Plasma (Pioneer PDP-5010FD) vs. LCD (Sony KDL52XBR5)

[Michael9009]

I am building a home theatre and have difficulty deciding between a plasma panel or an LCD panel, particularly these models from Pioneer and Sony (but not only). Some people say LCDs are brighter and do not suffer from burn-in but I tend to find plasmas much sharper (especially for moving pictures) and displaying much natural colours.

What is the general consensus here, on AVS: Which system offers the best picture quality (i.e. greates detail, best colour accuracy, best grey shade gradation, best blacks, etc.): Plasma or LCD? Also, which one is more durable?

Thank you.

[Nmlobo]

You will not discover a "general consensus" answer to your questions. Everyone has a favorite and many will try to convince you that if you don't buy that technology you are losing out. The truth is both pdp and lcd are decent technologies. It depends upon each person's opinion as to which is better.

Since you are building this home theater for your enjoyment and you 'tend to find plasmas much sharper' etc. You've answered your own question, you want a plasma.

[NathanC]

They're both far too small for a "home theater". They'd be fine for an apartment bedroom or something, though. Also there's not one good reason to ever buy a Sony LCD over a Pioneer plasma. Get the 60" Pioneer.

[johnnybrulez]

Originally Posted by Michael9009

What is the general consensus here, on AVS: Which system offers the best picture quality (i.e. greates detail, best colour accuracy, best grey shade gradation, best blacks, etc.): Plasma or LCD? Also, which one is more durable?

Thank you.

I think both will be durable. I think the sony will have the potential to display a more accurate portrayal of colors. But the Pioneers black level, contrast, shadow detail, and color saturation will be much better. It no longer an LCD vs. Plasma debate for me. Its totally brand by brand at the moment because Pioneer's plasmas IMO are in another league compared to other plasmas, even their previous models.

I personally think it all depends on when are you watching. In the dark or in the daytime. In the dark Pioneer. In the daytime, I'd be totally happy with a Sony LCD and that nifty looking bezel. Although I'd probably go for a Samsung 71 or that newer matte version instead. oh heck 71 sereis and make sure no direct light hits it.

If you want to get something that's has he deepest blacks (you can buy now), the most accurate in color, and the most detail go Elite, slap D-nice's settings on and tweak. And watch. Yowzah.

[oldcband]

OP
Listen to Johnny he knows displays. Also from reading his comments about Sony's black levels they aren't up to the Samsungs (if you go LCD). Depending on your budget you can get a heck of deal on 5265 Sammy if this is the size your looking for. If you go with the 71 its just a little better contrast and 120hz feature and 1k more. Draw back is glossy screen with 71 series or wait for the 69 series for a matte but largest screen is 46".

Look at the new Misubishi Diamond series LT-52244 excellent reviews from Cedia folks and has a cablecard slot if thats an intrest.

Plasma just have the right room conditions. Theres good TV's to be had right now.

[cybertec]

Originally Posted by Michael9009

I am building a home theatre and have difficulty deciding between a plasma panel or an LCD panel, particularly these models from Pioneer and Sony (but not only). Some people say LCDs are brighter and do not suffer from burn-in but I tend to find plasmas much sharper (especially for moving pictures) and displaying much natural colours.

What is the general consensus here, on AVS: Which system offers the best picture quality (i.e. greates detail, best colour accuracy, best grey shade gradation, best blacks, etc.): Plasma or LCD? Also, which one is more durable?

Thank you.

well the Pioneer 5010 1080p is real close to the Pioneer Elite PRO-110FD "the one I own" , here are a few pics for you, to help you decide between a Plasma and an LCD, LCD's can not even compete with any of the new Pioneer Kuro PDP's, matter of fact any PDP will display a more natural image, the way it was meant to be seen, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=920011

[RomanInvision]

Originally Posted by cybertec

well the Pioneer 5010 1080p is real close to the Pioneer Elite PRO-110FD "the one I own" , here are a few pics for you, to help you decide between a Plasma and an LCD, LCD's can not even compete with any of the new Pioneer Kuro PDP's, matter of fact any PDP will display a more natural image, the way it was meant to be seen, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=920011

I dont know how anyone can argue with those pics

[BriS2K]

Yes, go with the 5010FD - I've owned both and the Kuro's pq is jaw dropping. I wasn't impressed (rather disappointed) with the XBR's ability to do dark scenes - muddy greys.

Forget burn-in - won't happen on this set.

[tmeader]

To the original poster:

Be POSITIVE that you cannot see the yellow trailing effect that sometimes can be seen on plasmas (very few people see it, but I'm one of them). The best way to test this is to take a black and white movie to the store and test it out on the plasma you're thinking of getting. Sin City works great for this. If you don't see any trails on that movie, you should be fine. If they'd let you try out a game, Gears of War is a great test for this too.

I only wish I'd done THAT at the store when I was checking them out. Unfortunately I didn't realize that the feeds they showed never had the right content for this problem to crop up. I'm now gonna be out about 1K after restocking and shipping fees with Plasma Concepts since my set isn't technically "faulty", just not compatible with my eyes it seems. There's actually another poster on here who likewise returned a 5010 for the same reason and is getting an XBR4 instead.

In all likelihood you'll be fine, as most people tend to NEVER see this. But if you do see it, trust me, it's impossible to ignore.

[cybertec]

Originally Posted by tmeader

To the original poster:

Be POSITIVE that you cannot see the yellow trailing effect that sometimes can be seen on plasmas (very few people see it, but I'm one of them). The best way to test this is to take a black and white movie to the store and test it out on the plasma you're thinking of getting. Sin City works great for this. If you don't see any trails on that movie, you should be fine. If they'd let you try out a game, Gears of War is a great test for this too.

I only wish I'd done THAT at the store when I was checking them out. Unfortunately I didn't realize that the feeds they showed never had the right content for this problem to crop up. I'm now gonna be out about 1K after restocking and shipping fees with Plasma Concepts since my set isn't technically "faulty", just not compatible with my eyes it seems. There's actually another poster on here who likewise returned a 5010 for the same reason and is getting an XBR4 instead.

In all likelihood you'll be fine, as most people tend to NEVER see this. But if you do see it, trust me, it's impossible to ignore.

yellow trails on a PDP, yea right, I think it's time for you to put away the peace pipe.

[oldcband]

Originally Posted by cybertec

yellow trails on a PDP, yea right, I think it's time for you to put away the peace pipe.

Read this thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=603995

[brentsg]

Originally Posted by cybertec

yellow trails on a PDP, yea right, I think it's time for you to put away the peace pipe.

I see them quite easily, but less so on the Kuros than on the latest Panasonics.

[johnnybrulez]

Originally Posted by brentsg

I see them quite easily, but less so on the Kuros than on the latest Panasonics.

I see a 'rainbow' effect on the Kuros when running the 'white wash' pattern. I think the contrast is so intense that I can finally see it. On other plasmas with weaker contrast its harder to notice. Also when credits run by really quick at the end of movies.

Yellow streaks I kinda see... nothing that is too bad for me. Luckily.

[Elemental1]

I got 2 words for you Johnny: Retinal Latency.

[WaldorfSalad]

I see the darned things also, on any plasma! If it weren't for them I would mostly like own a plasma instead of LCDs and RP HDTVs.

[tmeader]

Originally Posted by cybertec

yellow trails on a PDP, yea right, I think it's time for you to put away the peace pipe.

Observe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVw_VvFcV1U

That is EXACTLY what I see playing Gears of War on my (soon to be sent back because of it) Kuro. The video is of a Panasonic, but I see the same thing. My girlfriend can't see it at all. It all depends on each person's eyes unfortunately, which is why I said "make sure YOU can't see it" to the original poster.

[brentsg]

That's exactly what I see on a new Panasonic 1080p 50", but the Kuros are much better for my eyes.

Fortunately Sin City and Gears of War seem to be a worst case scenario in terms of content. On most stuff it's not an issue (again, to me).

[greenland]

Originally Posted by johnnybrulez

I see a 'rainbow' effect on the Kuros when running the 'white wash' pattern. I think the contrast is so intense that I can finally see it. On other plasmas with weaker contrast its harder to notice. Also when credits run by really quick at the end of movies.

Yellow streaks I kinda see... nothing that is too bad for me. Luckily.

Johnny,

Did the "Whitewash" feature correct the IR that you had on your set?

How does the Whitewash function? is it a method to even out the phosphors, and if it is, could it possibly be applied as a tool to break in and condition the set, instead of using a break in disc procedure?

[johnnybrulez]

Originally Posted by greenland

Johnny,

Did the "Whitewash" feature correct the IR that you had on your set?

How does the Whitewash function? is it a method to even out the phosphors, and if it is, could it possibly be applied as a tool to break in and condition the set, instead of using a break in disc procedure?

Well I ran it a couple times and it didn't seem to do much. But as of now, the IR is gone so... whether it helped I am unsure. Watching video material sure did though.

[tmacias]

I just picked up the Pioneer Kuro PDP-5010FD at Costco for $2600 but have a concern. My family watches a boat load of TV. We have DTV sat and I get local HD off the air with all first going though a HD Tivo DTV box and then into my Denon 3806 A/V reciever. All components go to the Denon and then to the TV.

I am in the mist of remodeling so I set up the Pioneer on our dinning room table to burn it in. I did not read the manual as I just wanted to start the burn in cycle. I first connect the off air antenna (to get HD signal to the TV) but got a really crappy signal. I then took our HD Tivo box and conneted the DTV sat and the off air antenna to it, and then connected component video cables to the Pioneer. Got a good pitcure. Does this mean the Pioneer does not have a HD tuner?

Also, everyone in my family is complaining that the picture is lousy. We are sitting around 10 feet from the TV and watching SD channels. 10 feet will be the maximum sitting area in the living room when it gets completed. Is a 50 in too big? For non-blue ray veiwing, is the Pioneer plasma too much? I was originally looking at the Samsung LN52A650 at a lower price but went for the Pioneer because of the Costco deal and all the positive reviews. I am now thinking that I need a smaller TV than 50 in and maybe even an non-plasma for the type of viewing we normal do.

Any suggestion. I still have time to return the Pioneer to Costco.

[RobertR1]

I have had both and currently have a 5010. The XBR4/5 have nothing on the 5010. Seriously, it's not even close.

[maxdog03]

Originally Posted by NathanC

They're both far too small for a "home theater". They'd be fine for an apartment bedroom or something, though. Also there's not one good reason to ever buy a Sony LCD over a Pioneer plasma. Get the 60" Pioneer.

That's not true. A 50" can make a fine home theater setup. Not everyone has the room or the need to be immersed in the picture and have the aesthetics of the room (and the WAF) to take into account. I have had a 50" for over 12years now and fully enjoy it with a complete home video and audio setup that does just fine.

[chadmak09]

Originally Posted by tmeader

Observe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVw_VvFcV1U

That is EXACTLY what I see playing Gears of War on my (soon to be sent back because of it) Kuro. The video is of a Panasonic, but I see the same thing. My girlfriend can't see it at all. It all depends on each person's eyes unfortunately, which is why I said "make sure YOU can't see it" to the original poster.

The TV in that video is flat out defective.
Green fringing that bad is not something you are likely to see at all. Period.
I have owned several Plasmas and I have never noticed anything like that.
Same with this "yellow Trails" stuff. Never seen it, probably never will.
People need to understand that just because one set exhibits a strange issue, That does not mean that it is something that is inherit to that technology.

To the OP.
Get the Kuro. period. You will not find a better flat panel.
I got a Samsung LNT5271F about a year ago and started noticing all of its flaws so I traded it in for a better LCD (the Sony KDL52XBR4)
I had the KDL52XBR4 (which is identical to the XBR5 other than a RS232 port and a longer warranty) and was happy for a little while. Then I noticed on CNET that the Pioneer 5080HD was getting such wonderful reviews and had become Cnet's "reference" set to measure others by.
So I traded the Sony in for the PDP-5080HD (the non-1080p, non-elite, 8G Kuro).
The difference is remarkable.
I would take this 50 inch 720p Kuro over any 1080p LCD.
In fact, After owning a Kuro I have vowed to never buy another LCD again. I would take the Panasonic 800u over any LCD also.
Plasma is better at just about everything.
I went to CC the other day and when I was looking at the LCD's I had a hard time understanding how I ever put up with such bad motion handling, uneven backlighting, clouding, flashlighting, bad black levels, the list goes on.
The Kuro had basically opened my eyes to the flaws of LCD Tech.
They aren't lying when they say "Once you go Black, You won't go back".

I got the new 9th Generation Pioneer KURO 60 inch PDP6020FD about 2 weeks ago.
This display destroys all (with the exception of the Elite 60 inch Kuro).

Get the Kuro. You will love it!

[gus738]

AHEEEMMM Guys did you see what date this thread is? the poster that awoke this dead thread is none other then tmacias.

Tmacias did you used to own a CRT TUBE prior to this plasma purchase? also besides crap cable service did you try over the air signal (in door ant?) what about dvd player / movies games etc etc Diffrent cables? hdmi componets (maybe a bad set) man theirs quite a few things to try.

also its Break in Not burn in. theirs 2 things you can do

1) go and dial in d-nice refrense settings for the quick cheat and enjoyment of that set. ( if it looks bad its defective which is Extreamly rare.

2) you can break it in properly using d-nice recommended settings and time. then you can enjoy the tv properly.

fianly what you mean that the picture looks lousy????? please explain more in detail so we can help

Originally Posted by tmacias

I just picked up the Pioneer Kuro PDP-5010FD at Costco for $2600 but have a concern. My family watches a boat load of TV. We have DTV sat and I get local HD off the air with all first going though a HD Tivo DTV box and then into my Denon 3806 A/V reciever. All components go to the Denon and then to the TV.

I am in the mist of remodeling so I set up the Pioneer on our dinning room table to burn it in. I did not read the manual as I just wanted to start the burn in cycle. I first connect the off air antenna (to get HD signal to the TV) but got a really crappy signal. I then took our HD Tivo box and conneted the DTV sat and the off air antenna to it, and then connected component video cables to the Pioneer. Got a good pitcure. Does this mean the Pioneer does not have a HD tuner?

Also, everyone in my family is complaining that the picture is lousy. We are sitting around 10 feet from the TV and watching SD channels. 10 feet will be the maximum sitting area in the living room when it gets completed. Is a 50 in too big? For non-blue ray veiwing, is the Pioneer plasma too much? I was originally looking at the Samsung LN52A650 at a lower price but went for the Pioneer because of the Costco deal and all the positive reviews. I am now thinking that I need a smaller TV than 50 in and maybe even an non-plasma for the type of viewing we normal do.

Any suggestion. I still have time to return the Pioneer to Costco.

[tmacias]

Gus738,

Hope it wasn't a problem to post on a thread that hadn't been live for a few months. I looked for another tread on the Pioneer but most were also as old.

I figured out the problem with the picture. I explain the issue to a co-worker and he asked what digital signal input I was feeding the set? This tirgger a memory when I first got the DirectTV HD Tivo box. My original CRT TV, although HD ready, was only capable of receiving 480P and 720P input. I had to output from the HD Tivo box 480P to be able to sync the signals.

Friday night, I changed the output of the Tivo box to 1080i and started viewing beautiful picture, from the HD OTA atenna, which was also going through the Tivo box, and much better SD DirectTV channels (seemed better than I remember from my old HD CRT TV).

It may not mean anything to those of you that don't play golf but my wife and I watched a tournement this weekend and she said when watching someone on the green, "I can read the green just as if I was putting it". This set went from "my man TV" (her original comment), to "I get full control of this set and the TIVO box for the entire Olympics".

I am still remodeling so I set the Pioneer PDP up on my dinning room table to break it in (not burn it in). All my components but the Tivo box are still in the garage. I did plug in a cheap (free) DVD player that I got years ago when I bought the DTV stuff. It was still in the original box and been in my attic for almost 6 years. The picture doesn't compare with my Progressive scan player on our old CRT but it keeps the kids happy.

Where can I find the d-nice refrence settings you mention? I would like to try that out to see what it does.

I did ordered the "Digital Video Essentials" DVD from Amazon last week and will try to tweek the Pioneer once I get it into the living room. I read some killer reviews about this tool and thought I'd give it a try.

[gus738]

tmacias sorry coming off to you (if it sounded mean) i kind of feel that your question is irrelevent from this thread title and excuse me for replying late i hope you found D-nice settings if not here it is

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=858851

Since you have already break in process go to the refrences

here is the owners thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=858455

godforbid you have the courage to read 400+ post but you will gain a wealth of knowledage so it pays off

heck i dont even own that tv and i still read it (when time permits of course)

enjoy your set