basic cable upconverted?

raph21 · 01-07-07, 07:50 PM

I currently have basic cable, non digital.
If I use the coax cable from the cable company, plug it into my VCR, then use a composite out from the VCR to my receiver, will the receiver upconvert that signal to HDMI? (i.e onkyo TX SR 674 which upconverts composite to hdmi).

What can of signal would I get on my TV, very nice or very lousy?

Or would it make sense to only upconvert to component so the receiver does not have to fill too many "artifacts"?

Please advice!

miniz · 01-07-07, 09:37 PM

Do you have an HDTV? If so, then why or why do you have a VCR feeding it an ultra low quality 100% junk signal?

GeekGirl · 01-07-07, 10:04 PM

A very lousy signal. You are using a low quality signal through a conversion process (VCR) which degrades it further. Upconverting to HDMI will faithfully reproduce a poor picture.

You have been brainwashed by marketing. HDMI is a digital format. It will faithfully reproduce whatever it's fed into an HDMI receiver. Upconverting to HDMI is yet another conversion process, further degrading your already poor signal.

The upconversion is a marketing "feature" which gives you the convenience of not needing multiple cables between your Onkyo and TV. From that perspective, it's OK. From any other perspective, it's not.

If your TV has an HD (ATSC) / cable-ready HD (QAM) tuner, plug the coax into the TV. Connect your VCR to the composite output of your TV. Not good quality at all, but it will work much better this way.

raph21 · 01-08-07, 08:08 PM

thanks Geekgirl, that helps.
I currently have my coax directly to the TV, but I don't have the Onkyo yet.
One of the main feature I was looking at was the upconversion to HDMI, but I guess it does not make any sense if the input signal is poor.

I was hesitating between the Onkyo SR 604 and the 674 for that reason... so I guess it makes sense to save a few bucks and go with the 604!

Any recommendations maybe on a receiver: I am looking for a dual zone, hdmi receiver (for oppo DVd player) in the 400 to $600 range. Is the Onkyo 604 the best deal out there?

montypythizzle · 01-08-07, 08:13 PM

hmm are you sure it is COMPOSITE to HDMI???

raph21 · 01-08-07, 08:29 PM

you're right, I guess I am mistaken:

here are the features from the Onkyo site:

HDMI Video Upconversion

HDMI Switching Input/Output 2/1 (repeater)

HDMI Bandwith up to 1080p

HDMI Version 1.1

Deinterlacing for HDMI Output (480i to 480p)

Composite and S-Video to Component Video Upconversion

Composite to S-Video Conversion ....

... So what does Hdmi video upconversion means? Does it mean that it will take any DIGITAL signal and convert it to 1081i or 1080p?

GeekGirl · 01-08-07, 10:03 PM

No. It's merely a convenience for switching among multiple HDMI inputs to save you the cabling.

Careful on the S-Video / component "upconversion" - it's just taking the analog composite / S-video signal and running through some internal amplifiers to create a component output. This is not upconversion, but instead format conversion. For convenience. You will get composite / S-video quality output with some slight degradation due to the internal processing.

The Onkyo features http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=...class=Receiver

There's an AVS forum thread for this receiver http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=690739 . Take a look through there and you'll find a number of opinions on what the HDMI does / does not do for you.

CableTool · 01-09-07, 10:33 AM

Just a note, the OP never stated he had a bad or lousy signal. He stated he had basic service with no Digi.

In my opinion.. your spending a lot of time and money dealing with analog signal and DVDs. All the hardware you mention is great for Digital/HD. Neither of which are you using. ( unless you can get the Cables Local HDS from that basic line as well...

miniz · 01-09-07, 04:33 PM

DO YOU HAVE AN HDTV OR NOT? If you do they why o' why are you spending all this money on hardward and then feeding it a crap analog signal? HDMI will do NOTHING for an analog signal! If you have an HDTV, and you want an HDMI switch box inside your receiver then subscribe to HD cable.

raph21 · 01-09-07, 08:09 PM

I have an HDTV (samsung LCD), and oppo 981 HD dvd player.
I don't have HD cable yet, but that's definitely the goal in the near future, that's why I want a receiver that would allow me 2 HDMI inputs and only 1 cable to the TV.
In the meantime though, regarding basic cable which looks ok now on TV, I was not sure if the receiver would improve the picture quality or not... but thanks to your replies, it seems it will only offer cable convenience.
Thanks

miniz · 01-09-07, 08:18 PM

Have you ever viewed true 720/1080 HDTV on your TV? You would NOT, I repeat, NOT, be saying that your current basic cable looks OK. HD is 5-6 times higher resolution and your TV was specifically designed to display such content.

raph21 · 01-09-07, 08:48 PM

No I have not yet, that's why it still looks "ok" to me.
Looking forward to enjoying HD TV soon...

01-07-07, 07:50 PM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
raph21 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 32	basic cable upconverted? I currently have basic cable, non digital. If I use the coax cable from the cable company, plug it into my VCR, then use a composite out from the VCR to my receiver, will the receiver upconvert that signal to HDMI? (i.e onkyo TX SR 674 which upconverts composite to hdmi). What can of signal would I get on my TV, very nice or very lousy? Or would it make sense to only upconvert to component so the receiver does not have to fill too many "artifacts"? Please advice!

01-07-07, 09:37 PM	#2 \| Link
miniz OFFICAL HOME OF HDTV Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Small Town X, HDTV Land Posts: 2,221	Do you have an HDTV? If so, then why or why do you have a VCR feeding it an ultra low quality 100% junk signal? __________________ "PLEASE HELP STOP HDTV ABUSE! FEED YOUR HDTV AN HD SIGNAL!"

01-08-07, 08:13 PM	#5 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
montypythizzle <3 TV Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 173	hmm are you sure it is COMPOSITE to HDMI???

01-08-07, 10:03 PM	#7 \| Link
GeekGirl Señora Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 1,510	No. It's merely a convenience for switching among multiple HDMI inputs to save you the cabling. Careful on the S-Video / component "upconversion" - it's just taking the analog composite / S-video signal and running through some internal amplifiers to create a component output. This is not upconversion, but instead format conversion. For convenience. You will get composite / S-video quality output with some slight degradation due to the internal processing. The Onkyo features http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=...class=Receiver There's an AVS forum thread for this receiver http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=690739 . Take a look through there and you'll find a number of opinions on what the HDMI does / does not do for you. Last edited by GeekGirl; 01-08-07 at 10:12 PM..

01-09-07, 10:33 AM	#8 \| Link
CableTool Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 138	Just a note, the OP never stated he had a bad or lousy signal. He stated he had basic service with no Digi. In my opinion.. your spending a lot of time and money dealing with analog signal and DVDs. All the hardware you mention is great for Digital/HD. Neither of which are you using. ( unless you can get the Cables Local HDS from that basic line as well... __________________ CableTECHS.org "Horrible People with Integrity"

01-07-07, 10:04 PM	#3 \| Link
GeekGirl Señora Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 1,510	A very lousy signal. You are using a low quality signal through a conversion process (VCR) which degrades it further. Upconverting to HDMI will faithfully reproduce a poor picture. You have been brainwashed by marketing. HDMI is a digital format. It will faithfully reproduce whatever it's fed into an HDMI receiver. Upconverting to HDMI is yet another conversion process, further degrading your already poor signal. The upconversion is a marketing "feature" which gives you the convenience of not needing multiple cables between your Onkyo and TV. From that perspective, it's OK. From any other perspective, it's not. If your TV has an HD (ATSC) / cable-ready HD (QAM) tuner, plug the coax into the TV. Connect your VCR to the composite output of your TV. Not good quality at all, but it will work much better this way.

01-08-07, 08:08 PM	#4 \| Link
raph21 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 32	thanks Geekgirl, that helps. I currently have my coax directly to the TV, but I don't have the Onkyo yet. One of the main feature I was looking at was the upconversion to HDMI, but I guess it does not make any sense if the input signal is poor. I was hesitating between the Onkyo SR 604 and the 674 for that reason... so I guess it makes sense to save a few bucks and go with the 604! Any recommendations maybe on a receiver: I am looking for a dual zone, hdmi receiver (for oppo DVd player) in the 400 to $600 range. Is the Onkyo 604 the best deal out there?

01-08-07, 08:29 PM	#6 \| Link
raph21 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 32	you're right, I guess I am mistaken: here are the features from the Onkyo site: HDMI Video Upconversion HDMI Switching Input/Output 2/1 (repeater) HDMI Bandwith up to 1080p HDMI Version 1.1 Deinterlacing for HDMI Output (480i to 480p) Composite and S-Video to Component Video Upconversion Composite to S-Video Conversion .... ... So what does Hdmi video upconversion means? Does it mean that it will take any DIGITAL signal and convert it to 1081i or 1080p?

01-09-07, 04:33 PM	#9 \| Link
miniz OFFICAL HOME OF HDTV Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Small Town X, HDTV Land Posts: 2,221	DO YOU HAVE AN HDTV OR NOT? If you do they why o' why are you spending all this money on hardward and then feeding it a crap analog signal? HDMI will do NOTHING for an analog signal! If you have an HDTV, and you want an HDMI switch box inside your receiver then subscribe to HD cable. __________________ "PLEASE HELP STOP HDTV ABUSE! FEED YOUR HDTV AN HD SIGNAL!"

01-09-07, 08:09 PM	#10 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
raph21 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 32	I have an HDTV (samsung LCD), and oppo 981 HD dvd player. I don't have HD cable yet, but that's definitely the goal in the near future, that's why I want a receiver that would allow me 2 HDMI inputs and only 1 cable to the TV. In the meantime though, regarding basic cable which looks ok now on TV, I was not sure if the receiver would improve the picture quality or not... but thanks to your replies, it seems it will only offer cable convenience. Thanks

01-09-07, 08:18 PM	#11 \| Link
miniz OFFICAL HOME OF HDTV Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Small Town X, HDTV Land Posts: 2,221	Have you ever viewed true 720/1080 HDTV on your TV? You would NOT, I repeat, NOT, be saying that your current basic cable looks OK. HD is 5-6 times higher resolution and your TV was specifically designed to display such content. __________________ "PLEASE HELP STOP HDTV ABUSE! FEED YOUR HDTV AN HD SIGNAL!"

01-09-07, 08:48 PM	#12 \| Link
raph21 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 32	No I have not yet, that's why it still looks "ok" to me. Looking forward to enjoying HD TV soon...