The Official: Denon 3808ci & 4308ci HDMI 1.3 thread.

[eightninesuited]

Posted on http://www.hometheaterblog.com/

February 6, 2007
Follow Up: Denon’s HDMI 1.3 Receivers

Back in November Audio DesignLine unveiled some of the first details surrounding (pun intended) Denon’s forthcoming A/V receivers with HDMI 1.3 support, we now have a few more tentative details about the new ‘08’ series of receivers from Denon. It appears as if the receivers will be rolled out in two waves, the first wave in July will include the AVR-4308ci and AVR-3808ci with the AVR-1508, AVR-1708 and AVR-2808 following in September.

Again these are tentative details but should remain accurate baring any last minute launch snafus. The AVR-4308ci ($2,499) will sport four HDMI 1.3 inputs with two parallel HDMI outputs, support for internal Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD audio decoding over HDMI, auto lip-sync correction, 8-position Audyssey MultEQ, Ethernet & Wi-Fi capabilities for internet radio and presumably support for Windows Media PlaysForSure functionality. The 4308 will also support second zone component video output and digital to analog conversion for multi-zone applications.

The AVR-3808ci (also tentatively expected in July) will retail for $1,599 and features four HDMI 1.3 inputs, support for internal Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD audio decoding over HDMI, auto lip-sync correction, 6-position Audyssey MultEQ, Ethernet connectivity and again presumably support for Windows Media PlaysForSure. The 3808ci also supports digital to analog conversion for multi-zone applications. Both the AVR-4308ci and AVR-3808ci are said to have had their on-screen graphical interfaces redesigned as well.

The second wave of receivers in September will include the AVR-1508, AVR-1708 and AVR-2808 (no pricing as yet). The AVR-1508 AVR-1708 will support HDMI 1.3 but ‘switching mode’ only, in a nutshell that means that they will support HDMI audio, ‘Deep Color’ and 1080p pass-through but not internal Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD processing, although you can still achieve lossless audio from Blu-ray and HD DVD output as PCM from the players over HDMI.

The AVR-2808’s HDMI 1.3 path is said to offer the same functionality as the AVR-4308ci and AVR-3808ci, i.e. internal Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD decoding as well as auto lip-sync correction. Good stuff indeed, I can’t wait to get my hands on the AVR-3808ci.

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The price for the 3808 sounds sweet and that will be my receiver this year! Both Dolby True HD and DTS MA decoders. Stay tuned for official pics as they come.

[dmccombs]

No 4808ci?

[mannoiaj]

wow, some great connectivity with the hdmi 1.3. Hopefully, 1.3 will end it for a while so that so many consumers don't have to worry about continually having to change receivers and having to use analog outputs to get hd surround formats. Denon is always at the forefront of delivering the goodies that so many crave, however, I just don't like the way they sound

[eightninesuited]

Originally Posted by mannoiaj

wow, some great connectivity with the hdmi 1.3. Hopefully, 1.3 will end it for a while so that so many consumers don't have to worry about continually having to change receivers and having to use analog outputs to get hd surround formats. Denon is always at the forefront of delivering the goodies that so many crave, however, I just don't like the way they sound

1.3 is the new phase of HDMI chips. There will be 1.4 1.5 etc... but they will build upon what 1.3 has.

[mannoiaj]

1.3 is the new phase of HDMI chips. There will be 1.4 1.5 etc... but they will build upon what 1.3 has.

ya, so why don't they just have hdmi that can do 1080P and all the HD surround formats through the same cable and call it a day? I have been running dolby digital through an optical output on my receiver for 5+ years now, I wouldn't have been happy if every year they switched to optical1.1, 1.2, 1.3, etc... I basically know the answer here, just whining like a school girl; forgive me anyhow, I hope this new phase of HDMI chips works out well for the consumer!

[TimV]

These both sound pretty nice.

At this point, it doesn't make sense not to wait for one of these. My current receiver is the AVR-5700 which I've had since 1999.

What's a few more months at this point?

BTW, where are people buying their Denon units these days? Is there a good online dealer? Thanks.

[eightninesuited]

Originally Posted by mannoiaj

ya, so why don't they just have hdmi that can do 1080P and all the HD surround formats through the same cable and call it a day? I have been running dolby digital through an optical output on my receiver for 5+ years now, I wouldn't have been happy if every year they switched to optical1.1, 1.2, 1.3, etc... I basically know the answer here, just whining like a school girl; forgive me anyhow, I hope this new phase of HDMI chips works out well for the consumer!

That's like asking "Why don't LCD tvs have the response time and black levels of CRT?"

What did you expect them to say? Don't buy our 1.1 receivers now because we're coming out with 1.3 spec stuff?

[dmclone]

I was set on getting an SR7001 now I'm wondering whether I should wait. I think in the end the SR7001 is going to do everything I need it to do. You have to jump in sometime and I'm not going to let HDMI slow me down.

[TrzVpr]

Any information on their upscaling abilities and scaling chip if any?

[mannoiaj]

Originally Posted by eightninesuited

That's like asking "Why don't LCD tvs have the response time and black levels of CRT?"

What did you expect them to say? Don't buy our 1.1 receivers now because we're coming out with 1.3 spec stuff?

No, If my hard earned money is involved, I would be less apt to spend it on such a fast moving target (hdmi). I have a denon 3805 now, was looking to get a receiver "upgrade" to take advantage of hdmi switching etc.. but I think I'll spend my money on a more stationary piece of gear such as a power amp. Sorry to dilute the thread if thats what I did, just not sold on hdmi's compatibility and constant upgrading to a better version. Obviously I would want the version of hdmi that was compatible to w/e I own now and maybe in the next year 2.

LCD and CRT tv's both will display a picture (to each their own as to which they like better), some of these versions of hdmi won't produce a picture or sound through some hdmi receivers and source devices.

[DaveFi]

Hmm, I guess the AVR-2808 is their "low end" HDMI 1.3 receiver right now, and I suspect by the current pricing it will come in at around $999 MSRP. Too bad we'll have to wait so long and it's out of my price range just for my purposes.

Hopefully other manufacturers will jump in with true low-mid range HDMI 1.3 receivers before Sep.

[bullgates]

I like the parallel HDMI outputs.

[bwclark]

The "OFFICIAL" 4308CI thread can be found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=788094

[vdmai]

Alright, finally. 4308CI for me to use as a pre/pro. What doe parallel output for HDMI? Does it mean both simultaneous HDMI outputs so we can same picture to two displays at the same time?

[bullgates]

Originally Posted by vdmai

What doe parallel output for HDMI? Does it mean both simultaneous HDMI outputs so we can same picture to two displays at the same time?

That's what it would seem to suggest from the article.

[KMO]

Originally Posted by mannoiaj

ya, so why don't they just have hdmi that can do 1080P and all the HD surround formats through the same cable and call it a day?

They do. It's called HDMI 1.1.

Please read the "Why you don't need HDMI 1.3" thread.

[QZ1]

Originally Posted by DaveFi

Hmm, I guess the AVR-2808 is their "low end" HDMI 1.3 receiver right now, and I suspect by the current pricing it will come in at around $999 MSRP. Too bad we'll have to wait so long and it's out of my price range just for my purposes.

Hopefully other manufacturers will jump in with true low-mid range HDMI 1.3 receivers before Sep.

3806 is $1300
3808 will be $1600

2807 is $1100
2808 will be ???

2808 will likely not be less ($1000, as you suggest), rather it would be more than $1100.

Maybe your guess was based on thinking of the 2307, which is $800.

[ryoohki]

Getting the 3808 for sure, i wanted a Receiver with internal DD TrueHD and DTS HD for future use since my old yamaha is still nice but lack HDMI in..

[slimoli]

Originally Posted by KMO

They do. It's called HDMI 1.1.

Please read the "Why you don't need HDMI 1.3" thread.

My Pioneer receiver (74) has HDMI 1.1 but can't pass 1080P. Why is that?

Tks

Sergio

[Petrucci]

What will be the advantage of using the truehd decoder on the receiver rather than on the hd-dvd player ?

[Bob Pariseau]

Originally Posted by slimoli

My Pioneer receiver (74) has HDMI 1.1 but can't pass 1080P. Why is that?

Tks

Sergio

1080p support is optional for HDMI V1.1 devices. Some receivers don't support it at all, some simply pass it through without using it in any way. Some use it, or process it, but in more limited ways than what they do with lower resolution signals. And some use and process 1080p to the full degree they do with lower resolution signals.

HDMI -- all versions -- ENABLES many things. But it is up to each manufacturer to decide which features they actually implement in any given product, and how well they implement them.

Even with HDMI V1.3, you'll need to check product specifications very carefully to figure out exactly what each device supports.

Also be aware that not all 1080p is the same. It comes in different frame rates. For example there are Pioneer plasmas out there now which accept 1080p/24Hz input but do not accept the higher bandwidth 1080p/60Hz signal.

Caveat emptor.
--Bob

[sdurani]

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau

1080p support is optional for HDMI V1.1 devices.

Even with HDMI V1.3, you'll need to check product specifications very carefully to figure out exactly what each device supports.

Indeed, since 1080p support is optional for HDMI v1.3 devices too:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...86#post9508386

Sanjay

[mannoiaj]

bunch of crap imo... hdmi 1. whatever decides what their going to support and what their not going to support??? how do i kick hdmi in the nuts? this guy is not cool

[UxiSXRD]

I'm thinking 3808 sounds perfect. Hopefully they'll have it in silver!

[eightninesuited]

Originally Posted by Petrucci

What will be the advantage of using the truehd decoder on the receiver rather than on the hd-dvd player ?

Possibly. There are some claiming that the True HD decoders on the Toshiba players aren't decoding them losslessly.

[pedra12]

Hmmm...I was looking into the 2807 as my new receiver, but I may check out the 2808 later this year for the TrueHD and DTS-HD decoding.

[vdmai]

$500 more for the 4308CI vs. the current 4306. WOW!! I hope there's more features, better sounding, and GOLD plated connectors!!!

[UxiSXRD]

It does seem a bit high seeing that the 3808CI sounds far more capable than the 4306... and has the same amount of HDMI (4) as the 4308CI.

It sounds like the things the 4308 has over the 3808 would be the dual "parallel" HDMI output, wifi, 8 position Audyssey versus 6 position, and the multi-zone Analog/Digital conversion...

While I would like the wifi the rest of it isn't important to me at all and I would choose the 3808 easily since it's much cheaper. Right now, I've always leaned on the 4306 but would settle for the 3806 since it's cheaper, but grudgingly since it's less capable...

[dmcdayton]

I agree price is too high. I was planning 4308 route just to get better amp and networking capabilities. Another $500 kind of puts it out of consideration. Considering how locked in pricing is with Denon (from authorized dealers that is) I think they're pricing themselves out of competition with that feature set. If it had 6 HDMI, Improved AMP, ability to run Slim Server and act as a media center hub? Then I'd consider it.

Actually I'm tired of waiting, I'm not sure all this hype is worth it. I'm thinking of getting a $500 Pioneer, Squeezebox and an Infrant NAS instead of waiting on a Denon AVR. I'll probably get more bang for my buck with that setup.

I mean come on Denon, isn't that kind of price gouging knowing that everyone is waiting to buy your new receiver, basically to get massive HDMI bug fix ( which is what HDMI1.3 amounts to) and then jack the prices? How many people really need multi-room capability? For that price, you could almost buy 2 3808s if one was inclined. Why not just build great single room AVRs with all the bells and whistles (great amp, 6 HDMI, etc) and sell it for $1500 and have $500, $1000 models to hit the lower price points. Instead they build 15 different models and pack it full of stuff few will use but only the most expensive units have all the "necessary" features.

If you look at practically any other electronics business, the feature set grows every year while the price stays flat or drops. What a big freaking rip off, $500 more for what amounts to software revisions (HDMI1.3, improved networking GUI). What are they thinking!!!!!


Whew.

Ok, now when's it shipping?

[Dave Moritz]

While the 4308 is rather pricey I want to see the full set of features and amp specifications on both the 4308 and the 3808 before deciding. For myself $2k is really pushing it but I might just take the plunge and spend the extra $500 anyway.

There are two other brands (Marantz & Pioneer Elite) that I will be considering but Denon currently holds a edge over the others so far, I just really love there product. If I spend $2500 on a Denon I have no intention of replacing it for at least 8 - 10 years minimum, maybe longer?