nvidia 8600 / 8500 series info

[scottnews]

So its officially released today. Here are some links:

An index of reviews. A few cover power consumption, being about equal to the 7600 series. Pretty much nothing covering BluRay and HD DVD playback.
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6949

The only thing I can find covering HD playback is here:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/N.../HDCPUload.jpg
Its being advertised as 100% offloading HD decoding from the CPU. Whereas the 7xxx series only offloaded about half the process.

I'd like to see what a passively cooled low end 8xxx series can do with HD.

[barth2k]

shoot, and I just bought a 7600gt couple of months ago

[Nimo]

I don't see the benefit of this card over my Diamond 7600GT, 128bit interface clock speeds look the same cpu usage on that chart shows maybe a 10% decrease compared to my 7600GT. Which is around 30/37 when playing back certain HD DVD's. And if they don't have HDMI implemented in this card I'll definetly pass, but I'm sure MSi will fix that.

[walford]

Here are some interesting links about the new cards:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070417/sftu028.html?.v=91

http://www.nvidia.com/page/purevideo_hd.html

I also found the 8500GT cards which should do fine for all TV and DVD users available at NewEgg for about $100.

I have not found any 8500 or 8600 cards yet with HDMI output.

[gorman42]

I think that this product launch clearly shows how the IT sector tries to force feed upgrades to customers.

Vista is a small portion of the market today, yet the newest capabilities of these cards are exploited first on Vista. For XP support we're going to have to wait.

I hope the wait will be as short as they're promising, but I still don't like it.

At all.

[scottnews]

I think the bitstream processor they added to the core is interesting. This could be an intelligent solution rather than brute force clockrate. I looks like a mid-range system could playback h.264 content with a low to midrange video card.

The GeForce 7 series did handle part of these computations, leaving the rest to the CPU. On the GeForce 8800 more operations could be offloaded to the GPU, but the G84 and G86 chips have even more features. This means that for HD video decoding the new cards are actually better than the 8800 Series
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/G84_G86/4

I would just like to see some independent benchmarks in regard to that.

[redtyler1]

I've read in a couple places that the manufacturers can alter one of the two DVI outputs to HDMI. So, maybe in a few months we'll see some 8600GT cards with HDMI in them. If thats the case, then HTPC'ers will have a choice when buying 1) a motherboard with HDMI and 2) a video card with HDMI. Until this happens, consumers have less of a choice. Ideally, Asus or someone will come out with low profile 8500or 8600 series cards with HDMI that will be robust enough, and effective enough, at offloading from the CPU so that people can start marketing HTPC alternatives to Mac-mini that will effectively play hi-def discs. At least thats what I am waiting on-8600GT w/hdmi.

Alex

[sgibson]

Originally Posted by scottnews

So its officially released today. Here are some links:

An index of reviews. A few cover power consumption, being about equal to the 7600 series. Pretty much nothing covering BluRay and HD DVD playback.
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6949

The only thing I can find covering HD playback is here:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/N.../HDCPUload.jpg
Its being advertised as 100% offloading HD decoding from the CPU. Whereas the 7xxx series only offloaded about half the process.

I'd like to see what a passively cooled low end 8xxx series can do with HD.

Got one on the way, ordered here:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...uctCode=326068
Details here:
http://www2.bfgtech.com/bfgr86256gtsoce.aspx
(Yes it's HDCP and supports HD-DVD and BR ready)
Official Nvidia 8500/8600 drivers here:
http://www.nvidia.com/content/drivers/drivers.asp

[redtyler1]

Just as a follow-up, anandtech has their review up for the 8600gts and 8600gt. As other posters have said, they only discuss the implications of the cards new feature set on offloading CPU utilization during HD playback--they do not test the cards for this. However, the article says they are currently testing it and will report their results soon. Basically, if you do any gaming, these cards are not for you--just buy an 8800gts which can be had for like 280 now. But, for us, the real benefit is the better HD playback. But, ya'll already know this.

Here's the article:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2970&p=1

Alex

[redtyler1]

Maybe folks can post some impressions/results when their cards come in? If the cards work as they say they do, budget HD-DVD and BD (smooth and effective) playback may not be a figment. Thoughts?

[Nimo]

From: reghardware

Although this arrangement keeps the 8600GT chip cool, it is rather noisy and is more reminiscent of a rackety Radeon X850 than a sophisticated GeForce 7800GTX.

Verdict

For the time being we have little choice but to ignore DirectX 10 and that means there is currently no compelling reason to upgrade from a GeForce 6600 or 7600 to an 8600. If we found ourselves forced to buy a graphics card in the next few weeks it would be a bit daft to miss out on the opportunity of playing Halo 2, so what would we do? Hmm, it's a tricky one, but there would be a strong temptation to plump for a GeForce 8800GT with 320MB of memory at £215.
MSI NX8600GTS graphics card

From Anand:

While it would be nice to have this hardware in NVIDIA's higher end offerings, this technology arguably makes more sense in mainstream parts. High end, expensive graphics cards are usually paired with high end expensive CPUs and lots of RAM. The decode assistance that these higher end cards offer is more than enough to enable a high end CPU to handle the hardest hitting
HD videos. With mainstream graphics hardware providing a huge amount of decode assistance, the lower end CPUs that people pair with this hardware will benefit greatly.


Here we go again it takes two pci slots Save your money guys unless your already in the build process or your cpu isn't quite up to par....Unless it does H.264 like butter it might be worth it due to the VP2 decoder, but we've all heard this before until someone does realtime benchmarks. Passive cooled single pci slot 512 mgs of ram and HDMI I will buy it if VP2 does what they claim...
Okay: 256mbs ram single pci and HDMI is more realistic.

[arfster]

Rumour has it the 8600GT eats VC1 and h264 like the 6xxx/7xxx series eat MPEG2. If you look at 7xxx series with similarly fast clocks, you're looking at 40-50% drop in CPU (my 600mhz 7300GT chops 45% off both). With the 8500/8600 being built from the ground up with BD/HDDVD in mind where the 7xxx series were not, I'd expect the 8600GTs to cut 60% or more - after all, it does have a 675mhz clock on the reference models, and more with some manufacturers' models.

[cubdukat]

Originally Posted by scottnews

I think the bitstream processor they added to the core is interesting. This could be an intelligent solution rather than brute force clockrate. I looks like a mid-range system could playback h.264 content with a low to midrange video card.

The GeForce 7 series did handle part of these computations, leaving the rest to the CPU. On the GeForce 8800 more operations could be offloaded to the GPU, but the G84 and G86 chips have even more features. This means that for HD video decoding the new cards are actually better than the 8800 Series
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/G84_G86/4

I would just like to see some independent benchmarks in regard to that.

So would I. To hear NVidia tell it, it takes over MPEG-2/4/AVC decoding entirely. At least that's how I interpreted it. I certainly hope that's the case. Even though I have a moderately powerful CPU (A64 3200+, soon to be an X2 4600+), I want it doing as little as possible.

The only two things that really get me are that I can't find anyone's who's got one in stock, and which manufacturers are putting out HDCP-enabled cards.

[sgibson]

Originally Posted by cubdukat

So would I. To hear NVidia tell it, it takes over MPEG-2/4/AVC decoding entirely. At least that's how I interpreted it. I certainly hope that's the case. Even though I have a moderately powerful CPU (A64 3200+, soon to be an X2 4600+), I want it doing as little as possible.

The only two things that really get me are that I can't find anyone's who's got one in stock, and which manufacturers are putting out HDCP-enabled cards.

Initial reviews are that at gaming 8600 is just ok, but it really shines when HD content is displayed. The 8600's new HD display engine is unique and outperforms the current 8800 series in this respect.
Just ordered BFG 8600GTS OC here:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...uctCode=326068


BFG says it's HDCP and this review reports it does HDCP thru both DVI outputs:
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid...e=expert&pid=3

[mrloopy]

Yes, if you've ordered a card please let us know how noisy they are...

[rpf717]

Sounds like these might be a great choice for HD playback for people who don't play games as much as movies.

A couple of thoughts: As far as noise, don't forget, Gigabyte already has a passively cooled 8600gts out now. Personally, I was blown away that they did this as their initial release - kudos to them!

As far as HDMI output? What does that give us? I gotta think most people aren't running sound through a sound system and not through speakers on the monitor, right? What's the advantage? Just wanna make sure I'm not missing something before I pull the trigger on one of these.

[FACP]

I was set to purchase the XFX 7950GT for my HTPC but thanks to some recommendations from forum members, I waited for the release of these new cards and it seems these would be best for an HD, BD, HDDVD playback only, non-gaming HTPC. Just wish it was passively cooled. Yes, I would also like to know how noisy are the fans.

[rpf717]

Originally Posted by FACP

Just wish it was passively cooled. Yes, I would also like to know how noisy are the fans.

You CAN get it passively cooled: Gigabyte 8600gts. Check out the picture

[millerbrad]

Originally Posted by scottnews

I think the bitstream processor they added to the core is interesting. This could be an intelligent solution rather than brute force clockrate. I looks like a mid-range system could playback h.264 content with a low to midrange video card.

The GeForce 7 series did handle part of these computations, leaving the rest to the CPU. On the GeForce 8800 more operations could be offloaded to the GPU, but the G84 and G86 chips have even more features. This means that for HD video decoding the new cards are actually better than the 8800 Series
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/G84_G86/4

I would just like to see some independent benchmarks in regard to that.

Here are some benchmarks with the 8600GTS.

http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/...20playback.php

I'm curious how the 8600GT compares...

[arfster]

Originally Posted by millerbrad

Here are some benchmarks with the 8600GTS.

http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/...20playback.php

I'm curious how the 8600GT compares...

It should be about the same as the 7600GT for games, and almost as fast for HD acceleration (it's internally identical, just slightly slower clocks). The GTS looks to be very much overkill for the latter if that review you quote is right - <10% suggests the processor is doing pretty much none of the decoding work, just as with dxva'ed MPEG2 HD.

More interesting might be the 8500 models, as even fanless the 8600 cards are still dumping an enormous amount of heat into your case (as well as stressing the psu, creating more heat). Even if they perform nowhere near as well, it should still be enough for any processor of the last 2 years.

[Mark_A_W]

Do they still tear for VMR9? (Every Nvidia card I've tried so far tears - from a 5950 to a 7800GT).

Does Powerstrip work stablely/reliable with them? (Doesn't work quite right with a 6800gt, the timings aren't completely stable and repeatable - they are a tiny bit different each time).

Does Reclock work with them? (Reclock doesn't work properly with an ATi x1950 - it doesn't detect the refresh rate properly, particularly for interlaced res's).

Yep...I'm having trouble finding a new HTPC card...

[arfster]

Originally Posted by Mark_A_W

Do they still tear for VMR9? (Every Nvidia card I've tried so far tears - from a 5950 to a 7800GT).

Probably - the only fix for this will come when EVR becomes more commonly used. Until then, renderless exclusive is the only solution.

[Mark_A_W]

What's EVR?

[arfster]

Originally Posted by Mark_A_W

What's EVR?

Enhanced Video Renderer - Vista's replacement for VMR9 (although I think it's possible to add it to XP also). Doesn't work perfectly yet because media-player writers haven't fully got to grips with it, but there's definite promise. With 100.65 it doesn't tear for me at all, although later drivers do

[Tulli]

8800gts does no tear for me, Vista or XP. In XP I can watch ZP and Theatertek without problems on secondary monitor at 1920x1080p at 60 or 24hz, windowless or windowed (C2D e6600). In fact this has been a major surprise with this card.

[Smidget]

8600GTs are up on newegg.com

[vairulez]

TT 2.5 will be using EVR

[barth2k]

Originally Posted by gorman42

Vista is a small portion of the market today, yet the newest capabilities of these cards are exploited first on Vista. For XP support we're going to have to wait.

really? I thought dx10 will not be supported in XP **at all**. I guess now I really have no reason to upgrade.

[vairulez]

I think gorman42 was talking about PV2, directx10 won't be supported in XP

[CoolHost]

I am building a new HTPC. I was set to get the 8800GTS until I came across the new 8600GTS model. The card will be use for 100% movie and HD content viewing, no gaming. From what I have read the new 8600 cards should perform better for viewing HT content at 1080p. Is this correct? Assuming this is correct, is there any reason to get the 8800 over the 8600 for viewing HD content?

Thanks
Jon