Pioneer & Sharp partnership - Will Pioneer enter LCD market???

[EvilManatee]

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but Sharp just invested $357 million in Pioneer.

According to the Forbes article:

Sharp portrayed the deal as an attempt to fend off intense global competition and a way to allow it to sell more liquid crystal display (LCD), the flashy environmentally friendly flat screens in use in latest television models, through Pioneer, while Pioneer gets much-needed cash to help it revamp its business, as well as a chance to enter the LCD television market by selling TVs with Sharp LCD panels.

I thought Pioneer was doing well with their plasma only business model (especially with the new Kuro panels). What do you guys make of this?

Read the complete article here: http://www.forbes.com/markets/2007/0...1markets1.html

[D-Nice]

30" or less LCDs for Pioneer. Nothing more.

[andy sullivan]

I don't know D-Nice. After reading the review for the 5080 in the plasma section I would have to wonder what Pioneer might have in store for the 50"+ LCD market. With Sony pricing down to the Wal-Mart arena that leaves wide open the up scale higher priced but still affordable big screen LCD flat panel market. Look for it in 2009.

[D-Nice]

Pioneer has no interest in the 50" + LCD market. They are just like Panasonic....."Plasma has a superior picture comapred to LCD".

The main reason for the venture is OLED.

[greenland]

In the USA, when one corporation purchases a sizable share in another corporation, it is usually viewed as the beginning step in the complete take over of the other corporation. How does it work in Japan? Is there any chance that Sharp will eventually make a bid to take over Pioneer completely?

[____]

Originally Posted by D-Nice

The main reason for the venture is OLED.

Not according to Sharp and Pioneer.

This announcement basically included three items: (1) the promotion of joint development, (2) the expansion of mutual business and (3) the capital alliance.

Regarding the promotion of joint development, the companies did not refer to any specific development target, although citing areas of target items such as next-generation DVD, networks, car electronics and video equipment.

As for OLED, on which the two companies are advancing research and development, the presidents commented that, "We consider OLED will be included in our joint development themes."

"...we haven't even determined what items we will jointly develop yet at the present state."

[vtms]

Originally Posted by D-Nice

Pioneer has no interest in the 50" + LCD market. They are just like Panasonic....."Plasma has a superior picture comapred to LCD".

It's quite clear LCDs are in Pioneer's future (whereas Sharp is not interested in plasma). Once they offer these <30" LCDs in the first year, it will be less shocking when they completely switch to LCDs in few years. Panasonic has already been preparing ground for the inevitable too by offering LCDs of increasing size.

The main reason for the venture is OLED.

Not really. Besides, Sharp's president recently commented that their thin LCD prototype would not be inferior to OLED. The whole point of this prototype demonstration was to show OLED developers that Sharp is already working on something at least equivalent to OLED. Neither Sharp nor consequently Pioneer will be working seriously on OLED anytime soon. OLED is just a dream, just like SED. LCD is the reality, whether we like it or not.

[andy sullivan]

Just like Panasonic? Panasonic offers 3 different size LCD displays and their performance is very highly regarded. According to the review in question, Pioneer has increased black level over the competition X 2. If they could do that with LCD they would rule the market.

[D-Nice]

Originally Posted by ____

Not according to Sharp and Pioneer.

This announcement basically included three items: (1) the promotion of joint development, (2) the expansion of mutual business and (3) the capital alliance.

Regarding the promotion of joint development, the companies did not refer to any specific development target, although citing areas of target items such as next-generation DVD, networks, car electronics and video equipment.

As for OLED, on which the two companies are advancing research and development, the presidents commented that, "We consider OLED will be included in our joint development themes."

"...we haven't even determined what items we will jointly develop yet at the present state."

You can stop posting official "marketing" news. I'm speaking of internal information....you know the stuff you (and no one else at Samsung has).

[Totalimmortal]

Originally Posted by D-Nice

Pioneer has no interest in the 50" + LCD market. They are just like Panasonic....."Plasma has a superior picture comapred to LCD".

The main reason for the venture is OLED.

QFT!

At the end of the day, the numbers add up to Plasma being a better picture.

[D-Nice]

Originally Posted by vtms

It's quite clear LCDs are in Pioneer's future (whereas Sharp is not interested in plasma). Once they offer these <30" LCDs in the first year, it will be less shocking when they completely switch to LCDs in few years. Panasonic has already been preparing ground for the inevitable too by offering LCDs of increasing size.

There is no need for 30-42 inch LCDs from Pioneer based on what's coming down the pipe. The could OEM the LCDs in that range just for kicks, but I haven't heard of thse interests thru my contact.

Not really. Besides, Sharp's president recently commented that their thin LCD prototype would not be inferior to OLED. The whole point of this prototype demonstration was to show OLED developers that Sharp is already working on something at least equivalent to OLED. Neither Sharp nor consequently Pioneer will be working seriously on OLED anytime soon. OLED is just a dream, just like SED. LCD is the reality, whether we like it or not.

The OLED dream is much more capable of becoming reality compared to SED. Isn't Sony still on track for their 11" OLED this Autumn in Japan? Sharp wants access to the patents Pioneer holds regarding OLED tech.

[____]

Originally Posted by vtms

Once they offer these <30" LCDs in the first year, it will be less shocking when they completely switch to LCDs in few years.

Besides, Sharp's president recently commented that their thin LCD prototype would not be inferior to OLED. The whole point of this prototype demonstration was to show OLED developers that Sharp is already working on something at least equivalent to OLED. Neither Sharp nor consequently Pioneer will be working seriously on OLED anytime soon. OLED is just a dream, just like SED. LCD is the reality, whether we like it or not.

There's a reason why Pioneer cancelled building the second plasma factory - it would have been a financial disaster. With brightside level BLU designs becoming more affordable every month, any other currently unveiled display tech has little possibily to keep up with LCD PQ & price.

I'm not ready to rule out OLED and FED displays just yet. There might be some technology breakthroughs, which would allow low cost manufacturing. I did some research on FEDs and found out that HDR FEDs are possible. HDR OLED should also be possible as the technology advances.

"Global competition is fierce and technical advancement is fast," Sharp's President Mikio Katayama said at the beginning of the press conference. "We can't foresee six or even three months ahead under the current circumstances."

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english...070921/139535/

[____]

Originally Posted by D-Nice

The OLED dream is much more capable of becoming reality compared to SED. Isn't Sony still on track for their 11" OLED this Autumn in Japan? Sharp wants access to the patents Pioneer holds regarding OLED tech.

I can buy small FED displays from FUTABA and FET. You won't see commercial 40-50" OLED displays anytime soon. Pioneer is the wrong partner, if you would want to access OLED patents...

[D-Nice]

Originally Posted by ____

You won't see commercial 40-50" OLED displays anytime soon.

1-2 years...no. 5+ years....yes

Pioneer is the wrong partner, if you would want to access OLED patents...

Says who? You? You still don't get it. You're credibility regarding anything is SHOT. Just flatline already.

[____]

Originally Posted by D-Nice

1-2 years...no. 5+ years....yes
Says who? You? You still don't get it. You're credibility regarding anything is SHOT. Just flatline already.

Didn't I say that 8G has 0.008ft/l black level and ~5000:1 on/off (window) like 9 months ago. Well Mr. 0.003ft/l:

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/flatpan...ro/index4.html

Pioneer doesn't hold key patents to OLED tech. As for 81... it kills any other consumer display in contrast measurements.

[D-Nice]

Originally Posted by ____

Didn't I say that 8G has 0.008ft/l black level and ~5000:1 on/off (window) like 9 months ago. Well Mr. 0.003ft/l:

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/flatpan...ro/index4.html

Pioneer doesn't hold key patents to OLED tech.

Good one. Yet again you failed to point out they got 3 readings from their 5080.... 0.006, 0.008, 0.009. They also state that they DID NOT use the RGB bias controls that affect the minimum luminance readings.

Being you have no calibration experience (just BS experience), you failed to look at the blue reading from 0-30IRE. It is no where near D65 and looks the same as the pre-calibration chart. Every review I've seen (including umr) shows the same numbers for minimum luminance levels prior to calibrating with ALL RGB controls on the 5080. Why don't you post numbers for after calibration that include RGB bias usage.

And I said 3000:1 ANSI contrast ratio NOT 5000:1 on/off. Stop pulling numbers out of your ass.

[johnnybrulez]

Originally Posted by ____

Didn't I say that 8G has 0.008ft/l black level and ~5000:1 on/off (window) like 9 months ago. Well Mr. 0.003ft/l:

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/flatpan...ro/index4.html

Pioneer doesn't hold key patents to OLED tech. As for 81... it kills any other consumer display in contrast measurements.

Now if only the 81 can kill its own 'unsuperior' 71 and 65 LCDz in overall picture quality... then I'll be impressed. The 81 cheats too much to get those type of numbers, but local dimming has a bright (or dark) future most defintely. Make use of 0ftl black level and then you got something special. Measurements are only a part of the story.

D-nice have you seen dramatic black level improvements when you do adjust 30IRE and below correctly?

[D-Nice]

Originally Posted by johnnybrulez

D-nice have you seen dramatic black level improvements when you do adjust 30IRE and below correctly?

Yep. A couple hundred Kelvin makes a world of difference in the 0.00x range.

[johnnybrulez]

Originally Posted by D-Nice

Yep. A couple hundred Kelvin makes a world of difference in the 0.00x range.

Rock.

[VFR]

Originally Posted by D-Nice

There is no need for 30-42 inch LCDs from Pioneer based on what's coming down the pipe. The could OEM the LCDs in that range just for kicks, but I haven't heard of thse interests thru my contact.

The OLED dream is much more capable of becoming reality compared to SED. Isn't Sony still on track for their 11" OLED this Autumn in Japan? Sharp wants access to the patents Pioneer holds regarding OLED tech.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...jiNACBzhTP1F0A
For Pioneer, the tie-up with Sharp "will create an opportunity for us to add liquid crystal display (LCD) TVs to our product lineups," said Pioneer president Tamihiko Sudo.

While Pioneer's focus remains on PDP, "the reality is that LCD has its strength in the market and every successful company has both LCD and PDP in their business portfolio," he said.

[VFR]

And this seems to guarantee we will see 42" Pioneer LCD panels.

http://displaydaily.com/2007/09/27/p...how-to-use-it/

[____]

Originally Posted by VFR

And this seems to guarantee we will see 42" Pioneer LCD panels.

http://displaydaily.com/2007/09/27/p...how-to-use-it/

Yep. Pretty much a confirmation. Someone needs to find a better inside source.

"
Pioneer President Tamihiko Sudo now publicly agrees. "In flat-panel-TV operations, it will be difficult for Pioneer to bring the segment back into the black with just plasmas, so it is better if we have 42-inch LCD-TVs in our line-up

Sudo went on to say, "We hope to build up our brand perception with 50- and 60-inch plasmas, while also selling LCDs that are regarded as highly as Pioneer’s [plasma] TVs. We would like Sharp to supply us with LCD panels with special specifications since our strategy is to sell high-value-added products.
"

They might use mega contrast led tech in those panels. The sooner the better, because window of opportunity is shrinking.

[D-Nice]

Originally Posted by ____

Yep. Pretty much a confirmation. Someone needs to find a better inside source.

Yeah, right. Let's see how long it takes this to reach the store shelves......if ever.

[TNG]

Has it occured to anyone that even though plasma shipments are up, profits are down in the face of ever increasing sales of LCD and they just want to hedge their bets for the future? Seems that having Sharp buy a share of the company is just good business.

[tombaker]

Originally Posted by TNG

Has it occured to anyone that even though plasma shipments are up, profits are down in the face of ever increasing sales of LCD and they just want to hedge their bets for the future? Seems that having Sharp buy a share of the company is just good business.

Plasmas are going to a Niche market.....Much like the Macintosh to the PC. If Pioneer can maintain itself to told the high ground on Plasma, they can survive long enough to be the Apple of the Plasma world.

Its not an either-or notion for Plasma.

[greenland]

Mr. Tom Haga Chairman/CEO Pioneer Electronics USA discusses Sharp Investment in Pioneer.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6485638.html


By Steve Smith -- TWICE, 9/29/2007 6:22:00 AM

Long Beach, Calif. — Sharp’s investment in Pioneer is about new technology and engineering development and is not shared infrastructure or corporate operations, according to Tom Haga, chairman/CEO of Pioneer Electronics U.S.A.

In his first comments


Tom Haga, chairman/CEO of Pioneer Electronics U.S.A.
Haga said Pioneer and Sharp have "a long history together" with Pioneer buying parts and components from its new investor. "It is difficult today to have one company develop technology ... and do everything. In thinking for the future [Pioneer] knew this."

And Haga observed, "Plasma and LCD are today’s [flat-screen] technologies, but there will be others in the future." He added that Pioneer, or any one CE manufacturer, "can’t come up with everything on its own ... to successfully support our dealers."

While there was much talk in the original announcement about cooperation between the two companies in a variety of product categories, Haga noted, "Since we have shook hands [on the agreement] we do have a chance to sell [small-screen] LCDs, but we do not have a clear product program yet. It will take three or four months to set it up" and could include flat-panel TV, DVD, Blu-ray and other categories.

When asked about

The marketing philosophy of Pioneer, and Kuro for that matter, is that "we try not to just sell TVs. We sell a package, a brand, and it takes a long time to create a premium brand. Our strategy with our technology is to sell an experience — to sell home theater, audio and video systems, and provide quality products for our [retail] customers and consumers."

Haga said that Pioneer’s U.S. operations are doing well and that for the upcoming fourth quarter, "We see a strong Christmas season and plan no changes. Kuro started shipping Sept. 1 and we have heard good things from our dealers. We expect a good season." And when specifically asked about
14.28 percent investment by Sharp in Pioneer, Haga told TWICE, "This is strictly engineering cooperation ... and new technology development," adding that there are no plans to share facilities, distribution or other areas with Sharp.Kuro program and ad campaign and how it will be affected by the Sharp investment, Haga said, "Kuro takes us into the premium [market] space, so there will be no change in our strategy."Black Friday, Haga reminded, "We are a premium brand, which is why we created Kuro. We don’t chase price. We want to live in the premium part of the market."

[VFR]

Pioneers management seems to be reading from several playbooks or at least spinning in different directions.

http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20071001PD215.html