've seen of CRT burn-in are extreme, and frankly, I don't worry about it at all. Of course, any new 4:3 CRT TV should have a zoom feature so you can just watch in full screen and not worry about this. I have a Sony 4:3 SDTV, and I prefer to watch widescreen programming as-is, so that is what I do. I'll eat my hat if it ever develops a noticeable burn-in problem.

It's pretty much unrelated to this topic, but just FYI, 4:3 CRTs don't all display 16:9 programming the same way. Some TVs compress the image vertically so that all of the scan lines are used for the 16:9 content you are viewing. I recommend that you buy a TV with that feature. There is a very noticeable difference in PQ.

RalphArch · 01-03-07, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King-Reyes

Because it's just is from my experience.... Magic phosphor your ass.

This is a second thread where you have jumped in with your "experience" and then started getting into a hissy fit. Please stop it (NO matter what I will not respond to a further post from you) as I was initially misled by your response.

The only reason I responded here is because I am interested in the potential effect on my SONY 36KDxs HD set.

This set smart sizes a 1080i or 720p signal into a 16x9 window. Unfortunatedly he tv's zoom controls result in overscan of a 4:3 window so that's not a particularly attractive option.

I have been resorting to watching S-video feed for 4:3 material on HD shows - but whether or not burn in happens is certainly another factor.

I suppose in the long run won't matter that much because the region of most interest will be the 16:9 window and I assume that will not be affected by the burn in?

justsc · 01-03-07, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RalphArch

This is a second thread where you have jumped in with your "experience" and then started getting into a hissy fit. Please stop it (NO matter what I will not respond to a further post from you) as I was initially misled by your response.

Amen.

Quote:

I suppose in the long run won't matter that much because the region of most interest will be the 16:9 window and I assume that will not be affected by the burn in?

I've wondered about this also. But I can't see anyone leaving a 4:3 set at 16:9 long enough for it to suffer burn-in, unless it's gaming where static images can be at certain places on the screen for very long periods of time.

Penarin · 01-03-07, 02:13 PM

I've been using SD CRTs for about 20 years now (video games, widescreen movies, camcorders, you name it), and the only burn in I've ever seen was on a 21" CRT TV. Because I used to leave the on-screen clock on whenever the TV was on. And I'm talking about a period of years. I was warned not to do it, but live and learn.

By the way, that 15 year old 21" TV is now out in the garage- still works fine, and looks fine. There's just this faint little blur down in the left hand corner where the clock used to glow.

In other words, don't worry about it, and don't leave the onscreen clock on

Ratman · 01-03-07, 02:34 PM

On a 4:3 TV (20 years old) watching 4:3 material... no one will see "burn-in", since all of the phosphors are aging "gracefully" over the entire display area.

With "black bars" being presented, the phophors will not age. Therefore, over time, you can/will see symptoms.

Without following proper setup/precautions, you will see the effect over time. I'm not saying you have to be obsessive, but just be aware.

Allan Jayne · 01-04-07, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King-Reyes

There is no burn-ins in Sony's CRT's ... your ass.

Absolutely wrong.

If you keep the contrast at halfway or below you should not notice burn in for many years no matter what you watch.

Video hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm

12-31-06, 03:48 PM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
jhallgren Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Clearwater FL Posts: 58	Will SD CRT be harmed by viewing digital 16:9 fmts? Sorry if thread topic was a bit confusing, but tried to put as much info as possible.. The question relates to: If I get a SD 4:3 set and watch programs that are on digital channels, it would seem (to this newbie) that many are (and more in future will be) in 16:9 format and thus cause black bars on top/bottom in order to be able to see entire pix...in the Toshiba manual I've read online, it specifically warns about doing this too often...and Samsung says limit this to 15% of total usage per week! But Sony doesn't say this in their manual, so are they better quality and not subject to problems? They do warn about games and logos and such..but not the bars, as far as I can see... I can see burn-in occuring with logos and such, but I don't quite get how black bars would cause this... Thanks!

01-03-07, 07:47 AM	#10 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
MechanicalMan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 420	The examples that I've seen of CRT burn-in are extreme, and frankly, I don't worry about it at all. Of course, any new 4:3 CRT TV should have a zoom feature so you can just watch in full screen and not worry about this. I have a Sony 4:3 SDTV, and I prefer to watch widescreen programming as-is, so that is what I do. I'll eat my hat if it ever develops a noticeable burn-in problem. It's pretty much unrelated to this topic, but just FYI, 4:3 CRTs don't all display 16:9 programming the same way. Some TVs compress the image vertically so that all of the scan lines are used for the 16:9 content you are viewing. I recommend that you buy a TV with that feature. There is a very noticeable difference in PQ.

12-31-06, 04:34 PM	#2 \| Link
Ratman AVS Special Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Collingswood, N.J. Posts: 8,232	Doesn't matter... Prolonged static images (or lack of...) on a CRT or plasma can/will cause "burn in" wheter it's 4:3 on a 16:9 TV or the opposite.

12-31-06, 05:10 PM	#3 \| Link
King-Reyes Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 127	There is no burn-ins in Sony's CRT's

12-31-06, 05:13 PM	#4 \| Link
biker19 AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: McLean, VA Posts: 3,377	Given all the commercials and other SD material mixed with the 16:9 HD stuff you're unlikely to have burn in issues. Of course makers are going to put some low limits on static images - so they can get out of burn in claims.

01-01-07, 10:13 AM	#6 \| Link
jhallgren Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Clearwater FL Posts: 58	I was just quite surprised to see the 15 percent figure in Samsung manual...like how many folks are going to keep track of hours in each format? And then go...OOPS! I can't watch this format anymore this week as I'm now up to 20%? Yea, right...NOT!

01-01-07, 01:27 PM	#8 \| Link
King-Reyes Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 127	Because it's just is from my experience.... Magic phosphor your ass.

01-01-07, 02:30 PM	#9 \| Link
adavis720 Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 583	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphor_burn-in ALL phospher based displays can be affected by uneven phospher wear. Period. It doesn't matter who the manufacturer is. The statement that a particular brand of CRT televisions do not suffer from burn in is completly incorrect.

01-03-07, 02:13 PM	#13 \| Link
Penarin Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 77	I've been using SD CRTs for about 20 years now (video games, widescreen movies, camcorders, you name it), and the only burn in I've ever seen was on a 21" CRT TV. Because I used to leave the on-screen clock on whenever the TV was on. And I'm talking about a period of years. I was warned not to do it, but live and learn. By the way, that 15 year old 21" TV is now out in the garage- still works fine, and looks fine. There's just this faint little blur down in the left hand corner where the clock used to glow. In other words, don't worry about it, and don't leave the onscreen clock on

01-03-07, 02:34 PM	#14 \| Link
Ratman AVS Special Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Collingswood, N.J. Posts: 8,232	On a 4:3 TV (20 years old) watching 4:3 material... no one will see "burn-in", since all of the phosphors are aging "gracefully" over the entire display area. With "black bars" being presented, the phophors will not age. Therefore, over time, you can/will see symptoms. Without following proper setup/precautions, you will see the effect over time. I'm not saying you have to be obsessive, but just be aware.