DVD Forum Approves Triple Layer HD DVD Disc!

[Lee Stewart]

Credit To TrevorS (And To Mark Rubin For Posting It in the Rumor Thread)

EDIT:

But most of all - credit should be given to rdjam who started the "rumor" on the Rumor Thread and felt he couldn't, at the time, due to due dilligence, tell us about it. Kudo's to him for keeping his word to his sources. Of course once the "cat was out of the bag" he can participate. Thanks Rob!

http://www.screendigest.com/online_s...60907-ec3/show

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScreenDigest
DVD Forum approves 'bigger than Blu-ray' HD DVD
07 Sep 07
Country: China, USA
Source: Online Services/Intelligence/Video and DVD/Updates

The DVD Forum, the international DVD standards authority, has approved a 51 GB single-sided triple-layer HD DVD disc for production. Extension to the HD DVD standard, which was submitted by Toshiba in April, received approval on 31 August 2007. Other recent developments include:

A single-sided triple-layer HD DVD/DVD hybrid (combi) disc, the DVD layer of which would be playable by legacy DVD players, is expected to be approved before the year end.

The Forum has signed a Memorandum of Understanding with China's Optical Memory National Engineering Research Centre (OMNERC) regarding licensing of the HD DVD-ROM China (formerly HD DVD-ROM China-only) format, specification for which was approved earlier this year. The only difference between the latter and the standard HD DVD format is the modulation scheme: the optical pickup in HD DVD China player will be able to play standard HD DVD discs, although Chinese discs will not be playable in standard HD DVD drives. According to the Forum, the Chinese government is keen to introduce the format domestically before the Olympic Games in August 2008. Large-scale integrates (LSIs) are already under development by manufacturers and use of AACS for the format is currently under negotiation.


Our take...

The approval of Toshiba's 51 GB disc is good news for the HD DVD camp, allowing it to compete directly with rival Blu-ray Disc's (BD) dual-layer 50 GB disc. As with the BD50, it is likely to take some time for production yields to reach a commercially viable level. However, once this has been achieved it will arguably eliminate one of the principle reasons behind some studios' support of Blu-ray over HD DVD, thus potentially making it easier for Disney or Fox to adopt a format-agnostic position without losing face. Meanwhile, the development of a triple-layer single-sided hybrid HD DVD/DVD disc will also be welcomed by HD DVD supporters. Both Warner and Universal have been releasing double-sided hybrids in the US for some time but they have yet to use this approach in Europe.

Single-sided hybrids (sometimes called 'twin format' discs) offer the same space for promotional printing as traditional optical discs and do not require the consumer to think about which way to put them into the player. Anime title Freedom was released in the US as a single-sided hybrid in June but its capacity (15 GB HD DVD and 4.7 GB DVD) was not sufficient for a major studio release. The approval by the Forum of a triple-layer hybrid might arguably encourage some studios to release certain titles only on HD DVD/DVD hybrids, which could in turn lead to some DVD buyers building up a library of HD DVD titles by default, before making the decision to upgrade to a hi-def video player. So far there have been no indications that the BD camp plans to support hybrid discs.
_____________________________________________

TrevorS's response

Looks as though it's all over but the compatibility testing -- all fingers and toes crossed

[anotheraviator]

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

The approval of Toshiba's 51 GB disc is good news for the HD DVD camp, allowing it to compete directly with rival Blu-ray Disc's (BD) dual-layer 50 GB disc. As with the BD50, it is likely to take some time for production yields to reach a commercially viable level. However, once this has been achieved it will arguably eliminate one of the principle reasons behind some studios' support of Blu-ray over HD DVD, thus potentially making it easier for Disney or Fox to adopt a format-agnostic position without losing face. Meanwhile, the development of a triple-layer single-sided hybrid HD DVD/DVD disc will also be welcomed by HD DVD supporters. Both Warner and Universal have been releasing double-sided hybrids in the US for some time but they have yet to use this approach in Europe.

Yet another blow to the BD camp. Like I've said in other posts.. 1 by 1... the advantages BD touted that let them MAINTAIN a 2:1 sales ratio are going away quickly.

First PS3.. then studio support.. then player pricing... then number of titles... then nielson sales data... then amazon ranking... now this.

[degas]

Hmm, I don't get it.
Is this good news?

I thought 30 gb and DD+ was all that was ever needed?

[Lee Stewart]

This is HUGE! Finally! The TL Twin Format HD DVD is no longer a myth! And it will be ready before the end of the year!

Paramount - you lucky dogs you! You got to see a working prototype of this didn't you?

HD DVD's Trojan Horse is on it's way!

Whoopee!

[Robert D]

Originally Posted by degas

Hmm, I don't get it.
Is this good news?

I thought 30 gb and DD+ was all that was ever needed?

It's needed for PR and bragging rights.

[turansformer]

Wow, great news! While I'm an advocate of 30gb being plenty for HD content, this is definitely good news for the marketing department of Toshiba. I wonder what the BDA will resort to if this indeed goes into effect?

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by degas

Hmm, I don't get it.
Is this good news?

I thought 30 gb and DD+ was all that was ever needed?

A single-sided triple-layer HD DVD/DVD hybrid (combi) disc, the DVD layer of which would be playable by legacy DVD players, is expected to be approved before the year end.

NOW do you get it?

[anotheraviator]

Originally Posted by degas

Hmm, I don't get it.
Is this good news?

I thought 30 gb and DD+ was all that was ever needed?

Yeah but the propaganda over "storage space" is what prevented many uninformed consumers from picking HD-DVD.

Now all BD has is "bitrate"

EDIT: What am I saying... wouldn't bitrate be increased with the additional storage space? Ok. So BD has NOTHING but a more expensive hardware platform.

Good luck trying to explain that to J6P.

This was done just to say "now your argument of storage capacity is moot" -- whether it is actually utilized or not is a different question.

Oh.. and with the additional storage could allow TrueHD sound. Another BD loss.

"We have... more storage.. oops. no we don't... but we have lossless audio and you don't... oops... not anymore... but we have more titles... nope.. not anymore... but we have better pricing? no.. who are we kidding... we are outselling 2:1... oops... not anymore.. more like 1.2:1.... ok... fine... we have ------ PS3!!!!!"

muahahaha

[Lee Stewart]

PDF on the TL HD DVD - both versions - TL HD and TL Twin (just a big picture) - from Memory Tech - the developer of the TL HD DVD

http://www.hddvdprg.com/eng/press/to...hddvd_disc.pdf

[cdzie1]

Quick, we need to find a movie that requires 50.5 GB of space!!!

[degas]

How will this affect G1, G2 and G3 players?
Are they compatible with this?

[Neo1965]

Now that it's approved. It's time to wait for the firmware upgrades for the HD-A1, A2, A3 players. I expect that everyone can now agree to move beyond that 30GB is good enough stance now that the red format has a 51GB version. (presumably data rate is also increased so that video peak can be improved to 40Mbps or above?).

This is great, now we can wait for the TL HD DVD disk in time for LotR (maybe PotC3 ) and the blu-camp can now make innuendos about 51GB yields.

[turansformer]

Originally Posted by degas

How will this affect G1, G2 and G3 players?
Are they compatible with this?

I highly doubt the DVD Forum would approve the spec if they didn't think it would work with the current crop of players. It may take some time to work out the kinks, but thats typical of progressive technology such as this.

[dakota81]

Are the 200 HD DVD lines in existence capable of creating triple layer discs? Get back to me when TL51 hits retail.

[anotheraviator]

Originally Posted by degas

How will this affect G1, G2 and G3 players?
Are they compatible with this?

This will be the kicker. I hope (and I believe true) that Toshiba was smart enough to anticipate the TL and built the hardware capable to handle it.

If so, a quick firmware update (via the mandatory Ethernet connection) and you'd be good to go.

Whether this is true or not will remain to be seen.

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by dakota81

Are the 200 HD DVD lines in existence capable of creating triple layer discs? Get back to me when TL51 hits retail.

READ THE PDF - it shows manufacturing process

http://www.hddvdprg.com/eng/press/to...hddvd_disc.pdf

DATED 2005!

[sknight1]

Color me confused. Is the TL51 three 17Gb layers of HD goodness or is it a non-flipping COMBO disc?

Thanks!

[anotheraviator]

Originally Posted by sknight1

Color me confused. Is the TL51 three 17Gb layers of HD goodness or is it a non-flipping COMBO disc?

Thanks!

I believe it's both. Depending on what they determine is required for the release.

[CochiseGuy]

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

A single-sided triple-layer HD DVD/DVD hybrid (combi) disc, the DVD layer of which would be playable by legacy DVD players, is expected to be approved before the year end.

NOW do you get it?

Well, this is great news if for bragging rights alone.

But that TL "combi" / twin format disk - wouldn't it still be limited to DL DVD 9 & SL HD DVD 15 (17)GB? Or, SL DVD 5 and DL HD DVD 30 (34) GB?

I don't see how they would be able to stop releasing on DVD and just go with these combi discs - production, disc cost issues aside.

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by CochiseGuy

Well, this is great news if for bragging rights alone.

But that TL "combi" / twin format disk - wouldn't it still be limited to DL DVD 9 & SL HD DVD 15 (17)GB? Or, SL DVD 5 and DL HD DVD 30 (34) GB?

I don't see how they would be able to stop releasing on DVD and just go with these combi discs - production, disc cost issues aside.

The TL Twin Will be 34GB HD and 5GB SD. No it will not be for all movies - but they can lower the bit rate on the SD layer to squeeze more minutes in. It is after all SD.

Might help to drop the PQ of the SD to reinforce HD

BD has no counter measure to this. The BDA/Sony has already said they are dead set against including a DVD with a BD in the same package for popular movies - SD DVD will wind up on Ebay or given away to people who would have bought one.

[ultradk]

Great news.. However I like the HD DVD is doing today, but Disney might like this..

[Caurus]

Why wasn't that announced at CEDIA if it is news from August 31.? Very strange...

...but nice. Triple layer 51 GB HD DVD - Blu-ray's bane.

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by anotheraviator

I believe it's both. Depending on what they determine is required for the release.

Corrrect:

TL51 HD - (3) 17 GB HD layers

TL Twin - (2) 17 GB HD layers - (1) 5GB SD Layer

[grillbiller]

hay in this PDF...
http://www.hddvdprg.com/eng/press/to...hddvd_disc.pdf
Toshiba write:
Triple layer HD DVD Combo with a Dual Layer DVD
51Gb + 8.54gb

[pteittinen]

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

READ THE PDF - it shows manufacturing process

http://www.hddvdprg.com/eng/press/to...hddvd_disc.pdf

DATED 2005!

Perhaps you didn't read it? That PDF is for the earlier 45GB disc, which differs quite a lot from the now-proposed 51GB disc.The Twin Format disc is different too. That's why the PDF is dated 2005; it's for the previous TL disc which is now scrapped, apparently.

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by pteittinen

Perhaps you didn't read it? That PDF is for the earlier 45GB disc, which differs quite a lot from the now-proposed 51GB disc.The Twin Format disc is different too. That's why the PDF is dated 2005; it's for the previous TL disc which is now scrapped, apparently.

Just expanded. from 45 to 51 - added 2GB per layer. Engineering model is the same. So is the manufacturing process.

[grillbiller]

uh.. i was blinded by the good news... today.. dahn..

[Numanoid101]

Nothing about the 1.5x spin rate. Anyone have any info on this?

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by grillbiller

hay in this PDF...
http://www.hddvdprg.com/eng/press/to...hddvd_disc.pdf
Toshiba write:
Triple layer HD DVD Combo with a Dual Layer DVD
51Gb + 8.54gb

That is the Dual layer Dual sided - Combo - NOT TL Twin

[anotheraviator]

Originally Posted by Numanoid101

Nothing about the 1.5x spin rate. Anyone have any info on this?

I believe back in the day there was concern about G1 players being compatible with G2-G3 being for sure. Not sure if this has been confirmed or is still an issue. I guess we will find out soon.