52" Sharp 92U or Samsung 65F - Which of these would you buy?

[guzz]

Due to many issues including specs, cost, time constraints, etc, I've narrowed my search to these two TV's:
Sharp LC-52D92U
Samsung LN-T5265F
I've read over the different threads involving both of these TV's and still am having difficulty deciding between the two. I am interested in hearing everyone's opinion on which one of these they would buy and why.

Thanks in advance ,
Guzz

[bballer123]

I absolutely love the 5265 except for one thing. It is extremely bright because of that clearer screen. If it was upto me, I would take the 5265 and you dont have to about any backlight issues.

[guzz]

thanks baller,
that is the kind of opinion I am looking for. Any info on how sd looks on either of these tvs.
thanks,
guzz

[dad1153]

Since both sets have high contrast ratios/good blacks it comes down to a handful of smaller issues that could add-up in the long run:

-will you hang the TV from the wall or keep it on the stand in a table? If its the latter the Sammy 5265 has a swivel stand that rotates the TV sideways about 45 degrees, a very cool feature few HDTV's in the market have.

-banding is something that has plagued Sharp models lately. 'Mura' and backlight inconsistency have plagued a few Sammy models. Could you live more with the potential flaws of one brand than the flaws of the other? Are you more susceptible to banding or to 'mura'?

-do you want any form of Picture-in-Picture in your daily TV viewing? The 5265 has it (though not as optimized as HDTV's from Olevia and Mitsubishi) but the Sharp models don't.

-how patient are you at tweaking/adjusting the TV to get maximum performance? Most reports on AVS state that the Sharps have red push out of the box and takes some tweaking to get rid of it. But the Sharp HDTV's don't have as many tweaking options as the new 5265 Sammy, which is loaded with them.

[EADGBE]

I was considering a Sammy 5265, then I read about all of the HDMI video dropouts in that huge thread, now I'm not so sure.

[rodr2257]

just came from visiting "P.C. Richard" and i have to put in two cents would on my part for this one! Sharp's 52D92U is a real winner in my book! it has all the inputs and outputs anyone would ever need and the PQ was amazing! this is the i'm getting... real soon too!

[r1dude57]

Your chances of getting a defective Sharp due to banding is horrendous. The Samsung could have some HDMI issues depending on connected source componenets. However, those are easily remedied by firmware upgrades where the screen uniformity problems on the Sharp are for life. I was going to purchase a 46D92U or the 46D82U until I was able to compare them side by side with the 4665 Samsung. The Sharps seemed a bit soft, with the Samsung looking much crisper. I will say that I do have problems with my 4665 HDMI inputs for now, but the picture is so jaw dropping that I am seriously considering switching to the 5265(with the newer firmware of course ). The picture on the Sammy is much more adjustable than the Sharp also. The Sharp does 1080p pixel mapping over component however, unlike the Sammy. Good luck man, both are fine sets, but if it were my money, I'd be riding that 5265 train and not looking back. Just hope that you get a newer model version...

[taurus2007]

Originally Posted by rodr2257

just came from visiting "P.C. Richard" and i have to put in two cents would on my part for this one! Sharp's 52D92U is a real winner in my book! it has all the inputs and outputs anyone would ever need and the PQ was amazing! this is the i'm getting... real soon too!

If you plan to purchase Sharp, make sure you purchase it somewhere where it has a good return policy in case you get a banding set because once you see it, it's not real fun to enjoy your new tv anymore.

[darkninja67]

Buying right now I would go with the Samsung easily. I would not want to pay $2500 for a ride on the Sharp banding merry-go-round.

[EADGBE]

Originally Posted by r1dude57

Your chances of getting a defective Sharp due to banding is horrendous. The Samsung could have some HDMI issues depending on connected source componenets. However, those are easily remedied by firmware upgrades where the screen uniformity problems on the Sharp are for life. I was going to purchase a 46D92U or the 46D82U until I was able to compare them side by side with the 4665 Samsung. The Sharps seemed a bit soft, with the Samsung looking much crisper. I will say that I do have problems with my 4665 HDMI inputs for now, but the picture is so jaw dropping that I am seriously considering switching to the 5265(with the newer firmware of course ). The picture on the Sammy is much more adjustable than the Sharp also. The Sharp does 1080p pixel mapping over component however, unlike the Sammy. Good luck man, both are fine sets, but if it were my money, I'd be riding that 5265 train and not looking back. Just hope that you get a newer model version...

Which is the firmware version that fixes the HDMI dropout on the xx65?

[r1dude57]

So far it looks like 1028/1008 is working pretty good with the exception of a couple cable boxes.

[austintaper]

i've never had 1 drop or flash with 1024/1008 and this is after a full month of heavy viewing, gaming, etc.

[r1dude57]

Originally Posted by austintaper

i've never had 1 drop or flash with 1024/1008 and this is after a full month of heavy viewing, gaming, etc.

I believe you have an xbox premium hooked up through VGA, not an Elite hooked up through HDMI, therefore you will not experience the drops/flashes. That is at least what was pictured in your pm when I was looking for VGA results with this tv.

[austintaper]

Originally Posted by r1dude57

I believe you have an xbox premium hooked up through VGA, not an Elite hooked up through HDMI, therefore you will not experience the drops/flashes. That is at least what was pictured in your pm when I was looking for VGA results with this tv.

just because my xbox360 is not hooked up via hdmi does not mean I wouldn't experience hdmi dropouts/flashes with other equipment like hd-dvr or a dvd player.

your statement makes assumptions that i must have my console hooked up via hdmi to experience drops/flashes and that is not correct as these flashes/drops can occur with other devices connected via hdmi. now if you wanted to narrow this down to hdmi port #3, then I'll acknowledge that I don't use #3 but 2 of the 3 hdmi ports I've used heavily and once again i can say i have not had 1 flash or drop.

[Kobal]

Originally Posted by austintaper

just because my xbox360 is not hooked up via hdmi does not mean I wouldn't experience hdmi dropouts/flashes with other equipment like hd-dvr or a dvd player.

your statement makes assumptions that i must have my console hooked up via hdmi to experience drops/flashes and that is not correct as these flashes/drops can occur with other devices connected via hdmi. now if you wanted to narrow this down to hdmi port #3, then I'll acknowledge that I don't use #3 but 2 of the 3 hdmi ports I've used heavily and once again i can say i have not had 1 flash or drop.

Everything i have read with the issues of dropped hdmi has to do with sonyps3 and hdmi hookups only.

I had this set and was satisfied other than everytime i played a ps3 game i lost picture or had a flash about every 15min. Suposidly it only does this during gaming which is exactly what happened to me. Movies, regular hd tv, even blue ray worked perfect. I returned the lcd to try a panny 700u plasma. I like the plasma but kinda miss the LCD sammy. So i started to read into the dropping of hdmi and flashing. It seems as if they have that narrowed down to ps3 gameing audio knocking out the signal. I guess its sending signals to the tv its not likeing on the handshake. I will say that the panasonic dosent have this happen. The pansonic plasma just looks dingy to me compaired to the sammy lcd.

I've been thinking about takeing the pansonic 700u back and getting the sammy lcd i liked the tv allot. I see that lg, mitsubishi, sony, and vizio are all bringing out new 52" models in the next couple of months tho so i may wait till i view those. I'd like to be able to hook up my audio the way i have it now. Which it sounds like the samsung wont be able to play ps3 that way.

[Decoi]

To the OP:

I returned my Sharp 42D82U and getting a Sammy 4665, just because of the banding.

Don't get me wrong, the sharp was great. It did it's job, but once you see the flaws, it's there for good. As much as I want to keep the sharp, it bothered me so much to exchange it for a 4665. My TV is coming in tomorrow and hopefully I can check out the HDMI drop out problem with my PS3 (through HDMI).

65 does have "high glare" due to the different screen they use, but if you can control the ambient light in the room you'll place the TV in, it shouldn't be too bad. I was given some advice with the glare and it is very similar to CRT tube TVs. If you can stand the typical glare from those TVs, you should be fine.

So it's a little funny I'm giving you advice before I even have my TV, but from experience with my Sharp TV, I was upset, but glad I found the problem within the 30 day satisfaction policy.

[Bmfr79]

Originally Posted by Kobal

Everything i have read with the issues of dropped hdmi has to do with sonyps3 and hdmi hookups only.

I had this set and was satisfied other than everytime i played a ps3 game i lost picture or had a flash about every 15min. Suposidly it only does this during gaming which is exactly what happened to me. Movies, regular hd tv, even blue ray worked perfect. I returned the lcd to try a panny 700u plasma. I like the plasma but kinda miss the LCD sammy. So i started to read into the dropping of hdmi and flashing. It seems as if they have that narrowed down to ps3 gameing audio knocking out the signal. I guess its sending signals to the tv its not likeing on the handshake. I will say that the panasonic dosent have this happen. The pansonic plasma just looks dingy to me compaired to the sammy lcd.

I've been thinking about takeing the pansonic 700u back and getting the sammy lcd i liked the tv allot. I see that lg, mitsubishi, sony, and vizio are all bringing out new 52" models in the next couple of months tho so i may wait till i view those. I'd like to be able to hook up my audio the way i have it now. Which it sounds like the samsung wont be able to play ps3 that way.

I have the PS3 and the 360 Elite connected via HDMI and have had no issues whatsoever.

Guzz,

The 5265F is the way to go. I actually looked at the same two televisions before making a decision. They seem to have similar features, however the overall PQ and options available on the 5265F clearly established it as the winner. Good luck on your future purchase.

[cheesiest]

Your choices are similar to my own. I cast my vote for the Samsung. Sharp banding issues scared me away early in my search. I bought the Sammy 5265 and I am thoroughly satisfied. I use XBOX 360 over VGA. Both games and WMV video (720P and 1080P) look excellent.
Remember that the 5265 has a "clear" or "gloss" finish similar to a plasma where the Sharp and most other LCDs have a matte finish. I prefer the crisper picture of the "gloss" but it also delivers crisper reflections in a bright room. I worried about this prior to my purchase but I've found that it hasn't hindered my enjoyment of the TV. If you want to read more about it there are three thread's worth. Shouldn't require more than 30 hours of reading

[r1dude57]

Originally Posted by austintaper

just because my xbox360 is not hooked up via hdmi does not mean I wouldn't experience hdmi dropouts/flashes with other equipment like hd-dvr or a dvd player.

your statement makes assumptions that i must have my console hooked up via hdmi to experience drops/flashes and that is not correct as these flashes/drops can occur with other devices connected via hdmi. now if you wanted to narrow this down to hdmi port #3, then I'll acknowledge that I don't use #3 but 2 of the 3 hdmi ports I've used heavily and once again i can say i have not had 1 flash or drop.

Man, I wish I could say the same thing. My 360 elite seems to be the biggest problem as far as HDMI devices go. Yes, granted that the tvs will not flash/drop with all HDMI devices, just some. However my tv acts up using my computer, 360 elite and my cable box...essentially everything I own. Will be returning soon to get the 5265 with newer boards/firmware from amazon.
Since you are using VGA for your 360, do you use the 'home theater pc' mode in the settings? Does it do anything useful with the 360 via VGA? I went to buy the VGA cable after seeing your picture the other night, but I'm not paying 42.99 for it.
I guess I'll keep running my 360 via HDMI @1080i. I get a few flashes at 1080i, but no drops yet.

[austintaper]

Originally Posted by r1dude57

...Since you are using VGA for your 360, do you use the 'home theater pc' mode in the settings? Does it do anything useful with the 360 via VGA? I went to buy the VGA cable after seeing your picture the other night, but I'm not paying 42.99 for it.
I guess I'll keep running my 360 via HDMI @1080i. I get a few flashes at 1080i, but no drops yet.

Admittedly I have done minimal tweaking besides a few settings I found in the callibration thread when I first received my set. Since then I haven't changed a thing as I'm happy w/ the PQ in all sources. As for the VGA, all I did was connect the vga, changed the source to 'PC', adjusted the display settings on the 360 to 1080 and began playing. The pics you saw were default settings btw.

[ares_toronto]

I have both Sharp 46D82U and Samsung 4661F running side by side in my room and have to admit that Sharp is a little better in term of the sharp image, evenly colored.

Also, I need "Closed Caption" and both of them has the pretty much the same feature only the Samsung's caption option is totally not working and not response to any custom settings (Always showing default), not sure it is only my TV tho. Looks like a software problem to me.

Some time, a samll thing can tell something, simply by looking at the "Closed Caption", for the smooth level at the edge of the fonts, Sharp is way better than Samsung.

However, My Sharp does have medium banding issue, and my Sammy does have HDMI dropouts

Which one I would choose, if they are the same price, I would go for Sharp, but in my case, the 4661 is $500 cheaper than the 46D82U, so I would probably go with Samsung if the HDMI dropout problem can be fixed. Only because of it is cheap.

[Rennject X]

I see a lot of people on the forum ordering the Samsung LN-T5265F from Amazon. I saw that it was around $1000 cheaper than other vendors like BB or Crutchfield. How can Amazon do this? Do they have a giant batch of the Sammys with older/bad boards that they are trying to move? I guess I'm missing something, but I haven't read about it on a thread yet.

[EADGBE]

Originally Posted by Rennject X

I see a lot of people on the forum ordering the Samsung LN-T5265F from Amazon. I saw that it was around $1000 cheaper than other vendors like BB or Crutchfield. How can Amazon do this? Do they have a giant batch of the Sammys with older/bad boards that they are trying to move? I guess I'm missing something, but I haven't read about it on a thread yet.

I think Amazon is a nationwide thing, so anyone, anywhere who has a TV can sell it through Amazon. If they want to move the TV for somereason, perhaps even to break even on it just to get it out of inventory then Amazon is the way to go. I'd be afraid to order on-line, who know's how the TV's will get treated, where they've REALLY been and by what shipping companies, and once you have the TV these on-line retailers are very difficult to return. I know Amazon is the best in this regard, but still I'd rather pay extra and go to CC or BB and know that if I don't like the TV for ANY reason I can return it, no questions asked. I've already been through a 52XBR2 and now a Sammy 5054, which I'm planning to return. It wouldn't have been the end of the world if I had to keep either but for me it's worth the extra dough to be able to get the TV in the home, watch it for 30 days and make a decision if I want to commit or not. Especially with all the issues these flat pannels have nowadays, these manufacturers bring on themselves with sets that have drop outs, juddering, banding, etc.....if the sets were perfect and returns were just nit picking I'd say that isn't right, but when a TV has a GOOD chance to have some issue that really interferes with your ablility to enjoy it, having that guaranteed return policy is like money in the bank.

[dmzguy]

Sharp 92u

If you don't mind the HDMI handshaking issues, uneven backlight issues, and BlackCrush (most important in my book), then maybe a Samsung 61F; but not a 65F unless you live in a cave.

The 65F is the "glaremeister"; I don't really understand who they're marketing to; I guess they're marketing to people that want "a plasma TV, but without burn-in"; the 65F will provide the closest to Plasma's color gamut, but the glare is even worse than many plasma displays with anti-glare coatings and it IS still an LCD so motion issues still persist.

Go take a look at the Sharp 92u and stop being scared by people throwing around the "banding" word; do you see any banding? Do the professional meters that Sharp is using to check these displays as they come off the assembly liine find any ACTUAL out-of-tolerance backlight uniformity issues? -nope... The Sonys, the Samsung 61 and 65f, and the Sharp TVs (all LCDs) have some sort of uniformity issues, it's inherent to the technology (the backlight tecnology). If it is within tolerances you will not see it in normal viewing; if it is not then you have a defective panel that you need to get replaced.

Personally, if I wanted a TV with really bright vivid colors and glare, I would NOT get the 65F; I would get a Plasma; a plasma would have superior motion performance and I would pick a Plasma with a processor that does not induce the "black crush" that plagues both the 61F and 65F Samsungs.

The 61F makes quite a bit of sense if you don't like glare, and don't want to deal with burn-in; BUT it's still not perfect and again, black crush just ruins the point of even having the deep blacks in the first place.

That leaves the 92U that has GREAT shadow detail if you're concerned with burn-in or glare.

Personally, my decision is made easier as I'm moving to Europe and the European version of the D92U launches on July 1st. I'll have no glare, fantastic non-crushed blacks, and no 3:2 motion "judder" as my display will be running at 100hz...


Adam

[EADGBE]

Originally Posted by dmzguy

Sharp 92u

If you don't mind the HDMI handshaking issues, uneven backlight issues, and BlackCrush (most important in my book), then maybe a Samsung 61F; but not a 65F unless you live in a cave.

The 65F is the "glaremeister"; I don't really understand who they're marketing to; I guess they're marketing to people that want "a plasma TV, but without burn-in"; the 65F will provide the closest to Plasma's color gamut, but the glare is even worse than many plasma displays with anti-glare coatings and it IS still an LCD so motion issues still persist.

Go take a look at the Sharp 92u and stop being scared by people throwing around the "banding" word; do you see any banding? Do the professional meters that Sharp is using to check these displays as they come off the assembly liine find any ACTUAL out-of-tolerance backlight uniformity issues? -nope... The Sonys, the Samsung 61 and 65f, and the Sharp TVs (all LCDs) have some sort of uniformity issues, it's inherent to the technology (the backlight tecnology). If it is within tolerances you will not see it in normal viewing; if it is not then you have a defective panel that you need to get replaced.

Personally, if I wanted a TV with really bright vivid colors and glare, I would NOT get the 65F; I would get a Plasma; a plasma would have superior motion performance and I would pick a Plasma with a processor that does not induce the "black crush" that plagues both the 61F and 65F Samsungs.

The 61F makes quite a bit of sense if you don't like glare, and don't want to deal with burn-in; BUT it's still not perfect and again, black crush just ruins the point of even having the deep blacks in the first place.

That leaves the 92U that has GREAT shadow detail if you're concerned with burn-in or glare.

Personally, my decision is made easier as I'm moving to Europe and the European version of the D92U launches on July 1st. I'll have no glare, fantastic non-crushed blacks, and no 3:2 motion "judder" as my display will be running at 100hz...


Adam

I really didn't consider the D9U because I've read so much about these banding issues, but your post is making me think about it. The D9U did look great in the store, I didn't notice any banding but then again I'm not exactly sure what that is or what I'm looking for other then uneven areas of light. I guess more research is needed before I order the 5265.

[dmzguy]

EADGBE, I'm glad to hear it!

There's only three things that you need to consider when evaluating a new TV purchase, two of them are Subjective and are just one person's opinion based upon their eyes, their viewing preferences, and the environment in which they viewed the TV; one of them is Objective, based upon very expensive tools and common test methodology. I would generally say that Objective information is much more useful; but watching TV is Subjective. Are you going to be staring at a bunch of meters that are watching your TV? Are you going to have someone else use their eyeballs to watch your TV and then tell you what they see? Or are YOU going to watch YOUR TV in YOUR room?

So in order of importance:
1. Evaluate how you perceive the TV in as close of an environment as you can get to "your environmnt"; evalute the TV along side other TVs (Subjective).
2. Evaluate the Objective information that exists (statistics that can't be tweaked by marketing departments, any NTSC color gamut and contrast measurements taken by reputable reviewers with professional equipment under standardized, controlled conditions.
3. Evaluate what other's are saying; consider their motives, expertise, and evaluation methodology and "tools" closely.

On the D92U and banding, let's go ahead and try it:

3. Others are saying that alot of these TVs have bad banding (how many TRUELY had banding and how many are whiners that like to stare at gray screens and crank up the brightness? ; what is the measure for whether a TV has banding or not? Has the image been photoshopped? What was the exposure on the camera set to? etc... What are the ACTUAL numbers of people that have had 92Us with confirmed banding vs the total # of 92us made and sold? etc...) Many others are saying that THEIR TV does NOT exibit banding that they can see or that they can see during non-gray screen viewing; same questions for these folks... Many people RECENTLY on this and other threads comment that they are suprised that when they view these screens in person that they do not see banding after going to extreme lengths to TRY and find them; same questions to those people.

2. After many complaints on AVS forums and other sites by "AVSers"; Sharp launched a full investigation on the existance of and possible causes for banding; they use very high-end equipment to Objectively (the equipment doesn't have a motive and can't lie; it's equipment) measure variations in screen uniformity across several points on the screen and they have found no more problems in the overwhelming majority of screens (and they're now checking for it.) If there WAS a problem it would be in Sharp's best interest to fix it; some people here have said "if they keep having banding, the problem must be very difficult to fix or something"; I'm sure that's true it's VERYE difficult (impossible) to fix a problem that doesn't exist..

1. Its YOUR EYEBALLS that will be watching your TV; did you see banding?

Buying a TV via an educated decision is a decision between the lesser of evils; if you spend the time to go through the AVS threads you will find Problems and "problems" with each and every TV and technology known to man.

Me, I'm lucky, to me the best TV on paper (based upon all the stats and documented problems and "problems") also happens to be the best TV based upon my own Subjective viewing in person and when taking into consideration the environment that my TV will be in. For the the answer is the Sharp D92u (european edition) X1DE I believe it is called over there.

Now could the Toshiba LX177 top it? Maybe, I haven't seen the Toshiba yet, but considering their contrast ratio track record; I doubt it. Will the Samsung 81 top it? I REALLY hope so and expect it to, but I don't think the price will be in the same ballpark.

The ability to accept 24p and display it without 3:2 pulldown and without the P being converted to "I" and back again would be great; but quite frankly I'm buying the european model so I don't have to worry about that. Better Standard Def processing would be a plus, and HDMI 1.3b support would be too, but I've already factored all of that in, and the Sharp 92u comes out on top for me.

Good luck on your quest!

Adam

[picasso1850]

Adam - Great posts! Informative, well written and thought out. I applaud you. I believe you hit the nail with the hammer with your rational. Although its hard to argue with those that say spending 3xxx on a TV should command absolute perfection, I agree with that to an extent.

Realistically you can buy a d92 for 2xxx from a reputable online reseller, if by some smalllll chance you get one of the early production sets that have a noticeable banding issue its well DOCUMENTED that Sharp is GREAT with making things right, either credit or replacement.

I think people really need to step back and see how great this set is, not only from a technological standpoint but also at a very reasonable price point. The .01% of the time a 'banding' issue shows up on the screen holds no weight...neither does staring at blank grey screens (are you seriously judging a tv by a blank grey screen)

Watch TV shows - Thats why it was created!

[EADGBE]

Adam - excellent post and I will take all of that into consideration, thanks.

[bpmurr]

I have to disagree with Adam on the D92. There is a history starting with the D62 series of sets having issues with screen uniformity. I’m not aware of Sharp’s testing procedures but I don’t think Adam is qualified to say he knows either way. The Sharp units don’t show the banding as much in the Best Buy store lighting using the Dynamic mode they are in. However, when you get them home and calibrate them the ugly truth comes out. Depending on what you watch sometimes you’ll notice it and sometimes you won’t. Brain Age for the Wii is a great game that uses a lot of solid colors. It shows off banding pretty well with solid dark colors. I would highly recommend not going with a Sharp set at this time. I have gone through six units now and they all have had banding. If this was not commonplace on the Sharp I should have a brand free set at this point. It’s just not me either because there are hundreds of people with the same problem and pictures, Youtube videos, etc. to back this up. I honestly wish I could tell you this was a great set because outside of the banding issue it would be. I’d be interested to know if Adam owns one. I might have overlooked that and my apologies if so.

[Philber]

I have to agree with Bpmurr on this one. I have had three 52D82s and they all have unacceptable banding. With all due respect, the peole who talk about banding as if it is some trivial issue do not know what they are talking about. I would suspect that none of them actually own this TV. The bands do not show up on ordinary content most of the time, but when they do show up, and they do, it is very disappointing. Some games, golf and any show that features pans of a clouded sky or solid color will clearly show the banding. Some of the Sharps have the banding problem more severely than others, but all of them seem to have it to some degree.

It is a bit funny to read all the posts from people who claim that (a) the banding has been fixed by Sharp, (b) the banding was only on earlier sets, (c) the banding is not visible in ordinary content, (d) the banding is only reported by anal-retentive videophiles with nothing better to do, and, my favourite, (e) the banding goes away over time. I have also heard variations on all these claims in the big box retail stores that sell these TVs. Having owned three of these TVs, and having read thousands of posts in the Sharp LCD forums, I can definitively say that all these claims are false.

The Sharp is incredible, except for the banding. The Samsung is great, except for the glare and the HDMI issues. Pick your poison. But don't buy a Sharp on the basis that the banding talk is all hype - it isn't. It's real, and it's a drag.

The easiest way to test for banding is to burn a DVD from TVblink.com. Just bring that into the store and have them play the banding tests on the Sharp. The banding test on the TVblink DVD is just ordinary content - blue sky with clouds - but it is ordinary content that tends to clearly show bands.