Pioneer Elite VSX-80TXV A few questions....

[Oniram]

Hi All -

I bought a 40" Samsung 4095 about a month ago. Love the TV, but the speakers on the TV leave much to be desired. So, I found a great deal on some Definitive Tech Power monitor 500's. They are a great size for my NYC apartment, and seeing that they have a powered sub in the speaker, I think they will do nicely for movies, and watching TV, along with being great for just plain stereo listening.

So, I am looking at the Pioneer Elite VSX-80TXV, there are a few good deals on Ebay. (I just cant afford the Levinson or Krell just yet.....but one day.... ) I just want to know what people think of this amp....and if there are any known issues. Furthermore, I have a question on the HDMI inputs/outputs on the amp. I have Time Warner Cable, with a cable box. How do I hook everything together? On the Pioneer site the 80TXV has 2 HDMI inputs and 1 output. If down the road I got a blue ray DVD player, along with a hi-fi SACD player, would I be able to have all the signals running through the HDMI, or would that just be for the video?

Sorry for the long winded nature of this post, but I am just getting into all of the new technology for home theater. I have been an audiophile for years, but the connections for a normal stereo seem so much easier.....when video gets put into the mix, I start to lose understanding......just trying to get a base of knowledge on home theater......but so far I LOVE IT.

Thanks much for any info given.....its quite appreciated.


Regards,

Oniram

[redjr]

Originally Posted by Oniram

Hi All -

I bought a 40" Samsung 4095 about a month ago. Love the TV, but the speakers on the TV leave much to be desired. So, I found a great deal on some Definitive Tech Power monitor 500's. They are a great size for my NYC apartment, and seeing that they have a powered sub in the speaker, I think they will do nicely for movies, and watching TV, along with being great for just plain stereo listening.

So, I am looking at the Pioneer Elite VSX-80TXV, there are a few good deals on Ebay. (I just cant afford the Levinson or Krell just yet.....but one day.... ) I just want to know what people think of this amp....and if there are any known issues. Furthermore, I have a question on the HDMI inputs/outputs on the amp. I have Time Warner Cable, with a cable box. How do I hook everything together? On the Pioneer site the 80TXV has 2 HDMI inputs and 1 output. If down the road I got a blue ray DVD player, along with a hi-fi SACD player, would I be able to have all the signals running through the HDMI, or would that just be for the video?

Sorry for the long winded nature of this post, but I am just getting into all of the new technology for home theater. I have been an audiophile for years, but the connections for a normal stereo seem so much easier.....when video gets put into the mix, I start to lose understanding......just trying to get a base of knowledge on home theater......but so far I LOVE IT.

Thanks much for any info given.....its quite appreciated.


Regards,

Oniram

Oniram,

I'm looking at this receiver too. Would like to get the 81, but due to $$ may have to 'settle' for the 80. I had read somewhere in another thread that the 8300HD DVR (from TWC) does not always play well when first fed to a receiver via HDMI and then out from the receiver to your display device. You realize the 80TXV only acts as a 'pass-thru' for HDMI and there is no up-conversion(you need the 81TVX for that!), so maybe there would not be a problem with your TWC STB.

I have the same 8300HD box from TWC, so would likely face the same dilemma with the HDMI pass-thru. However, I really don't need the pass-thru, but would like the up-conversion of the 81TXV - hence my desire to step up to that model.

[DelsFan]

It is my opinion that the Pioneer Elite VSX-80 is the best receiver for $650 or less. I haven't heard some of the latest offerings by other mfrs (Integra, for one), but I'd suggest that the TSX-80 is better than at least 95% of everything else available for that price or less. Worst case.


"the 80TXV has 2 HDMI inputs and 1 output"

Three inputs would be better, and a year from now new a/v receivers will probably have more HDMI inputs. At your price point though, the TSX-80 would never disappoint.

[redjr]

Originally Posted by DelsFan

It is my opinion that the Pioneer Elite VSX-80 is the best receiver for $650 or less. I haven't heard some of the latest offerings by other mfrs (Integra, for one), but I'd suggest that the TSX-80 is better than at least 95% of everything else available for that price or less. Worst case.


"the 80TXV has 2 HDMI inputs and 1 output"

Three inputs would be better, and a year from now new a/v receivers will probably have more HDMI inputs. At your price point though, the TSX-80 would never disappoint.

DelsFan,

Thanks for your comments...

Well, I'm getting close to decision time and I guess for me it comes down to whether or not I really need the up-conversion offered by the 81 for the price difference. I think that's the only real difference. The short answer is no, since I have multiple digital inputs on my Westy and am more than happy with my current 5.1 analog in - which is offered by both the 80 and 81. I think the 80TXV would suit me well with my current media-room setup, it's just I always have the tendency to want to step up a model for the benefit of 'future-proofing' my purchase - if it's within a reasonable amount of my budget. Doesn't always work out that way though.

[Stephen Hopkins]

There are a few reasons I would not buy the 80TXv... first off the HDMI switch is only passthrough... not only does it lack conversion of analog sources to HDMI, it also lacks the ability to handle audio over HDMI... all it does is switch video. This means no LPCM for lossless audio formats (DVD-A, SACD, HD-DVD, BluRay) and no convinient one-cable hookup. The second reason is the 80TXv is simply a Pioneer 1016TXv... I don't see the point of paying more for the piano black finish, especially if you're buying online and Pioneer won't honor the warranty. If buying online you're better off saving the money and getting the 1016TXv or getting something like the Onkyo SR804 that fully handles HDMI audio and video and is available for $650 from an authorized dealer (accessories4less.com).

It may sound like I'm a Pioneer Elite hater but this is far from the case... I just replaced a 1014TX w/ an 82TXs. I just see the 80TXv and even the 1016TXv as a week entry into HDMI receivers... especially w/ receivers like the Onkyo 604, 674, 804, Marantz 4001, 5001, Denon 2307CI/887, and 2807/987 that fully handle HDMI properly. I'd look elsewhere at that price point. I'd also buy somewhere the warranty is not in question (and I'm an avid eBay shopper).

[redjr]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins

There are a few reasons I would not buy the 80TXv... first off the HDMI switch is only passthrough... not only does it lack conversion of analog sources to HDMI, it also lacks the ability to handle audio over HDMI... all it does is switch video. This means no LPCM for lossless audio formats (DVD-A, SACD, HD-DVD, BluRay) and no convinient one-cable hookup. The second reason is the 80TXv is simply a Pioneer 1016TXv... I don't see the point of paying more for the piano black finish, especially if you're buying online and Pioneer won't honor the warranty. If buying online you're better off saving the money and getting the 1016TXv or getting something like the Onkyo SR804 that fully handles HDMI audio and video and is available for $650 from an authorized dealer (accessories4less.com).

It may sound like I'm a Pioneer Elite hater but this is far from the case... I just replaced a 1014TX w/ an 82TXs. I just see the 80TXv and even the 1016TXv as a week entry into HDMI receivers... especially w/ receivers like the Onkyo 604, 674, 804, Marantz 4001, 5001, Denon 2307CI/887, and 2807/987 that fully handle HDMI properly. I'd look elsewhere at that price point. I'd also buy somewhere the warranty is not in question (and I'm an avid eBay shopper).

Stephen,

Okay, I'm beginning to feel like a flip-flopper! You have some good points, and several of the receivers you mention including the 604 have been on my list of viable receivers at my price point. I now just need to make up my mind and bite the bullet.

Thanks again for your comments.

[sandor]

Im also looking at the 80/81 but i didnt think the 81 had upscaling...does it? i also agree the hdmi single cable is the advantage - that just makes sense to me. lastly - the 81 comes with the ipod dock - not that i have an ipod but its 80 bucks and you could prob ebay that and recover a few dollars. The 81 online can be had for cheap also - i dont see anything for 650-700 that competes with the 81....do you?

my hesitation is that i have a vsx33 - and i dont know if there is any better surround processing so i dont know if its worth the upgrade for a few more watts per channel.

any thoughs?

agree the 80 is a pretty 1016.....id compare the 2 and if you can only get that save a few dollars and get the 1016. or ill sell you my elite 33 hehe JK.

[redjr]

Originally Posted by sandor

Im also looking at the 80/81 but i didnt think the 81 had upscaling...does it? i also agree the hdmi single cable is the advantage - that just makes sense to me. lastly - the 81 comes with the ipod dock - not that i have an ipod but its 80 bucks and you could prob ebay that and recover a few dollars. The 81 online can be had for cheap also - i dont see anything for 650-700 that competes with the 81....do you?

my hesitation is that i have a vsx33 - and i dont know if there is any better surround processing so i dont know if its worth the upgrade for a few more watts per channel.

any thoughs?

agree the 80 is a pretty 1016.....id compare the 2 and if you can only get that save a few dollars and get the 1016. or ill sell you my elite 33 hehe JK.

The 81 DOES do up-conversion of video. The 80 does not. I'm now doing more research on the Onkyo 604 - which started it all. I then saw the PIO 80 thinking it would serve my needs - which it would, but the 81 looked much better albeit at a little higher price point.

On the plus side, I can go buy it tomorrow! CC has the 604 on sale this week I believe - at a very competitive price. I'm going to go look at it tomorrow.

[DelsFan]

"agree the 80 is a pretty 1016"

Hmmm. I'd suggest that the Elite would sound better, hands down, than the 1016. $150 better? I'd not argue that point without having heard them in a controlled environment. And, I'm not going to take the time to do that .


I'd like to revise and extend my remark:
"It is my opinion that the Pioneer Elite VSX-80 is the best receiver for $650 or less."
Let me say that it is my opinion that the Pioneer Elite VSX-80 is the best sounding receiver for $650 or less.

Let me also suggest that I didn't understand the "upconverting" that a receiver does - THANKS VERY MUCH, Stephen, for explaining it. I was thinking like an upconverting DVD player, not taking the analog video signal from composite inputs and converting it to a digital signal to be sent out via the HDMI outputs. THEREFORE, if that is a concern, the low end Pioneer Elite VSX-80 might disappoint some people with its lack of functionality in their system (with, I assume, older cable boxes and DVD players that have component video out but no HDMI).

Concerning the Onkyo receivers, I understand they are decent, but I'd suggest that their higher end Integra receivers would sound better. Of course, like the Elite units, they cost more than their little brothers do. I'd do Integra over Onkyo and Elite over regular Pioneer. But, I'm not on a budget and I am a (recovering?) audiophile.
.

[Stephen Hopkins]

The Elite 80TXv will NOT sound ANY better than a 1016TXv... they are the same unit other than the piano black finish... NO diffrent. Both have the major hinderance of not reading AUDIO over HDMI... which eliminates the ability to play player-decoded losless formats such as Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD which are transmitted in LPCM over the HDMI connection along with video.

As for Onkyo, they're great sounding receivers... I'd take the SR804 over a 1016TX / 80TXv any day... not just for proper implementation of HDMI... the SR804 is a steal at $650 w/ a very strong amp section and Audysee room setup/eq that's more advanced than the version of MCACC included in the 80TXv/1016TXv (as well as the 81TXv).

This is all coming from an 82TXs owner, not a Pioneer-basher. If I hadn't been given the higher-end 82TXs then the Onkyo SR804 would have been the route I'd have taken.

[sandor]

Im checkin out the 80 vs 81 - and it seems like the 81 does have conversion, but does NOT have scaling......I wonder if its listed incorrectly on the website. I think the ipod link is a plus if you need it - but the Onkyo TXSR804 does look ok - although I dont know what to do if I have to decide between the vsx81 and Onkyo TXSR804. I wonder how much better these 2 will sound vs. my vsx33 that I have now. Maybe im better off investing in a 1080p set - and waiting on the receiver for the time being.

[Stephen Hopkins]

The 81TXv is correctly listed as having upconversion but not scaling. You have to move to the 82TXs and 84TXsi to get scaling. If I were deciding I would take the SR804 almost on looks alone... since Pioneer and Elite dropped the door on their lower end models I've been much less than impressed w/ how they look, much more cluttered. The 81TXv's version of Auto-MCACC is also not as robust as the 82TXs, 84TXsi, and SR804's Audysee auto-eq.

[sandor]

now im eyeing the 82 lol....ummm this started off as a cheap thing . I need to hear the denon i guess to really make a good decesion, the power ratings are similar, ill check the features. does the denon upscale or just convert like the 81? what are some other PLUSs aside the calibration , or advantages to the 81 aside the included ipod doc? the elite seems premier where as that model denon seems mainstream, no?

[Stephen Hopkins]

I'm not sure which Denon you're talking about (I would assume the 2307CI/887 or 2807/987).

If you're refering to the Onkyo SR804 then it converts analog sources to HDMI as well as deinterlacing from 480i to 480p. As for Onkyo being too "mainstream" I would not let that be a concern. Pioneer is one of the few receiver manufactures that still starkly differentiates between their lower to mid-grade lines and their upper end. Denon has never done this... Yamaha has the HTR and RX-V lines but this refers more to the distribution chanels than the quality, they're the same models... Onkyo does have Integra but they have very small distribution channels and often the Integra models can be inferior despite higher prices. Models like the D811s & Elite VSX-41, 1014TX & Elite 52TX, and now the 1016TXv & 80TXv show that, atleast in the middle-ground, Elite's differentiation from the standard Pioneer line is slowly fading.

[sandor]

sorry - i meant onkyo. i think i like the idea of upscaling from i to p for standard def tv, considering alot of broadcasts are till 480i. i guess i have to listen to the onkyo. i listened to my friends 2700 yamaha and i liked it, again though i dont know if the newer stuff will sound any better then my 33. DD and DTS processing i dont think has changed that much, weather it does soon with dolbyHD perhaps but at the moment the processing of the early 2000s till know i cant see being that different.

ill go listen to the onkyo.....wish i could bring them all home hehehe. does the onkyo have bi-wiring cause i have mirage speakers and ive never used to 4 post deal....

[Chaosphere482]

I would bet the 80TXV would sound better than the 1016TX. I say this only because the 80TXV sounds better than the 1015 and the 1015 and 1016 probably sound more alike than the 1016 and the 80. I've owned both AVRs (1015, and 80) tested against the same equipment. If the difference in sound quality is worth $150 is up to the beholder. Minus multi-channel PCM, saying the 1016 and 80 are the same is basically saying a 1016 and 81 are the same because the 81 is basically an 80 with HDMI upconversion and audio processing. So if you aren't going to get a high-def player then there is no point getting an 81 and might as well "settle" for a 1016? I would doubt that. There is a difference. I do agree that the 81 is a better deal than the 80 and if you are going to get a high def player then I wouldn't really make sense to get an 80.

[redjr]

Well, I convinced myself that the Onkyo 604 would suit my needs and pair up nicely with the rest of my equipment. I haven't got it hooked up yet, as I'm doing some re-configuring of my rack and adding a couple more shelves. CC honored their website price and using another coupon I had, I was able to walk out the store for less than 5 bills - including tax. In this case, should I have to return it for some reason, it's nice to have a brick-n-mortar store down the road.

This is my 1st Onkyo, so I hope I'm pleasantly surprised with the sound and operation of the receiver. While I'm not sure I'll be using the HDMI ports to start, it's good to know they're there. I'll also only be using 5.1 to start with until I can pick up a couple of side speakers. Do I need 7.1 to experience TrueHD?

I also like the fact that it includes both XM and iPod ready ports. I'm a big XM fan so I'll definitely pick up a miniXM tuner. Hopefully I'll get the 604 installed and set up by tomorrow evening. My son wants to take part during the hook up!

Thanks again for all the helpful comments and recommendations.

[Stephen Hopkins]

The 1015TX is a very minor update to the 1014TX which is IDENTICAL to the 52TX. The 80TXv IS identical to the 1016TXv. Any difference you hear between the 80TXv and 1015TX is the same difference you would hear between the 1016TXv and 1015TX. Some of it is likely due to the slightly more advanced version of MCACC... though most of it is probably psycho-accoustic. Internally there are no differences in the amp sections, processing, or power supplies of the 1016TXv and 80TXv, this has been verified to my by a regional Pioneer rep (the folks the dealers buy from)... they're built on the exact same line. The same is likely true for the 81TXv with the only differences in HDMI processing.

[Chaosphere482]

Not saying that you are wrong but I also talked to a Pioneer rep and he told me that the 1015 and 1016 were more similiar and the 80 used better parts. Hmm....

[Stephen Hopkins]

The 1014TX, 1015TX, and 52TX all use MOSFET amplification... the 1016TXv and 80TXv have dropped MOSFET. The 1014TX, 1015TX, and 52TX have the same version of Auto-MCACC (5 band fixed-frequency EQ) while the 1016TXv and 80TXv have slightly more advanced versions. The only difference between the 1014TX/52TX and the 1015TX is the addition of a 3rd component video input and THX Select 2 processing over THX Select (basicly adding "Game" mode). Pioneer has done this for the past 3 to 4 model lines, it's nothing new...

VSX-D810s = VSX-41
VSX-1014TX = VSX-52TX
VSX-1015TX = (no direct counterpart, 52TX carried over 2yrs)
VSX-1016TXv = VSX-80TX

There are a few other minor features the Elites usually have such as RS232 and/or Zone-2 opperation.

[Chaosphere482]

If you look at the manuals for both receivers you will see that under a 6ohm load, 1.0% THD, 1khz the 1016TX is rated at 120WpC while the 80TXV is rated at 150WpC.

[Stephen Hopkins]

Ratings don't mean a whole lot... Pioneer always rates the Elite models higer than the non-elites. They'll also rate the higher-end of two similar receivers higher... i.e. the 53TX rated as 110 x 7, 55TXi rated as 120 x 7 when they both had the exact same amp section.

[redjr]

OK. I've had my Onkyo 604 fully operational for a couple of days and was wondering if stepping up to the Pio 81TXV is worth the extra $$. I'm sorta happy with the 604, but I find the display lacking in more detailed info I would prefer to see. My old $300 JVC provided more info on the display. The build quality is just not up to my standards either, and the bland look of the receiver won't turn any heads. I can still return it with no questions asked.

My question is; The Pio 81 provides 20 more watts of power, audio over HDMI, and upconversion of non-digital video to HDMI output, with about the same number of inputs, outputs, HDMI, optical, coax, etc. The Pio is 3" deeper, and weighs 10 more lbs! All that can't be 20 more watts of power and upconversion circuirty. The Pio also has much more iconic info on the display. Would this starter Elite model be worth an upgrade from the 604?

Just curious what others think.

[Stephen Hopkins]

I'd say the Onkyo SR804 would be a better choice than the 81TXv... you mention asthetics being important and in my opinion the 81TXv looks like a jumbled mess of buttons (this is coming from an 82TXs owner). The 81TXv would be an upgrade from the 604... but I don't think it'll be worth it for sound and build alone... I'd look to the SR804 for the best value in the $650 range with a better auto-eq system, equivalent amp section and features, and perhaps the asthetics you're looking for (minus the gloss-black finish).

[redjr]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins

I'd say the Onkyo SR804 would be a better choice than the 81TXv... you mention asthetics being important and in my opinion the 81TXv looks like a jumbled mess of buttons (this is coming from an 82TXs owner). The 81TXv would be an upgrade from the 604... but I don't think it'll be worth it for sound and build alone... I'd look to the SR804 for the best value in the $650 range with a better auto-eq system, equivalent amp section and features, and perhaps the asthetics you're looking for (minus the gloss-black finish).

Stephen,

Thanks for your comments. Actually, I don't mind the look of the 81. And button availability and ease of use is paramount in my case. I just don't like the selector buttons on the Onkyo models. One could argue that if you use the remote - who cares. I do. It's a personal thing. In addition, the 81 offers a much better display IMO visually indicating the type of signal, surround mode, etc. And the remote looks like it's a winner too.

On a technical note, I'm also experiencing 'pixelation breakup' on some HD channels from my 8300HD DVR when fed thru the 604 via component video, whereas before, when my HD STB was connected to my HDTV directly I didn't have this issue. This is routinely occurring on HBO-HD and MTVHD. This concerns me. Video and sound over HDMI is perfect. Perhaps this could be component-video cable related, but I did buy some nice short cables from Monoprice. However, it doesn't happen on all HD channels, therefore I'm assuming it's related to bandwidth problems. Can the 604 handle 1080i over component-video correctly? 720p channels come through fine.

Anyway, back on topic. I've had more than one Pioneer receiver since my college dayz back in the 70's and like their products. The Elite series 81 would certainly be an upgrade for me(read OVER budget), yet the build quality and aesthetics seems to be more in line with my expectations. The 804 doesn't appeal to me either since it's 'look-n-feel' is much like the 604.

[xps]

Guys:

Been through this whole conversation in reality over the past three weeks. Spent so much time researching the tv (got a PIO PDP 5070) I totally blew it on the receiver selection - Just found this web site as well!

Love the Pio plasma - technology being a "moment in time" purchase for Jan / 2007 I am happy with the decision. Decided to upgrade the whole system (had a kenwood DTS system I bought five years ago). Wanted to stay with Pio to use the multi system remote connection (SR+). Spent time reading reviews on C-net and decided against the 1016tx because it did not have the full HDMI. So like an idiot I upgraded online with PEWERSELERSNYC and got the TVX80 ELITE for $450
thinking "of course its full HDMI - sure it must have Ipod capabilities"
Yeah - well that did not happen.

What I have learned - The VSX80 is different than the 1016 in heat shield, casing blah blah blah - no difference in features.
The ipod dock alone is $150.
Worst thing!! Because it is not a full hdmi when switching inputs (tv-dvd) the screen goes dark and you then have to search the video inputs on the remote to match the video with the audio a drag for my wife and teenage daughters.
So why buy the VSX80? - Nice ELITE emblem on the front panel - not enough?
Then either go for the 81 or buy the 1016!!
Pete

[redjr]

Except for the obvious differences between a digital transmission and analog, is there any benefit/difference between audio via digital(Toslink/Coaxial), and analog multi-channel 5.1. IOW, do they both support the garden variety of surround modes available in most AVRs?

[Chaosphere482]

Originally Posted by xps

Guys:

Been through this whole conversation in reality over the past three weeks. Spent so much time researching the tv (got a PIO PDP 5070) I totally blew it on the receiver selection - Just found this web site as well!

Love the Pio plasma - technology being a "moment in time" purchase for Jan / 2007 I am happy with the decision. Decided to upgrade the whole system (had a kenwood DTS system I bought five years ago). Wanted to stay with Pio to use the multi system remote connection (SR+). Spent time reading reviews on C-net and decided against the 1016tx because it did not have the full HDMI. So like an idiot I upgraded online with PEWERSELERSNYC and got the TVX80 ELITE for $450
thinking "of course its full HDMI - sure it must have Ipod capabilities"
Yeah - well that did not happen.

What I have learned - The VSX80 is different than the 1016 in heat shield, casing blah blah blah - no difference in features.
The ipod dock alone is $150.
Worst thing!! Because it is not a full hdmi when switching inputs (tv-dvd) the screen goes dark and you then have to search the video inputs on the remote to match the video with the audio a drag for my wife and teenage daughters.
So why buy the VSX80? - Nice ELITE emblem on the front panel - not enough?
Then either go for the 81 or buy the 1016!!
Pete

For those that aren't going to get Blue Ray or HD DVD then there is little reason to choose the 81 over th 80. The 80 does have different features than the 1016 (Multi-room/Multi-source, 12V triggers....to name a few).

"Worst thing!! Because it is not a full hdmi when switching inputs (tv-dvd) the screen goes dark and you then have to search the video inputs on the remote to match the video with the audio a drag for my wife and teenage daughters."

I'm pretty sure the 81 will do the exact same thing. If you read the audiohics review on the 82 I think the reviewer griped about the same issue you were having.

[xps]

I hope not - It should be seemless - How hard can it be?

[sandor]

I have to say I cant agree about the 80/81.

I think (not 100%) but the 81 has audio and video through hdmi, also uses a different processing engine, also comes with the ipod dock (audio only but still 80 bucks I think) and a different MCACC (U think more advanced). Also has video conversion - not upscaling but still an added feature. Its a better deal if you need it and can swing it. I am still in limbo about going to an 81 from my vsx33 - not sure the dolby processing is any different/better even though its at least 5 years old. I may upgrade anyway - just feel the need to