Disney supporting both formats, true???

[dominicr]

Just discovered this. This could be a nuclear bomb if true. Any verification?
http://www.hdtvuk.tv/2006/03/lg_dual_format_.html

[nyg]

Unless Disney has a surprise in store at CES this isn't true.

[zzap64]

This article is from March 2006 almost a year ago. No Disney has not changed their stance. They are still Blu-ray exclusive.

[dominicr]

thanks zzapp64, I wasn't sure since I didn't find a date on the article. It looks like the LG part came true though.

[Rob Zuber]

More recently:

http://news.com.com/New+disc+may+swa...3-6147053.html

In recent interviews, executives at Fox and Disney were unequivocal in their support for Blu-ray. They said they believed that releasing DVDs in both formats would only prolong confusion and the emergence of a winning format. "I think the fastest way to end the format war is through decisiveness and strength," said Bob Chapek, the president of Buena Vista Worldwide Entertainment, the home video arm of Walt Disney.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by dominicr

thanks zzapp64, I wasn't sure since I didn't find a date on the article. It looks like the LG part came true though.

Which is why you can discount Chapek's comments. Companies don't offer promises. Bob Iger the CEO of Disney opined that he thought they'd end up supporting both formats.

Warners Total HD disc could make supporting both formats trivial. Chapek has the wrong idea. Studio exclusivity simply hurts your consumers.

[hmurchison]

We now can presume that LG is going to deliver a Universal player and Warner has the process for Universal discs. There is no real reason for studio exclusivity.

[xbdestroya]

We now can presume that LG is going to deliver a Universal player and Warner has the process for Universal discs. There is no real reason for studio exclusivity.

It's the opposite. The dual-format player announcement essentially means there's less reason to consider ending exclusivity.

[hmurchison]

nyet

Dual Format players but studios in a quandry. Do they stay the course and potentially miss out on revenue or do they support both formats and perhaps take a closer look at what Warner has cooking with Total HD.

The sublime efficacy of a single SKU for both formats is hard to pass up if it's affordable.

[xbdestroya]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

nyet

Dual Format players but studios in a quandry. Do they stay the course and potentially miss out on revenue....

H, dual format players *expand* the user base that can play movies put out on a studios chosen format. If every player was dual-format... the studios could just pick a single format and go with it, see what I'm saying? The more dual-format players there are, the less pressure studios face to consider release on the 'other' format, and the greater the chances that both formats may stick around indefinitely, and that neither format will lose.

or do they support both formats and perhaps take a closer look at what Warner has cooking with Total HD.

The sublime efficacy of a single SKU for both formats is hard to pass up if it's affordable.

Sublime efficacy? That Total HD idea of Warners is an utter bomb, and no way it catches on. How many people are fans of these HD DVD/SD DVD releases that have been in play thus far? Now think that, only more expensive. What in the world is the point of it? Royalties for Warner; nothing more, nothing less.

[hmurchison]

Universal players will indeep expand the market but that will be a little of cannibalization and net new customers. You will still have the high volume product in dedicated players for each format. Studios will indeed have the chance to maintain status quo but let's be honest, few people feel Blu-ray is cheaper than HD DVD to produce so it's a bit foolhardy to assume that studios won't look at other options.

I'm not going to denigrate Warner for coming up with a solution that helps studios and retailers manage their product more effectively. That's how progress manifests itself. Problems must be met with solutions. The only and I repeat ONLY negative thing people are bringing up is cost. I'm not assuming that this format need cost more than your typical Fox Blu-ray disc or Combo disc which is $27.95.

Sublime efficacy...I made that up..I've never seen it paired before. Don't you try and trademark it. I'll lawyer up

[tsd2005]

Ah, but Chapek also promised Iger that BD would be winning in sales for the christmas season.

Bob is going to do what's best for DISNEY. He believes that a format war is bad, and Chapek agrees. Chapek feels that you support one and hope it wins. Bob is begining to think there is room for BOTH without a winner. Neutrality across the board would end up with increased sales.

Disney may very well be a Jones in this case. They make the switch to neutrality claiming it's for the consumer (and it is). They make a big PR "We love the consumer," campaign about it, and the other Studios will follow suit.

Bob's right. The format war is bad. However LP & Cassettes lived side by side for a long time.

[hmurchison]

Such is life with digital data. We used to debate the merit or lacktherof of totally dissimilar analog technologies. With Digital Data it's just a stream of number thus we consumers end up looking a bit foolish because we are debate the plastic carrier the discs com on and the aluminum hte one and zeroes are stamped on.

Frankly studio neutrality is the best way now that we know both formats can co-exist. The next battle is how to manage two different platforms in a cost effective way. Warner has an idea on that but we'll see if it cuts muster.

[Jeff Lampert]

LP & Cassettes lived side by side for a long time.

Yep, so did VHS and DVD. Two formats can co-exist. IMO, studios being exclusive shows utter arrogance and disdain for consumers. Consumers aren't that stupid. They may not know technical details but the can tell quality and they know what they like. That's why Honda and Toyota battle it out. That's why Windows and Mac battle it out. That's why Hershey's and Nestle's battle it out. I trust consumers not to be so baffled by red and blue boxes. I trust they can figure out what they are getting. Exclusive studios are reprehensible in their utter cynicsm. Normally, a company tries to win market share by improving quality and pricing. The exclusive studios instead make their product unavailable to consumers in order to support a hidden agenda. This is so wrong.`

[darinp2]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Warners Total HD disc could make supporting both formats trivial. Chapek has the wrong idea.

If Disney wants the 50GB capability for their releases, then going with those Total HD discs pretty much kills that.

--Darin

[paintit77]

Iger needs to fire Chapek and take everydime he ever took from Disney. Chapek is a moron!

[ckong]

Originally Posted by paintit77

Iger needs to fire Chapek and take everydime he ever took from Disney. Chapek is a moron!

Chapek is smart enough to recognize that a protracted format war will do more harm than good for hidef in general. What he didn't expect is the clever move made by Toshiba and MS in this war, and the disconcerting move by LG and Warner to go hybrid.

Best to review your hidef strategy again Mr. Chapek.

[Robert George]

Chapek is smart enough to recognize that a protracted format war will do more harm than good for hidef in general.

But not smart enough to realize that at this point in the formats' cycle, this so-called war is now being perpetuated by the studios that are exclusive to one format. Hardware is now readily available in both formats. Software capabilities have now proven to provide a quality product for both formats. Only those studios that are not publishing on both formats are making it difficult for consumers and reducing profits for themselves.

If all studios were now publishing on both formats, there would be no real confusion in consumers' minds. They could buy whatever hardware suited their desires and budget and still be assured of being able to buy whatever movies they wanted in a good HD format.

[Forceflow]

With the annoucement of numbers (and HD DVD taking it big), any studio that isn't producing HD DVDs is either anti-consumer (against consumer interests) or else foolish. HD DVD isn't disappearing for years, it has the best and probably only shot of reaching 1 million stand alones by 2007.

[kdragon]

Originally Posted by Forceflow

With the annoucement of numbers (and HD DVD taking it big), any studio that isn't producing HD DVDs is either anti-consumer (against consumer interests) or else foolish. HD DVD isn't disappearing for years, it has the best and probably only shot of reaching 1 million stand alones by 2007.

That's very convenient, isn't it? But I think studios are not discounting non-stand-alone players. Disc sales in 2007 (may be first two or three quarters) will indicate the real trend.

[ckong]

Originally Posted by Forceflow

With the annoucement of numbers (and HD DVD taking it big), any studio that isn't producing HD DVDs is either anti-consumer (against consumer interests) or else foolish. HD DVD isn't disappearing for years, it has the best and probably only shot of reaching 1 million stand alones by 2007.

Not only is it anti-consumer, it might be anti-competitive as well. Anti-trust commission in EU is already asking difficult & probing questions about this format war.......

[Michael Mullis]

Disney may very well be a Jones in this case. They make the switch to neutrality claiming it's for the consumer (and it is). They make a big PR "We love the consumer," campaign about it, and the other Studios will follow suit.

Warner Bros actually has the lead on that thinking. Everything they have done they have publically said was for the consumer. Supporting both formats, and now the Total HD discs.

I still believe neutrality will end this war faster than exclusivity. Let the consumer decide. If HD DVD players are selling better than Blu-ray players with the playing field at a level, than THAT is what is going to force Samsung, Pioneer, Sony, etc: to lower their player prices. Not each other.

THAT is when you're going to see one format over another win out. Price is still keeping HD DVD ahead despite more studios being in BD's corner. Price.

[wreckshop]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Universal players will indeep expand the market but that will be a little of cannibalization and net new customers. You will still have the high volume product in dedicated players for each format. Studios will indeed have the chance to maintain status quo but let's be honest, few people feel Blu-ray is cheaper than HD DVD to produce so it's a bit foolhardy to assume that studios won't look at other options.

obviously there's more to it than disk production costs otherwise disney would be releasing on hd dvd by now. if dual format players becomes the standard, then there will be absolutely no incentive for studios exclusive to one format to release on the other since the vast majority of players will be able to play both.

Originally Posted by ckong

Not only is it anti-consumer, it might be anti-competitive as well. Anti-trust commission in EU is already asking difficult & probing questions about this format war.......

and nothing is going to happen. if the EU can't force game studios that make games exclusively for playstation release on xbox what makes you think a BD exclusive movie studio can be forced to release on hd dvd?

[ckong]

Originally Posted by wreckshop

and nothing is going to happen. if the EU can't force game studios that make games exclusively for playstation release on xbox what makes you think a BD exclusive movie studio can be forced to release on hd dvd?

There wasn't even an investigation by EU about game studio & console recently but there is an on-going investigation about Hollywood studio and CE mfr...hmm I wonder why? Licensing issue aside...the Commission is quite concern about concerted back door dealing like promising cap on replicating cost in return for pledge of alligiance to a singular format......

[Milt99]

But not smart enough to realize that at this point in the formats' cycle, this so-called war is now being perpetuated by the studios that are exclusive to one format. Hardware is now readily available in both formats. Software capabilities have now proven to provide a quality product for both formats. Only those studios that are not publishing on both formats are making it difficult for consumers and reducing profits for themselves.

There you go again Robert. Making things simple and sensical.
How's a studio exec suppose to grasp these concepts

[rlsmith]

Originally Posted by tsd2005

Ah, but Chapek also promised Iger that BD would be winning in sales for the christmas season.

Bob is going to do what's best for DISNEY. He believes that a format war is bad, and Chapek agrees. Chapek feels that you support one and hope it wins. Bob is begining to think there is room for BOTH without a winner. Neutrality across the board would end up with increased sales.

Disney may very well be a Jones in this case. They make the switch to neutrality claiming it's for the consumer (and it is). They make a big PR "We love the consumer," campaign about it, and the other Studios will follow suit.

Bob's right. The format war is bad. However LP & Cassettes lived side by side for a long time.

Here is a quote from today on thedigitalbits.com:

______________
Additional catalog Blu-ray title announcements will follow in the weeks ahead. This is in addition to a number of new-release Blu-ray announcements that are expected to happen throughout 2007. Says BVWHE president Bob Chapek: "Blu-ray is the strongest high definition format on the market and we are very pleased to add this amazing slate of Blu-ray releases that will appeal to our core demographic. With the dual-layer, 50GB discs now becoming standard, the possibilities for exciting new interactive features and additional bonus content are endless."
______________

It would appear from this that Mr. Chapek has decided to stay with Blu-ray exclusivity as the best solution for resolving the format war.

WRT your analogy about LP and cassettes co-existing: yes but they met very different use-cases. LP's were for at home, and cassettes were for cars and Walkmen. Both were put out of business by the CD, which matched both use cases. In the case of Blu-ray and HD DVD, I fail to see how these formats have that kind of difference.

You seem to have been recently arguing for co-existence of both formats. Personally, I could live with that, but I think that the market is rejecting both formats because of the format war.

I counted up today that I have 12 friends with expensive, front-projection home theatre systems, not to mention all of the people that I know who have flat panel HDTV's. Not a single one has bought either format!

This includes a theatre owner who owns 130 screens, 20 video stores, and has a 35mm screening room as well as two front-projection setups. Another friend used to own a laser disk store and just bought a new 1080P projector. A third is a former union projectionist (as am I). Etc.

I am the only person I know who has bought one of the new formats. Years ago, I used to show people my LD's, and a few days later, they would tell me they had bought an LD player. Now, I show them my hd disk player, they say "wow", but then decline to invest because of the format war. Several people have told me, "Call me and tell me when the format war is resolved so I can buy one."

As opposed as I have been to studio exclusivity, I am wondering if it isn't time for a decision to be made for one or the other format and move forward with that format, rather than continue to go nowhere.

[nataraj]

Originally Posted by rlsmith

As opposed as I have been to studio exclusivity, I am wondering if it isn't time for a decision to be made for one or the other format and move forward with that format, rather than continue to go nowhere.

It is. Studios should either adopt WB new total HD disc or just produce in both formats and let the paying consumer decide.

It is high time the studios start looking at us as paying consumers rather than hapless ATMs

[wreckshop]

Originally Posted by ckong

There wasn't even an investigation by EU about game studio & console recently but there is an on-going investigation about Hollywood studio and CE mfr...hmm I wonder why? Licensing issue aside...the Commission is quite concern about concerted back door dealing like promising cap on replicating cost in return for pledge of alligiance to a singular format......

so what if there wasn't any recent investigation? my point is that the EU lets sony and MS get away with paying game studios to NOT publish on the other format. how is that any different from what is ALLEGEDLY going on with the BDA and BD exclusive movie studios? wait, the only difference is instead of getting what is basically an outright bribe, the movie studios only get a discount on disc replication.

and even if the EU did try to make a case, how would that fly in a court when the same thing has been going on for DECADES with no intervention between console makers and game studios?

this so called investigation is going NOWHERE. even the thought of being investigated for anti-trust violations is silly...the BDA is not a monopoly, nor is it a market maker.

[Michael Mullis]

Bob Chapek can say whatever he wants about "possibilities" and "potential". Money talks. Price moves all.

If HD DVD players come down in price and more people start picking them up, that is less money Buena Vista makes on Blu-ray titles they won't put out on HD DVD. And so all the bravado about "strength" won't last very long if the studio isn't seeing a return on their exclusivity.

At some point Iger will step in if that happens. People here on this forum who support Blu-ray may not agree, but the fact is the consumer will never forcefully buy something they don't want. It doesn't matter how many Blu-ray titles BVHE announces. If people want to continue to buy into HD DVD because it's less expensive, they will. And they'll simply continue to by SD versions of BV movies and let their HD DVD players upconvert.

Consumer choice is the reason I support Warner Bros so much. They understand no matter what format I chose, they were there to supply me with movies.

[tsd2005]

Originally Posted by rlsmith

Here is a quote from today on thedigitalbits.com:

______________
Additional catalog Blu-ray title announcements will follow in the weeks ahead. This is in addition to a number of new-release Blu-ray announcements that are expected to happen throughout 2007. Says BVWHE president Bob Chapek: "Blu-ray is the strongest high definition format on the market and we are very pleased to add this amazing slate of Blu-ray releases that will appeal to our core demographic. With the dual-layer, 50GB discs now becoming standard, the possibilities for exciting new interactive features and additional bonus content are endless."
______________

.

That quote is total marketing nonsense. For one it's all lies. "strongest," how? Is the disc actually stronger and able to hold more weight? Because in standalone player sales, attachment rates, and software it's the weakest link. Endless? I'm rather sure that isn't true.

It's just pure market talk.

Chapek has told Iger what he believes is the case of the market. The consumers have also told Iger with their wallets. Iger will make the best decision for Disney stockholders. He doesn't want to get bashed at this year's stock holders meeting. Numbers are DISMAL for BD.