2007 Samsung LED Owner's Thread (HLT XX87/89S)

[jonny_H]

Well, my '02 ('03?) Toshiba 50HDX82 crapped out the other day and I ordered the HLT5087S from Amazon. I looked for the owner's thread and couldn't find it so here we are. I have an estimated arrival date of 9-11 Apr. Pics, opinions, and dimensions will be posted upon arrival.

Info per htwait's request:

General Info:
This thread is all about the 2007 Samsung HLTxx87/89S LED DLPs. Each series comes in 50", 56", and 61" versions. All of these sets are 1080P and appear to have the same cabinet. As of 2 April, the suspected differences are:

Originally Posted by psklenar

Per the 4-page PDF spec sheets on Samsung's site:

HL-Txx87S - no PiP, no Bluetooth, USB 1.1, and unspecified HDMI versio (probably 1.1 or 1.2)
HL-Txx89S - Single tuner PiP, Bluetooth (wireless headphones?), USB 2.0 and HDMI v1.3 w/CEC

Scroll to the bottom of this post for the specs.

Samsung seems to be using the same photo for all six televisions in this line (HLTxx87/89) on their web page. I don't know if they all have the same proportions or what.

Links:

htwait's CES info thread: first and last posts

Reviews
Morseth's first impression-HLT6189S
Kagaden's first impression-HLT6187S

Samsung's Website
Samsung DLP page

Quick Guides - Web based basic manual
HLTxx87S
HLTxx89S

Owner's Manuals
HLTxx87S
HLTxx89S

Spec Sheets
HLT5087S
HLT5687S
HLT6187S
----------
HLT5089S
HLT5689S
HLT6189S

Frequently Asked Questions:
(I don't have all the answers yet)

Is the color banding still there in the new HLT's like it was in the 2006 model or is that fixed now?

From Morseth: I didn't see any banding in any of the video modes (dynamic, normal, movie). That doesn't mean it isn't there because I haven't done any exhaustive tests, but I have yet to see it with casual viewing.
From Kagaden: I didn't notice any out of the ordinary with VGA, Standard Definition, DVD's, and Component Wii/PS2 on any mode I fiddled with. I don't have a PS3 or Xbox yet but I'm sure the picture quality is worlds better. My initial impression is that this set corrects the problem I've read with last years 5679's.

Will the AUDIO OUT send through signals from HDMI as well as the normal analog sources? (Will it pass 5.1?)

From Gene S: IIRC, using the sets internal tuners will pass 5.1 sound on the optical out. Using external devices, (STB's, PS3, TivoS3...) the set will only pass 2 channel sound.

Is Samsung finally doing 3:2 pulldown correction for 1080i sources to get back the 1080p/24 signal (used to only work for 480i). Does the 120 Hz refresh rate compensate for this?

From Studio Dweller: I'm a friend of Eliab's and we picked up two of these sets on Thursday. Eliab told me later that day that the HL-T5089S does indeed accept a 1080p/24 signal.
From llowrey: My understanding is that these are wobulated sets and that wobulation occurs at 120Hz (60Hz x 2). I am wondering if this 120Hz number that's been going around is not the true frame rate but rather the wobulation field rate.
**In other words, we don't know the answer yet.**

Is the contrast up to the level of the wheel versions?

Is the pincushioning better/worse than last years models?

From Moreseth: My pincusion in 4:3 material is less than 1/8" on each side. It's so small I can barely measure it.

What are the foot dimensions?

From Moreseth: The dimensions of the actual footprint of the 6189S is about 41" wide by 13.5" deep. These are maximum dimensions, since the footprint isn't a perfect square. (Still waiting for 50" & 57" measurements)

Samsung quotes a 16 microsecond response time. Isn't that slower than most LCDs?

Wikipedia says that typical LCD response times (how fast the pixels can change colors) is 8-16 milliseconds. Samsung claims a 16 microsecond response time. There are 1000 microseconds in one millisecond. To compare apples to apples, the typical LCD response time is 500 to 1000 times slower than what Samsung is claiming for these DLP sets. Keep in mind that this does not include the time that it takes to process the signal (input lag). To dumb it down, think of it this way:

1. Video signal goes to TV set.
2. TV set processes signal and converts it to 1920x1080 pixels to display on screen (input lag). The prettier you want the picture, the longer it will take.
3. Light engine throws picture up on the screen (response time).

Game mode cuts down time in step 2. Obviously if the set had an overall response time of 16 microseconds, we wouldn't need game mode. What it does mean is that the screen itself can keep up with any kind of fast moving action. Here's some more food for thought. Let's take Samsung's quoted 120 Hz refresh rate. You'll get a new screen every 8.33 milliseconds. Analogy: I could have the fastest drumroll in existence, but if I'm only allowed to hit the drum once a second, you're only gonna hear that drum once a second.

Rainbows? I thought LED=no wheel=no rainbows. Can you see them on this set?

If you are very susceptible to rainbows then you might be able to see them on this set. Some people who can see them on lamp based DLPs report not seeing them on the LEDs. Rainbows are caused by the cycling of colors, either as a color wheel spins through them or as the LEDs cycle through them.

Originally Posted by htwaits

The underlying cause of rainbows is the fact the each basic (red, green, blue, etc,) color is flashed on the screen one at a time to create the exact color that is desired. The advantage in using colored LED lights is that they are faster and there are no gaps between color filters like color wheels have.

Here is a discussion over several posts about LED light engines and rainbows. I'm surprised that someone has already felt that they are seeing rainbows. Be sure to read what collinp has to say on the topic.

A LED and Rainbow Discussion

Info from the Spec Sheets:
(Data applies to all HLTxx87/89S tv sets unless specified.)

TV/Video
• DLP® HDTV by Samsung
• Ultra slim bezel (0.6"), “piano black” cabinet
• Slim depth – fits where others won’t™
• Long lasting LED light engine provides stable light output and ultra wide color gamut (spectrum)
• Built-in light sensor with beam current feedback insures stable light output over the life of the TV
• Samsung Cinema Smooth™ 1080p light engine:
--- Full HD 1920 x 1080p digital format converter for all inputs
--- Up to 10,000:1 contrast ratio with outstanding colors and deep black levels
--- Single-panel design—crystal-clear picture without any possibility of convergence errors
--- Smooth, film-like image and ultra-quiet operation
• Analog and full digital NTSC/ATSC Tuners with Clear QAM (digital cable)*
• Energy Star® Compliant (0.8 Watt standby)
• Hidden speaker system (DACS™)
• Picture in Picture (only HLTxx89S)
• Bluetooth™ capability for wireless headphones (only HLTxx89S)
• Game Mode enhances game console performance
• 3D HD ready—Future-proof your HD experience
• RS232 port for system control
Audio
• 10w x 2
• SRS TruSurround XT™
Connections
• 3 HDMI inputs (High Definition MultimediaInterface) (version 1.3 with CEC for HLTxx89S) with
480i/480p/720i/1080p/1080i input support
(note: I'm pretty sure they meant 720p)
• 2-component video inputs (480i/ 480p/ 720p/ 1080i/ 1080p)
• 2 S-video inputs
• 2 A/V composite inputs
• USB 1.1 (USB 2.0 for HLTxx89S)
• PC (RGB) input with 1080p Input Support
Options
• Floor stand: TR500X3B

[psklenar]

I had pre-ordered an HL-T5089S from a local retailer. Eighteen of them were expected in the warehouse on 4/10 with delivery shortly there after. As of the 12th, they hadn't called. So I called them. Nothing in the warehouse and nothing expected before 4/20 (and even that date was uncertain).

Have no ordered an HL-T5087S from an online retailer for significantly less.

[Kagaden]

Excellent. I've preordered my HL-T6187S and my set is being shipped out today (4/3/07). I'm hoping to see some early reviews up this week for those who get their sets delivered since some places seem to have them in stock.

[bcvp]

Would someone please refresh my memory as to what the main difference is between the 87 and 89? Thanks!

[psklenar]

bcvp,

Per the 4-page PDF spec sheets on Samsung's site:

HL-Txx87S - no PiP, no Bluetooth and unspecified HDMI versio (probably 1.1 or 1.2)
HL-Txx89S - Single tuner PiP, Bluetooth (wireless headphones?) and HDMI v1.3 w/CEC

As far as I can tell ... that's it. I was actually looking for the 87S, but it doesn't look like it'll be available locally for me where as the 89S is.

[edpsx]

Woot.. been waiting on someone to start a thread on this. I hope to see some good reviews from everyone on this.

[Dead.Horse]

I too would love any first impressions you guys can provide once you receive your sets. I'm trying to decide between the Samsung LED 6189S, Sony 60XBR2 (probably won't wait for the XBR3), or one of the new slim-line JVC sets. I'm getting my own place within the next couple months, and would like to get the TV once I get all of my other junk moved over. I don't think I'm going to wait until fall or winter for the late-comers.

[bcvp]

Psklenar, thanks for the quick reply. I dug around and found that info too. Do you think that makes sense though? I question the accuracy on a lot of information provided when comparing similar models on anything. PIP is on just about all sets, it would cost more money to take it out or disable it. Also the PIP doesn't work on digital inputs afaik so that is a moot feature anyway. The BT is great but its a gimmick if the 87 is exactly the same.

The sets look the same and they're both 1080p. What other Samsung sets are that close that have different model numbers? How about other brands? I can't see a new model number just for BT? lol. It would be great if there was some more info out there.

[Dead.Horse]

Originally Posted by bcvp

Psklenar, thanks for the quick reply. I dug around and found that info too. Do you think that makes sense though? I question the accuracy on a lot of information provided when comparing similar models on anything. PIP is on just about all sets, it would cost more money to take it out or disable it. Also the PIP doesn't work on digital inputs afaik so that is a moot feature anyway. The BT is great but its a gimmick if the 87 is exactly the same.

The sets look the same and they're both 1080p. What other Samsung sets are that close that have different model numbers? How about other brands? I can't see a new model number just for BT? lol. It would be great if there was some more info out there.

From everything I've read, it sounds like pip, bluetooth, and hdmi 1.3 are the only real differences between the 87 and 89. Also, owning an 89 makes you a better person, and God loves you just a little bit more.

[Kingram]

What will HDMI 1.3 do for us, is there any source material out there yet that will take advantage of it?

[bfdtv]

Originally Posted by Kingram

What will HDMI 1.3 do for us, is there any source material out there yet that will take advantage of it?

Some of the newest consumer HD camcorders -- such as the Sony HC7 -- will acquire content using the new HDMI 1.3 "xvYCC" color space, but that is the only source of material.

Broadcast, cable, satellite, DVD, HD-DVD, and Blu-ray do not take advantage xvYCC, deep color, or any HDMI 1.3 features to improve video quality. There is some talk of adding xvYCC to the Blu-ray specification, but that is probably several years off, at least.

Games are the only probable source of "deep color" content in the next five years.

[ancalime]

I was waiting for someone to finally start an owners thread for these sets! I cannot wait for first impressions, the 56 inch 87s model is in my horizon.

[jonny_H]

Ok, I updated the first thread with some links. Amazon is showing the set is shipped with an estimated arrival of 11 April.

[htwaits]

Originally Posted by jonny_H

Well, my 02 Toshiba 50HDX82 crapped out the other day and I ordered the HLT5087S from Amazon. I looked for the owner's thread and couldn't find it so here we are. I have an estimated arrival date of 9-11 Apr. Pics, opinions, and dimensions will be posted upon arrival.

If you are interested to know what a good owner's thread is like check the first three or four messages in the thread for 2005 models.

Samsung 1080p Owner's Thread --- HLRxxx8W DLP Models

Samsung 1080p Owner's Thread --- HLSxx87W/HLSxx88W DLP Models

UCSB created an outstanding resource for the HL-R 2005 models. Maybe you can do the same thing for 2007.

[Kagaden]

Originally Posted by Dead.Horse

I too would love any first impressions you guys can provide once you receive your sets. I'm trying to decide between the Samsung LED 6189S, Sony 60XBR2 (probably won't wait for the XBR3), or one of the new slim-line JVC sets. I'm getting my own place within the next couple months, and would like to get the TV once I get all of my other junk moved over. I don't think I'm going to wait until fall or winter for the late-comers.

I'll have one the night I get the tv. There will be loads of pictures for the sources I have. I'm primarily an HTPC user with an old set up though. I haven't upgraded much in several years.

[bcvp]

Htwaits, its great that you're over here too! I'm reading the post and I'm like hey I'm from the HL-R forum, then I noticed you. lol.

Does anyone have info on the LE or other components compared to other models? I'm more interested in that than the features right now. Someone had compared the 87 to what seems to be another line, which wasn't as good as the 87 and now it looks like they added the 89, which is where I got lost. lol.

I know HDMI is fairly new but has anyone heard of using different versions of anything in the same model year and in the same line? That doesn't make any sense to me.

[htwaits]

Originally Posted by bcvp

Htwaits, its great that you're over here too! I'm reading the post and I'm like hey I'm from the HL-R forum, then I noticed you. lol.

I'm everywhere.

Does anyone have info on the LE or other components compared to other models? I'm more interested in that than the features right now. Someone had compared the 87 to what seems to be another line, which wasn't as good as the 87 and now it looks like they added the 89, which is where I got lost. lol.

The place where this information is being collected now is in the 2007 CES thread that is linked at the bottom of my post.

While I understand the eagerness to have an owner's thread, this one is premature. Note: ... but not now. 04/04/2007

I know HDMI is fairly new but has anyone heard of using different versions of anything in the same model year and in the same line?

Samsung announced two levels in their 1080p 2007 models at CES -- lamp and LED. Within those levels they also announced that HDMI 1.3 would be available in two of the four model series.

There is a chance, I don't know how good, that there will be HDMI 1.3 in all the 1080p lines for 2007. If so, it would be consistent with all previous Samsung model years. Unfortunately, it's hard to predict because Samsung is very "flexible" both before, and during a model year.

For further speculation, try the 2007 CES link below.

[icy]

I understand that the 89 series does indeed have an HDMI 1.3 input. However, is the screen actually capable of displaying 10 bit color (deep color)?

[Manchild]

In the above specs it states "3D HD Ready"...anyone have any insight into how exactly Samsung/TI is planning on implementing 3D technology in the consumer market?

[dee99ta]

I have ordered the HLT5087S. I was hesitant and I usually don't jump in the first to buy crowd, but it should arrive in 2-3 weeks. I am going to spring for the repairmaster warranty. Does anyone know if they treat the LED engine like a bulb warranty? So if it goes out, it is taken care of with the bulb warranty and not the overall warranty?

[cybrwulf]

I ordered my HL-T5087S this morning with J and R and they assured me its in stock, so with the expedited shipping, it should be here Thursday or Friday.

Its funny that I pulled the trigger on this thanks to the fact that my the bulb in my Samsung HL-P5063W went out last night, and it turns out that its practically back ordered forever! Well, I didn't feel like waiting so I went ahead and visited good old AVSforum and sure enough there was talk that the second gen Samsung LEDS were out.

Thanks for the heads up to whoever mentioned the price at J and R!

PS. The old model will sit until a replacement bulb ever arrives and then its getting sold! No more bulbs!!!

[nash0r]

Originally Posted by icy

I understand that the 89 series does indeed have an HDMI 1.3 input. However, is the screen actually capable of displaying 10 bit color (deep color)?

There is mention in the 89 series manual:

xvYCC: Off/On
Setting the xvYCC mode to On increases detail and color space when watching movies from an external device (ie. DVD player)
connected to the HDMI or Component IN jacks. You must set the Picture Mode to Movie to enjoy this feature.

Interpret this as you might like

[htwaits]

Originally Posted by icy

I understand that the 89 series does indeed have an HDMI 1.3 input. However, is the screen actually capable of displaying 10 bit color (deep color)?

Two points: the screen displays what ever the light engine projects onto it, and the current 1080p HL-S sets are all 10 bit color displays. Almost all current source material is 8 bit color.

Here is an article about HDMI 1.3 and what it means.

Understanding HDMI Ver 1.3

HDMI 1.3a also supports a format known as Deep Color. You may see this referred to as Extended-gamut YCC (xvYCC). Deep Color is a new color space used in video electronics. It can support 1.8 times as many colors as RGB. RGB, as you may know, creates colors through a mixture of Red, Green, and Blue primary colors. Deep Color defines colors by means of an algorithm that can specify any color in nature.

This improvement in color performance is significant only in specifications.

Current HDTV broadcasts (and the current HDMI standard before 1.3) uses 8-bit color depth.

The new HDMI 1.3a standard with Deep Color capability expands the number of colors viewable on an HDTV from millions to billions, while eliminating color banding and subtle gradations between colors through the use of 10-bit, 12-bit, and 16-bit color depths.

It is vitally important to understand that every movie ever transferred to DVD or any other digital format has been done using 8-bit color depth.

While the new Deep Color format could provide an improvement in picture quality, there currently is no content (no movies, TV shows or archived material) available that can be easily trans-coded into the new system.

With the existing issues of Digital Rights Management (DRM) and High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) just beginning to be worked out it is highly unlikely that Hollywood and the entertainment industry will rush to provide software that is a clone of the original movie quality.

The first place Deep Color is likely to be used is in advanced gaming systems, but even that milestone seems beyond the immediate future.

The added emphasis is mine.

[Kagaden]

So I got my shipping information.

I find it EXTREMELY odd that my box is listed as being 446lbs from the delivery company. I think they shipped me a gorilla instead.

[jnelson2000]

I have a HLT6189S that should be here tonight.

[Kagaden]

Originally Posted by jnelson2000

I have a HLT6189S that should be here tonight.

Woohoo! I look forward to your impressions. I think the most primary concern for me is the level of out of the box color banding the set gets (if any is discernible) on different modes.

Edited for clarity.

[nash0r]

Originally Posted by Kagaden

Woohoo! I look forward to your impressions. I think the most primary concern for me is the level of out of the box color banding the set gets on different modes.

To be fair, no one knows if there will be banding problems on this set out of the box. The previous LED model did have this issue, but I'd have figured Samsung would have fixed it for these new models.

At any rate, I also look forward to the first user reports

[Tim Hess]

Has anyone found these in stock?

[scotthiggins]

Per htwaits, I believe we don't yet have a true "own".

"While I understand the eagerness to have an owner's thread, this own is premature. "

I do have one bought and paid for. I plan to pick it up and plug it in tomorrow. The race is on... it is in will-call, so maybe I should go pick it up tonight.

[psklenar]

Originally Posted by scotthiggins

... it is in will-call, so maybe I should go pick it up tonight.

Yes, you should! I've got about a week before mine'll be in, so I'm dying to hear whether I should go ahead or cancel my order!