new HS420 owner

Juventas · 01-04-07, 02:08 AM

Thanks to these forums, I decided on a KV34HS420. For some reason they're absurdly hard to find Canada. Every Sony dealer (I phoned about 40 stores from 6 different chains) tells you they're "discontinued long ago", but behold mine is stamped with a manufacturing date of 2006 and came in Canadian packaging. If any other Canadians are interested I got mine The Brick's 1-800 number for CND$1186.

I was quite surprised by how fabulous an SD picture can look, the DVD player on component at 480p looks better than anything I've seen on demo in the box stores. I no longer feel any urge to be an early HDDVD/Blueray adopter.

However just today I got the Mac Mini hooked up with DVI>HDMI and immediately noticed a lot of problems. Under any resolution (I'm probably sticking with 1280x768) the picture is out of focus (the best way I can describe it) the closer it gets to the edge. I can test this by dragging an labeled icon around and it goes from legible to illegible. Even more worrisome is that if I open a large window filled with white, the edges transform, lowering in contrast and brightness, and becoming more legible.

What is this problem? Can it be fixed in the service codes? Should this be done under warranty, or should I attempt it myself? All help is appreciated!

soloist3 · 01-04-07, 01:25 PM

Although HD CRT's look better than anything else out there as far as picture quality goes they are not designed to be used as computer monitors, the stripe pitch and bandwidth of the video amplifier are not good enough to resolve that resolution. I think that you could get away with something around 800x600 or an equivalent 16:9 resolution but not anything higher.

soloist3 · 01-04-07, 01:29 PM

I forgot to mention this in my last post but one thing that you can do to make text more legible, even at lower resolutions, is lower the contrast by about half; TV's are much brighter than computer monitors, text being displayed at typical TV contrast is almost always going to be distorted (that is why the majority of super high resolution CRT computer monitors rarely make good HDTV's)

Juventas · 01-04-07, 04:04 PM

The middle of the screen is acceptable quality, can it not be fixed so that the edges are similar to the middle?

justsc · 01-04-07, 05:06 PM

You won't get it the way you want it.

I've got this set and tried hard to get my Apple 17" laptop to really look nice with it. No dice. I tried everything. Essentially the best PQ I got was using 480p, contrast real low and all edge enhancement (DRC) turned off. Try contrast (Picture) at around 28-31 tics (a little below the mid point). If it's a requirement to be used as a computer monitor you are better off looking at LCD displays.

I assume you are trying to use DVI to HDMI? If so, try a lower bandwidth cable (e.g. composite or S Video).

Juventas · 01-06-07, 03:00 AM

I just found this informative post, which coincidently features you two fine folks:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9340179

soloist3's explanations are surprising and disappointing, but make a lot sense. I only wished I had read that before I made my purchase. It's pretty key information that you don't see spelled out many places.

On the brighter side, I've made some progress with my picture quality. I started with the "Pro" picture setting, which says its for monitors and has the lowest default Picture (aka contrast) level. Knocking it down another few more notches is good advice. At first this seems dim, but when I compare it to my two professional PC CRT monitors, it really is normal for a monitor.

After that I took a different route than your advice. Using S-Video really didn't turn out to be a good idea (perhaps this is because the Mac Mini uses a DVI>S-Video adapter?). I continued using my DVI>HDMI cable and chose the 1280x720p resolution. I then enlarged the text size, icon size, and dock size which in OS X scales beautifully. There are still parts of the GUI that don't enlarge, but for my purposes it will be fine. Back on the TV, I noticed my DRC option was disabled (I assume this is always the case with HDMI and progressive video?), but turning on the Velocity Modulation made a huge improvement. I chose "medium" but "high" but be considered better by some. I also tried setting Sharpness to max, which has an interesting result of making some text better, and others worse.

I should mention that the end result is still poor if used as a monitor for normal PC use, but in my case I use Front Row the majority of the time, and the rest is just file management and web browsing, which is now usable. Also, for those who don't already know, using ctrl+scroll wheel will scale everything in OS X on the fly, and ctrl++ will scale text in Firefox. Lastly, in Front Row all of this is pretty much moot, it looks just fine with standard settings, especially once you start playing video. Perhaps the biggest advantage of running DVI>HDMI is the simple fact that you can run unstretched widescreen resolutions, and play trailers and movies without zooming.

justsc · 01-06-07, 03:34 PM

I bet the problem with using S Video is exactly what you guessed (the adapter).

And you are correct that when using a digital interface DRC is disabled. What I had meant to write was to experiment with ClearEdge. Exactly what you did. I find that with some text a higher setting works nice, with other text, or typeset, or fonts, it looks best with less. Just have to experiment. Sharpness is just another form of scan verocity modulation (edge enhancement).

What I do with OS X is use a two-key combination by pressing the Command and Option keys together and hitting the + key to scale the picture closer (bigger). It will also scale the interface (menu, etc). Once scaled you can use the mouse or trackpad to move the image around to see what you wish to see. This has to first be enabled in the Universal Access System Preferences Pane under the "Seeing" tab. This works in all programs and the Finder.

You did some real good work here.

01-04-07, 02:08 AM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
Juventas Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 39	new HS420 owner Thanks to these forums, I decided on a KV34HS420. For some reason they're absurdly hard to find Canada. Every Sony dealer (I phoned about 40 stores from 6 different chains) tells you they're "discontinued long ago", but behold mine is stamped with a manufacturing date of 2006 and came in Canadian packaging. If any other Canadians are interested I got mine The Brick's 1-800 number for CND$1186. I was quite surprised by how fabulous an SD picture can look, the DVD player on component at 480p looks better than anything I've seen on demo in the box stores. I no longer feel any urge to be an early HDDVD/Blueray adopter. However just today I got the Mac Mini hooked up with DVI>HDMI and immediately noticed a lot of problems. Under any resolution (I'm probably sticking with 1280x768) the picture is out of focus (the best way I can describe it) the closer it gets to the edge. I can test this by dragging an labeled icon around and it goes from legible to illegible. Even more worrisome is that if I open a large window filled with white, the edges transform, lowering in contrast and brightness, and becoming more legible. What is this problem? Can it be fixed in the service codes? Should this be done under warranty, or should I attempt it myself? All help is appreciated!

01-04-07, 01:29 PM	#3 \| Link
soloist3 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 390	I forgot to mention this in my last post but one thing that you can do to make text more legible, even at lower resolutions, is lower the contrast by about half; TV's are much brighter than computer monitors, text being displayed at typical TV contrast is almost always going to be distorted (that is why the majority of super high resolution CRT computer monitors rarely make good HDTV's) Last edited by soloist3; 01-04-07 at 01:35 PM..

01-04-07, 05:06 PM	#5 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
justsc AVS Special Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,685	You won't get it the way you want it. I've got this set and tried hard to get my Apple 17" laptop to really look nice with it. No dice. I tried everything. Essentially the best PQ I got was using 480p, contrast real low and all edge enhancement (DRC) turned off. Try contrast (Picture) at around 28-31 tics (a little below the mid point). If it's a requirement to be used as a computer monitor you are better off looking at LCD displays. I assume you are trying to use DVI to HDMI? If so, try a lower bandwidth cable (e.g. composite or S Video).

01-04-07, 01:25 PM	#2 \| Link
soloist3 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 390	Although HD CRT's look better than anything else out there as far as picture quality goes they are not designed to be used as computer monitors, the stripe pitch and bandwidth of the video amplifier are not good enough to resolve that resolution. I think that you could get away with something around 800x600 or an equivalent 16:9 resolution but not anything higher.

01-04-07, 04:04 PM	#4 \| Link
Juventas Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 39	The middle of the screen is acceptable quality, can it not be fixed so that the edges are similar to the middle?

01-06-07, 03:00 AM	#6 \| Link
Juventas Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 39	I just found this informative post, which coincidently features you two fine folks: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9340179 soloist3's explanations are surprising and disappointing, but make a lot sense. I only wished I had read that before I made my purchase. It's pretty key information that you don't see spelled out many places. On the brighter side, I've made some progress with my picture quality. I started with the "Pro" picture setting, which says its for monitors and has the lowest default Picture (aka contrast) level. Knocking it down another few more notches is good advice. At first this seems dim, but when I compare it to my two professional PC CRT monitors, it really is normal for a monitor. After that I took a different route than your advice. Using S-Video really didn't turn out to be a good idea (perhaps this is because the Mac Mini uses a DVI>S-Video adapter?). I continued using my DVI>HDMI cable and chose the 1280x720p resolution. I then enlarged the text size, icon size, and dock size which in OS X scales beautifully. There are still parts of the GUI that don't enlarge, but for my purposes it will be fine. Back on the TV, I noticed my DRC option was disabled (I assume this is always the case with HDMI and progressive video?), but turning on the Velocity Modulation made a huge improvement. I chose "medium" but "high" but be considered better by some. I also tried setting Sharpness to max, which has an interesting result of making some text better, and others worse. I should mention that the end result is still poor if used as a monitor for normal PC use, but in my case I use Front Row the majority of the time, and the rest is just file management and web browsing, which is now usable. Also, for those who don't already know, using ctrl+scroll wheel will scale everything in OS X on the fly, and ctrl++ will scale text in Firefox. Lastly, in Front Row all of this is pretty much moot, it looks just fine with standard settings, especially once you start playing video. Perhaps the biggest advantage of running DVI>HDMI is the simple fact that you can run unstretched widescreen resolutions, and play trailers and movies without zooming.

01-06-07, 03:34 PM	#7 \| Link
justsc AVS Special Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,685	I bet the problem with using S Video is exactly what you guessed (the adapter). And you are correct that when using a digital interface DRC is disabled. What I had meant to write was to experiment with ClearEdge. Exactly what you did. I find that with some text a higher setting works nice, with other text, or typeset, or fonts, it looks best with less. Just have to experiment. Sharpness is just another form of scan verocity modulation (edge enhancement). What I do with OS X is use a two-key combination by pressing the Command and Option keys together and hitting the + key to scale the picture closer (bigger). It will also scale the interface (menu, etc). Once scaled you can use the mouse or trackpad to move the image around to see what you wish to see. This has to first be enabled in the Universal Access System Preferences Pane under the "Seeing" tab. This works in all programs and the Finder. You did some real good work here.