Coax Cable Splitter Issues?

[WestCoastD]

I just switched from an Acoustic Research (AR) 2GHz 3-way coax splitter to a Monster 2GHz 2-way coax splitter, and it seems to me the overall video quality is [not] as good- especially noticeable with HDTV resolution (1080i). While the picture is decent looking it does'nt seem to be as fine, or sharp looking. Have any of you had experience with these products?

[bfoster]

RF splitter? If so digital is there or it isn't, resolution and sharpness can not be affected on the RF side.

P.S. Unless it was a gift, you paid too much for the splitter..... ;-)

[WestCoastD]

Originally Posted by bfoster

RF splitter? If so digital is there or it isn't, resolution and sharpness can not be affected on the RF side.

yeah, one of these suckers.......
http://www.monstercable.com/productPage.asp?pin=663

I see, so what you're saying is if the [digital] signal gets propagated to the cable-box safely then it should'nt matter what brand splitter does it, and the video quality is not gonna be necessarily any better or worse?

Originally Posted by bfoster

P.S. Unless it was a gift, you paid too much for the splitter.....

what's $19.00 in the audio/video world? that's pennies as far as I'm concerned.

But people "salute" you if you bragg about having an $8000.00 Krell brand amplifier (for example). When I think there are many $2000.00 models that are right in there. Or if you have a pair of $20,000.00 B&W speakers.

[bfoster]

$19.00 dollars? For ONE splitter? Holy $%#@ batman!

Yep, if it is getting to the box and you have a stable picture, it matters not what it is passing through before that box as far as resolution and picture quality are concerned.

[WestCoastD]

Originally Posted by bfoster

Yep, if it is getting to the box and you have a stable picture, it matters not what it is passing through before that box as far as resolution and picture quality are concerned.

thanks for your input!

[cip4465]

I'll follow this post with interest, as I need to get some of these as well. The way I see it, I think I'll have to split twice! From attic to control pannel in master closet as one cable, then from there need to send that signal to media room & living room (1 split). Then once in living room, need to send it to both the HR20 box and also to the TV's antenna input (2nd split).

Like you, I don't mind paying a little bit for cabling or things like this. I'm one of the crazy ones I guess. I don't think this is the popular opinion around here, but just want to make sure everything is of the highest quality...even if its only real affect is to make me feel better inside. Heck, I'm planning for a new DLP in the living room in a few weeks, so I spent a great deal on cables in anticipation, including $120 worth of high quality COAX from RAM for that room (needed 8 cables as I will filter them through a monster power center). Yep...I'm absolutely crazy!

[WestCoastD]

Yeah, I'm crazy too (I guess)! I've probably spent easily $2000.00 dollars to outfit my whole system with Monster component-video cables, s-video cables, analog-audio interconnects, digital-optical interconnects, digital-coax interconnects, power-conditioners (yes 2 of them). Also, specifially used AudioQuest Diamond-Back series interconnects for most of my analog-audio interconnects.

Monster makes 3 different splitter models, so you may want to check them out closely to see what combination will work best for you.
http://www.monstercable.com/productPage.asp?pin=663v

They have:
2 Way 2 GigaHertz RF Splitter
3 Way 2 GigaHertz RF Splitter
4 Way 2 GigaHertz RF Splitter

Good Luck, and have Fun!

[bfoster]

This ought to be fun to watch.

[cip4465]

Wow WestCoast D! Thats some extreme cables sounds like!

This is off-topic, but thought I would ask. You meniton you have 2 power centers (must have lots of components!). Are you running your COAX feeds through these? And if so, did you notice any loss or difference in the signal doing so?

[bfoster]

When you gents mention higher quality, how are you determining this?

I can't seem to find ANY technical specs for the products you mention.

[cip4465]

Well, for me, I haven't mentioned any products in paticular.

When thinking about cables, here are the things I have been thinking about. I'm about two weeks away from spending $5,000 on a TV. When I start to plan out how I will hook everything, I take a look at what I have, or what I have in my box-o-cables in the closet and find un-marked old COAX cables with shady looking steel connectors that have seen several years of use, wear/tear and maybe even corrosion.

So, I decided to get new COAX cables, it only seems right given that I will be spending so much on a snazy new TV...maybe I should make sure I have nice cables to pass the signal to it.

So, this is the description for the new COAX cables I bought:

"75 Ohm Silver plated conductor cable soldered with silver solder. Black chrome barrels with gold plated connectors."

These sounded like good quality COAX cables to me. Gold plated terminations. And the RG6 copper itself is silver plated, all bundled inside several layers of shielding to eliminate interference.

These aren't Monster cables (and I do agree that some of the name brand cable makers put out some heavy mark-ups), but are from an AVS supported vendor's web page.

Are the specs these cables will offer better than average run of the mill RG6 from Home Depot? Not sure, I haven't seen technical specs for ANY of the choices. But I'm sure they are sufficiently better than the older dust covered COAX buried in a box for 10 years in my closet. In my opinion, its a justified expenditure given the amount I am spending on the TV that relies on those signals.

[WestCoastD]

Originally Posted by cip4465

Are you running your COAX feeds through these? And if so, did you notice any loss or difference in the signal doing so?

yeah, I've been experimenting (for about a year now) with running my main coax video feed through the Power Center filter, then to my cable-box (SA8300HD). I was worried at first about signal attenuation, however, video seems to be very good. I'm watching FOX NFL coverage (Chicago Bears/Seattle Seahawks) as I speak and the HD video quality is unbelieveable! I've been paying close attention to detail, sometimes you can notice the skin texture on close-ups, other times details are slightly "fuzzy", I'm assuming this is more of a camera depth-of-field function?

Anyway, I plan to experiment by-passing, and going straight to the cable-box as well.

On the computer-side of things I use a Belkin power-strip, when I pass the cable through it's filters the signal becomes too attenuated to function properly for my cable-modem.

[Rick0725]

it is not necessary to loop thru the off air or satellite incoming coax thru a power center if the coax is properly grounded in the first place. there is just too much loss associated.

I have tried tons of different splitters...even the expensive gold and designer splitters from monster and accoustic research. they are a waste of money.

look at bandwith on the label of the splitter.
5-1000 mhz min for off air....5-1500 mhz is better
5-2000 mhz is for satellite
5-3000 mhz for new directv sat. applications.

the losses on the splitters are basically the same.
2 way 3.7 db
3 way 5.5 db
4 way 7.5 db

the only issue would be a 3 way splitter...comes in 3 versions. be careful to select the version for your application.

used as a tap - 2 versions
6.5 6.5 3.5
7.5 7.5 3.5

equal loss per port
5.5 5.5 5.5

cable - look at the label...rg6 solid copper center conductor, swept tested to at least 2 ghz, 60% aluminum braid, flexible pvc jacket, 100% foil shield. if a magnet sticks to the coax, the coax is copper coated steel and avoid it. dual shield cable is not necessary unless you suspect interference ingress.

from my experience ...the phillip's coax at lowe's is crap. the ideal brand splitters are fine.

you can write a book on this topic and I am going to make it brief.

do not waste your money on the expensive spliters...gold, monster, accoustic research, etc. read the label on the coax or look at the printing on the coax itself.

for the money you can overspend on this stuff...you can buy a 1000' of rg6, a bag of compression fittings and tools and make you own cables.

for the heck of it - I use vextra v6212blk rg6 coax...swept tested to 3ghz...ppg or thomas and betts compression fittings, a 1 way coax stripping tool ,and a universal compression fitting tool.

with the right cable fittings and tools...you can make your own audio and video cables.

[cip4465]

Just a follow-up. I went to Monster's web page to find similarly speced (in regards to materials used / construction of cables) COAX cables. They do have a similarly speced COAX cable as the one I purchased online (gold pated connectors, silver coated copper conductor).

Monster's is priced at $70 for 6 feet & $50 for 3 feet. The one I bought was $20 for 6 feet & $15 for 3 feet.

Because I had to buy 8 different COAX cables for my wiring needs, I just wouldn't be able to spend that kind of money. Monster's cable may very well be technically superior to the one I bought...but if someone's budget can accomodate that expenditure, and it makes the owner feel better, and possibly provide an undetermined margin of improvement...then why not. In my opinion...to each their own!

I could have used my dust covered budget cables to pass a signal to my new TV, but I personally will feel much better about having cables made of higher quality materials and constructed better. Will it make a difference - I won't ever know, as I won't be pulling the old cables out and wrestling with the giant TV to perform A-B tests.

If I owned a Ferrari F430, and needed to replace the drivetrain...I wouldn't use one out of a 1980's Buick if they were equal in size / fit / function. I also wouldn't use one out of an Enzo if they were equal in size / fit / function - but that would only be because I couldn't afford it!

************************************************************ **
WestCoastD - keep us updated with any splitter info you come upon. My worry is that its known that splitters can degrade signals, even if ever so slightly. I would really like to find a good one, maybe not one on a Ferrari budget, but the best one within the amount I'm willing to spend.

[Rick0725]

man...for that kind of money you can purchase

$70 - 1000' feet of rg6 solid copper, low loss 3ghz swept tested...top of the line stuff.
$40 - compression tool
$18 - coax stripper tool
$24 - bag of 100 compression fitting

and make cables for your entire neighborhood!

gold plated connectors, silver coated copper conductor...for coax??? for a 3 meter cable??? ....ridiculous!

[WestCoastD]

Originally Posted by Rick0725

it is not necessary to loop thru the off air or satellite incoming coax thru a power center if the coax is properly grounded in the first place. there is just too much loss associated.

I'm curious just how much affect on video quality, or detail, these power-center filters can have, since (you say) they invoke some signal loss?

Originally Posted by Rick0725

with the right cable fittings and tools...you can make your own audio and video cables.

thanks for all your good info Rick0725. Yeah, I enjoy playing around with making my own speaker cables, but have'nt got around to playing with audio, or video, interconnects-- just don't have the time, otherwise I probably would.

[WestCoastD]

Also, wonder how much power-cords may affect signal (video-quality)?

I'm well aware that you must segregate these lines as much as possible, however, with multiple components and devices it's almost impossible to not run a video-cable next to a power-cord at some point. I'm thinking I'm seeing some 60Hz noise on my video.

[Rick0725]

I'm curious just how much affect on video quality, or detail, these power-center filters can have, since (you say) they invoke some signal loss?

In the most simplest explanation of a nebulous science to begin with - The power centers were originally designed with the older analog technology in mind. the thought of filtering out factors that could ingress into the coax for an analog technology of interferences you can "see".

digital is a different matter all together.

I experimented over the years...first with panamax devices then pure av, etc. Thought I saw a difference...back then.

when digital came along and signal "quality/strength" became a priority, I disconnected and tossed the spaghetti collection of cables used as pass thrus for the several power conditioners in my systems.

saw no difference in the picture but noticed a sizeable increase in signal strength. Not all power conditional devices are created equal. some do not pass the full frequency spectrum or communicate back to a cable headend for ppv.

I probably tossed a dozen pairs af cables with all the satellite and other divices in my 2 home theater rooms.

I try to keep the power chords away from the coax if I can. if you are seeing grounding issues you may have a bad ground somewhere.

-first make sure the coax (antenna, satellite, cable system) coming from outside is properly grounded.
-check your electrical system - outlet, electrical box, wiring, grounding, twist connectors, etc. I installed dedicated electrical lines to the home theater rooms. no lights, appliances just ht gear.
-unplug every component then plug back in one at a time till you find the bugger.

At my place that could take all afternoon!

[WestCoastD]

Originally Posted by Rick0725

At my place that could take all afternoon!

thanks Rick.

yeah, this could take a whole day as well for me.

I live in an old apartment (converted house), so the electrical is sort of old and funky. Actually there are no [normal] 3-prong grounded outlets. So I've cut the ground lead from my pwer-center cords (what!........yes I did). At some point I just have to get my (tight-ass) landlord owner to fork out the cost of replacing a number of outlets with new updated types. Especially since I have a massive computer set-up, and another small A/V system in my bedroom (at least those three outlets). All-in-all things have worked pretty good though over the last few years, have'nt had any dissasters.

Here's a shot of my latest system set-up, it's been an ever-changing monstrosity. notice the wiring "jungle" on the rear........

[bfoster]

Originally Posted by WestCoastD

So I've cut the ground lead from my power-center cords (what!........yes I did)

You CUT the ground prong from a power center?

This would have been cheaper.

Originally Posted by WestCoastD

Here's a shot of my latest system set-up, it's been an ever-changing monstrosity. notice the wiring "jungle" on the rear........

You spent $2000.00 for that!

[WestCoastD]

Originally Posted by bfoster

This would have been cheaper.

I think that thing is more dangerous, hanging plugs every which way

[Targus]

I think that thing is more dangerous, hanging plugs every which way

Because cutting off the SAFETY ground, is so much better?

[WestCoastD]

Originally Posted by Targus

Because cutting off the SAFETY ground, is so much better?

I have no choice, get it? My land-lord is too cheap to spend the money to upgrade the outlets. I may have to just pay and have it done myself.

Either I use a 3-prong to 2-prong adapter, and let the power-center plug hang way out from the outlet- which is dangerous (and still not technically SAFETY grounded), or cut the ground pin so the plug will seat all the way flush to the wall outlet.

Although, I may try to connect a ground wire, from the electrical-box, to my power-center ground terminal.

The adapter (shown above) is still 2-prong, non-grounded, as well- correct? Moreover, it provides for multiple outlets to be connected into one socket. I think that's more dangerous, don't you?

[raouliii]

Originally Posted by WestCoastD

..........Actually there are no [normal] 3-prong grounded outlets. So I've cut the ground lead from my pwer-center cords (what!........yes I did). At some point I just have to get my (tight-ass) landlord owner to fork out the cost of replacing a number of outlets with new updated types............

I wouldn't think that this has created a shock hazard except for powered components that use a three prong plug.

However, this very likely reduces the voltage transient protection of the power center. Voltage transients are most often shunted using MOV devices across hot-neutral, hot-ground and neutral-ground conductors. By diking off the ground prong two of the three transient protection components would be disabled. In this configuration, your equipment is susceptable to damage from voltage spikes. I would recommend running a ground wire to a known ground to alleviate this situation.

[WestCoastD]

Originally Posted by raouliii

However, this very likely reduces the voltage transient protection of the power center. Voltage transients are most often shunted using MOV devices across hot-neutral, hot-ground and neutral-ground conductors. By diking off the ground prong two of the three transient protection components would be disabled. In this configuration, your equipment is susceptable to damage from voltage spikes. I would recommend running a ground wire to a known ground to alleviate this situation.

exactly, thanks for your input.

I was told the same exact thing by a audio shop rep. So I'm working on attatching to a good ground, like maybe on the outlet chassis somewhere, and attatching it to the ground terminal provided on the back of the Monster Power-Center.

[raouliii]

Originally Posted by WestCoastD

exactly, thanks for your input.

I was told the same exact thing by a audio shop rep. So I'm working on attatching to a good ground, like maybe on the outlet chassis somewhere, and attatching it to the ground terminal provided on the back of the Monster Power-Center.

When resolving this, don't assume the outlet box is grounded. AFAIK, when ungrounded receptacles were allowed by the NEC, there was no requirement for running a ground to the outlet box. If the outlet box is metallic and metallic conduit was used for the entire run from the fuse panel to the outlet box, then it may be. I recommend you very carefully verify the ground you decide to use.

Good Luck

[WestCoastD]

Originally Posted by raouliii

I recommend you very carefully verify the ground you decide to use.

look like I'll be getting an electrician out here.