Do I need a HDMI upscaling receiver?

[Debonya1]

I'm looking to pruchase a new LCD 1080P set. In doing so - I need to upgrade my receiver to take HDMI. I have found several I like, however I'm confused at this point. I thought I only needed an A/V receiver that could handle HDMI, but I'm now thinking I may need an upscaling HDMI model. Will someone please explain the differences and if I need to spend the extra cash. Thanks in advance...

[Stephen Tu]

You don't necessarily need a receiver with HDMI, although it's a good idea for future-proofing. Video sources can be plugged straight into your set if it has enough inputs. The main need for HDMI on a receiver is if you eventually want to listen to multi-ch PCM from the lossless/uncompressed tracks from Blu-ray/HD-DVD, instead of downconverted/core to the lossy DD/DTS codecs. Roughly analagous to CD vs. MP3/AAC. If you are happy with DD/DTS and/or you aren't getting Blu-ray/HD-DVD for awhile, you can likely get away not upgrading your receiver right away.

Upscaling -- a lot of newbies don't realize that their new fancy LCD/Plasma/DLP etc. sets already have built-in video processors that de-interlace/scale as needed all incoming signals in order to fit the technology's native pixel grid. So upscaling in a receiver / DVD player isn't ever necessary. Whether it's desirable is basically a function of whether the video processing chip in the receiver/DVD does a better job with the signal than the one in the TV. It also depends if the TV will accept signals at it's native resolution; if it doesn't the TV might have to scale the signal anyway.

In most cases I don't think it's worth it, though some of the fancier DVD / receivers using the Silicon Optix Reon/Realta chips have gotten good reviews around here (I have no personal experience with these). If the processor in the TV isn't as good as/better than most upscaling receivers, perhaps you should be looking at a different model TV ...

[rstand]

I have the Sony str-da5200es. This unit upscales to 1080p and everything in between. I use component cables from my stb and dvd players to the 5200 and hdmi from the 5200 to the tv. The 1080p picture quality is outstanding. This receiver has all the bells and whistles and gui for on screen display that tops all that I have seen.

[Tim G]

The advantage is in operation of your system. If you connect all of your sources ( composite video from a VCR, component video from a cable box and HDMI from your DVD player) the receiver will send them out on the HDMI. If the receiver isn't upscaling you would need to connect to the TV for the different video formats and switch inputs on your TV as well as your receiver.

[donatelloa]

I agree with Stephen. I have the Rotel 1057 receiver and love it, but I have since moved away from using its HDMI capabilities. I went to a HDMI switch first, and now I upgraded to a DVDO vp50 video processor to handle all the HDMI lines. Remember that the best picture is going to be from the device to the TV. The more breaks in the lines decrease the signal.

[Festo]

To try and get more specific here. Right now i output my HD MOXI DVR to my tv. When i'm on an SD channel that is 480i it displays that in 480i and it looks terrible...obviously signal quality between SD channels varies greatly...some look better than others...and a 480P DVD looks pretty good. What i would like to know is if you take that 480i SD feed and input that into say the new ONKYO TX875 that will be coming out this year which uses the REON-VX silicon optics chip to output everything at 1080P will it improve my picture...and how much? Now the "brochure" for the REON says it manipulates every pixel and enhances it and sends out a "Close to HD quality picture" Is this true?

[Stephen Tu]

Tim G's point about the convenience factor, only having to switch inputs on the receiver -- true enough, however, this can alternatively be dealt with by a ~$100 universal remote, much cheaper.

To try and get more specific here. Right now i output my HD MOXI DVR to my tv. When i'm on an SD channel that is 480i it displays that in 480i and it looks terrible

Your TV itself is not displaying it in 480i. It is deinterlacing + scaling the 480i to its native resolution (fixed pixel sets) or scan rate(s) (CRTs, one or more of 480p/540p/1080i depending on model).

What i would like to know is if you take that 480i SD feed and input that into say the new ONKYO TX875 that will be coming out this year which uses the REON-VX silicon optics chip to output everything at 1080P will it improve my picture...and how much? Now the "brochure" for the REON says it manipulates every pixel and enhances it and sends out a "Close to HD quality picture" Is this true?

You are always limited by the quality of the original source. You can never recover detail that isn't there in the first place. When you scale up an image, like enlarging a picture in Photoshop, necessarily the edges get blurred by the anti-aliasing (otherwise you get a blocky picture). The scaler then has to try to counteract this with these detail enhancement algorithms. The advanced scaler here may well do less damage to the picture than your TV, so it might look somewhat less terrible. But any HD source will still look a ton better. Think not in terms of "improving SD -> HD quality", which is bogus marketing, instead it's minimizing losses/artifacts from the scaling. The channels that are bad compared to the other channels are still going to be bad; garbage in = garbage out.

[randytsuch1]

Hi
I am in the same boat, going to upgrade to a Sony 52" LCD XBR2, and trying to decide if I should upgrade my audio at the same time.

Right now, I am thinking about the Yamaha RX-V661, which has HDMI switching, but does not upconvert.

As others have said, if you want to run you video sources into the receiver, and then run one HDMI line from the receiver to your display, then you need to upconvert at the receiver. I plan to connect most of my sources directly to my LCD, so I dont need to upconvert, and upconverting adds to the cost of the receiver.

The other downside to running everything through you receiver is then you need to turn on the receiver whenever you watch TV. I guess with a programmable remote, this can be simplified, and I plan to get one, but I think it would be nice if my kids can turn on the TV, then turn on the video games or DVD player, and not have to mess with other things.


BTW, there is a review of the Pioneer Elite VSX 82TXS where they did not really like the video upconverting. I would post a like, but this forum did not let me, I dont have enough posts here. Some receivers may do a better job, and it depends how picky you are, just thought I would add this as another data point.


Randy

[Debonya1]

Thanks for the post Randy. Your comments mean alot...

[djdhellman]

Originally Posted by randytsuch1

Hi
... As others have said, if you want to run you video sources into the receiver, and then run one HDMI line from the receiver to your display, then you need to upconvert at the receiver. I plan to connect most of my sources directly to my LCD, so I dont need to upconvert, and upconverting adds to the cost of the receiver.

The other downside to running everything through you receiver is then you need to turn on the receiver whenever you watch TV. ...

I am adding to this thread because it is probably the most applicable.
I am trying to figure out what I really need. I have read through a bunch of posts and the FAQ, and I *think* I understand what I need, but I would GREATLY appreciate some confirmation.

I am in a similar boat where I have a new LCD TV (monitor, actually) that will upconvert to 1080p, so I don't really need an AVR that upconverts. I do, however, need something to act as a switcher between components and HDMI, because my TV has only one HDMI input. So I need something to take all of my inputs (from a VCR, HD DVR from D*, and an old DVD player, and maybe my old DVR) and handle all of the video to go into the TV through the one HDMI cable. I also would like the audio to play through the receiver through my speakers (I am still only 2-channel...) because the TV speakers are terrible.

My understanding is that the only way I can do this is to buy an AVR that actually DOES do the upconverting (transcoding) because I want to output everything through one HDMI cable. Is this correct?

Thanks in advance.

[cansp6]

Originally Posted by djdhellman

I am in a similar boat where I have a new LCD TV (monitor, actually) that will upconvert to 1080p, so I don't really need an AVR that upconverts. I do, however, need something to act as a switcher between components and HDMI, because my TV has only one HDMI input. So I need something to take all of my inputs (from a VCR, HD DVR from D*, and an old DVD player, and maybe my old DVR) and handle all of the video to go into the TV through the one HDMI cable. I also would like the audio to play through the receiver through my speakers (I am still only 2-channel...) because the TV speakers are terrible.

My understanding is that the only way I can do this is to buy an AVR that actually DOES do the upconverting (transcoding) because I want to output everything through one HDMI cable. Is this correct?

Thanks in advance.

Take a look at last year's Denon 888 from amazon.com It doesn't upconvert SD signals but it does upscale them so that they can be passed over HDMI. There is some video processing involved, but not as much as in an upconverting AVR. It may be what you're looking for if you don't mind only 2 HDMI inputs.