SACD vs. Hybrid SACD

[peteyglad]

Quick question. I just bought a new SACD/DVD-A player (Denon 1930CI) and have been looking for some of the great releases that have been mentioned in this forum. In doing this I have come across a question.

I was looking at getting Nickel Creek - This Side on SACD. I see they have made it in SACD only and Hybrid SACD. I know what the format designation means but here is my question, is there a difference in quality between the SACD only disc and the SACD found on the Hybrid?

If they are both the same then I will get the Hybrid Audio just so I can play it on my normal cd players.

Thanks

[Kal Rubinson]

I doubt it but it is possible. A hybrid SACD is a regular SACD with a CD-compatible layer. Get the hybrid in case you ever want to play it on a regular CD/DVD player.

[alaskanpilot]

I'm glad I found this thread, becuase I have a very similar question that will probably pertain to the original poster.

I too have a Denon 1930CI, and I am looking to get into SACD's. I have yet to buy my first one. I noticed many are hybrid SACD's, which of course have the SACD layer AND the CD layer on the same side. I started wondering, if I put such a disc into my DVD player, how does it know which layer to read? I finally found a brief article somewhere that stated DVD players won't play SACD on hybrids because DVD players look for the CD layer first. Can anyone confirm or deny this nasty rumor? Most of what I want only seems to be on hybrids, and if my player won't read the SACD layer... I guess I'm hosed.

[KMO]

A pure DVD player wouldn't play CDs at all. A DVD+CD player, as most are, would just play the CD layer and ignore the SACD HD layer.

A DVD+SACD player like the Denon 1930 will have full SACD functionality, and will be able to play the CD layer, and either the 2-channel or multichannel part of the SACD HD layer.

In the case of the 2930, there's a "SUPER AUDIO CD SETUP" button on the front panel and the remote that switches between "MULTI", "STEREO" and "CD"; I assume the 1930 is similar. This should all be in the manual...

[lchiu7]

Originally Posted by KMO

A pure DVD player wouldn't play CDs at all. A DVD+CD player, as most are, would just play the CD layer and ignore the SACD HD layer.

A DVD+SACD player like the Denon 1930 will have full SACD functionality, and will be able to play the CD layer, and either the 2-channel or multichannel part of the SACD HD layer.

In the case of the 2930, there's a "SUPER AUDIO CD SETUP" button on the front panel and the remote that switches between "MULTI", "STEREO" and "CD"; I assume the 1930 is similar. This should all be in the manual...

I am puzzled here. I thought the majority of SACD's were hybrid in that if you put them in a CD player, they would play the 44.1/16 Redbook audio. This was touted as one of the advantages of SACD - universal playability. Since a DVD player can play CD's (it must be rare to have a DVD player that cannot play CD's) wouldn't it also just play the CD player on a SACD?

Before I got a SACD player I put some SACD titles into my Samsung DVD player and it played the redbook audio fine

Larry

[rynberg]

Some labels produce non-hybrids that don't have a CD layer (stupid).

[Sonic icons]

Originally Posted by lchiu7

I am puzzled here. I thought the majority of SACD's were hybrid in that if you put them in a CD player, they would play the 44.1/16 Redbook audio.

That's absolutely correct.

Originally Posted by lchiu7

Since a DVD player can play CD's

As a statement about technology, that's wrong. DVDs and CDs are different physical formats. Ability to read the two formats does not necessary go together. The information layer is in a different part of the disk for DVDs (middle of the disk, from top to bottom) than for CDs (near the top surface). The "marks" that carry the bits of information are different sizes, smaller for DVDs. Even the intended laser wavelength is different for DVDs and CDs (however, the wavelengths are close enough that a "DVD laser" can read CDs too, if the right optics are included in the player).

Originally Posted by lchiu7

(it must be rare to have a DVD player that cannot play CD's)

Correct, but for business strategy / consumer demand reasons, rather than technical reasons. Most consumers want their DVD player to be able to play CDs, because CDs are still by far the widely accepted music format, and it doesn't cost that much to add CD capability to a DVD player.

[ematcion]

Originally Posted by peteyglad

I was looking at getting Nickel Creek - This Side on SACD. I see they have made it in SACD only and Hybrid SACD.

Was there ever 2 different versions of this SACD title?

[ematcion]

Originally Posted by rynberg

Some labels produce non-hybrids that don't have a CD layer (stupid).

Most single-layer SACDs, like those from Sony and Universal, were produced early on due to a lack of manufacturing capacity.

[lchiu7]

Originally Posted by Sonic icons

That's absolutely correct.


As a statement about technology, that's wrong. DVDs and CDs are different physical formats. Ability to read the two formats does not necessary go together. The information layer is in a different part of the disk for DVDs (middle of the disk, from top to bottom) than for CDs (near the top surface). The "marks" that carry the bits of information are different sizes, smaller for DVDs. Even the intended laser wavelength is different for DVDs and CDs (however, the wavelengths are close enough that a "DVD laser" can read CDs too, if the right optics are included in the player).

Correct, but for business strategy / consumer demand reasons, rather than technical reasons. Most consumers want their DVD player to be able to play CDs, because CDs are still by far the widely accepted music format, and it doesn't cost that much to add CD capability to a DVD player.

I realise that DVD and CD are quite different technology and use different laser wavelengths. However my point was, despite the differences, which manufacturer in their right mind would have produced a DVD player that could not play a CD. My first DVD player, a generation one Toshiba, could play CD's.

Note that the new HD players apparently are also capable of playing DVD despite quite significant differences in laser technology and wavelengths. Again not because the technology makes it easy (I am sure it doesn't) but that consumers would hardly want to have to have two units in their cabinets.

Larry

[peteyglad]

Originally Posted by ematcion

Was there ever 2 different versions of this SACD title?

I have found two different versins. Well, they are labelled differetnly. May be just a lack of information on the seller.

I still can't post URL's yet but on eBay right now there is a post for a SACD only This Side and a Hybrid Aduio SACD This Side. Not sure if they are different or the seller just doesn't know the difference.

As for the Denon. It has a "Super Aido CD Set up" button on the remote to switch between cd, SACD stereo and SACD multi channel.

[buc18]

if you are going to get This Side on sacd then you might as well get the first Nickel Creek self titled sacd as well. THey are both very, very nice! Mandolin in multi-channel!!

[peteyglad]

That was my thought exactly. I will most likely pick both of them up.

[KMO]

Originally Posted by lchiu7

I realise that DVD and CD are quite different technology and use different laser wavelengths. However my point was, despite the differences, which manufacturer in their right mind would have produced a DVD player that could not play a CD. My first DVD player, a generation one Toshiba, could play CD's.

Unless I'm mistaken, some of the new HD DVD players don't play CDs...