HD VMD: $199 1080p HD player at Costco and Radio Shack

Ricko · 09-08-07, 11:49 PM

Quote:

At the Custom Electronic Design & Installation Association (CEDIA) trade show in Denver, a company promoting a new high-definition optical disc format demonstrated set-top players and high-definition movies that cost far less than ones that use the competing Blu-ray Disc or HD DVD formats. The only faux pas: Arriving late to a two-party format war that consumers are already reluctant to support.

Next month, New Medium Enterprises' 1080p set-top players, which use the HD VMD (Versatile Multilayer Disc) format, will go on sale on Amazon.com and in stores such as Radio Shack and Costco for around $150--about half the cost of the least-expensive 1080p HD DVD player, and perhaps a fourth the cost of the least-expensive Blu-ray player. The movies that work in them are similarly inexpensive.

"Expect a small premium over DVD [discs], and a big discount over Blu-ray and HD DVD," says Jim Cardwell, an advisor to the company and former president of Warner Home Video.

Red-Laser Technology
Instead of the blue-laser technology embraced by the Blu-ray and HD DVD camps, the HD VMD format uses the red-laser technology already used to create DVDs, and as a result, keeps the cost of manufacturing discs and drives low, says Eugene Levich, director and chief technology officer of New Medium Enterprises. He said that manufacturing a Blu-ray drive costs ten times as much as manufacturing a DVD or HD VMD drive, because the latter two are essentially the same drive but with different firmware.

HD VMD discs, which hold up to 30GB on a single side, are encoded with a maximum bit rate of 40 megabits per second; that's within spitting distance of Blu-ray's 48 mbps, and quite a bit more than 36 mbps for HD DVD. The format uses MPEG-2 and VC1 video formats to encode at 1080p resolution for the time being, and will possibly move to the H.264 format in the future.

Levich said the video quality is "at least as good" as that of the other formats. Using a projection system, HD VMD reps showed me clips of "We Were Soldiers" and "Apocalypto." The movies looked very good--not as stunning as I expected, but I'd just arrived from the CEDIA show floor, where every television vendor uses phenomenal, highly doctored content to show off their products.

The HD VMD format supports up to 7.1-channel Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, and DTS audio output, though it will not offer the high-bit-rate Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master Audio surround-sound codecs.

Multitalented, Inexpensive Players
The ML622S and the ML775S players each have a single HDMI 1.3 connection and can play HD VMDs, DVDs, CDs, and MP3 CDs, as well as a few other formats. The ML622S costs about $150; the ML775S will cost slightly more. The ML775S adds USB ports and a media-card reader for displaying photos and playing video content from devices such as thumb drives and external hard drives. Both players have Ethernet ports designed for downloading firmware updates, not the interactive features supported by HD DVD and Blu-ray. They come in black, red, gray, and white.

At launch, 20 U.S. movie titles will be available, including many from Mel Gibson's Icon Entertainment International. That's pretty sparse, and the list doesn't include that many hot titles. Of course, Blu-ray and HD DVD didn't start out with many more than that either, and New Medium Enterprises says that much more content from around the world, including many Bollywood titles, will be available.

Cardwell says that if the set-top players sell well, that will convince more major studios to sign on for HD VMD. But without content, buyers may be reticent to buy the set-top players. However, HD VMD players work with other, non-HD VMD content--and because they're inexpensive, buyers may be willing to take a chance.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,13...s/article.html

Maybe HD DVD and BD will both be loosers...

Megalith · 09-08-07, 11:57 PM

Quote:

The HD VMD format supports up to 7.1-channel Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, and DTS audio output, though it will not offer the high-bit-rate Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master Audio surround-sound codecs.

Failed.

Chew · 09-09-07, 12:00 AM

I still haven't heard too much about studio support. What are people going to play on these? Bollywood movies? Are those Indian movies?

Some of the HD DVD players should be available at that same price or very close with actual blockbuster movies to support the format.

The name of the format also sounds too much like a high def version of the failed UMD format.

Unless things change in a big way these are DOA.

pier0188 · 09-09-07, 12:32 AM

I love how it's at 40mbps and is within "spitting distance" of BD, at 8mpbs more, but is "quite a bit more" than HD DVD.

Lets think about this for a minute. 8/40 = 20% theoretical advantage that BD has, but a 11.1% theoretical disadvantage HD DVD has.

I guess 11% is not as close to spitting distance as 20%, obviously because your spit has to go from 0% to 20%, then all of the way back to 11%, making it a round trip of 31%, meaning that it goes much further.

Yeah, I hate marketing morons.

Ricko · 09-09-07, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pier0188

I love how it's at 40mbps and is within "spitting distance" of BD, at 8mpbs more, but is "quite a bit more" than HD DVD.

Lets think about this for a minute. 8/40 = 20% theoretical advantage that BD has, but a 11.1% theoretical disadvantage HD DVD has.

I guess 11% is not as close to spitting distance as 20%, obviously because your spit has to go from 0% to 20%, then all of the way back to 11%, making it a round trip of 31%, meaning that it goes much further.

Yeah, I hate marketing morons.

LOL!

Timothy Ramzyk · 09-09-07, 12:52 AM

Christ, the only good thing about this is if it lowers software prices for the other two, but that won't offset the damage it does by making all HDM seem like some endless farce if people are dumb enough to buy into it.

apodaca · 09-09-07, 12:57 AM

This will cause hysteria and mass confusion as people try to play movies in different platforms.

Ricko · 09-09-07, 01:05 AM

Quote:

HD VMD players work with other, non-HD VMD content--and because they're inexpensive, buyers may be willing to take a chance.

That's the "danger" of this player, and it could bild momentum if more studios sign up.

The last thing we need is another format...

Timothy Ramzyk · 09-09-07, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apodaca

This will cause hysteria and mass confusion as people try to play movies in different platforms.

Nah, most will just shut their purse and walk on by.

tsb · 09-09-07, 01:16 AM

Add mandatory TrueHD, DTS-MA and AVC and you have a format superior to HD DVD.

sivartk · 09-09-07, 01:23 AM

too little, too late...both this (re)post and the product.

tsb · 09-09-07, 01:27 AM

Why? With less than 1% penetration it's not too late. Let J6P have this format and enthusiasts have HD DVD/BD.

Sounds good to me.

sivartk · 09-09-07, 01:59 AM

wonder why none of our friends "down under" have mentioned this yet?

Seems they've had movies for a few months now.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6449280.html

cybereality · 09-09-07, 02:45 AM

This is madness, but I almost want one. If MSRP is $150, then they could street for less, right?

For like $100 I'd take a chance on this just as a collectors item.

anotheraviator · 09-09-07, 02:49 AM

Too little too late. Like the studios aren't upset enough with two formats. They aren't adding a third anytime soon.

Unless the players are $50 and the media costs them .50 to make.

rdjam · 09-09-07, 03:09 AM

BTW _ EDIT _ Does anyone notice that the thread title is wrong? The player is $200, not $150. Please report title...

Oh lawd! Radio Shack, what are you thinking? - it's already murder, but rolling in to the crash'em derby on roller skates does not say much for business acumen...

If that was a protest vote, save your money, Radio Shack.

tsk tsk...

Now if you started stocking Radio Shack HD DVD players - now THAT's smart!

tsb · 09-09-07, 04:02 AM

I'll buy one if it has content not available on HD DVD or BD.

Every HDM fan would.

nfinity · 09-09-07, 04:15 AM

Guys guys..you wanna bet Sony is behind this.. I'm almost 100% positive..

I'm telling you, this is an excellent strategy..come out with the format that will confuse consumers with HD DVD and HD VMD and Blu-Ray will remain like the best of all and MOST DEFINITELY buys them more time...

Not only that, but even if this is not the case, supporting this new format almost 200% guarantees that HDM will never live. This is an HDM killer. Who benefits from this? Of course Sony since they poored damn billions and if they lose they sure ain't gonna allow HD DVD to succeed..

What do you think? Viable? or am I just going completely insane LOL!

namechamps · 09-09-07, 04:17 AM

Why would media prices be so low.

An HD DVD disc can be produced (including silkscreening, packaging, and shipping) for less than $2 and retails for $25-$30.
If the studios wanted $20, $10, $5, or even $3 HD DVDs they could have done so a long time ago. It doesn't take another technology to bring prices down. Studios could price HD DVD at around $1 more than DVD and have similar profits. The studios WANT $30 HD media. Why? Because they want to rape the consumer for as long as possible before slowly bringing prices down to DVDs levels.

Why does the analyst think just because this technology is cheaper that the studios will sacrifice profit margins just so the consumers get a better deal? Even if this cost $0.00 more than DVD there is no reason to think that retail prices of disc would more than $1-$2 less than HD DVD. I don't see the studios backing a 3rd format just so that retail prices are $1 cheaper. How many consumers are saying 300 in 1080p for $29.95 no way but if it was $28.95 now that would be a great deal.

kamspy · 09-09-07, 04:21 AM

This may be what kills the mass adoption of HDM on disc

Having two formats was bad enough. Now a third?!?
If this is for real and is going to have a comparable amount of quality titles, this is bad.

Raydeen · 09-09-07, 04:31 AM

On their website it says they have Lord of the Rings, how can they do that ? http://www.nmeinc.com

Nox · 09-09-07, 04:38 AM

VDM entering the scene reminds me of when Perot entered the '94 Presidential race.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raydeen

On their website it says they have Lord of the Rings, how can they do that ? http://www.nmeinc.com

Could it be the animated version?

Buckeye911 · 09-09-07, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfinity

Guys guys..you wanna bet Sony is behind this.. I'm almost 100% positive..

I'm telling you, this is an excellent strategy..come out with the format that will confuse consumers with HD DVD and HD VMD and Blu-Ray will remain like the best of all and MOST DEFINITELY buys them more time...

Not only that, but even if this is not the case, supporting this new format almost 200% guarantees that HDM will never live. This is an HDM killer. Who benefits from this? Of course Sony since they poored damn billions and if they lose they sure ain't gonna allow HD DVD to succeed..

What do you think? Viable? or am I just going completely insane LOL!

My vote is for "going completely insane."

stefanpaulmayer · 09-09-07, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raydeen

On their website it says they have Lord of the Rings, how can they do that ? http://www.nmeinc.com

well, they don't say for which regions they have the rights of the titles mentioned. this format has AFAIK Eastern European origins. it can therefore very well be that in one of those Eastern European countries they actually have the rights to LOTR. but you can bet, you won't see LOTR on HD VME in Germany, England or France...

mikemorel · 09-09-07, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfinity

What do you think? Viable? or am I just going completely insane LOL!

Viable....Ummm, no. Which leaves the second option wide open.

BD pricing only looks worse by this. And HD DVD MSRP (Venturer) will be only $50 more during Christmas season, less than that with discounting. And VMDs pockets aren't very deep. No marketing budget, no endcaps, little advertising or Hollywood support, etc.

It may hurt some sales of HD DVD and BD from fence sitters, but cannot generate sales, or scale up without deep pockets.

thebland · 09-09-07, 07:15 AM

This format will have to win....it's the cheapest!!!

Deane Johnson · 09-09-07, 07:39 AM

The thing to watch is studio support.

Nothing has been mentioned about encryption security, or at least I didn't see it.

mswoods1 · 09-09-07, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebland

This format will have to win....it's the cheapest!!!

Hey, are you on coolrunning.com?

thebland · 09-09-07, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mswoods1

Hey, are you on coolrunning.com?

No... Should I be? What is it about?

Thanks,

Jeff

tsb · 09-09-07, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfinity

Guys guys..you wanna bet Sony is behind this.. I'm almost 100% positive..

I'm telling you, this is an excellent strategy..come out with the format that will confuse consumers with HD DVD and HD VMD and Blu-Ray will remain like the best of all and MOST DEFINITELY buys them more time...

Not only that, but even if this is not the case, supporting this new format almost 200% guarantees that HDM will never live. This is an HDM killer. Who benefits from this? Of course Sony since they poored damn billions and if they lose they sure ain't gonna allow HD DVD to succeed..

What do you think? Viable? or am I just going completely insane LOL!

Man, you really are paranoid.

09-09-07, 12:00 AM	#3 \| Link
Chew Mugsy Yiss Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: St. John's, NL Posts: 77	I still haven't heard too much about studio support. What are people going to play on these? Bollywood movies? Are those Indian movies? Some of the HD DVD players should be available at that same price or very close with actual blockbuster movies to support the format. The name of the format also sounds too much like a high def version of the failed UMD format. Unless things change in a big way these are DOA. __________________ HD DVD = 69 Blu-Ray = 14 HD VMD = Only in the bizarro world Latest Discs Layer Cake Blu-Ray & Mr. Bean's Holiday HD DVD

09-09-07, 01:16 AM	#10 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
tsb AVS Special Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,882	Add mandatory TrueHD, DTS-MA and AVC and you have a format superior to HD DVD. __________________ 1461 Days of Night A Dark Night Indeed. Ted Kennedy Receives Presidential Medal of Freedom.

09-09-07, 01:23 AM	#11 \| Link
sivartk Not a Twitter Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Round Rock, TX Posts: 4,787	too little, too late...both this (re)post and the product. __________________ At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. My Little Theater

09-09-07, 01:27 AM	#12 \| Link
tsb AVS Special Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,882	Why? With less than 1% penetration it's not too late. Let J6P have this format and enthusiasts have HD DVD/BD. Sounds good to me. __________________ 1461 Days of Night A Dark Night Indeed. Ted Kennedy Receives Presidential Medal of Freedom.

09-09-07, 01:59 AM	#13 \| Link
sivartk Not a Twitter Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Round Rock, TX Posts: 4,787	wonder why none of our friends "down under" have mentioned this yet? Seems they've had movies for a few months now. http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6449280.html __________________ At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. My Little Theater

09-09-07, 12:32 AM	#4 \| Link
pier0188 Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 153	I love how it's at 40mbps and is within "spitting distance" of BD, at 8mpbs more, but is "quite a bit more" than HD DVD. Lets think about this for a minute. 8/40 = 20% theoretical advantage that BD has, but a 11.1% theoretical disadvantage HD DVD has. I guess 11% is not as close to spitting distance as 20%, obviously because your spit has to go from 0% to 20%, then all of the way back to 11%, making it a round trip of 31%, meaning that it goes much further. Yeah, I hate marketing morons.

09-09-07, 12:52 AM	#6 \| Link
Timothy Ramzyk AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: milwaukee Posts: 3,279	Christ, the only good thing about this is if it lowers software prices for the other two, but that won't offset the damage it does by making all HDM seem like some endless farce if people are dumb enough to buy into it.

09-09-07, 12:57 AM	#7 \| Link
apodaca AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,115	This will cause hysteria and mass confusion as people try to play movies in different platforms.

09-09-07, 02:45 AM	#14 \| Link
cybereality Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 843	This is madness, but I almost want one. If MSRP is $150, then they could street for less, right? For like $100 I'd take a chance on this just as a collectors item. __________________ Learn how to game in TRUE 3D!

09-09-07, 02:49 AM	#15 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
anotheraviator AVS Special Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,517	Too little too late. Like the studios aren't upset enough with two formats. They aren't adding a third anytime soon. Unless the players are $50 and the media costs them .50 to make.

09-09-07, 03:09 AM	#16 \| Link
rdjam Hungry for 3D Bluray AVS GOLD CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 8,661	BTW _ EDIT _ Does anyone notice that the thread title is wrong? The player is $200, not $150. Please report title... Oh lawd! Radio Shack, what are you thinking? - it's already murder, but rolling in to the crash'em derby on roller skates does not say much for business acumen... If that was a protest vote, save your money, Radio Shack. tsk tsk... Now if you started stocking Radio Shack HD DVD players - now THAT's smart! __________________ JL Fathom f113 = Love! Last edited by rdjam; 09-14-07 at 07:16 PM..

09-09-07, 04:02 AM	#17 \| Link
tsb AVS Special Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,882	I'll buy one if it has content not available on HD DVD or BD. Every HDM fan would. __________________ 1461 Days of Night A Dark Night Indeed. Ted Kennedy Receives Presidential Medal of Freedom.

09-09-07, 04:15 AM	#18 \| Link
nfinity American Psycho Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 721	Guys guys..you wanna bet Sony is behind this.. I'm almost 100% positive.. I'm telling you, this is an excellent strategy..come out with the format that will confuse consumers with HD DVD and HD VMD and Blu-Ray will remain like the best of all and MOST DEFINITELY buys them more time... Not only that, but even if this is not the case, supporting this new format almost 200% guarantees that HDM will never live. This is an HDM killer. Who benefits from this? Of course Sony since they poored damn billions and if they lose they sure ain't gonna allow HD DVD to succeed.. What do you think? Viable? or am I just going completely insane LOL!

09-09-07, 04:17 AM	#19 \| Link
namechamps AVS Special Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,426	Why would media prices be so low. An HD DVD disc can be produced (including silkscreening, packaging, and shipping) for less than $2 and retails for $25-$30. If the studios wanted $20, $10, $5, or even $3 HD DVDs they could have done so a long time ago. It doesn't take another technology to bring prices down. Studios could price HD DVD at around $1 more than DVD and have similar profits. The studios WANT $30 HD media. Why? Because they want to rape the consumer for as long as possible before slowly bringing prices down to DVDs levels. Why does the analyst think just because this technology is cheaper that the studios will sacrifice profit margins just so the consumers get a better deal? Even if this cost $0.00 more than DVD there is no reason to think that retail prices of disc would more than $1-$2 less than HD DVD. I don't see the studios backing a 3rd format just so that retail prices are $1 cheaper. How many consumers are saying 300 in 1080p for $29.95 no way but if it was $28.95 now that would be a great deal.

09-09-07, 04:21 AM	#20 \| Link
kamspy Liquid Swords Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cincy,OH Posts: 1,038	This may be what kills the mass adoption of HDM on disc Having two formats was bad enough. Now a third?!? If this is for real and is going to have a comparable amount of quality titles, this is bad.

09-09-07, 04:31 AM	#21 \| Link
Raydeen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 55	On their website it says they have Lord of the Rings, how can they do that ? http://www.nmeinc.com

09-09-07, 07:15 AM	#26 \| Link
thebland Nostradamus of HT AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Detroit, Michigan USA Posts: 20,115 Classified Rating: 100% (3)	This format will have to win....it's the cheapest!!! __________________ Jeff

09-09-07, 07:39 AM	#27 \| Link
Deane Johnson Advanced Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Omaha, NE USA Posts: 976	The thing to watch is studio support. Nothing has been mentioned about encryption security, or at least I didn't see it.