HDTV is 1024x768???? What gives

[mikecazzx]

I am confused as to why the LCD's all seem to be 1366x738 and the plasmas seems to start at 1024x768????

I want to connect it directly to my pc digitally if possible and at nothing less than 1280x720p.

What am I missing here?

[creemail]

I would recommend that you wait for the 42" Panasonic plasma to display a 1920x1080p set. It will be a great fit for PC use. Although if you are going to use it as a PC and you prefer LCD, go with a Samsung 1080p model.

Chris

[ChuckZ]

Originally Posted by mikecazzx

I am confused as to why the LCD's all seem to be 1366x738 and the plasmas seems to start at 1024x768????

I want to connect it directly to my pc digitally if possible and at nothing less than 1280x720p.

What am I missing here?

It's my understanding (though I haven't actually tested or seen these types of PDPs) that they use 16:9 pixels.

These PDPs can typically receive 720p and 1080i inputs, but they will downscale them and interpolate the image. You'll get an HD looking image, but not one using square pixels (as broadcasted).

I can't verify any of this or find much information on it, but that's my conclusion.

Mathematically how did I reach this?

Pixel Aspect Ratio (PAR) x Storage Aspect Ratio (SAR) (of the panel) = Display Aspect Ratio (DAR)

1.78 / 1 x 1024 / 768 = 1365.33 / 768 (voila!). However don't be confused as to think you actually have 1365x768 pixels' worth of resolution because you don't.

Wonder how widescreen DVDs work when the stored resolution is 720x480 (1.5:1)? Rectangular pixels!

[mikecazzx]

Ok - I guess the big question is - does 1024x768 on a plasma being fed 720p look as good or better than a 1366x768 LCD being fed the same signal - is the plasma somehow able to compensate for a lower overall resolution.

I guess it may not matter since I leaning towards the 50" Panasonic Professional displays (no speaker, tuner) which run at 1366x768.

I also read they do 1:1 pixel mapping which I "think" I have heard uses no scaling - rendering a better picture.

Then again 1366x786 output to match the native rez of the panel...hmmm how does that help me if broadcasts are 720p and 1080i on OTA sources?

Its a wonde the average consumer has finally started getting into HD - becasue this stuff is not easy.

[John Mason]

AIUI, it's needing to display HD format resolutions (1920X1080i/p, 1280X720) on displays with computer format resolutions. SD at 480i/p requires scaling, as does the HD. As most HD is 1080i, so-called 1080p displays need the least HD scaling, although fixed-pixel displays still require 1080i conversion to 1080p. 1080p displays capable of full resolution will resolve any effective resolution boosts in future progrmming. For some comparisons of various models see this upcoming article as well as earlier comparisons ( three sublinks in chronological order). -- John

[Detox]

[quote=mikecazzx;11730525]
I guess it may not matter since I leaning towards the 50" Panasonic Professional displays (no speaker, tuner) which run at 1366x768.

I also read they do 1:1 pixel mapping which I "think" I have heard uses no scaling - rendering a better picture.

QUOTE]

I ran into this problem during my research and it's precisely the reason I decided I would not buy a 42" set, but a 50" instead.

I am still looking for a few answers (finding people who hook PCs up to their plasmas has been scarce). But those who have responded say that it's decent on a 50" due to 1:1 pixel mapping on the 768P sets.

Why is this so important to me?

Well it's pretty much going to help me decide whether I want the Pioneer 5080HD set (amazing PQ, but 768P res) or something like the Samsung 5084 (still decent PQ, but 1080P res).

Cheers,

Detox

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by mikecazzx

Ok - I guess the big question is - does 1024x768 on a plasma being fed 720p look as good or better than a 1366x768 LCD being fed the same signal - is the plasma somehow able to compensate for a lower overall resolution.

It depends on the LCD and Plasma being compared, but the plasma will likely look better given that it will usually have better blacks and better CR. Resolution, it turns out, is not necessarily the primary concern for getting the best picture. In some cases, even the old 852x480 ED sets would render a better picture than the 1366x768 LCDs of the time.

That being said, if you wish to use a PC with the display, I would just go with a 1080p model. You want to run the display at native res when using a PC (ideally) and if you do it with a 1024x768 42" display, you'll get a stretched image. Note that only Panasonic sells 42" 1080p plasmas currently. However, unfortunately, there is no Panasonic commercial 42" display, which means you'd be limited to one of the two consumer models - the PZ77 or PZ700. This is ok though, since these will accept 1080p/60 via their two HDMI ports. The PZ700 also has a VGA port, but I would skip that model since the VGA port (for reasons that completely escape me ) is limited to a maximum 1366x768 resolution.

Now if you went with a 50" display, you'd open yourself to the commercial 50" Panasonic PF10UK which, among other things, allows you to install 4 HDMI ports (on two boards) all of which are 1080p/60 and 1080p/24 capable. In addition you could opt for the DVI board which will allow many many resolutions including most computer resolutions and also 1080p. Finally, the VGA port on these models, unlike the consumer models I mention above, *does* accept 1080p. IMHO, its the ideal gaming and HTPC display. Unfortunately, like I say above, no 42" until next generation.

[Detox]

Great now I have yet another panel to look at (re Panny PF10UK).

Why haven't I heard much about this panel on this board?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Detox

Great now I have yet another panel to look at (re Panny PF10UK).

Why haven't I heard much about this panel on this board?

They are brand new and won't be shipping for another few weeks. I don't think Panasonic has even done a press release yet. All the info that is known comes strictly from the manual that was posted last week on AVSforum. They are essentially the same as last years PF9UK with new glass and of course the important addition of the 1080p HDMI board.

[Detox]

Hmmmmm this could be just the solution I am looking for.

1) I plan to have an external tuner anyway (doesn't everyone have to have HD?)

2) The set will be hooked up to an audio system (no speakers required)

After doing some reading on the 9UK version it go raved reviews. In fact the intended purpose is for professional video/pc use!

Is the PQ of the professional series typically above that of the consumer series? For example should these sets out peform Pannys 50PZ700/750 line?

Cheers,

Detox

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Detox

Is the PQ of the professional series typically above that of the consumer series? For example should these sets out peform Pannys 50PZ700/750 line?

The PQ will basically be the same as consumer models. They use the same glass. The video processing is completely different however. The commercial displays typically have more adjustments, however, which could theoretically lead to a better picture. Now that said, I know the 750 line also has some additional adjustments that may be on par with the commercial display's.

[chrisherbert]

If you're intent on 1:1 PC input, I'd go with a plasma that has square pixels (1366x768 or 1920x1080). Most 1024x768 plasmas will do 1:1, but it'll be horizontally streched.

[discopaul]

Unless it's a 1080p 50" plasma, someone posted pixel densities that showed
42" plasmas have a higher density than 50" sets.
Just adding my 2 cents.

[pslohmann]

I just purchased a 42ph10uk (panasonic 42" commercial) and am driving it via VGA with a htpc. I ran into this exact same problem/question. The plasma has rectangular pixels, so to feed it native resolution (1024x768) means everything will be stretched. What I am doing now is feeding it 1366x768 (my nvidia card lets me do this without any special settings), and letting the TV scale it. So far this seems to give a great picture quality, although I'm not really sure what is possible because I don't have any HD content, just DVDs.

I wish there was a better way to handle this. I even posted a question over at Ars about it: VGA Driving Plasma: A Few Questions

If anyone here has a better idea or fix for this, let me know!

[chrisherbert]

Originally Posted by pslohmann

I just purchased a 42ph10uk (panasonic 42" commercial) and am driving it via VGA with a htpc. I ran into this exact same problem/question. The plasma has rectangular pixels, so to feed it native resolution (1024x768) means everything will be stretched. What I am doing now is feeding it 1366x768 (my nvidia card lets me do this without any special settings), and letting the TV scale it. So far this seems to give a great picture quality, although I'm not really sure what is possible because I don't have any HD content, just DVDs.

I wish there was a better way to handle this. I even posted a question over at Ars about it: VGA Driving Plasma: A Few Questions

If anyone here has a better idea or fix for this, let me know!

Sending the plasma 1360x768 is probably the best solution. You can get 1:1 mapping if you use 1024x768, but that's of little use when the picture is stretched.

You could have your video player correct the aspect ratio, but then everything else would still be stretched.

[pslohmann]

chris - yeah, that's pretty much what I have concluded. The guys over at Ars gave me some instructions for using FFDshow to output correct-looking video even if the res is 1024x768, but then all the menus and everything else in media center, and anything else I use my PC for, would look stretched -- ugh. Sigh. Ah well, the TV seems to do a good job of scaling anyway.

[Artwood]

Does anyone still make ED Plasma? It would be a great choice for SD viewing only!

[chrisherbert]

Originally Posted by Artwood

Does anyone still make ED Plasma? It would be a great choice for SD viewing only!

There was a big sale I saw on one of the "deals" websites recently for a new ED plasma, but I don't think the brand was even listed. Too bad, because the price was very good and I have friends whose viewing habits are perfect for an ED plasma. It's a shame that you can't find any reasonably priced used plasmas (or LCDs, for that matter) on sites like Craigslist. The CRT HDTVs go for peanuts while people ask $1000+ for five year old ED plasmas. Crazy.

[ChuckZ]

Fujitsu still sells ED plasmas (42" I believe). They are a whopping $1999 though.