Plasma or LCD???

drcarr · 09-26-07, 09:50 PM

I'm trying to decide what to buy from the big C for my viewing conditions. this is my first flat panel tv and i'm trying to decide what 50" to buy... LCD or Plasma and what brand for my conditions.

you guys know way more about this than me so i'm relying on your expertise!

in my price range...

Plasmas at big C to choose from:
HP 50" PL5072N
Vizio 50"
Panasonic TH-50PC77U

LCD's:
Vizio 52" LCD

the tv is going to go in my living room with a decent amount of ambient light. it will be viewed mostly with HD and SD tv from about 10 ft. to 20 ft. away thru verizion fios.

your recommendations out of the list above are greatly appreciated!!!

david(dallas) · 09-26-07, 10:51 PM

From that list, the Panny Plasma is best IMHO.
Vizio's pictures always look a bit fuzzy to me.
And Panasonic and Pioneer are the best of the Plasma's.

Wyatt Dog · 09-27-07, 01:49 AM

LCD is a better choice if there is a lot of light in the room. Just compare the reflections off the screens of the LCDs and plasmas. Additionally, the Vizio is 1080 while the two plasmas you listed are not. At this screen size it may or may not make that much difference to you, but viewing distance can also be a factor.

On the other hand, the Vizio is the only LCD on your list and with this unit you will lack the CR and black levels offered by the plasmas or some of the other LCDs out there. CR/black levels is a very important component of PQ.

The Panny mitigates the glare factor somewhat with it's anti-glare screen.
I would pick the Panny over the HP or Vizio plasmas, so if it was me my list would now be down to 2 sets: The Panny plasma or the Vizio LCD.

Here are the CNET reviews for each to help you in your research:

Panny: http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...l?tag=pdtl-img

Vizio: http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...l?tag=pdtl-img

If you go by the reviews, the Panny wins with an 8.0 rating to Vizio's 6.6.

I have not seen the Panny in action but I have seen the Vizio. In fact I considered this set myself, but I opted for the Sharp 52" LCD. IMHO it just had a much better PQ, especially in the CR/black levels. I went with a 1080 LCD since the set is a 52", I sit fairly close (6'-8'), and I have a lot of ambient light.

But putting aside my situational bias towards 1080 LCD, sight unseen based on the review of the Panny PQ and it's improved anti-glare screen, I would lean towards it over the Vizio.

But that's me, and ultimately PQ is in the eye of the beholder.

Hope this helps.

Terminader · 09-27-07, 09:47 AM

I chose the Vizio 52" LCD over plasma because we watch TV with lighting, especially during the day due to large windows in the viewing room. I didn't want the reflection.

Once you focus on LCDs, there are a lot to choose from. Since the technology is still maturing and I didn't want to pay top dollar even for the best picture, I went with Vizio from Costco for my 52" and 42". This way you have 90 days to evaluate your decision with an unconditional return. I had some very minor issues with the panels and Costco/Vizio replaced each unit quickly with no charge or hassle. The Vizio units have great features, both are 1080p, have good styling and quality and about 80-95% the PQ of more expensive sets, depending on how picky you are.

Now both sets are performing very well and I only spent $3K total!

Adult Beverage · 09-27-07, 10:05 AM

I really like the Panasonic plasmas, but at that size and your closer viewing distance, SDE may be noticable. 1080 may be needed. I know it can be hard to justify, but I would save a little more and get a higher quality panel (Sony, Samsung, Sharp in LCD or 1080 Panasonic plasma). Ultimately, let your eyes tell you what you like best in the price range you're willing to pay.

hoodlum · 09-27-07, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adult Beverage

I really like the Panasonic plasmas, but at that size and your closer viewing distance, SDE may be noticable. 1080 may be needed. I know it can be hard to justify, but I would save a little more and get a higher quality panel (Sony, Samsung, Sharp in LCD or 1080 Panasonic plasma). Ultimately, let your eyes tell you what you like best in the price range you're willing to pay.

At 10-20 feet you will not see SDE and 1080p is not required.

drcarr · 09-27-07, 01:55 PM

ok, i just got back from the big C and spent some time looking at them all.
the panny is definitely better overall compared to the vizio and the HP. better blacks, better color, less glare. the vizio plasma had a hazy look to everything... especially the black tones (charcoal color instead of inky black).

the lcd is much brighter and emits much more light to give a more vivid picture. the colors seem to "pop" more coming out of the LCD compared to the panny. i couldn't tell in the store setting if it had better or worse blacks and contrast. they looked pretty comparable. off axis viewing was more distorted compared to the panny plasma.

RUSTY PELICAN · 09-27-07, 08:34 PM

Brightness is overrated.

If you watch your movies in a "lights out" dark room environment, you will regret buying most of the LCD models, especially the Vizio, as most of their LCDs do NOT have an adjustable backlight!

That's right - the backlight setting is FIXED - a real dealbreaker for me (if I was you considering this brand).

High backlighting is nice in a very bright room, but NOT for watching movies in a "theater room" environment; also with higher backlight and brightness levels, your color accuracy is affected and not natural.

For plasma, I recommend Panasonic or Pioneer [expensive]. For LCD, I recommend JVC (with it's excellent 32-bit processing chip and 5th generation D.I.S.T. scaling technology) - also JVC is known for accurate colors [not saturated]. Link to their '07 models - http://tv.jvc.com/main.jsp

drcarr · 09-27-07, 08:47 PM

i just ran out and bought the panny from big C. verizon will install Fios in the next few days and i will post a follow up after she's up and running.
after much research and help from you guys i felt the panny was definitely the best bang for the buck considering pq and my environment. it kicked butt over the vizio plasma for black level and detail as well as color representation. i think the LCD's looked a little to stale or computer screen like for me. the off axis viewing was also a big downer.
can't wait to get this thing installed!
thanks for all the help!!!

penngray · 10-01-07, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Brightness is overrated.

If you watch your movies in a "lights out" dark room environment, you will regret buying most of the LCD models, especially the Vizio, as most of their LCDs do NOT have an adjustable backlight!

That's right - the backlight setting is FIXED - a real dealbreaker for me (if I was you considering this brand).

High backlighting is nice in a very bright room, but NOT for watching movies in a "theater room" environment; also with higher backlight and brightness levels, your color accuracy is affected and not natural.

Great most people use these in a lighted room

Dark HT rooms should have 100" projection systems anyways

Wyatt Dog · 10-01-07, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RUSTY PELICAN

Brightness is overrated.

If you watch your movies in a "lights out" dark room environment, you will regret buying most of the LCD models, especially the Vizio, as most of their LCDs do NOT have an adjustable backlight!

That's right - the backlight setting is FIXED - a real dealbreaker for me (if I was you considering this brand).

Maybe the backlight is fixed on the JVC, but it IS adjustabe on the Vizio 52, and on the Sharp Aquos which I own. When I was researching I did note the Philips was fixed, but that actually seemed unusual to me since there were a lot of choices that offered adjustable backlighting.

drcarr · 10-02-07, 11:43 PM

i just got a 50" panny plasma and need to get a mount to put it on the wall.
what would you guys recommend for a mount? best bang for the buck that works well with the Panasonic TH-50PC77U?
thanks!

Wyatt Dog · 10-03-07, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcarr

i just got a 50" panny plasma and need to get a mount to put it on the wall.
what would you guys recommend for a mount? best bang for the buck that works well with the Panasonic TH-50PC77U?
thanks!

Check here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=TH-50PC77U

If the answer isn't there, it would be a good place to post your query.

RUSTY PELICAN · 10-03-07, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyatt Dog

Maybe the backlight is fixed on the JVC, but it IS adjustabe on the Vizio 52, and on the Sharp Aquos which I own. When I was researching I did note the Philips was fixed, but that actually seemed unusual to me since there were a lot of choices that offered adjustable backlighting.

You misread my post. I said the Vizio's backlight is "fixed", not the JVC, and certainly not Sharp models.

Back to your reply - are you saying you have a fully adjustable backlight option? and not just several "pre-set" choices that can be selected?

Reviews I've read in A/V magazines, and on cnet have stated that Vizio LCDs do not have adjustable backlights - if they've changed this recently, that's great.

Wyatt Dog · 10-04-07, 12:32 AM

Your post read:

"...you will regret buying most of the LCD models, especially the Vizio, as most of their LCDs do NOT have an adjustable backlight!"

If that statement is addressing only the Vizio exclusively, then I mis-read your post.

Anyway, yes the Vizio 52" LCD has an adjustable backlight. There are 3 "presets", but it also offers adjustability of various things including backlight. CNet only recently (a month ago maybe) reviewed this set. One issue it had with the adjustable backlight is that it is not independent for each input. Here's a link to the review:

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...l?tag=pdtl-img

Since I had looked at this TV before choosing the Aquos, I had been following the owners thread. The adjustable backlight on the Vizio is apparently not without some problems, namely backlight buzz/hum at settings below the factory setting of 90. Some can't hear it, and some find it intolerable (sort of like the Sharp banding issue). The CNet review also mentioned this problem.

I don't know about previous Vizio lines lack of adjustability as I haven't been in the market that long. I defer to you since you've done that research in the past. As for the current Vizio Gallevia line, the 52" and the 47" (I'm almost positive about the 47) are adjustable. The 42" I just don't know.

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drcarr Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 70	Plasma or LCD??? I'm trying to decide what to buy from the big C for my viewing conditions. this is my first flat panel tv and i'm trying to decide what 50" to buy... LCD or Plasma and what brand for my conditions. you guys know way more about this than me so i'm relying on your expertise! in my price range... Plasmas at big C to choose from: HP 50" PL5072N Vizio 50" Panasonic TH-50PC77U LCD's: Vizio 52" LCD the tv is going to go in my living room with a decent amount of ambient light. it will be viewed mostly with HD and SD tv from about 10 ft. to 20 ft. away thru verizion fios. your recommendations out of the list above are greatly appreciated!!!

09-27-07, 01:49 AM	#3 \| Link
Wyatt Dog Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 129	LCD is a better choice if there is a lot of light in the room. Just compare the reflections off the screens of the LCDs and plasmas. Additionally, the Vizio is 1080 while the two plasmas you listed are not. At this screen size it may or may not make that much difference to you, but viewing distance can also be a factor. On the other hand, the Vizio is the only LCD on your list and with this unit you will lack the CR and black levels offered by the plasmas or some of the other LCDs out there. CR/black levels is a very important component of PQ. The Panny mitigates the glare factor somewhat with it's anti-glare screen. I would pick the Panny over the HP or Vizio plasmas, so if it was me my list would now be down to 2 sets: The Panny plasma or the Vizio LCD. Here are the CNET reviews for each to help you in your research: Panny: http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...l?tag=pdtl-img Vizio: http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...l?tag=pdtl-img If you go by the reviews, the Panny wins with an 8.0 rating to Vizio's 6.6. I have not seen the Panny in action but I have seen the Vizio. In fact I considered this set myself, but I opted for the Sharp 52" LCD. IMHO it just had a much better PQ, especially in the CR/black levels. I went with a 1080 LCD since the set is a 52", I sit fairly close (6'-8'), and I have a lot of ambient light. But putting aside my situational bias towards 1080 LCD, sight unseen based on the review of the Panny PQ and it's improved anti-glare screen, I would lean towards it over the Vizio. But that's me, and ultimately PQ is in the eye of the beholder. Hope this helps. __________________ "Some days it isn't worth chewing through the restraints."

09-27-07, 09:47 AM	#4 \| Link
Terminader LCD lover Join Date: May 2007 Location: California Posts: 622	Vizio GV52 I chose the Vizio 52" LCD over plasma because we watch TV with lighting, especially during the day due to large windows in the viewing room. I didn't want the reflection. Once you focus on LCDs, there are a lot to choose from. Since the technology is still maturing and I didn't want to pay top dollar even for the best picture, I went with Vizio from Costco for my 52" and 42". This way you have 90 days to evaluate your decision with an unconditional return. I had some very minor issues with the panels and Costco/Vizio replaced each unit quickly with no charge or hassle. The Vizio units have great features, both are 1080p, have good styling and quality and about 80-95% the PQ of more expensive sets, depending on how picky you are. Now both sets are performing very well and I only spent $3K total! __________________ Consider American Company Vizio since it is the best selling LCD brand in the U.S. in Q2'09 Vizio's Strategy from Washington Post Article

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Adult Beverage Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 218	I really like the Panasonic plasmas, but at that size and your closer viewing distance, SDE may be noticable. 1080 may be needed. I know it can be hard to justify, but I would save a little more and get a higher quality panel (Sony, Samsung, Sharp in LCD or 1080 Panasonic plasma). Ultimately, let your eyes tell you what you like best in the price range you're willing to pay.

09-27-07, 08:47 PM	#9 \| Link
drcarr Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 70	thanks! i just ran out and bought the panny from big C. verizon will install Fios in the next few days and i will post a follow up after she's up and running. after much research and help from you guys i felt the panny was definitely the best bang for the buck considering pq and my environment. it kicked butt over the vizio plasma for black level and detail as well as color representation. i think the LCD's looked a little to stale or computer screen like for me. the off axis viewing was also a big downer. can't wait to get this thing installed! thanks for all the help!!!

09-26-07, 10:51 PM	#2 \| Link
david(dallas) Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: plano, Tx Posts: 333	From that list, the Panny Plasma is best IMHO. Vizio's pictures always look a bit fuzzy to me. And Panasonic and Pioneer are the best of the Plasma's.

09-27-07, 01:55 PM	#7 \| Link
drcarr Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 70	ok, i just got back from the big C and spent some time looking at them all. the panny is definitely better overall compared to the vizio and the HP. better blacks, better color, less glare. the vizio plasma had a hazy look to everything... especially the black tones (charcoal color instead of inky black). the lcd is much brighter and emits much more light to give a more vivid picture. the colors seem to "pop" more coming out of the LCD compared to the panny. i couldn't tell in the store setting if it had better or worse blacks and contrast. they looked pretty comparable. off axis viewing was more distorted compared to the panny plasma.

09-27-07, 08:34 PM	#8 \| Link
RUSTY PELICAN Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 543	Brightness is overrated. If you watch your movies in a "lights out" dark room environment, you will regret buying most of the LCD models, especially the Vizio, as most of their LCDs do NOT have an adjustable backlight! That's right - the backlight setting is FIXED - a real dealbreaker for me (if I was you considering this brand). High backlighting is nice in a very bright room, but NOT for watching movies in a "theater room" environment; also with higher backlight and brightness levels, your color accuracy is affected and not natural. For plasma, I recommend Panasonic or Pioneer [expensive]. For LCD, I recommend JVC (with it's excellent 32-bit processing chip and 5th generation D.I.S.T. scaling technology) - also JVC is known for accurate colors [not saturated]. Link to their '07 models - http://tv.jvc.com/main.jsp

10-02-07, 11:43 PM	#12 \| Link
drcarr Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 70	got the panny! i just got a 50" panny plasma and need to get a mount to put it on the wall. what would you guys recommend for a mount? best bang for the buck that works well with the Panasonic TH-50PC77U? thanks!

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Wyatt Dog Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 129	Your post read: "...you will regret buying most of the LCD models, especially the Vizio, as most of their LCDs do NOT have an adjustable backlight!" If that statement is addressing only the Vizio exclusively, then I mis-read your post. Anyway, yes the Vizio 52" LCD has an adjustable backlight. There are 3 "presets", but it also offers adjustability of various things including backlight. CNet only recently (a month ago maybe) reviewed this set. One issue it had with the adjustable backlight is that it is not independent for each input. Here's a link to the review: http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...l?tag=pdtl-img Since I had looked at this TV before choosing the Aquos, I had been following the owners thread. The adjustable backlight on the Vizio is apparently not without some problems, namely backlight buzz/hum at settings below the factory setting of 90. Some can't hear it, and some find it intolerable (sort of like the Sharp banding issue). The CNet review also mentioned this problem. I don't know about previous Vizio lines lack of adjustability as I haven't been in the market that long. I defer to you since you've done that research in the past. As for the current Vizio Gallevia line, the 52" and the 47" (I'm almost positive about the 47) are adjustable. The 42" I just don't know. __________________ "Some days it isn't worth chewing through the restraints."