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Confused no more: 63% BD US standalone market share = 63% total revenue spent

9K views 121 replies 49 participants last post by  5thDanMaster 
#1 ·
hey people. this should put a stop to the confusion caused by BDA's intentional left out of the 'revenue' bit. After the HD DVD's press conference that clearly contradict the figure, a BD insider Talkstr8t had no choice but to come clean and declare that the 63% was total revenue spent on standalone high-def players.


The original press quote by gizmodo:

Quote:
In US Blu-ray has 63% standalone unit market share and over 66% of hi-def disc sales

Confused AVS member wanting an answer from Insiders:


question =
Quote:
total revenue you mean X amount of dollars from POS sales vs actual units shipped?

Answer =
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t /forum/post/11488752


Yes, 63% of total revenue spent on standalone high-def players.


It's called marketing. At least no information was left out here, as opposed to the HD DVD PRG's claim regarding "standalone player sales being much higher in Europe", while conveniently ignoring the fact that when factoring in game consoles Blu-ray has a 94% market share.

quoted from the insiders' thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=899842&page=6
 
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#3 ·
I know. This is probably the biggest example of the BDA trying to clearly misslead people about Blu-Ray I have evern seen. It shows 2 things.


1.) the BDA uses poor marketing tactics which need to rely on bending the trueth or missleading people. Do they not have enough TRUE good news about their format that they have to result to this? Do they think this makes them look good?


2.) The BDA thinks we are studid. I actually feel insulted.


Its like fuel companies saying....people are buying way more fuel now then they did a few years ago Why? Just look at how much more money we are making.



FU BDA........FU.
 
#4 ·
No surprise. They did the same thing a while back with that "NPD study" claiming that stand alone player sales were dead even in the US.


Great response by Talkstraightey though. "no information was left out" except that they were talking about dollars and not install player numbers as they led everyone to believe.


I guess that's called "marketing" according to our resident expert.


FWIW, as when this happened months ago, I saw right through it, but to call deception "marketing" is like equating a salesman to a thief. Maybe in his world...
 
#6 ·
LOL


So I guess the PS3 is ahead of the Wii in the US then huh? Wow, how sad.
 
#7 ·
It's not really all that surprising they would use how much money consumers spent. Companies use that figure all the time to show how much of the consumer spending they are getting. It's kind of like this article

http://investing.reuters.co.uk/news/...yID=nN13363865


They want to show that more consumer dollars are being spent on their products then the competition.


It might a bit early in the life of HD players to be using this method but really it's not all that unusual.
 
#8 ·
Well, deception is the order of the day for BDA marketing. Remember the Fox "chart" from CES?


When the BDA folk complained at the press conference that Paramount had the same figures as everyone else, and couldn't answer why they would switch, they actually believe people would buy this 63 percent crap. Paramount obviously didn't.
 
#9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RussTC3 /forum/post/11494711


LOL


So I guess the PS3 is ahead of the Wii in the US then huh? Wow, how sad.

Even though the PS3 is more than double the Wii price, they still wouldn't have a higher market share than Nintendo using their new "market share metric".


It really annoys me that they can give a figure without a reference. I could say that HD DVD has a 100% market share and neglect to say that it's only in my household.............
 
#10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RussTC3 /forum/post/11494711


LOL


So I guess the PS3 is ahead of the Wii in the US then huh? Wow, how sad.

Early on, Sony did used the revenue numbers to describe how PS3 was doing well against the competition after a couple of NPD periods. They stopped doing that when they started getting outsold 3+ to 1.


Of course this kind of propaganda aren't effective in the console world, anyone can find NPD numbers for USA and Media Create numbers for Japan.
 
#12 ·
Actually, the PS3 is ahead of the Wii in revenue, despite the large gap between the two sytems:

1.91 million sales of the PS3 in the US x $599.99 = $1,145,980,900

4.46 million sales of the Wii in the US x $249.99 = $1,114,955,400


And I do remember the press releases for the PS3 where they focused on revenue rather than sales. I guess they must be using the same marketing team. lol
 
#15 ·
Laughable. Talkstr8t loses all credibility in my book when he then suggests "At least no information was left out here". BDA insider should be changed to BS insider.
 
#16 ·
this is just as stupid as HD DVD counting the PS3 for attach rate and not for player sales. It never did make sense to me that HD DVD could have a higher attach rate and higher sales for hardware but be outsold 2:1 in software, haha.


Thats what these folks all get paid for, they both deceive, and they both are good at it.
 
#18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steverhcp02 /forum/post/11495304


this is just as stupid as HD DVD counting the PS3 for attach rate and not for player sales. It never did make sense to me that HD DVD could have a higher attach rate and higher sales for hardware but be outsold 2:1 in software, haha.


Thats what these folks all get paid for, they both deceive, and they both are good at it.

Its called not being able to have it both ways. The BDA can't count PS3's in standalone sales only when it benefits them, and then magically leave that out of the equation when they are called on things like attach rate or the PS3 undercutting other BD players from other manufacturers. You can't count the PS3 in your marketing, then leave it out when criticizing Toshiba for subsidizing its players.


Its called not getting it both ways.
 
#19 ·
Not only are they using the $ amount to calculate a 63% market share in sales revenue which we now all understand was not unit sales. They also may have included the total revenue from LG HD DVD/ Blu-Ray units to make it look even better (we will never know). But again this behavour is typical of Sony, too bad that Disney is part of this team since it makes them look just as bad for supporting the BS coming out of the BDA camp.
 
#20 ·
Well you know what this means don't you? The software sales ratio is no longer 2 to 1 or 66/33.


Nope - I declare HD DVD is doing MUCH better - 60/40 - because Combo's are more expensive



WOW! Hope they don't sell too many Pioneer BD players. For every one they sell - that's 3 A2's! Thank God Denon is going to be late to the party!


So anyone figure out what the true deal was with the movie 300? I mean the HD DVD costs $5.00 more than the BD.
 
#21 ·
You make it sound as though the information was dragged out of him, kicking and screaming through cunning investigation and interrogation, rather than simply asking a question and having him answer it with a very concise and straight forward "Yes, 63% of total revenue spent on standalone high-def players."


He had a choice whether or not to answer it, and he did, quite clearly.
 
#22 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mullis /forum/post/11495432


Its called not being able to have it both ways. The BDA can't count PS3's in standalone sales only when it benefits them, and then magically leave that out of the equation when they are called on things like attach rate or the PS3 undercutting other BD players from other manufacturers. You can't count the PS3 in your marketing, then leave it out when criticizing Toshiba for subsidizing its players.


Its called not getting it both ways.

I agree 100%, but im not as rabid as you folks and not willing to admit that both camps are deceiving...HD DVD does the same with the attach rates and sales of players in regard to the PS3......all marketing is shady, its not th eBDA, thats teh difference between the fans and fanboys.....fans can step back and call it as it is, and thats BS from both sides, fanboys have their heads in the sand when its convenient.....like in regards to this marketing with HD DVD and BD.


This is a joke, the only relevence is for 3rd art manufacturers if this wer ein ratio to revenue, but if it isnt it doesnt matter to us or them and is only a "our number is bigger and the pie is more blu so its good" Its stupid and its meaningless and its not relevent.


The same for HD DVD attach rate crap.
 
#23 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mullis /forum/post/11495432


Its called not being able to have it both ways. The BDA can't count PS3's in standalone sales only when it benefits them, and then magically leave that out of the equation when they are called on things like attach rate or the PS3 undercutting other BD players from other manufacturers. You can't count the PS3 in your marketing, then leave it out when criticizing Toshiba for subsidizing its players.


Its called not getting it both ways.

the PS3 is the same price MSRP as the BDPs300, so that is not a valid argument at this point anymore.
 
#24 ·
Michael,

Quote:
Its called not being able to have it both ways. The BDA can't count PS3's in standalone sales only when it benefits them, and then magically leave that out of the equation when they are called on things like attach rate or the PS3 undercutting other BD players from other manufacturers. You can't count the PS3 in your marketing, then leave it out when criticizing Toshiba for subsidizing its players.


Its called not getting it both ways.

However, in all honesty, the HD DVD camp does the same thing, just in reverse.


I do find the double standard of the BD supporters odd though. Way back when the matrix and POTC came out, several of us pointed out that there was no difference between the two because they made the same amount of money. However, quite a few of the BD braintrust argued that was not valid and that the only thing that counts are unit sales.


Sad all the way around really.
 
#25 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by george king /forum/post/11495753


Michael,




However, in all honesty, the HD DVD camp does the same thing, just in reverse.


I do find the double standard of the BD supporters odd though. Way back when the matrix and POTC came out, several of us pointed out that there was no difference between the two because they made the same amount of money. However, quite a few of the BD braintrust argued that was not valid and that the only thing that counts are unit sales.


Sad all the way around really.

pretty much nailed. Some people get so vested in this thing that they truly believe theyre fighting the good fight. These companies are all equally evil (relative to the situation obviously) They dont care about us or honesty, theyre trying to make a butt load of money.
 
#26 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steverhcp02 /forum/post/11495709


I agree 100%, but im not as rabid as you folks and not willing to admit that both camps are deceiving...HD DVD does the same with the attach rates and sales of players in regard to the PS3......all marketing is shady, its not th eBDA, thats teh difference between the fans and fanboys.....fans can step back and call it as it is, and thats BS from both sides, fanboys have their heads in the sand when its convenient.....like in regards to this marketing with HD DVD and BD.


This is a joke, the only relevence is for 3rd art manufacturers if this wer ein ratio to revenue, but if it isnt it doesnt matter to us or them and is only a "our number is bigger and the pie is more blu so its good" Its stupid and its meaningless and its not relevent.

The same for HD DVD attach rate crap.
Really?


The HD DVD camp doesn't spin that number - the attach rate - because we count both the SAL and the AO. So we are counting all the HD DVD players. I mean only one reason to buy either right? To watch a movie in HD.


So we don't have the problem that the BDA does. That is why we don't have to do any spinning.


Of course we can now predict what is going to happen at CEDIA can't we? HD DVD will provide some hard facts on SAL and AO sales which will blow the 63% number into 2 million pieces - one for each PS3
 
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