Newbie "Which TV" question (blah, I know)

tophyr · 10-03-07, 02:18 PM

Forgive me

(btw, that "Here are the similar threads we found:" feature is specfreakintacular - if I could get pointed toward whoever'd be in charge of/know details about that I'd very grateful!)

I've followed HDTV discussions for a couple weeks now and am beginning to grasp the different details and such, but a leg up on what specifically applies to me would be helpful. If there are any websites/shops out there that can filter/suggest options without deluging me with the latest and greatest sales BS, they'd also help a ton

Heres what (I think) I know so far:

1) My viewing room has two large-ish windows and a large archway to the dining room - basically your average living room. The windows have blinds and curtains, but the room probably won't ever get truly dark during the day.
2) Glare is not a *huge* issue for me, but it is annoying. My current CRT TV has glare issues. I wish it didn't, but I don't cry at night about it

3) I don't care much about 1080p. I doubt I'll be able to tell the difference w/o sitting close enough to get a headache, and I don't want to pay $1000 extra.
4) Inputs will be cable (eventually run thru a TiVoHD), Xbox360 Elite w/HD-DVD, PS2 (not 3), Nintendo 64 and the occasional laptop over VGA (none of our laptops have DVI out, but VGA->DVI is of course doable).
5) I'm not a huge gamer. I'll play the Xbox/PS2/N64 occasionally, but I can't remember the last time I've played for a significant amount of time (>1hr). My other male roommate is the same, and my female roommate wouldn't play video games if I paid her money.
6) I'm not a huge sports fan. I do, however, watch a lot of fast-motion video. I'm very into motorcycle racing, I like action movies, and when the Seahawks are playing at the same time I'm at the TV I do make an effort to watch.
7) I'm leaning toward flat screens, because I find the off-axis dimming on RPTV's very annoying. At Best Buy last night I'd sit a little bit nearer than usual (but not out of the question nearer) and I'd see vignetting - the center would be bright and colorful and it'd fall off by the edges. Seemed ridiculously bad. I didn't notice that effect very much with the LCDs they had on display, despite that supposedly also being a problem with LCDs.
8) I'm looking for a 42-46"-ish screen, 50" would be real nice. Don't wanna spend much anything over $1500 total (incl. wall mount, if flat panel).
9) I'm a B/W photographer; blacks and contrast levels matter very greatly to me. I won't be using the TV to regularly display my images, but I notice those qualities.
10) Color is important to an extent. I'd rather have too vivid colors than too washed out, and I tend to like them slightly on the vivid side of perfect repro.

Based on all this I'm leaning toward LCDs, but I still have no idea who's who in the LCD business. What are the better models/brands I should look at that are in that $1500 (total) price range? I'm also not remotely set on LCDs, that's just what I've come up with on my own. If one of you thinks better, please let me know.

mikemikeb · 10-03-07, 04:38 PM

I'm thinking the Sony KDL-40S3000. 10-bit processing on a 10-bit panel, unusual for LCDs these days. It's supposed to create more potential shades of gray vs. an 8-bit system. Some frequent on the forums (westa6969 I believe) has seen one and really likes it.

If you wanted to spend an extra $300 or so, and shopped on Amazon, you could upgrade to the 46" version (KDL-46S3000). Amazon's a great place to buy any TVs at a low price.

By the way, an inexpensive alternative is the 42-inch Toshiba 42HL67. Not a bad display there, either -- but not 10-bit, as far as I know.

swimmer_sf · 10-04-07, 01:39 PM

If I might interject a question here ... what is 10-bit processing and what is a 10-bit panel? Thanks.

kalrith · 10-04-07, 02:19 PM

Try this thread. It's got some good input at the same budget as you.

I would personally recommend the Panasonic 50PX77U. It might be a little over your budget, but it has an excellent anti-glare coating which is supposed to be better than any other plasma out there. You'd be very hard-pressed to find an LCD of the same size at the same price with the same picture quality of the Panasonic plasma. And the light dispersion should be about 90% as good as an LCD, and MUCH better than your CRT. In fact, any current plasma will deal with reflections better than your CRT because they all have some sort of anti-reflective coating.

If you can't afford the 50", it also comes in 42" as the 42PX77U. The 75U version is less-expensive but does not handle reflections as well as the 77U.

DBLASS · 10-06-07, 06:42 PM

The AR coating is only on the front. Most of the reflections of a plasma are internal and the AR coating does nothing to help them.

tower101 · 10-06-07, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBLASS

The AR coating is only on the front. Most of the reflections of a plasma are internal and the AR coating does nothing to help them.

What

I have an 50PZ77 and tried the 50PX77, 50PX75, 5054 I also have 3 LCDs if you check some of my past post you will see that I hate reflections.

The anti-glare on the 77 Pannys is very good, it is more reflective then a matt screen LCD but no where as reflective as a normal PDP. Its about the same as Sony's XBR4/5 "hybrid" screen.

I have no idea what DBLASS is taking about as the 77 is not really a coating but is the material/glass itself.

Internal reflections ?? guess that would be a problem if I was inside the TV trying to look out

A 50PX77 is 2-3 hundred more then you said you want to spend though.

andy sullivan · 10-06-07, 08:29 PM

I just received the latest edition of Home Theater Magazine today, In a nutshell they say that LCD's in general are still plagued by motion blur, poor off axis viewing, and weak black levels.

Nmlobo · 10-06-07, 09:31 PM

This is from Home Theater Mag.

"The latest LCDs are not devoid of motion blur completely as plasma is, but they're fast enough to watch even the fastest of sporting events with few desultory effects."

So is this "While LCDs are getting better, they are still more sensitive to horizontal viewing angle than plasmas are. As you walk to the side you'll notice the LCD's contrast compress, and the colors go out of whack.

If you've got your coach planted far off to the side of where your flat panel's going to be, look harder at plasma."
http://www.hometheatermag.com/advice...407plasmavlcd/[/quote]

It seems that (from this article at least) blur should not be an issue with LCDs in most cases. I'm not sure if the off-axis viewing is poor or just not as good as plasma. There is a differnce.

Did they rate the black levels on the Samsung 71 & 81 series? I have not seen either display but have heard they have excellent black levels.

RUSTY PELICAN · 10-06-07, 10:26 PM

Bad URL link (abbreviated) in the post above^^ - when clicked, you only get the home page.

here is the correct URL (for the actual page) -
http://hometheatermag.com/advicefrom...407plasmavlcd/

Note about glare... EVEN LCD SCREENS CAN HAVE GLARE, such as in an office environment with bright overhead lights. While it's not as obvious as seen on plasma screens, a matte LCD screen can also show your face or room objects reflected from the glass (mainly noticeable with very bright room lights).

10-03-07, 02:18 PM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
tophyr New Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4	Newbie "Which TV" question (blah, I know) Forgive me (btw, that "Here are the similar threads we found:" feature is specfreakintacular - if I could get pointed toward whoever'd be in charge of/know details about that I'd very grateful!) I've followed HDTV discussions for a couple weeks now and am beginning to grasp the different details and such, but a leg up on what specifically applies to me would be helpful. If there are any websites/shops out there that can filter/suggest options without deluging me with the latest and greatest sales BS, they'd also help a ton Heres what (I think) I know so far: 1) My viewing room has two large-ish windows and a large archway to the dining room - basically your average living room. The windows have blinds and curtains, but the room probably won't ever get truly dark during the day. 2) Glare is not a huge issue for me, but it is annoying. My current CRT TV has glare issues. I wish it didn't, but I don't cry at night about it 3) I don't care much about 1080p. I doubt I'll be able to tell the difference w/o sitting close enough to get a headache, and I don't want to pay $1000 extra. 4) Inputs will be cable (eventually run thru a TiVoHD), Xbox360 Elite w/HD-DVD, PS2 (not 3), Nintendo 64 and the occasional laptop over VGA (none of our laptops have DVI out, but VGA->DVI is of course doable). 5) I'm not a huge gamer. I'll play the Xbox/PS2/N64 occasionally, but I can't remember the last time I've played for a significant amount of time (>1hr). My other male roommate is the same, and my female roommate wouldn't play video games if I paid her money. 6) I'm not a huge sports fan. I do, however, watch a lot of fast-motion video. I'm very into motorcycle racing, I like action movies, and when the Seahawks are playing at the same time I'm at the TV I do make an effort to watch. 7) I'm leaning toward flat screens, because I find the off-axis dimming on RPTV's very annoying. At Best Buy last night I'd sit a little bit nearer than usual (but not out of the question nearer) and I'd see vignetting - the center would be bright and colorful and it'd fall off by the edges. Seemed ridiculously bad. I didn't notice that effect very much with the LCDs they had on display, despite that supposedly also being a problem with LCDs. 8) I'm looking for a 42-46"-ish screen, 50" would be real nice. Don't wanna spend much anything over $1500 total (incl. wall mount, if flat panel). 9) I'm a B/W photographer; blacks and contrast levels matter very greatly to me. I won't be using the TV to regularly display my images, but I notice those qualities. 10) Color is important to an extent. I'd rather have too vivid colors than too washed out, and I tend to like them slightly on the vivid side of perfect repro. Based on all this I'm leaning toward LCDs, but I still have no idea who's who in the LCD business. What are the better models/brands I should look at that are in that $1500 (total) price range? I'm also not remotely set on LCDs, that's just what I've come up with on my own. If one of you thinks better, please let me know.

10-06-07, 06:42 PM	#5 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
DBLASS Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 665	The AR coating is only on the front. Most of the reflections of a plasma are internal and the AR coating does nothing to help them.

10-06-07, 09:31 PM	#8 \| Link
Nmlobo AVS Special Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Yorktown, VA Posts: 2,417	This is from Home Theater Mag. "The latest LCDs are not devoid of motion blur completely as plasma is, but they're fast enough to watch even the fastest of sporting events with few desultory effects." So is this "While LCDs are getting better, they are still more sensitive to horizontal viewing angle than plasmas are. As you walk to the side you'll notice the LCD's contrast compress, and the colors go out of whack. If you've got your coach planted far off to the side of where your flat panel's going to be, look harder at plasma." http://www.hometheatermag.com/advice...407plasmavlcd/[/quote] It seems that (from this article at least) blur should not be an issue with LCDs in most cases. I'm not sure if the off-axis viewing is poor or just not as good as plasma. There is a differnce. Did they rate the black levels on the Samsung 71 & 81 series? I have not seen either display but have heard they have excellent black levels. Last edited by Nmlobo; 10-06-07 at 09:42 PM..

10-03-07, 04:38 PM	#2 \| Link
mikemikeb AVS Special Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: DC Area Posts: 1,834	I'm thinking the Sony KDL-40S3000. 10-bit processing on a 10-bit panel, unusual for LCDs these days. It's supposed to create more potential shades of gray vs. an 8-bit system. Some frequent on the forums (westa6969 I believe) has seen one and really likes it. If you wanted to spend an extra $300 or so, and shopped on Amazon, you could upgrade to the 46" version (KDL-46S3000). Amazon's a great place to buy any TVs at a low price. By the way, an inexpensive alternative is the 42-inch Toshiba 42HL67. Not a bad display there, either -- but not 10-bit, as far as I know.

10-04-07, 01:39 PM	#3 \| Link
swimmer_sf Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 55	If I might interject a question here ... what is 10-bit processing and what is a 10-bit panel? Thanks.

10-04-07, 02:19 PM	#4 \| Link
kalrith Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 324 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	Try this thread. It's got some good input at the same budget as you. I would personally recommend the Panasonic 50PX77U. It might be a little over your budget, but it has an excellent anti-glare coating which is supposed to be better than any other plasma out there. You'd be very hard-pressed to find an LCD of the same size at the same price with the same picture quality of the Panasonic plasma. And the light dispersion should be about 90% as good as an LCD, and MUCH better than your CRT. In fact, any current plasma will deal with reflections better than your CRT because they all have some sort of anti-reflective coating. If you can't afford the 50", it also comes in 42" as the 42PX77U. The 75U version is less-expensive but does not handle reflections as well as the 77U.

10-06-07, 08:29 PM	#7 \| Link
andy sullivan AVS Special Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: sun city west AZ Posts: 1,612	I just received the latest edition of Home Theater Magazine today, In a nutshell they say that LCD's in general are still plagued by motion blur, poor off axis viewing, and weak black levels.

10-06-07, 10:26 PM	#9 \| Link
RUSTY PELICAN Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 543	Bad URL link (abbreviated) in the post above^^ - when clicked, you only get the home page. here is the correct URL (for the actual page) - http://hometheatermag.com/advicefrom...407plasmavlcd/ Note about glare... EVEN LCD SCREENS CAN HAVE GLARE, such as in an office environment with bright overhead lights. While it's not as obvious as seen on plasma screens, a matte LCD screen can also show your face or room objects reflected from the glass (mainly noticeable with very bright room lights).