What will happen to cable rates in Feb 2009?

Ed43 · 01-09-07, 10:48 PM

In Feb 2009 when everything switches to all digital, what will cable companies do with their rates. Can they charge more to the current analog receiving customers?
Will HDTV/digital package owners see a rate decrease?

Im sure the cable companies will figure out something to keep th emoney rolling in.!

kenglish · 01-10-07, 10:10 AM

Who said anything about "everything switching to all digital"?

Only OTA Television Broadcast Stations will stop broadcasting analog thru the airwaves at midnight on 2-17-09. (And, they can even continue to supply analog to the satellite and cable tv providers.)

Everyone else can legally "keep on keepin' on" (as my friend, the late Bill Powell, usta' say).

Ed43 · 01-10-07, 03:59 PM

"Congress passed a law on February 1, 2006, setting a final deadline for the DTV transition of February 17, 2009. Most television stations will continue broadcasting both analog and digital programming until February 17, 2009, when all analog broadcasting will stop. Analog TVs receiving over-the-air programming will still work after that date, but owners of these TVs will need to buy converter boxes to change digital broadcasts into analog format. Converter boxes will be available from consumer electronic products retailers at that time. Cable and satellite subscribers with analog TVs should contact their service providers about obtaining converter boxes for the DTV transition."

Am I reading something incorrectly?

Ed43 · 01-10-07, 04:07 PM

"TV stations serving all markets in the United States are airing digital television programming today, although most will continue to provide analog programming through February 17, 2009. At that point, full-power TV stations will cease broadcasting on their current analog channels, and the spectrum they use for analog broadcasting will be reclaimed and put to other uses"

RockyF · 01-10-07, 04:15 PM

No, you're not reading that incorrectly, but it is written incorrectly. As kenglish said, the analog cutoff applies to over the air analog broadcasting. The paragraph you quoted says "Cable and satellite subscribers with analog TVs should contact their service providers about obtaining converter boxes for the DTV transition." However, the fact of the matter is that cable and satellite subscribers will probably not notice a thing different on that date.

kenglish · 01-10-07, 05:18 PM

Satellite, unless you are using the BUD ("Big Ugly/Useful Dish", as it is affectionately known) is already all Digital.

The Consumer Electronics industry commonly intimates that Digital and HDTV are the same thing, so they seem to be saying "call your satellite or Cable service for boxes to add HDTV". The signals most people already get from satellite, as well as the non-HD locals, is SDTV, and probably won't change for a long while. They will simply keep adding HDTV locals, of the locals that actually broadcast HDTV programming, and those will require a new receiver. Eventually, the satellite companies would like to phase out all older (MPEG-2) receivers, and the less-efficient MPEG-2 channels.

Cable, on the other hand, is a mix of older....let's call them "legacy"....analog channels, as well as digital SD and HD channels. They can cram about 6 SDTV or two HD channels in to the same space that currently holds a single analog channel, so they would just love to go all Digital, too. Problem is, you'd need a rented STB for each and every TV and VCR you own, so the average Cable customer isn't thrilled with that idea (satellite customers, though, accept the "one box per set" as a given). So, once again, the CE people are intimating that you need a new box....especially for HDTV Cable.

So, the only people who have to abandon analog, are the OTA broadcasters, and the viewers who rely on analog OTA. Those viewers will need a new TV and an appropriate antenna, a STB and an antenna, or the (SDTV-output only) subsidized converter box and an antenna. Old sets will still work with most of these options (OTA, Sat, Cable), but only with the proper receiving hardware.

miniz · 01-10-07, 08:02 PM

The incorrect and/or misleading statements made by many of the major new orginizations is just mind blowing when it comes to this issue! The only thing that will change at midnight on 2-17-09, is OTA analog broadcasts. Do you really think every single cable company that still has MILLIONS of subscribers with BILLIONS of analog-only TV's is going to invest in digital STB's for every single one of the BILLIONS of analog TV's out there? NO. Not a chance! All-digital cable is MANY years, if not decades, away. There is no mandate that says that cable companies must broadcast in 100% digital. You know why? Because the cable company broadcasting in analog doesn't adversly affect anyone (besides the fact that analog TV looks like crap is severly outdated). It uses ZERO broadcast space. It is not a safety issue. It would simply disinfranchise too many people to make the switch. Could you see 80% of America's elderly population learning how to use "new-fangeled" digital STB's? No way! These people didn't grow up with computers and don't want to learn how to use computer like thing-a-ma-bobs. They want to turn on their analog TV, just the way they have been doing it for the past 20, 30, 40 years and switch to the Price is Right! Simple!

kenglish · 01-13-07, 10:22 AM

But, "The Price is Right" may be going away....Bob Barker is retiring at the end of this season

.

BTW, we have a couple of the new "subsidized" D-to-A converters, for evaluation.

Pretty slick....I think a minimal amount of setup instruction will be sufficient for many people to use them. Probably need to teach a lot of technicians and apartment/condo/retirement-center maintenance people how to install an antenna, though.

miniz · 01-13-07, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenglish

But, "The Price is Right" may be going away....Bob Barker is retiring at the end of this season

I don't think the Price is Right will EVER go away! Even if they don't find someone to replace Bob, they have 1,000,000,000 episodes to repeat over and over. They could show the same episode almost every day to some people and they would think it was "all-new".

Ratman · 01-13-07, 07:16 PM

Hopefully they didn't trash their VCR's and can watch all the pre-recorded shows.

bfoster · 01-13-07, 07:50 PM

You mean those 1,000,000,000 episodes of TPR were not digitally mastered to DVD?

Oh the horror!

miniz · 01-13-07, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfoster

You mean those 1,000,000,000 episodes of TPR were not digitally mastered to DVD?

Oh the horror!

No, because most of them were made before 1985!

Scooper · 01-14-07, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenglish

But, "The Price is Right" may be going away....Bob Barker is retiring at the end of this season

.

BTW, we have a couple of the new "subsidized" D-to-A converters, for evaluation.

Pretty slick....I think a minimal amount of setup instruction will be sufficient for many people to use them. Probably need to teach a lot of technicians and apartment/condo/retirement-center maintenance people how to install an antenna, though.

Can you give a short "what features / connections" are available on the new "subsidized" D to A convertors ? I would be quite happy if it comes with composite video and analog audio, as that way I could modulate them over the house.

kenglish · 01-14-07, 09:39 AM

I'm waiting for an OK from NAB and MSTV before we start a big discussion on them, but they do have composite video (525 NTSC) and stereo audio. One of the moderators has commented, on another (CES) thread, that there is no S-VHS, though.

Scooper · 01-14-07, 03:18 PM

That sounds excellent, sort of what I was expecting.

I'll take my two when they become available

keithsimp · 01-17-07, 03:37 PM

Here's my question:
If the analog OTA shutoff is scheduled for Feb. 2009, how are the cable companys going to receive the analog signals from the local stations, in order to provide the millions of customers who just plug in a cable to the back of their set and not use a STB ? I thought in most cases today, the local stations (SD) are picked up by cable companies via antennas pointed at the different antenna farms. I didn't think that each of the locals had to provide a direct feed to the cable companies. Will that be required after Feb. 2009? Are the locals required to give both analog and HD to the cable/satellite companies in the future?

miniz · 01-17-07, 04:47 PM

Most cable companies have a wired connected to thier local NBC/CBS/ABC/FOX, ect.. for analog. That won't change. If they only have an analog OTA connection now then they will simply down-convert the remaining digital OTA signal to analog and pass it along to their outdated consumers.

larrytstone · 01-20-08, 04:18 PM

I'd like to resurrect the inquiry made a year ago about the impact of the conversion to digital on cable company rates. I'm a basic analog only subscriber. I called Comcast CS to ask about the 2/09 impact and was told I would need to convert to Digital Starter at that time. So technically, I shouldn't have to change anything but it appears Comcast is looking to utilize the broadcast change as a way to get increased revenues. Am I reading this wrong? Are they legally allowed to force changes due to this event?

olo131 · 01-20-08, 09:50 PM

I work for the cable co. as a tech and as i understand we don't have to change our format and we can still offer customers analog, (by converting it back to analog), straight to the television because it is only for broadcasters not re broadcasters (ie Cable Co.). With that being said if the cable co. go all digital they have to offer everyone without a STB one, and for every cable co to order them they need to start NOW. Also they will have upgrade all the tech meters. I think with the two major costs it will be bit longer before the cable co. changes.

James

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Ed43 Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 155	What will happen to cable rates in Feb 2009? In Feb 2009 when everything switches to all digital, what will cable companies do with their rates. Can they charge more to the current analog receiving customers? Will HDTV/digital package owners see a rate decrease? Im sure the cable companies will figure out something to keep th emoney rolling in.!

01-10-07, 10:10 AM	#2 \| Link
kenglish AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Salt Lake City, UT, USA Posts: 3,788	Who said anything about "everything switching to all digital"? Only OTA Television Broadcast Stations will stop broadcasting analog thru the airwaves at midnight on 2-17-09. (And, they can even continue to supply analog to the satellite and cable tv providers.) Everyone else can legally "keep on keepin' on" (as my friend, the late Bill Powell, usta' say). __________________ Ken English, Sr. Engineer, KSL-TV/-DT. "Not a REAL Engineer, but I play one in TV" Last edited by kenglish; 01-10-07 at 10:26 AM..

01-10-07, 03:59 PM	#3 \| Link
Ed43 Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 155	Well, this is what I read... "Congress passed a law on February 1, 2006, setting a final deadline for the DTV transition of February 17, 2009. Most television stations will continue broadcasting both analog and digital programming until February 17, 2009, when all analog broadcasting will stop. Analog TVs receiving over-the-air programming will still work after that date, but owners of these TVs will need to buy converter boxes to change digital broadcasts into analog format. Converter boxes will be available from consumer electronic products retailers at that time. Cable and satellite subscribers with analog TVs should contact their service providers about obtaining converter boxes for the DTV transition." Am I reading something incorrectly?

01-10-07, 04:07 PM	#4 \| Link
Ed43 Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 155	and this.... "TV stations serving all markets in the United States are airing digital television programming today, although most will continue to provide analog programming through February 17, 2009. At that point, full-power TV stations will cease broadcasting on their current analog channels, and the spectrum they use for analog broadcasting will be reclaimed and put to other uses"

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RockyF AVS Special Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Benton, AR Posts: 1,592	No, you're not reading that incorrectly, but it is written incorrectly. As kenglish said, the analog cutoff applies to over the air analog broadcasting. The paragraph you quoted says "Cable and satellite subscribers with analog TVs should contact their service providers about obtaining converter boxes for the DTV transition." However, the fact of the matter is that cable and satellite subscribers will probably not notice a thing different on that date. __________________ Rocky

01-10-07, 05:18 PM	#6 \| Link
kenglish AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Salt Lake City, UT, USA Posts: 3,788	Satellite, unless you are using the BUD ("Big Ugly/Useful Dish", as it is affectionately known) is already all Digital. The Consumer Electronics industry commonly intimates that Digital and HDTV are the same thing, so they seem to be saying "call your satellite or Cable service for boxes to add HDTV". The signals most people already get from satellite, as well as the non-HD locals, is SDTV, and probably won't change for a long while. They will simply keep adding HDTV locals, of the locals that actually broadcast HDTV programming, and those will require a new receiver. Eventually, the satellite companies would like to phase out all older (MPEG-2) receivers, and the less-efficient MPEG-2 channels. Cable, on the other hand, is a mix of older....let's call them "legacy"....analog channels, as well as digital SD and HD channels. They can cram about 6 SDTV or two HD channels in to the same space that currently holds a single analog channel, so they would just love to go all Digital, too. Problem is, you'd need a rented STB for each and every TV and VCR you own, so the average Cable customer isn't thrilled with that idea (satellite customers, though, accept the "one box per set" as a given). So, once again, the CE people are intimating that you need a new box....especially for HDTV Cable. So, the only people who have to abandon analog, are the OTA broadcasters, and the viewers who rely on analog OTA. Those viewers will need a new TV and an appropriate antenna, a STB and an antenna, or the (SDTV-output only) subsidized converter box and an antenna. Old sets will still work with most of these options (OTA, Sat, Cable), but only with the proper receiving hardware. __________________ Ken English, Sr. Engineer, KSL-TV/-DT. "Not a REAL Engineer, but I play one in TV"

01-10-07, 08:02 PM	#7 \| Link
miniz OFFICAL HOME OF HDTV Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Small Town X, HDTV Land Posts: 2,221	The incorrect and/or misleading statements made by many of the major new orginizations is just mind blowing when it comes to this issue! The only thing that will change at midnight on 2-17-09, is OTA analog broadcasts. Do you really think every single cable company that still has MILLIONS of subscribers with BILLIONS of analog-only TV's is going to invest in digital STB's for every single one of the BILLIONS of analog TV's out there? NO. Not a chance! All-digital cable is MANY years, if not decades, away. There is no mandate that says that cable companies must broadcast in 100% digital. You know why? Because the cable company broadcasting in analog doesn't adversly affect anyone (besides the fact that analog TV looks like crap is severly outdated). It uses ZERO broadcast space. It is not a safety issue. It would simply disinfranchise too many people to make the switch. Could you see 80% of America's elderly population learning how to use "new-fangeled" digital STB's? No way! These people didn't grow up with computers and don't want to learn how to use computer like thing-a-ma-bobs. They want to turn on their analog TV, just the way they have been doing it for the past 20, 30, 40 years and switch to the Price is Right! Simple! __________________ "PLEASE HELP STOP HDTV ABUSE! FEED YOUR HDTV AN HD SIGNAL!"

01-13-07, 10:22 AM	#8 \| Link
kenglish AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Salt Lake City, UT, USA Posts: 3,788	But, "The Price is Right" may be going away....Bob Barker is retiring at the end of this season . BTW, we have a couple of the new "subsidized" D-to-A converters, for evaluation. Pretty slick....I think a minimal amount of setup instruction will be sufficient for many people to use them. Probably need to teach a lot of technicians and apartment/condo/retirement-center maintenance people how to install an antenna, though. __________________ Ken English, Sr. Engineer, KSL-TV/-DT. "Not a REAL Engineer, but I play one in TV"

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Ratman AVS Special Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Collingswood, N.J. Posts: 8,242	Hopefully they didn't trash their VCR's and can watch all the pre-recorded shows.

01-13-07, 07:50 PM	#11 \| Link
bfoster AVS Special Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Weeksville, NC Posts: 2,129	You mean those 1,000,000,000 episodes of TPR were not digitally mastered to DVD? Oh the horror!

01-14-07, 09:39 AM	#14 \| Link
kenglish AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Salt Lake City, UT, USA Posts: 3,788	I'm waiting for an OK from NAB and MSTV before we start a big discussion on them, but they do have composite video (525 NTSC) and stereo audio. One of the moderators has commented, on another (CES) thread, that there is no S-VHS, though. __________________ Ken English, Sr. Engineer, KSL-TV/-DT. "Not a REAL Engineer, but I play one in TV"

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Scooper AVS Special Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Youngsville, NC USA Posts: 4,395	That sounds excellent, sort of what I was expecting. I'll take my two when they become available __________________ You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property... http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html Being A Beacon of Knowledge in the darkness of FUD

01-17-07, 03:37 PM	#16 \| Link
keithsimp Advanced Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Highlands Ranch, Co. USA Posts: 703	Here's my question: If the analog OTA shutoff is scheduled for Feb. 2009, how are the cable companys going to receive the analog signals from the local stations, in order to provide the millions of customers who just plug in a cable to the back of their set and not use a STB ? I thought in most cases today, the local stations (SD) are picked up by cable companies via antennas pointed at the different antenna farms. I didn't think that each of the locals had to provide a direct feed to the cable companies. Will that be required after Feb. 2009? Are the locals required to give both analog and HD to the cable/satellite companies in the future? __________________ Keith S.

01-17-07, 04:47 PM	#17 \| Link
miniz OFFICAL HOME OF HDTV Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Small Town X, HDTV Land Posts: 2,221	Most cable companies have a wired connected to thier local NBC/CBS/ABC/FOX, ect.. for analog. That won't change. If they only have an analog OTA connection now then they will simply down-convert the remaining digital OTA signal to analog and pass it along to their outdated consumers. __________________ "PLEASE HELP STOP HDTV ABUSE! FEED YOUR HDTV AN HD SIGNAL!"

01-20-08, 04:18 PM	#18 \| Link
larrytstone New Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 12	I'd like to resurrect the inquiry made a year ago about the impact of the conversion to digital on cable company rates. I'm a basic analog only subscriber. I called Comcast CS to ask about the 2/09 impact and was told I would need to convert to Digital Starter at that time. So technically, I shouldn't have to change anything but it appears Comcast is looking to utilize the broadcast change as a way to get increased revenues. Am I reading this wrong? Are they legally allowed to force changes due to this event?

01-20-08, 09:50 PM	#19 \| Link
olo131 New Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Panama City Beach, Fl. Posts: 3	Feb. 09' and the cable co. I work for the cable co. as a tech and as i understand we don't have to change our format and we can still offer customers analog, (by converting it back to analog), straight to the television because it is only for broadcasters not re broadcasters (ie Cable Co.). With that being said if the cable co. go all digital they have to offer everyone without a STB one, and for every cable co to order them they need to start NOW. Also they will have upgrade all the tech meters. I think with the two major costs it will be bit longer before the cable co. changes. James __________________ "To err is human but to realy screw up you need a computer"