LG to announce dual-format player at CES

[BuGsArEtAsTy]

LG to Sell Dual-Format DVD Player

Jan 3, 11:42 PM (ET)

LOS ANGELES (AP) - LG Electronics said Wednesday it plans to sell a DVD player that will play both warring high-definition DVD formats.
The first dual-format high-def player will play discs in the HD DVD format, which is backed by a consortium headed by Toshiba Corp., as well as the rival Blu-ray format, backed by a group led by Sony Corp. (SNE)

The LG unit will be unveiled at next week's Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, LG said. Details, including pricing and availability, will become available then, the company said.

The two DVD formats have been battling for market share since being introduced last year. Both are expected to get a boost this year as more studios release films in the formats and more players become available.

[BuGsArEtAsTy]

The question now is how much it will cost. Is a $999 player feasible? If yes, will significant number buy it?

Personally, I'd think a $499-699 hybrid player might get more interest from the general public. Ideally though, it should be $499 street for a hybrid (while HD DVD players are $399-449 street).

[Kabillyhop]

Availability in March - so glad now that I didn't jump on one of the single format players, tempting as it was.

[BuGsArEtAsTy]

Originally Posted by Kabillyhop

Availability in March

Where did you see that?

[Kabillyhop]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=780362

The new model will hit the U.S. market during the first quarter of the year, the company said, adding the exact timeframe and prices will be announced at the exhibition.

[BuGsArEtAsTy]

Ah I see. I hadn't come across that article.

P.S. That VP that quit a couple of months ago when a Blu-ray player was introduced: Wasn't that an LG VP? If so, maybe it has to do with the fact that the Blu-ray/HD DVD player wasn't announced earlier, despite the fact that it was coming so soon.

[JediMaster_Windo]

Originally Posted by Kabillyhop

Availability in March - so glad now that I didn't jump on one of the single format players, tempting as it was.

+1 and I'm sure in one or 2 years more will be dual format and yes the prices will drop and keep dropping. Look like 2008 will be the right time to jump in. I'm really not impressed with the minimal 8' section of HD and Blu DVDs at Best Buy nor the $28 price on them.


Everything will become cheaper and better in time....

[Haneke]

Thank god I waited. I won't be upgrading to HD or Blu Ray now until this comes out. If the cost is too high, I'll just keep waiting it out.

[BuGsArEtAsTy]

Rumour has it that it's going to be at LEAST $799, and possible $999 or more.

Can't say I'm surprised, but at those prices, it's not going to sell big numbers.

That said, the psychological impact will be huge, and it effectively ends the format war. It also makes Warner's Total HD discs completely superfluous.

[mlb5000]

Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy

The question now is how much it will cost. Is a $999 player feasible? If yes, will significant number buy it?

Personally, I'd think a $499-699 hybrid player might get more interest from the general public. Ideally though, it should be $499 street for a hybrid (while HD DVD players are $399-449 street).

I am hoping for the lower price as well. I got the 360 HD-DVD player the day it came out and if it comes down to it I'll just use it as an HD-DVD drive for my Mac/PC. A dual format player isn't as hard as everyone thinks it is (but still isn't easy). They both use the same blue laser and everything beyond that is all software. If they can just develop firmware that can differentiate between the two formats and handle them appropriately then it's all good (and apparently they have). I'm glad, this is very much needed.

Ideally all hardware manufacturers need to develop a dual-format player, or all studios need to adopt Warner's dual-format disc, both of which would completely nullify this stupid format war.

Matt

[nick_danger]

Originally Posted by JediMaster_Windo

I'm really not impressed with the minimal 8' section of HD and Blu DVDs at Best Buy nor the $28 price on them.

Then go to Amazon.com or Buy.com and spend $18 on the full selections...

Originally Posted by mlb5000

They both use the same blue laser

Technically, they have different focal pitches...

[BuGsArEtAsTy]

Originally Posted by nick_danger

Technically, they have different focal pitches...

Yes, (correct me if I'm wrong but) my understanding was that early HD DVD blue laser mechanisms won't work with Blu-ray discs, and vice versa, even if the rest of the player were dual-format compatible. The technology in the laser mechanisms have to be designed with dual-format in mind.

[TomJones]

I got an HD-A2 at Best Buy on Dec. 17. Do they have a no questions ask return policy? I like the player, but it seems it will soon be obsolete.

[BuGsArEtAsTy]

Originally Posted by TomJones

I got an HD-A2 at Best Buy on Dec. 17. Do they have a no questions ask return policy? I like the player, but it seems it will soon be obsolete.

So why don't you look at your receipt, or call them?

I wouldn't count your hybrid players before they're hatched though, especially considering LG's history:

1) Say they're releasing a hybrid player.
2) Backtrack and say they're only releasing a Blu-ray player.
3) Formally announce a Blu-ray player.
4) Backtrack and say they're releasing a hybrid player, with rumours saying that the formally announced Blu-ray player is now shelved permanently.

[vasanda]

So I can get a ps3, xbox 360 with hddvd add-on or buy this lg product? I think I will wait...

[DavidHir]

Depending on the price and video performance of the LD player, it still might make sense to go with a separate HD DVD player such as the HD-A2 the PS3 (or other lower cost Blu-ray player rumored to be announced) if you want both formats. I doubt the video performance of the LG will exceed the HD-A2 and PS3 (or other). We'll see what else gets announced over the next week or so.

[CardiacArrest]

If it is actually released at $799 in March it would be excellent timing, tax refunds coming in and all that...

[deria]

This is interesting. Depending on the price, I may purchase one. Even if it is expensive, though, prices will eventually fall as more manufacturers bring dual-format players to the table (which is bound to happen if one manufacturer has already done so, if they intend to sell).

Either way I won't regret my XBOX HD-DVD player purchase, since it seems to be doing exactly what I want (ie: letting me enjoy -some- high definition content in my preferred format without spending alot of cash while waiting for a dual-format player to come along or for HD-DVD to win).

This should be an interesting CES.

[Schlotkins]

Originally Posted by joshd2012

This is going to result in one of two things happening. Either Universal will be forced to produce Blu-ray content as HD DVD dies (no reason for anyone to support HD DVD if dual format players and PS3 will support Blu-ray) or both will survive and consumers will reject both.

This is not going to be pretty.

What are you talking about man? The combo player is THE best thing to happen to this format. It gives the greatest opportunity for a compromise by the two camps and therefore only one "official" format. The problem with the original deals were you either had to pick Blu-ray or HD-DVDs physical format and therefore only one set of people got checks when players were made. With combo players, BOTH people get checks so that makes everyone happy.

For studios, you get the best of both worlds. You need only 25gigs of space for a good encode? Great, go with the cheaper HD-DVD. Got a 4 hour movie with extras? Go with the 50gig Blu-ray disc. All you need is for the packaging on BOTH to be the same and then you've got yourself a standard. Everyone makes money, removes the cofusion from the marketplace and you are all set.

Of course, the PS3 could hold this up. I'm sure it's easy enough to make a combo drive addon for the Xbox 360.

Chris

[deria]

Originally Posted by joshd2012

This is going to result in one of two things happening. Either Universal will be forced to produce Blu-ray content as HD DVD dies (no reason for anyone to support HD DVD if dual format players and PS3 will support Blu-ray) or both will survive and consumers will reject both.

This is not going to be pretty.

I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. There are several good reasons to support HD-DVD, even in a dual-format capable world:

1) the discs cost less to make
2) not everyone will have a dual-format player
3) the interactivity portions of hd-dvd are much more developed
4) the authoring tools for hd-dvd are more developed
5) the hd-dvd format supports lossles compressed audio (ie: you dont have to waste a ton of space with uncompressed PCM)
6) combo discs (hd-dvd/dvd) are attractive to those not yet ready to fully commit to the next generation format, or those who want to be able to play the movies in their existing players or on the road or make backups up them

There are probably alot of other reasons. And yes, Blu Ray has its own set of advantages. My point is that even if everyone magically had dual-format players, there would still be a need for HD-DVD.

In all honesty, if one format got less popular as a result of dual-format players it would likely be Blu Ray, since the ony real advantage that it has is storage capacity. If you don't need the storage capacity, odds are you'll release on the format that offers you everything else.

I'm in favor of dual-format players simply for the sake of not having to worry about what movie will be out on what format when. There aren't many Blu-Ray exclusive movies I care about so far, but there are a couple and I'd rather get them sooner than later (ie: instead of buying them on DVD, as I currently do).

[BuGsArEtAsTy]

Originally Posted by joshd2012

1) Not anymore.
2) Who is going to be a single format player when a dual format player exists?
3) You haven't seen The Descent, have you?
4) See #3
5) Blu-ray has titles already with TrueHD and DTS MA. HD DVD only has used TrueHD.
6) Combo discs benefit no one.

So you're saying Blu-ray has caught up to HD DVD.

So what's the advantage for Blu-ray then? Not much, especially since I dispute your claim that Blu-ray is already as cheap as HD DVD to make. With hybrid players, any studio can just choose a single format and stick with it (Blu-ray or HD DVD). Since Universal is HD DVD exclusive anyway, there is no reason at all for them to change, especially now that they have quite a bit of experience authoring HD DVD discs. (BTW, there is no advantage to using DTS:MA over TrueHD, since both are lossless compression. The reason HD DVD sticks with TrueHD is because all the available players already support it.)

[Ix]

Oh hey why don't we turn this thread into another Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD debate/war/discussion with absolutely no chance of anything productive occurring because neither side will ever believe anything the other says JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER THREAD IN THIS FORUM.

Sorry for my frustration but good God this was old before there even WERE players. How about we try to keep this thread on the topic of the new LG dual-format player and use one of the other 1,000 threads in this forum to pointlessly debate which format is better?

[Phloyd]

Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy

So you're saying Blu-ray has caught up to HD DVD.

I think the term you are looking for is surpassed.

We have seen DTS-MA and PCM with 6.1 - TruHD on HD DVD has been limited to 5.1

We have seen seemless branching, high bitrates, PiP and 6.1 lossless audio on a single title.

Perhaps you can tell us which HD DVD title matches this functionality?

[nyg]

A dual format player at this point is intriguing but I don't have any more confidence in LG putting out a quality, bug-free player than I do for Toshiba.

[deria]

Originally Posted by joshd2012

1) Not anymore.
2) Who is going to be a single format player when a dual format player exists?
3) You haven't seen The Descent, have you?
4) See #3
5) Blu-ray has titles already with TrueHD and DTS MA. HD DVD only has used TrueHD.
6) Combo discs benefit no one.

I disagree with you on price. Can you show a credible source that says that Blu-Ray discs are now similar in cost to manufacture when compared to HD-DVD discs?

I have no seen the descent, no. Please tell me about it. Does it have Picture In Picture? Does it have bonus features that appear during the movie without interupting it? Can I choose which of those bonus features to view on the fly? Do the bonus features shrink the movie screen slightly when the picture in picture comes up so that less of it is obstructed? If Blu Ray does indeed have this level of interactivity, then I'll be alot more comfortable purchasing a player in that format at some point. Does it?

On the sound front, it doesn't matter whats on the disc if the player doesn't support it. The players aren't requried to support the advanced audio codecs, so most movies use PCM (which isn't necessarily bad, just wasteful).

I disagree on your point about combo-discs. They obviously benefit the three groups that I mentioned.

Someone commented on the potential quality of a product from LG. Do they have a particularly bad reputation? The only product that I've had from LG was a CD-ROM drive way back. It was fine, but that was a long time ago.

[fa8362]

Originally Posted by deria

Someone commented on the potential quality of a product from LG. Do they have a particularly bad reputation? The only product that I've had from LG was a CD-ROM drive way back. It was fine, but that was a long time ago.

LG = Goldstar. They changed their name, hoping people would forget.

[BuGsArEtAsTy]

Originally Posted by Phloyd

I think the term you are looking for is surpassed.

We have seen DTS-MA and PCM with 6.1 - TruHD on HD DVD has been limited to 5.1

We have seen seemless branching, high bitrates, PiP and 6.1 lossless audio on a single title.

Perhaps you can tell us which HD DVD title matches this functionality?

I knew someone would say this. Thanks for being the first.

I've always agreed the potential for Blu-ray's BD50 is an advantage. HD30 has 40% less space after all. However, the point was that we've already seen that HD30 is more than sufficient for excellent HD, including discs with TrueHD tracks and PiP or whatever. (The 5.1 on TrueHD is disc choice, not a format limitation, and truly high video bitrates are only needed for MPEG2.)

Arguing that X format can have 14 non-lossy tracks or whatever is missing the point. The point is that going forward it really comes down to cost and studio politics. Even if Blu-ray were as cheap as HD DVD (and I dispute this), why would an HD DVD exclusive studio switch to Blu-ray if it wanted HD DVD in the first place? Similarly, even if HD DVD truly were cheaper as I believe it likely is, that wouldn't make me expect a Blu-ray exclusive studio to switch to HD DVD.

The release of hybrid players makes all of this moot, so why switch sides?

[skogan]

Originally Posted by joshd2012

Can you show a credible source that says Blu-ray discs are now different in cost to manufacture when compared to HD DVD discs?

.

Has there been new data released on this? Last I heard, the BD yields were pretty low, which results in higher cost... are you saying that is now changed? Do you have a link?

[kiddsilk69]

Is the descent the movie that flat out wont play in all the players but the ps3 bc whatever java base program BD uses for extra. Have they even finalized the specs for the interactive features?

[BuGsArEtAsTy]

Originally Posted by joshd2012

That is a false statement. TrueHD FBA is limited to 5.1 and is the format all HD DVD titles have used thus far. FBB, which is supported by both, is the only version that supports up to 7.1.

That is wrong.

Warner has been using FBB, which is limited to 5.1. However, FBA supports 7.1, and yes as you say 7.1 is supported by HD DVD. ie. It's not a format limitation, which is what I said in the first place.

Originally Posted by joshd2012

Can you show a credible source that says Blu-ray discs are now different in cost to manufacture when compared to HD DVD discs?

Up until recently, it was widely accepted that Blu-ray cost more, and even Sony did not dispute this. There have been no recent announcement that Blu-ray manufacturing costs the same, so I would have to say the burden of proof is on those that claim Blu-ray manufacturing costs are now the same.