Channel Master 4228 VHF

[habscolts]

I was wondering if there is a distance where the high band VHF of the 4228 starts to outperform the UHF. I am able to receive the only two high band VHF stations from Montreal almost flawlessly but the low-band VHF and UHF registers nothing at all. Montreal is 143 miles from where I live but I think I have a decent shot since I can receive 3 FM stations crystal clear at my house.
Also, is there any reason the 4228 would pick up DTV signals on 13 (10 kw), 14 (380 kW) and 32 (90 kW), but not 43 (47 kW) and 53 (628 kW) when they are all broadcasting from the same mountain 65 miles away? I need to watch some playoff football and not having CBS (53) is killing me

[Rammitinski]

Originally Posted by habscolts

Montreal is 143 miles from where I live but I think I have a decent shot....

!!!

[afiggatt]

Originally Posted by habscolts

I was wondering if there is a distance where the high band VHF of the 4228 starts to outperform the UHF. I am able to receive the only two high band VHF stations from Montreal almost flawlessly but the low-band VHF and UHF registers nothing at all. Montreal is 143 miles from where I live but I think I have a decent shot since I can receive 3 FM stations crystal clear at my house.
Also, is there any reason the 4228 would pick up DTV signals on 13 (10 kw), 14 (380 kW) and 32 (90 kW), but not 43 (47 kW) and 53 (628 kW) when they are all broadcasting from the same mountain 65 miles away? I need to watch some playoff football and not having CBS (53) is killing me

In principle, low band VHF should outperform upper band VHF for long range reception under good conditions. But at 143 miles, you are way outside of the nominal range for TV reception. Way outside. Do you live on a mountain? A high mountain?

As for the DTV stations at 65 miles, they may have different antenna designs and radiate patterns for each of the stations. You are also not picking up the highest UHF stations if those numbers are the actual broadcast channel for the digital signal. The higher you go in UHF, the shorter the wavelength, so those channels won't propagate as well. Another possibility is that there are analog or even digital stations closer to you broadcasting on those 2 channels and interfering with the signal you are trying to lock onto. If you are in the US or live close to the border, you could go to the FCC database and look to see what other stations and translators may be in your area.

Maybe a 91XG would work better?

[habscolts]

Originally Posted by afiggatt

In principle, low band VHF should outperform upper band VHF for long range reception under good conditions. But at 143 miles, you are way outside of the nominal range for TV reception. Way outside. Do you live on a mountain? A high mountain?

As for the DTV stations at 65 miles, they may have different antenna designs and radiate patterns for each of the stations. You are also not picking up the highest UHF stations if those numbers are the actual broadcast channel for the digital signal. The higher you go in UHF, the shorter the wavelength, so those channels won't propagate as well. Another possibility is that there are analog or even digital stations closer to you broadcasting on those 2 channels and interfering with the signal you are trying to lock onto. If you are in the US or live close to the border, you could go to the FCC database and look to see what other stations and translators may be in your area.

Maybe a 91XG would work better?

I'm at the top of a hill at just over 1200 feet. There aren't any hills/mountains much higher than me for a good distance towards Mt. Mansfield, where the Burlington stations are, and if you drew a line from Montreal to my house, it would go right through the Burlington towers. The 4228 has terrible gain in low VHF (-25dB), the two low VHF channels don't come in at all, but I saw on hdtvprimer that it holds its own in the upper VHF. 53 and 43 are both the two closet stations broadcasting on those frequencies. The approximate gain for the antenna on the stations from 65 miles away are 13 (6.6dB), 14 (9dB), 33 (15.4dB), 43 (15.8dB), 53 (15.4).
Looking at the gain and the ERP it doesn't make sense since the two highest gains and the highest ERP doesn't come in when the other 3 do. Could it be the short wavelength of the signal? There are some trees before the clear shot to Mansfield, but not too many. Any suggestions? I have to watch the Colts game in HD next weekend

[Rick0725]

The 4228 has terrible gain in low VHF (-25dB), the two low VHF channels don't come in at all, but I saw on hdtvprimer that it holds its own in the upper VHF. 53 and 43 are both the two closet stations broadcasting on those frequencies. The approximate gain for the antenna on the stations from 65 miles away are 13 (6.6dB), 14 (9dB), 33 (15.4dB), 43 (15.8dB), 53 (15.4).

the gain you are reporting is in dbi. dbd is the standard reference.

dbi=dbd +2.14. deduct 2.14 from all your figures.

ch 13 gain for the cm4228=6.6-2.14= 4.something dbd...nothing special.


nether is ch 14=9-2.14. the 91 xg does 1 dbd better on ch 14 than the cm4228. I have a low power ch 14 here and see the diference with my 91xg. compared performance with the cm4228 months ago.

antennas direct rates their antennas in dbi most others manufacturers use dbd by the way!

If you want to watch the game...try a 91 xg. with a cm7777 preamp...more directional, better front to back ratio, tames multipath better than the bowties, and is a better performer on the higher uhf channels. if you want decent vhf use a vhf antenna.

geography affects digital more than analog. analog carries better than digital.

65 miles is that magic number where signal really starts to drop off because of coverage area and curvature of the earth. I can never depend on antenna tower geometry relationships/mathematics or erp.

fm and tv are 2 different animals...btw.

you may think you have a direct line of site...but in that part of the world there is alot of geography in a 65 mile distance that can mess things up.

it ain't an exact science. so put the calculator away.

[afiggatt]

Are you using a pre-amp? What ATSC tuner are you using? You might need to boost the signal or get a better tuner. If you provide your zip code and the call letters for the stations, we can look up the FCC data on the stations and see what the story is.

If you are desperate enough, give the 91XG a shot. Some here have reported excellent results with it.

[habscolts]

Originally Posted by afiggatt

Are you using a pre-amp? What ATSC tuner are you using? You might need to boost the signal or get a better tuner. If you provide your zip code and the call letters for the stations, we can look up the FCC data on the stations and see what the story is.

If you are desperate enough, give the 91XG a shot. Some here have reported excellent results with it.

I just got a Channnel Master 7777 pre-amp, I haven't tried it yet, I will today. My Samsung TV and my D* H20-600 both have tuners, I've tried on both and I think the TV is a little better. 03766, WCAX is the station I want to get, from the same location I get WPTZ, WETK and WVNY. The other station there that I'd love to get is WFFF but they are broadcasting at an extremely low power.