DIY inwall sub?

pocoloco · 08-24-07, 03:42 PM

Has anyone here done an DIY inwall sub? I'm not talking IB subs... but specifically a sub that has its own enclosure and is in the wall.

I'm imagining something that is very thin and tall and fitting in between studs?

Details and pictures if possible please.

kgveteran · 08-24-07, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocoloco

Has anyone here done an DIY inwall sub? I'm not talking IB subs... but specifically a sub that has its own enclosure and is in the wall.

I'm imagining something that is very thin and tall and fitting in between studs?

Details and pictures if possible please.

I think Morel sells low profile drivers intended for auto applications.You may look in that direction.

Other wise you are stuck using multiple smaller driver arrays.

Vcook · 12-07-07, 10:26 AM

I'd like to do this too, something along the lines of what Polk produces with this model

Whats the best way to determine box design and driver selection? Anyone have suggestions on this? I think a pair of these made out of MDF with decent drivers would sound great and hide very well. I'm still in the framing stages so building this in would be cake.

Vcook · 12-07-07, 10:34 AM

speakercraft sells something similar too. both are more than I want to spend though, that's why I'm in the DIY forum

Jim Hef · 12-07-07, 10:39 AM

When you consider the average stud bay, if the box is built of 3/4" MDF, its internal volume is only about 1.35 cubic feet. With a 2x4 wall, you are then limited to a driver depth that won't exceed about 3". Subs meant for auto use may work, but it would be better to join several stud bays to increase the internal volume, and build a small box at the base of this to house the driver. If it's a non-load bearing wall, you could build a box that takes up two or three stud bays, and then attach the drywall to this, giving you something near what you are considering. Most of the manufactured "inwall" subs are somewhat pricey, and use larger remote amplification to get what they want. Keep us informed of how you proceed.

Vcook · 12-07-07, 10:44 AM

My stud wall will have a depth closer to 6+ inches, I should measure to be sure. This should allow me more driver selection. Amplification would be remote as that is the easiest route.

Thomas-W · 12-07-07, 11:01 AM

Unless you can find a shallow 'pancake' driver you're out of luck because standard drivers are too deep to fit...

AFAIK the TangBand WT-1427B 10" neo (Parts Express P/N 264-862) is the only pancake woofer currently available, unless John J from AE speakers has some baskets left over.

Vcook · 12-07-07, 11:18 AM

If I have more mounting depth, say 5-7" I might be able to use a standard driver, yes?

Thomas-W · 12-07-07, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vcook

If I have more mounting depth, say 5-7" I might be able to use a standard driver, yes?

Probably not. Just being able to cram a driver in there isn't enough. There needs to be space for damping material behind the driver to help kill the rearwave.

Jim Hef · 12-07-07, 12:17 PM

Also, you could frame a double wall to a depth that you may want for a standard subwoofer driver, and then have the increased internal volume of box. You don't need to frame with large members, just space two 2x4 walls apart. Of course, you're going to lose some floor space in that scenario. A 2x6 is 5-1/2" deep. Subtract the box material, and you're still only going to have about 4" of internal depth for the driver. You really should shoot for at least 8".

Vcook · 12-07-07, 12:18 PM

hmmmm, maybe I should just stick with a good old fashion box sub on my floor. sigh.

Jim Hef · 12-07-07, 12:40 PM

Think about my other suggestion, and have a small box projecting on the face of the wall to house the driver, and let the large MDF box be the wall. You'll get what you want, and not use up the floor space.

cozmo1976 · 12-07-07, 12:40 PM

Here are all sorts of shallow mount subwoofers.

http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Produ...FShallow_Mount

gable74 · 12-07-07, 12:51 PM

Why not make a thick wall? Instead of conventional 2x4 or 2x6 studs, use 2x10 or 2x12. Go 2' on center and have approx a 10" x 21" x 90" (11 cubic feet) box for your sub. I dont know your exact application, but if the wall is not that long, the price difference between 2x6's and 2x12's wouldnt be to bad.....maybe $100 or so for a semi-short wall.

matt5112 · 12-07-07, 01:10 PM

Heres a woofer thats inexpensive and shallow.
http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/pro...roducts_id=106
Its in the same ballpark as the TangBang with similar excursion. It also might be worth looking into.

Vcook · 12-07-07, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Hef

Think about my other suggestion, and have a small box projecting on the face of the wall to house the driver, and let the large MDF box be the wall. You'll get what you want, and not use up the floor space.

this is what I was thinking from the beginning, maybe I didnt describe it well but I was thinking just like the speakercraft sub I showed.

Jim Hef · 12-07-07, 03:13 PM

But that Speakercraft unit sits flush to the drywall with its proprietary driver. I suggested having a box project from the wall to increase the driver depth while still using a 2x4 or 2x6 construction technique. If mounted low toward the baseboard, you'd achieve what you were looking for, and you'd just drywall around the projection.

Stealthlude · 12-07-07, 07:11 PM

I dont think they are that cheap.. but what about the new midbass product TC sounds / Audio Pulse came out with?

They are made in 6.5 and 8"

http://www.audiopulse.com/products/components/rmb

arande2 · 12-07-07, 10:57 PM

I was looking at those Audiopulse drivers earlier. Hmm.

I thought this looked pretty interesting as a shallow woofer.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...2aea784b48c724

matt5112 · 12-08-07, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arande2

I was looking at those Audiopulse drivers earlier. Hmm.

I thought this looked pretty interesting as a shallow woofer.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...2aea784b48c724

35 Hz Fs is a bit high for a sub. 3.5 mm of xmax is quite low, in line with midwoofers. And the 84 dB sensitivity all add up to not you're ideal subwoofer driver.

duecer32 · 12-08-07, 09:04 PM

there are a lot of car audio directed subs with very shallow installation depths if an in wall is a must. i have the following pioneer, it has decent performance @ 3.5" install depth.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...394781,00.html

John_E_Janowitz · 12-08-07, 11:05 PM

We were going to offer an inwall subwoofer. We probably still will once we start manufacturing our own slim drivers again. For now I figure I'll post up what we had been doing and where to get the parts for some DIYers since you'd probably never be buying the completed sub anyway.

The following is a rendering of our dual 10" inwall subwoofer:

The cabinet was 14" wide, 3.375" deep and 88" tall. Made from 1/2" mdf braced quite a bit. It gives just over 1.5 cubic feet of airspace. The 10" woofers are the 10" 8ohm neo slimline that you can now purchase direct from Lorentz Audio. http://www.lorentz-audio.com They are really a very well made driver designed for small enclosures. You do need to have a decent amount of power to throw at them though. Anytime you try to cram drivers in a small enclosure, you do it at the loss of efficiency. With about 500W though you can get the pair of 10's moving quite well. I think the F3 point was around 35Hz or so and you can get decent response down to 20Hz in room.

Snell uses the same driver in their inwall subwoofer they retail at $1000: http://www.snellacoustics.com/ProductDetails/3420.asp

They use a single driver and vent the cabinet. Either way, you can build the double sealed version or the single ported version for a fraction of the cost. The 10" drivers are $70 each from Lorentz. If you need more output, build a few more of the cabinets and put them next to each other. I would choose this shallow mount driver over any other ones on the market today.

Here's a pic of an install we did for a showcase home in town. We did some custom MTM's for the front 3 channels and then the dual 10" subwoofer.

John

Jim Hef · 12-10-07, 10:54 AM

From that write-up: "you’re looking at the world’s most capable midbass punch in a 6.5” or 8” size." Again, probably not what you'd be looking for as a sub.

Vcook · 12-12-07, 03:47 PM

thanks for the posts everyone! Thanks especially to John J, thats almost exactly along the lines I was thinking. I have more depth so I might make something a tad deeper and less tall.

Jim Hef · 12-12-07, 04:36 PM

John, nice looking enclosure, and thanks for posting that for the DIY guys here!

John_E_Janowitz · 12-13-07, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vcook

thanks for the posts everyone! Thanks especially to John J, thats almost exactly along the lines I was thinking. I have more depth so I might make something a tad deeper and less tall.

You're welcome. If you can go with a larger volume, that will only help. The larger you can go with the enclosure, the more extension you will get and less power you will need to move the same amount of air.

John

Vcook · 12-14-07, 09:58 AM

Let me ask everyone this, since I am still in the framing stages would I be better off making 2 enclosures with 1 sub each?

Vcook · 01-03-08, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John_E_Janowitz

We The 10" woofers are the 10" 8ohm neo slimline that you can now purchase direct from Lorentz Audio. http://www.lorentz-audio.com They are really a very well made driver designed for small enclosures.

I was going to order a couple of these from them but their website is screwed up on the ordering page and I get a number disconnected message when i try to phone them!! Any idea of their still in business? Their area code makes them local to me which would be nice.

08-24-07, 03:42 PM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
pocoloco Advanced Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 916 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	DIY inwall sub? Has anyone here done an DIY inwall sub? I'm not talking IB subs... but specifically a sub that has its own enclosure and is in the wall. I'm imagining something that is very thin and tall and fitting in between studs? Details and pictures if possible please.

12-07-07, 10:39 AM	#5 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
Jim Hef AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 3,610	When you consider the average stud bay, if the box is built of 3/4" MDF, its internal volume is only about 1.35 cubic feet. With a 2x4 wall, you are then limited to a driver depth that won't exceed about 3". Subs meant for auto use may work, but it would be better to join several stud bays to increase the internal volume, and build a small box at the base of this to house the driver. If it's a non-load bearing wall, you could build a box that takes up two or three stud bays, and then attach the drywall to this, giving you something near what you are considering. Most of the manufactured "inwall" subs are somewhat pricey, and use larger remote amplification to get what they want. Keep us informed of how you proceed.

12-07-07, 11:01 AM	#7 \| Link
Thomas-W AVS Special Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: 5280' Posts: 1,269	Unless you can find a shallow 'pancake' driver you're out of luck because standard drivers are too deep to fit... AFAIK the TangBand WT-1427B 10" neo (Parts Express P/N 264-862) is the only pancake woofer currently available, unless John J from AE speakers has some baskets left over. __________________ Cult of the Infinitely Baffled (Resource for IB sub builders) Last edited by Thomas-W; 12-07-07 at 11:55 AM.. Reason: typo

12-07-07, 12:17 PM	#10 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
Jim Hef AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 3,610	Also, you could frame a double wall to a depth that you may want for a standard subwoofer driver, and then have the increased internal volume of box. You don't need to frame with large members, just space two 2x4 walls apart. Of course, you're going to lose some floor space in that scenario. A 2x6 is 5-1/2" deep. Subtract the box material, and you're still only going to have about 4" of internal depth for the driver. You really should shoot for at least 8".

12-07-07, 01:10 PM	#15 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
matt5112 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 349	Heres a woofer thats inexpensive and shallow. http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/pro...roducts_id=106 Its in the same ballpark as the TangBang with similar excursion. It also might be worth looking into.

12-07-07, 10:26 AM	#3 \| Link
Vcook Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 539	I'd like to do this too, something along the lines of what Polk produces with this model Whats the best way to determine box design and driver selection? Anyone have suggestions on this? I think a pair of these made out of MDF with decent drivers would sound great and hide very well. I'm still in the framing stages so building this in would be cake.

12-07-07, 10:34 AM	#4 \| Link
Vcook Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 539	speakercraft sells something similar too. both are more than I want to spend though, that's why I'm in the DIY forum

12-07-07, 10:44 AM	#6 \| Link
Vcook Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 539	My stud wall will have a depth closer to 6+ inches, I should measure to be sure. This should allow me more driver selection. Amplification would be remote as that is the easiest route.

12-07-07, 11:18 AM	#8 \| Link
Vcook Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 539	If I have more mounting depth, say 5-7" I might be able to use a standard driver, yes?

12-07-07, 12:18 PM	#11 \| Link
Vcook Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 539	hmmmm, maybe I should just stick with a good old fashion box sub on my floor. sigh.

12-07-07, 12:40 PM	#12 \| Link
Jim Hef AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 3,610	Think about my other suggestion, and have a small box projecting on the face of the wall to house the driver, and let the large MDF box be the wall. You'll get what you want, and not use up the floor space.

12-07-07, 12:40 PM	#13 \| Link
cozmo1976 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Washington, NC Posts: 133	Here are all sorts of shallow mount subwoofers. http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Produ...FShallow_Mount

12-07-07, 12:51 PM	#14 \| Link
gable74 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 165	Why not make a thick wall? Instead of conventional 2x4 or 2x6 studs, use 2x10 or 2x12. Go 2' on center and have approx a 10" x 21" x 90" (11 cubic feet) box for your sub. I dont know your exact application, but if the wall is not that long, the price difference between 2x6's and 2x12's wouldnt be to bad.....maybe $100 or so for a semi-short wall.

12-07-07, 03:13 PM	#17 \| Link
Jim Hef AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 3,610	But that Speakercraft unit sits flush to the drywall with its proprietary driver. I suggested having a box project from the wall to increase the driver depth while still using a 2x4 or 2x6 construction technique. If mounted low toward the baseboard, you'd achieve what you were looking for, and you'd just drywall around the projection.

12-07-07, 07:11 PM	#18 \| Link
Stealthlude LFE Enthusiast Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 828	I dont think they are that cheap.. but what about the new midbass product TC sounds / Audio Pulse came out with? They are made in 6.5 and 8" http://www.audiopulse.com/products/components/rmb

12-07-07, 10:57 PM	#19 \| Link
arande2 Member² Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: SW Missouri Posts: 386	I was looking at those Audiopulse drivers earlier. Hmm. I thought this looked pretty interesting as a shallow woofer. http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...2aea784b48c724 __________________ Rattle your neighbor's windows!

12-08-07, 09:04 PM	#21 \| Link
duecer32 the dude Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 10	there are a lot of car audio directed subs with very shallow installation depths if an in wall is a must. i have the following pioneer, it has decent performance @ 3.5" install depth. http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...394781,00.html

12-08-07, 11:05 PM	#22 \| Link
John_E_Janowitz Advanced Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Green Bay, WI USA Posts: 602	We were going to offer an inwall subwoofer. We probably still will once we start manufacturing our own slim drivers again. For now I figure I'll post up what we had been doing and where to get the parts for some DIYers since you'd probably never be buying the completed sub anyway. The following is a rendering of our dual 10" inwall subwoofer: The cabinet was 14" wide, 3.375" deep and 88" tall. Made from 1/2" mdf braced quite a bit. It gives just over 1.5 cubic feet of airspace. The 10" woofers are the 10" 8ohm neo slimline that you can now purchase direct from Lorentz Audio. http://www.lorentz-audio.com They are really a very well made driver designed for small enclosures. You do need to have a decent amount of power to throw at them though. Anytime you try to cram drivers in a small enclosure, you do it at the loss of efficiency. With about 500W though you can get the pair of 10's moving quite well. I think the F3 point was around 35Hz or so and you can get decent response down to 20Hz in room. Snell uses the same driver in their inwall subwoofer they retail at $1000: http://www.snellacoustics.com/ProductDetails/3420.asp They use a single driver and vent the cabinet. Either way, you can build the double sealed version or the single ported version for a fraction of the cost. The 10" drivers are $70 each from Lorentz. If you need more output, build a few more of the cabinets and put them next to each other. I would choose this shallow mount driver over any other ones on the market today. Here's a pic of an install we did for a showcase home in town. We did some custom MTM's for the front 3 channels and then the dual 10" subwoofer. John __________________ John E. Janowitz Acoustic Elegance, LLC "Learn from the mistakes of others... you can't possibly live long enough to make them all yourself"

12-10-07, 10:54 AM	#23 \| Link
Jim Hef AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 3,610	From that write-up: "you’re looking at the world’s most capable midbass punch in a 6.5” or 8” size." Again, probably not what you'd be looking for as a sub.

12-12-07, 03:47 PM	#24 \| Link
Vcook Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 539	thanks for the posts everyone! Thanks especially to John J, thats almost exactly along the lines I was thinking. I have more depth so I might make something a tad deeper and less tall.

12-12-07, 04:36 PM	#25 \| Link
Jim Hef AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 3,610	John, nice looking enclosure, and thanks for posting that for the DIY guys here!

12-14-07, 09:58 AM	#27 \| Link
Vcook Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 539	Let me ask everyone this, since I am still in the framing stages would I be better off making 2 enclosures with 1 sub each?