Confirmed Xbox Elite wont outpot Uncompressed/Lossless audio, will you still get one?

[BBS G35]

Simple question. (Only vote if you were thinking of getting one)

Here is the quote from Amir. (Post # 3221)

Amir spills the beans in Insider Thread

Hello everyone. Sorry for the late response. As I posted before, I was at a 2-day offsite with no net access (or time to use it!). Trying to catch up with all the questions asked.

Xbox 360 Elite supports HDMI 1.2 profile. For audio, you can select DD, DTS (at 1.5 Mbps), and WMA-Pro (Microsoft high fidelity multi-channel codec supported in some AVRs such as Pioneer). Since it is not based on 1.3, it will not support output of DD+ or TrueHD (even if it did, mixing would have been turned off).

PCM output is available but only for 2-channels (not 5.1). Please, please, don’t say you don’t like this. There is nothing you are going to say which we don’t know . Our goal was to provide a digital connection for video which people wanted for some of their TVs. And of course, single cable A/V connection. So if having analog video bothered you before, you can now use digital. If you lacked component/VGA on your TV, you are in business with Xbox 360 Elite.

Keep in mind that the spring software update for HD DVD substantially improves audio fidelity. Per above, you now have a choice of no less than three output formats.

If you are keen on having 5.1 PCM output, I recommend purchasing the Toshiba A2 player which after the price drop, will be much cheaper than Elite.

Answering other questions, both Xbox 360 Elite and current Xbox 360 units will have a spring (console) update which adds support for different video levels for VGA output (“7.5 IRE vs 0”). And as someone mentioned, using this setting you should be able to use computer monitors in addition to TVs with resolutions all the way up to 1080p with high fidelity and no issues with HDCP handshaking. So for current users, I highly recommend trying this update with your VGA connection to see if it does the job for you. Note that this is a console update and will work for both games and of course, HD DVD. The HD DVD software update is separate from this (and will be available on both Xbox Live and xbox.com).

On output video format, Xbox 360 Elite will perform a handshake and select the appropriate RGB/YUV settings over HDMI. You cannot select it yourself.

The spring HD DVD software update will fix all the lip sync issues that have been reported/we know of.

There is no support for the WMV-HD disc format but of course, you can put WMV files on discs and Xbox 360 will play them.

Link to Poll

[Dahlsim]

Not considering just 1080p hdmi and lossless audio.

When I add another 360, for $80 I'd want the AV friendly black unit, with the black controller and headset along with a 100gig more of memory for downloading HD movies, shows and content.

[joe_six_pack]

DTS @ 1.5 isn't bad


I wont get one. The main factor for me is lack of the 65 nm chip & lack of upgraded cooling. I'm not buying a $500 (after tax) system that will brick after 6 months.

The other main factor for me was the internal hd-dvd drive. Quite frankly, unless MS is planning this console to help them launch their IPTV or the downloaded movie thing, 120gigs is too much, and it would have been better to go with a smaller drive & include the hd-dvd drive & increase the price to $500. Just my .02.

[venk]

Well, that kind of sucks.

[Bar81]

Not really much of an upgrade, but even if it had those features, I wouldn't be interested in purchasing one.

I do understand the MS viewpoint; if you have a serious sound system, then you can afford to purchase a separate HD-DVD player. The HD DVD add-on for the X360 is a cut down version for those on a limited budget/looking to limit their HD-DVD investment until the format war sorts out. For the rest, buy a Toshiba 2nd gen player.

[BBS G35]

Originally Posted by Bar81

Not really much of an upgrade, but even if it had those features, I wouldn't be interested in purchasing one.

I do understand the MS viewpoint; if you have a serious sound system, then you can afford to purchase a separate HD-DVD player. The HD DVD add-on for the X360 is a cut down version for those on a limited budget/looking to limit their HD-DVD investment until the format war sorts out. For the rest, buy a Toshiba 2nd gen player.

No room on my AV Rack, and i already have the HD-DVD add on...What do do with it if i get a standalone?

[Bar81]

Sell it? Life's full of tough decisions, MS has made theirs, now we each have to make ours.

[SiggiG]

BIG disappointment When I originally heard about the Elite model with HDMI I got very excited with the prospect of uncompressed surround sound via HDMI.
The PlayStation 3 can do this (even with games), and the sound is just awesome.

So the only people that gain anything from the Elite are people with TV sets that only accept 1080p via HDMI.

... I just can't believe that MS messed this up this bad

[ArchAlien]

According to same source the drive will(Should) work when plugged into a computer w/ hdmi 1.3 and say PowerDVD.

[dmakk]

I'm very disappointed in this decision. Being able to convert DD+ and TrueHD to 5.1 PCM would have caused me to purchase the elite. I'm getting an HDMI switching receiver soon and I really wanted to listen to HD DVD audio in its complete fidelity. IMO, they would have had more purchases of the elite for that than for a third HD video output. It seems MS will miss out on the enthusiast sales that the elite is targeted at.

[metalsaber]

I wasn't planning on getting it anyways.

[HPforMe]

What a joke.

[dilvish]

I think this Elite version is more for the videogamers anyway. I am happy with my original Premium version for games, and I'll have my XA2 for HD DVD. Lowering the price of standalone players from Toshiba and the coming manufacturers will do a lot more to speed up adoption of HD DVD than having a bunch of gamers with the "possibility" of becoming HD DVD purchasers. I don't understand why it's supposed to be some sort of a blow to HD DVD that Microsoft didn't go back on their position about not including an HD DVD drive (and not including the subsequent price hike to cover it), giving the consumer the choice to pay for HD DVD playback or not. That being said, I think the Elite version is a bit overpriced. I think they should have lowered the Premium version by 50 bucks and made the Elite $399. Buying a new Xbox for pretty close to the price of an XA2. No thanks.

[venk]

I don't get it, what is the point of half ass support for the HDMI format? Either do it right or don't do it at all. It seems the ONLY reason the elite is being released is to remove a bullet point from the PS3 arsenal.

[MSmith83]

That is just pathetic. Where's the "slap on the forehead" emoticon when you need it.

[BBS G35]

Originally Posted by venk

I don't get it, what is the point of half ass support for the HDMI format? Either do it right or don't do it at all. It seems the ONLY reason the elite is being released is to remove a bullet point from the PS3 arsenal.

Yep, unfortunatley that's all it is. I guess all we can do now is hope Sony goes on a mareketing campaign bragging about Uncompressed/lossless audio...MS only seems to respond to what Sony does..As an Xbox/HDDVD fan it kinda hurts to admit it.

[BBS G35]

Originally Posted by SiggiG

The PlayStation 3 can do this (even with games), and the sound is just awesome.

Resistance sounds F*ing amazing with uncompressed audio

[chad_cincy]

5.1 (7.1) PCM isn't just for lossless. It's also for the transport of advanced audio CODECs once they have been decompressed. I personally could be happy with even high bit rate DD+, but even that is not a possibility without PCM or analog breakouts.

The Elite appears to be more of a marketing move against the PS3 than anything worth while to anyone here unfortunately. I'll be keeping my standard 360 for great games and my A1 for movies with great audio.

[BassTek]

Hell no, only reason for HDMI in my opinion was the PCM output. If I want 1080p I can use the VGA.

[BBS G35]

Amir wrote: "99% of the requests I got for HDMI here was about pure video connectivity."

HA!

[drhill]

Originally Posted by joe_six_pack

DTS @ 1.5 isn't bad


I wont get one. The main factor for me is lack of the 65 nm chip & lack of upgraded cooling. I'm not buying a $500 (after tax) system that will brick after 6 months.

The other main factor for me was the internal hd-dvd drive. Quite frankly, unless MS is planning this console to help them launch their IPTV or the downloaded movie thing, 120gigs is too much, and it would have been better to go with a smaller drive & include the hd-dvd drive & increase the price to $500. Just my .02.

Wow, so every 360 has bricked so far? I got mine < 1 month after launch and have never had one problem. Besides the problems are supposedly from memory overheating, not the cpu. So 65 nm will do nothing but give MS more profit per system if they don't lower the price.

I have absolutely no use for the bigger HD too. It's stupid, I'd love to have HDMI video as those ports look a bit better then my component ports, but not worth the upgrade for me since they don't have uncompressed sound for my movies from the hdmi port.

I like my HD-dvd drive, but the only reason I got it was because it was $200. I'm not buying a stand alone MS... and don't think your being kind to me by giving me a $200 drive... it wasn't $200. It was $200 + $400... so it is the same price as a stand alone unit. So in essence you are giving us a crippled HD-dvd player for the same price as a standalone, but it plays some damn fine games. Where as the PS3 is a hella good blu ray player for less then a stand alone that would play some good games if they existed for the system (with that crappy PS controller).

I'd be willing to spend another $200 on a blu ray drive like the hd-dvd addon too, but if I'm getting a stand alone unit it better play both formats. I really want my spiderman/pirates/bond movies and I'm not entirely happy with the HD-DVD groups marketing push (or lack thereof).

[drhill]

Originally Posted by BBS G35

Amir wrote: "99% of the requests I got for HDMI here was about pure video connectivity."

HA!

That's probably because they assumed it would also do audio properly too. One would think that wouldn't be a problem as it HDMI has since 1.1, and it hasn't gotten 1080p 100% reliable till what 1.2a?

Don't need to ask for something that should be there do you?

[vancouver]

what dissapoints me the most about this is not the loss of ability to get PCM from HD DVD, but the lost prospect of 360 games outputting better then the current sound quality.

I read the spring update which will increase the dynamic range in DD and DTS for the 360 and make it sound "better" will have no effect sound quality for games. Can anyone confirm this?

As far as im concerned the PS3 is a next gen game console and the 360 almost is, and doesnt seem to have the potential to be unless buying a whole new SKU....Which doesnt even exist. Sound and video share a 50-50 split for importance to me.

[Dahlsim]

Originally Posted by vancouver

what dissapoints me the most about this is not the loss of ability to get PCM from HD DVD, but the lost prospect of 360 games outputting better then the current sound quality.

I read the spring update which will increase the dynamic range in DD and DTS for the 360 and make it sound "better" will have no effect sound quality for games. Can anyone confirm this?

As far as im concerned the PS3 is a next gen game console and the 360 almost is, and doesnt seem to have the potential to be unless buying a whole new SKU....Which doesnt even exist. Sound and video share a 50-50 split for importance to me.

Games never had the stuck in 'night mode' setting that DD+ hd-dvd decoder has on 360 so they were never affected by the reduced quiet settings. Just listen to an HD trailer or HD downloaded movie or TV show and you can hear some very dynamic sound for video out of your 360.

The spring update should place hd-dvd AQ at that level or better (since source for the decoded audio should better). Since Amir says the hd-dvd player update is now 'decoupled' from the general spring update, unless the DTS option is part of a general audio options update it wouldn't affect game audio but then why would game audio need an update when it's coded for DD 5.1 to begin with?

BTW, accd to MS on their podcasts the elite SKU is not targeted as an upgrade path for current 360 users and MS doesn't expect many to use it that way since they can get the biggest benefit of the elite by simply buying the larger harddrive. The target seems to be for those that would buy a premium 360 and might want to get the following advantages for $80 more over the premium:

1) Larger HDD out of the box for downloading content like HD movies and TV shows as well as demos, new XNA games and IPTV services.

2) HDMI for another way to get the benefits currently only available on the VGA connection, 1080p on movies AND supposedly SD-DVD upscaling.

3) Black AV like color

Improved sound is coming to ALL 360's in the spring update but for the full hd audio fidelity I would buy an hd-dvd standalone if I updated my system with HDMI audio and wanted the last bit of quality out of hd-dvd.

Maybe MS wanted to leave some reason for anyone to buy a standalone player rather than a game console.

[egcarter]

No big deal. I don't buy gaming consoles for my critical HD disc viewing.

[togad]

Originally Posted by Dahlsim

Improved sound is coming to ALL 360's in the spring update but for the full hd audio fidelity I would buy an hd-dvd standalone if I updated my system with HDMI audio and wanted the last bit of quality out of hd-dvd.

Maybe MS wanted to leave some reason for anyone to buy a standalone player rather than a game console.

It really is a massive ****-up on MS's behalf, and if played right by Sony, I reckon this could be the death-knell for HD-DVD.

Here we have someone from MS effectively saying to millions of 360 owners "if you want a proper HD-DVD player, don't buy our add-on, you need to buy a standalone machine as well."

It almost makes the PS3 seem like a bargain.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by togad

It really is a massive ****-up on MS's behalf, and if played right by Sony, I reckon this could be the death-knell for HD-DVD.

Here we have someone from MS effectively saying to millions of 360 owners "if you want a proper HD-DVD player, don't buy our add-on, you need to buy a standalone machine as well."

It almost makes the PS3 seem like a bargain.

You're right about that one.. I purchased the 20GB PS3 and for less than $100 I upgraded the drive to 160GB...And it is HDMI 1.3 That is a bargain compared to what you are getting anywhere else..

[togad]

Originally Posted by Supermans

You're right about that one.. I purchased the 20GB PS3 and for less than $100 I upgraded the drive to 160GB...And it is HDMI 1.3 That is a bargain compared to what you are getting anywhere else..

And of course what I should have added was that they're not just saying that to millions of 360 owners, they're saying to tens of millions of people yet to pull the trigger on a next gen console and/or high definition DVD player "want the full monty? You've got to buy our Elite games console and a separate HD-DVD player".

[Slim GoodBooty]

Is there any uncompressed/lossless audio on games?

[togad]

Originally Posted by Slim GoodBooty

Is there any uncompressed/lossless audio on games?

Depends what you mean I guess, as anything actually "generated" by the console itself would I suppose not be created at a higher sample rate/resolution and then down-mixed, but just created at the sample rate/resolution that the console can output.