Blue Ridge Sound Engineering Speakers ???

[HiFiSoundGuy]

Has anyone heard these speakers yet? It takes awhile to down load http://www.blueridgesoundeng.com

[HiFiSoundGuy]

I found more on these speakers here.... It looks like there going to be a review on these speakers soon... http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/ar...f-5-p-114.html

[Lindahl]

Looks like they use pretty cheap drivers:
TN28 - $13, has some distortion issues, unless carefully avoided
B4Ns - $30, not the greatest choice in midranges
Peerless SLS 8" - $60, decent choice (I may have the wrong driver, here)

All stuffed into an enclosure of about 30 liters - very small for a ported enclosure with these drivers, which will introduce tuning issues (see the humps in the bass) as well as introducing resonance issues, especially when it weighs only 30 lbs (an indication of minimal bracing).

I highly doubt the midranges are in their own enclosure, separated from the woofer, which will cause some driver interference (see the roughness in the midrange).

Then there's the fact that they're using two midranges, but with the distance between the tweeter and the lower midrange being completely unacceptable for the crossover frequency required for the TN28 to sound good. This will result in lots of problematic combing, or interference, which they gloss over by using graphs with an undisclosed smoothing resolution - from looking at the humps in the bass, looks like well beyond 1/3rd octave smoothing. Who knows what other problems their level of smoothing hides.

Crossover design is unknown, and critical.

They also proclaim over and over again that a flat frequency response means it'll sound good, completely ignoring power handling, sensitivity, distortion, driver integration, group delay, and countless of other measurements that matter just as much.

To put it lightly, I'm not impressed by the design, engineering or marketing of the speakers, especially for $1999/pr - a few of their choices and statements scream amatuer... but I can't comment on how they'd sound without having heard them.

[cschang]

Lindahl....where do they list the components used?

Originally Posted by Lindahl

They also proclaim over and over again on their webpage that a flat frequency response means it'll sound good, completely ignoring power handling, sensitivity, distortion measurements, group delay, and countless of other measurements that matter just as much.

Agreed.

[Lindahl]

Originally Posted by cschang

Lindahl....where do they list the components used?

They don't, but they are quite recognizable as HiVi (see the links I added after my last edit). The woofer I'm not completely sure on, but it does appear to be the Peerless SLS 8". They claim an 16mm xmax, saying that they own some 18" woofers would choke with that much excursion. A laughable claim, considering the 16 xmax is a point-point, and not linear, and surely they mean the 18" woofer would choke on an 16 xmax linear, and not point-point. Not to mention, an 18" woofer has much more Sd (surface area) than an 8" driver, which is just as beneficial as excursion (if not, more so).

[cschang]

I was just wondering if I missed something.

Got to admit, for the price, kind of hard to justify what you get. Cabinet work is not cheap, but still doesn't seem like a great value considering what Salk does.

I'd like to hear them though....maybe there is some magic in them. I have heard speakers with very nice drivers that didn't sound that great, and vice versa.

[Lindahl]

Originally Posted by cschang

I'd like to hear them though....maybe there is some magic in them. I have heard speakers with very nice drivers that didn't sound that great, and vice versa.

No harm in hearing another speaker, but it's got many more problems than just the drivers. Like I said, the engineering screams amateur. The drivers is just the easiest bone to pick.

[videoaddikt]

They ain't cheap for something that might come off amateurish. Well, at least they are not selling out of white vans. Be interesting to see what the reviews say. I doubt many would be available for personal auditions.

[schticker]

ID is teh shiznorz

[tonygeno]

Originally Posted by schticker

ID is teh shiznorz

Another helpful post. Keep 'em coming!

[videoaddikt]

I thought somebody just blew their nose.. LOL

[quadriverfalls]

Originally Posted by videoaddikt

I thought somebody just blew their nose.. LOL

With him you're never quite sure....

[schticker]

Originally Posted by videoaddikt

They ain't cheap for something that might come off amateurish.

No, but the retail value of these is like 3k a speaker! It's an amazing value! (I think I just threw up a little)

Well, at least they are not selling out of white vans. Be interesting to see what the reviews say. I doubt many would be available for personal auditions.

Depends on the critic and the audience.

[videoaddikt]

Let's see, we have Blue Ridge, North Creek (reputable as far as I know), Creek (also), etc. I think I'll hold out for Bubbling Stream.
Or start my own. I live near a Quail Lake.

[icehawk_OS]

Cane Creek too, but that's bicycle parts.

Huh, I swore I read a review of one of their systems yesterday when I was looking at this thread...

Sounds like a decent enough HTiB replacement/cheap setup along the lines of Yambeka, sure it isn't a "serious" system but neither is the pricing.

[videoaddikt]

Originally Posted by icehawk_OS

Cane Creek too, but that's bicycle parts.

Huh, I swore I read a review of one of their systems yesterday when I was looking at this thread...

Sounds like a decent enough HTiB replacement/cheap setup along the lines of Yambeka, sure it isn't a "serious" system but neither is the pricing.

Maybe I need to review the pricing again. I thought it was high against Rockets, even the Onix Reference speakers. Nothing yet to say they perform nearly as well.
Just using those as a reference, as they seem highly regarded around these parts.

[schticker]

Originally Posted by videoaddikt

Let's see, we have Blue Ridge, North Creek (reputable as far as I know), Creek (also), etc. I think I'll hold out for Bubbling Stream.
Or start my own. I live near a Quail Lake.

Just go to PE, grab some drivers and boxes, invent some fictitious value scale, and slap up a website.

You know, like they did

[tonygeno]

Originally Posted by schticker

Just go to PE, grab some drivers and boxes, invent some fictitious value scale, and slap up a website.

You know, like they did

More of the same.

[Tawaun da bomb]

The Swan midrange drivers are pretty good for their price,but i dont like their dome tweeters,they should've have used one of their ribbons.The speaker is definetly overpriced,I dont like the whole design ,and even worse for that kind of money its not worth the hassle.

[schticker]

Originally Posted by tonygeno

More of the same.

Well, what's incorrect about it?

BTW - Are you done typing my name in the search field?

[videoaddikt]

Originally Posted by schticker

Just go to PE, grab some drivers and boxes, invent some fictitious value scale, and slap up a website.

You know, like they did

Sounds too easy! LOL

[schticker]

Originally Posted by videoaddikt

Sounds too easy! LOL

You know, don't get me wrong--there are a lot of ID companies that make good stuff or have pre-existing reputations that are smeared by the ID branding they place on themselves. What a lot of these companies fail to realize is that placing the "ID" stigma on their company forces a great percentage of the target market away from them--because ID is seen as "for the masses", a "bang-for-the-buck value brand, and still has a lower-tier feel to it. This may, in fairness, be independent from reality.

What turns me off on this ID startup phenomenon reminds me of all the pseudo-dealers that popped up in the late 90's that promised amazing value, and were really ill-prepared to be what they said they were. In the process, these entities made real dealers look like a rip-off. But, at the end of the day, either failed to meet their own hype, rip off the customer, or all of the above. No one wins--with the consumer caught in the middle. Now, as the phenomenon moves ahead, we see companies like BackwaterAudio.com or whatever the heck it is making this trash. But who's to say what's a good "value" and what isn't? Garbage can be passed on because value tends to be subjective--and consumers can be taught what their stance on value means to them, often to their detriment.

To many, internet = value. To more, internet = perception of value. Note the difference. You want value add? Point to the net and tell me where it is, or what local business has to support it.

So it may surprise many here that the real reason why I despise these paper tigers is simply because it dilutes the entire industry, and makes real innovators look like me-toos. The effect on the local dealer is secondary, but obviously as the local authorized dealer goes, so goes the industry.

[tonygeno]

Originally Posted by schticker

Well, what's incorrect about it?

It's a thread crap. It has nothing to do with the subject at hand: discussion of a speaker which you've never seen nor heard but have very strong opinions about based on nothing.

I actually am interested in new speakers and have a number of ID and store bought systems in my home. I switch between them because it's fun and maybe I can add an intelligent comment to the discussion unlike:

Originally Posted by schticker

ID is teh shiznorz

Real useful.

[Blue Ridge Sound]

Lindahl:
Let me help you in a few areas:
1. We're not using a woofer from Peerless, nor are the tweeter and mids the same as those publicly available.
2. If we didn't have a separate midrange enclosure, our very robust (not peerless) woofer would surely destroy the mids in short order. Please take the time to read our website where we discuss our separate midrange enclosure as well as many other engineering aspects.
3. Take another look at the distance between what you assume to be a standard TN28 and the upper midrange... you'll notice that it's closer than would even be possible with a standard tweeter that had the typical three to four inch flange on it. Then, please correct your assumption that we've not taken the distance between the tweeter and the lower mid into consideration in our crossover network.
4. As for our frequency respons graphs... again, please read our website, where it is clearly stated that we utilize the same procedure as Stereophile Magazine so that you can compare apples to apples.
5. While it is true that measurements don't mean everything, it's also true that they are an indication of solid engineering and solid performance.
6. The proof is in the putting, as they say. I'd suggest that you may want to take a look at our feedback and customer comments where we receive 100% praise for the excellent sound of our speakers and where our customers mention great bass, excellent imaging, very musical sound and overall quality and accuracy that would suggest they should sell for more.

If we didn't have solid engineering behind this design, we'd not have such high praise from our customers, nor would be able to achieve such an even frequency response graph while utilizing the same measurement procedure that is used by one of the most respected audiophile publications.

In addition, why would any company cobb together an inferior product (as you seem to suggest) and then present it as something of merit and value when surely customer feedback and future reviews would reveal this? The only people saying anything negative about our speakers are those who know nothing about them, while everyone who's heard them has only the highest praise for them.

Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but personally I'd be listening to actual customers and those with first hand knowledge of a product, rather than, well... someone who apparently hasn't even read our website.

*****

Greetings to the rest of you as well. I'd invite you to read our website and our customer comments/feedback and come to your own conclusions.

Thank You,
Carl Halling, BRSE

[Rabbit97]

Originally Posted by Blue Ridge Sound

Lindahl:
Let me help you in a few areas:

6. The proof is in the putting, as they say. I'd suggest that you may want to take a l

Thank You,
Carl Halling, BRSE

Well, you just lost a customer, cause I only want proof in my pudding, and it is off putting, the other way around.

Sorry, couldnt resist.

[tonygeno]

Originally Posted by Blue Ridge Sound

Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but personally I'd be listening to actual customers and those with first hand knowledge of a product, rather than, well... someone who apparently hasn't even read our website.

Amen to that. But, you see, Carl, some of these guys make a hobby of crapping on anything they don't know. It makes them feel important, I guess. One small point: rather than listen to actual customers, I'd rather listen to the actual speakers!

Best of luck.

[Lindahl]

We're not using a woofer from Peerless, nor are the tweeter and mids the same as those publicly available.

Certainly you'd mention in your website that the drivers are custom designed if they were - there's plenty of other marketing hype found on your website. Suspicious that only now you speak up about it.

If we didn't have a separate midrange enclosure, our very robust (not peerless) woofer would surely destroy the mids in short order.

Then tuning can then be even more of an issue with the woofer in an even smaller enclosure. 30 liters is incredibly small for two midranges, a tweeter and a 8" woofer with 16 xmax (or is it 8 xmax, when considering industry standards?).

Take another look at the distance between what you assume to be a standard TN28 and the upper midrange... you'll notice that it's closer than would even be possible with a standard tweeter that had the typical three to four inch flange on it.

Argument by misdirection... the lower midrange is my concern.

Then, please correct your assumption that we've not taken the distance between the tweeter and the lower mid into consideration in our crossover network.

You make no mention of this on your website. Again, your apparent driver selection and placement makes it very easy suggest that you don't know what you're doing. What is the crossover frequency and order?

As for our frequency response graphs... again, please read our website, where it is clearly stated that we utilize the same procedure as Stereophile Magazine so that you can compare apples to apples.

It says nothing of the graph manipulation, only of the measurement procedure - quite far from what I was talking about. Again, it's important omissions like this that make me suspect marketing mojo. It looks great for someone who doesn't look closely under the hood, but knows just enough to be taken.

The proof is in the putting, as they say. I'd suggest that you may want to take a look at our feedback and customer comments where we receive 100% praise for the excellent sound of our speakers and where our customers mention great bass, excellent imaging, very musical sound and overall quality and accuracy that would suggest they should sell for more.

Where? On your website? One person on Audiogon with a single post and zero feedback? Another who compared them to Zu Druids (which measure horribly)? Feedback on ebay that says nothing about sound quality with only two mentioning speakers? (Not that I'd trust the judgment of those that buy speakers on ebay...) These are laughable forums for customer feedback on audio quality.

If we didn't have solid engineering behind this design, we'd not have such high praise from our customers, nor would be able to achieve such an even frequency response graph while utilizing the same measurement procedure that is used by one of the most respected audiophile publications.

See above.

In addition, why would any company cobb together an inferior product (as you seem to suggest) and then present it as something of merit and value when surely customer feedback and future reviews would reveal this?

Because you control what feedback goes on the website, and who reviews the speaker. I haven't even touched on the idea that customer feedback and reviews don't exactly reveal good sound - audiophiles are a funny bunch. In general, they tend to follow the money, not the music (see $10k speaker cable or any one of the audio rags). People aren't so willing to admit they made a $2000 mistake, much less a $10k one.

The only people saying anything negative about our speakers are those who know nothing about them, while everyone who's heard them has only the highest praise for them.

Ok.. I'll take your word for it.

Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but personally I'd be listening to actual customers and those with first hand knowledge of a product, rather than, well... someone who apparently hasn't even read our website.

What actual customers? Four anecdotal quotes on your website? I read quite a bit of the website, which says nothing of the graph smoothing. I apologize for missing the part on the sub-enclosure.

Greetings to the rest of you as well. I'd invite you to read our website and our customer comments/feedback and come to your own conclusions.

Perhaps there's another forum for such feedback that I'm not aware of... like I said, I haven't seen anything to impress me enough to plop down $2000 on an ID company with questionable drivers without having a trial period. I'm not looking to rip you apart, I'm looking to protect people from making a possible $2000 mistake (or is it $1000? - see ebay - white van tactics?). It's your job to inspire customer confidence in the type of market you're in.

On a side note, I'd be more than willing to eat my words and sing earned praise if you'd send a demo pair for a trial period. Feel free to PM me, if you wish to take me up on this offer. I don't expect you to read all my posts, but you'll find that I don't keep it a secret when I'm proven wrong. I don't expect you to take me up on this offer, but perhaps you should, as it certainly would make quite a selling point.

Almost forgot:

While it is true that measurements don't mean everything, it's also true that they are an indication of solid engineering and solid performance.

Sounds like a contradiction to a quote on your website:

A speaker with a good frequency response simply cannot sound poor, and a speaker with a poor frequency response simply cannot sound good. Period.

While the second statement is certainly true (depending on the definition of poor, I guess), the first statement is bogus. Any good speaker engineer would not say the first statement - or did marketing hype take over again?

[schticker]

Originally Posted by tonygeno

It's a thread crap. It has nothing to do with the subject at hand: discussion of a speaker which you've never seen nor heard but have very strong opinions about based on nothing.

Fair enough, I've never heard them. That doesn't seem to discount others' opinions that echo mine that ALSO haven't heard them, so OK.

You can sort of tell by cost of an item the quality that went into it. And after hearing hundreds of speakers over the years, it's a pretty safe bet that the parameters of:

1. Being ID with a known vagueness surrounding the value
2. Its low cost
3. Others who have educated opinions questioning it

that it's crappier than the thread crap you accused me of.

[Chu Gai]

Who is Carl Halling and just what is his specific area of expertise when it comes to speaker building?

[videoaddikt]

I think the rest of us simply want more information, be they testimonials, offers of free trials, more reviews, etc.
Those things take time if the company is just starting out, but they should not expect us to take things at face value either, which is what Lindahl is saying in my view.
Trying to say more, guess what hardware is really being used, etc. etc. is conjecture at this point, at least until we are given something we can sink our teeth into.
I don't think cost is even a factor at this point. It does show an intended market but until you can do a comparison in performance it means little beyond that.