Discouraged HDTV researcher

[LT9000]

All these new display technologies appear to be half-baked. I've researched intensively for a new HDTV, and they all suffer from problems the end consumer should not have to deal with after plunking down $1000 and up: Motion blur, flashlighting, clouding, uniformity issues, burn in potential, line bleed, SDE, SSE, etc. etc. or the RPTV just breaks down.

The closest answer, as I see it, is plasma, but their PQ appears dim to me, and whites look more like light grey. They get way too hot, and you have some of the problems mentioned above.

Add to this the fact that there's still alot of SD content out there, and it usually looks like crap blown up on a big HDTV.

I'm actually considering something that would have seemed unthinkable 2 months ago when I first got excited about HD: Staying SD. It seems to me that HDTV's won't be adequately perfected (not perfect) for at least another 2 to 3 years. By then there will be more HD content, and prices will have dropped as well.

This post started out as an email to advise a friend after I got him all excited about HD talking about my research.

I'd love it if someone could show me the error of my ways, but I'm pretty discouraged right now.

[Sceptic]

Ok, pep talk time!

I would advise that you look only at well calibrated 1080p plasmas, including but not limited to Panasonic's 50PZ700/750U, Samsung's 5084, or Pioneer's 5010.

None of these panels will fall within a 1k budget, but for a little more than 2x that (for the cheaper models among the three anyways), you will find your excellent picture quality.

I assure you, there's nothing grey about the whites on these sets. In my experience, they are bright enough to be painful without proper bias lighting - and my Pany 700U is definitely the least bright of the above mentioned sets.

10 minutes into your first blueray/hd dvd disk, and I have no doubt that you will be wondering why you didn't buy an HD set 6 months ago. The picture quality is simply stunning...

Yes, an HD set will reveal certain flaws in your SD signal, in the same way that the world looks less ugly (but more blurry) when you walk around without your glasses on. But some SD channels look surprisingly sharp - especially if you watch in SD's proper aspect ratio.

Prices will drop and better sets will come out, but there really are already some good options out there

[bdraw]

Wow, I thought I was obsessive compulsive.
Thanks for making me feel better.

PS, any HDTV is better than any SDTV.

[GeorgeAB]

If you insist on perfection or nothing......welcome to nothing.....and get used to it!

Take the proctologist's view of life and you'll miss out on the beautiful view the rest of us have been enjoying.

There is no perfect video display. The one's that are near perfect cost a lot more than you are willing to spend.

[Maverickster2]

This has been said many times before by many different people on this board in many different contexts, but I think it bears repeating here.

Universal Truism 1: The products coming out 2-3 years from now will be better than the products out today, but not as good as the products coming out 2-3 years from then.

Universal Truism 2: There is such a thing as paralysis by analysis, and it is endemic amongst the analytical-types who feel the need to research the ever-living-snot out of every purchase they make (a sentiment which is only heightened when there is a multi-thousand dollar, technology-oriented purchase at issue). These are the types of folks that decide, "hey, I'm going to get an HDTV, maybe I should start researching it", and eventually end up here at AVS, get information overload, and get frustrated at least once. I would venture a guess that somewhere between 99.999997% and 99.999999% of AVS Members are such a person.

Universal Truism 3: Joe Six-Pack who uses his aol account for his email, has never even heard of AVS, and walks into Best Buy to pick out the best one by spending 20 minutes glancing at the 40 sets on the wall WILL, in no uncertain terms, be happy with his decision -- uninformed though it may be.

Universal Truism 4: One cannot begin to enjoy HDTV until one owns an HDTV.

Universal Truism 5: The character described in Universal Truism 2 will spend 2 months researching, get frustrated for a month and call it quits, spend 4 more months researching, and then will ultimately realize the truth of Universal Truisms 1 and 4 and will buy the set he believes to be the best available at the time for his needs, based upon a thorough analysis of all then then-available information. He will then be as happy (or nearly as happy) as Joe Six-Pack from Universal Truism 3, only he will have the satisfaction of "knowing" he made the "right" decision.

Moral of the Truisms: The only difference between the agony you are putting yourself through and the Joe Six-Pack approach is that you will feel satisfied that what you ended up doing was the "right" thing based on all the available information. Is all of that trouble worth that relatively minor difference? Unquestionably, yes.

/pep talk 2

--Mav

[greenland]

SD is half baked;(can you say interlaced) that is why I am going to stick with shadow puppet entertainment for the next half century. I went through all this before when people tried to persuade me to upgrade to that half baked display known as Etch A Sketch. No thank you, I am going to stick with tried and true caveman era shadow casting.

[Jigen]

Originally Posted by LT9000

It seems to me that HDTV's won't be adequately perfected (not perfect) for at least another 2 to 3 years.

No such thing as perfection though. It's not humanly possible.

[andy sullivan]

There are many really good products out there. You must remember that what you read here and in pro reviews are nit picking to the highest degree. If you look at the higher rated products from any technology, in someones home environment, reasonably set up PQ wise, you will see magnificent picture and a very very happy owner. SD really blows but there is so much HD content available now that for most it's a non factor. With prices where they are right now I would tell anyone to jump in and enjoy and have yourself a wonderful experience.

[greenland]

This forum is the emergency room for injured displays, and techno-condriacs.(Not a real word, I just coined it.)

Forming your impressions on the general health of the entire HDTV population from what you find on this site, is the same as scouring the emergency room at the local general hospital, and concluding, from what you observe, that there must be no healthy people on the planet!

[GeorgeAB]

This forum is the emergency room for injured displays, and techno-condriacs.(Not a real word, I just coined it.) Forming your impressions on the general health of the entire HDTV population from what you find on this site, is the same as scouring the emergency room at the local general hospital, and concluding, from what you observe, that there must be no healthy people on the planet!

Cute! Also apt.

[swimmer_sf]

I agree with much of your sentiment LT9000, and am waiting at least until after the new year to see where prices go (as the NY Times has recommended consumers do). Despite what the true believers say here, I think you're right to say that when you pay multiple thousands of dollars you should be getting a product that doesn't have major issues, which the posters above white-wash. Let's not be naive--technology is big, big business, and the hype draws people in. Just compare how these displays are presented at your typical Best Buy with how regular CRT's were displayed 10 years ago. Nowadays you get slow-moving (to hide motion blur), super-color-saturated scenes of nature to make you feel like you'll be "transported" when you watch your HDTV. But guess what: when you get it home you'll be watching the same old crap (at least that's what I think of much of the content available) that you watch on your SDTV. Of course, if retailers (hypers) just showed regular TV programming on models that are offered for sale, like in the "old days" (10 years ago), you wouldn't be hooked in with the subliminal, emotional "wow factor." You'd look at say to yourself, "wow, look how big that toilet-paper commercial is. I wonder if I need any toilet paper?" That the manufacturers and retailers have folks spinning in circles over these displays is readily apparent when you read the hyper-emotional posts on this website over what technology is better, whether you need 1080p, whether 120hz makes it "feel like you're looking through a window," blah, blah, blah, etc. Did people ever foam at the mouth like that over VCR's and CRT's? Not that I remember. And I think much of that is from the marketing of these products, not simply because they are bigger and sharper.

Remember, this is business, and the goal here is to take money from you, and as much of that money as possible. On that subject, here's an interesting little blurb regarding legal/technological developments that no one seems to talk about:

Liquid Crystal Displays - In February 2007, Green Welling LLP filed a class action lawsuit in United States District Court on behalf of persons or entities who purchased Liquid Crystal Displays ("LCD") indirectly from the world’s leading LCD manufacturers, including: LG Philips, Samsung, Sharp Electronics, Toshiba, Hitachi, Sanyo Epson, NEC, IDT, AU Optronics, Chi Mei Optronics, Chunghwa Picture Tubes, and Hannstar Display. Plaintiffs allege that, in violation of federal and state antitrust and state consumer protection laws, Defendants colluded among themselves and certain co-conspirators to fix the price of LCDs sold in the United States at supracompetitive prices. As a result of this allegedly unlawful conduct, Plaintiffs allege they paid artificially high prices for LCDs.

So, don't believe the hype, trust your gut, be business-like about your decision, and treat this like buying any other major appliance.

[penngray]

Im happy to own a 42" Westy 1080p, Maxent 50" plasma, Vizio 37" LCD, Panny 50" Plasma, JVC 61" 1080p and AU900 panny 720p 102" screen.

Im happy to report that myself, family and hundreds of people love HD on all my equipment. I host football games, etc all the time here in florida. Im so happy I dont know of a peron with the problems the OP has. Im sorry about your OCD

As for my eyesight? Its Airline Pilot rated (I passed those tests easily)

As for the market not producing great TVs, well those who complain like this are not the customer companies want to produce products for anyways. Its for the average person who just loves to watch great TV in HD, good thing 99% of the public doesnt care about the rants I read in these sections too much.

I'd love it if someone could show me the error of my ways, but I'm pretty discouraged right now.

Drugs...lots of drugs

btw, great post Greenland!!

[Maverickster2]

Originally Posted by swimmer_sf

I agree with much of your sentiment LT9000, and am waiting at least until after the new year to see where prices go (as the NY Times has recommended consumers do). Despite what the true believers say here, I think you're right to say that when you pay multiple thousands of dollars you should be getting a product that doesn't have major issues, which the posters above white-wash. Let's not be naive--technology is big, big business, and the hype draws people in. Just compare how these displays are presented at your typical Best Buy with how regular CRT's were displayed 10 years ago. Nowadays you get slow-moving (to hide motion blur), super-color-saturated scenes of nature to make you feel like you'll be "transported" when you watch your HDTV. But guess what: when you get it home you'll be watching the same old crap (at least that's what I think of much of the content available) that you watch on your SDTV. Of course, if retailers (hypers) just showed regular TV programming on models that are offered for sale, like in the "old days" (10 years ago), you wouldn't be hooked in with the subliminal, emotional "wow factor." You'd look at say to yourself, "wow, look how big that toilet-paper commercial is. I wonder if I need any toilet paper?" That the manufacturers and retailers have folks spinning in circles over these displays is readily apparent when you read the hyper-emotional posts on this website over what technology is better, whether you need 1080p, whether 120hz makes it "feel like you're looking through a window," blah, blah, blah, etc. Did people ever foam at the mouth like that over VCR's and CRT's? Not that I remember. And I think much of that is from the marketing of these products, not simply because they are bigger and sharper.

Remember, this is business, and the goal here is to take money from you, and as much of that money as possible. On that subject, here's an interesting little blurb regarding legal/technological developments that no one seems to talk about:

Liquid Crystal Displays - In February 2007, Green Welling LLP filed a class action lawsuit in United States District Court on behalf of persons or entities who purchased Liquid Crystal Displays ("LCD") indirectly from the world’s leading LCD manufacturers, including: LG Philips, Samsung, Sharp Electronics, Toshiba, Hitachi, Sanyo Epson, NEC, IDT, AU Optronics, Chi Mei Optronics, Chunghwa Picture Tubes, and Hannstar Display. Plaintiffs allege that, in violation of federal and state antitrust and state consumer protection laws, Defendants colluded among themselves and certain co-conspirators to fix the price of LCDs sold in the United States at supracompetitive prices. As a result of this allegedly unlawful conduct, Plaintiffs allege they paid artificially high prices for LCDs.

So, don't believe the hype, trust your gut, be business-like about your decision, and treat this like buying any other major appliance.

I beg to differ with your characterization of our comments as a whitewash of the issues. Every display has issues, every display in 2-3 years will have issues (albeit different issues than the current ones), every display 4-6 years from now will have issues (albeit different issues than the current ones), and so on. That's the nature of the beast. There is no perfect display or perfect technology for every conceivable type of content and viewing environment. Some of this is a product of the infrastructure that will get better over time (the only true 1080p content out there is HD/BR discs; and most HDTV programming is poorly-executed or upscaled SD content from network sources who don't quite know what they're doing yet and/or don't quite have the equipment to do it yet), but a lot of it is just the nature of the technology. To not buy something because something better will come along is pretty ridiculous -- particularly, in a technology-driven industry where something better will always be coming along. The only think that perspective accomplishes is to ensure that you will never buy one.

Finally, remember, most of us here have no skin in this game one way or another. We are mostly technology-loving folks who REALLY enjoy our HD sets and our HDTV experience and are genuinely supportive of one another and "newbies" who come here looking for advice.

--Mav

P.S. Class action anti-trust litigation in this country is hardly something to get excited about. The filing of a complaint bears no relationship to its merits.

P.P.S. If done properly, 9 times out of 10 the viewing experience will be MUCH better at home with a given set than it is in the store, so it's not quite the little bait and switch you make it out to be.

[GeorgeAB]

I agree with much of your sentiment LT9000, and am waiting at least until after the new year to see where prices go (as the NY Times has recommended consumers do). Despite what the true believers say here, I think you're right to say that when you pay multiple thousands of dollars you should be getting a product that doesn't have major issues, which the posters above white-wash. Let's not be naive--technology is big, big business, and the hype draws people in. Just compare how these displays are presented at your typical Best Buy with how regular CRT's were displayed 10 years ago. Nowadays you get slow-moving (to hide motion blur), super-color-saturated scenes of nature to make you feel like you'll be "transported" when you watch your HDTV. But guess what: when you get it home you'll be watching the same old crap (at least that's what I think of much of the content available) that you watch on your SDTV. Of course, if retailers (hypers) just showed regular TV programming on models that are offered for sale, like in the "old days" (10 years ago), you wouldn't be hooked in with the subliminal, emotional "wow factor." You'd look at say to yourself, "wow, look how big that toilet-paper commercial is. I wonder if I need any toilet paper?" That the manufacturers and retailers have folks spinning in circles over these displays is readily apparent when you read the hyper-emotional posts on this website over what technology is better, whether you need 1080p, whether 120hz makes it "feel like you're looking through a window," blah, blah, blah, etc. Did people ever foam at the mouth like that over VCR's and CRT's? Not that I remember. And I think much of that is from the marketing of these products, not simply because they are bigger and sharper.

Remember, this is business, and the goal here is to take money from you, and as much of that money as possible. On that subject, here's an interesting little blurb regarding legal/technological developments that no one seems to talk about:

Liquid Crystal Displays - In February 2007, Green Welling LLP filed a class action lawsuit in United States District Court on behalf of persons or entities who purchased Liquid Crystal Displays ("LCD") indirectly from the world’s leading LCD manufacturers, including: LG Philips, Samsung, Sharp Electronics, Toshiba, Hitachi, Sanyo Epson, NEC, IDT, AU Optronics, Chi Mei Optronics, Chunghwa Picture Tubes, and Hannstar Display. Plaintiffs allege that, in violation of federal and state antitrust and state consumer protection laws, Defendants colluded among themselves and certain co-conspirators to fix the price of LCDs sold in the United States at supracompetitive prices. As a result of this allegedly unlawful conduct, Plaintiffs allege they paid artificially high prices for LCDs.

So, don't believe the hype, trust your gut, be business-like about your decision, and treat this like buying any other major appliance.

Oh, woe is me! If they're all not out to get me, I'm sure they soon will be.

[notreally]

Mr 9000,you studied far to long. Rear projection (with real color guns are no longer manufactured). Great HD and with 50 channels and a recorder, who needs SD.

[LT9000]

Originally Posted by penngray

Im happy to own a 42" Westy 1080p, Maxent 50" plasma, Vizio 37" LCD, Panny 50" Plasma, JVC 61" 1080p and AU900 panny 720p 102" screen.

Let's see, so you've spent easily several thousand dollars on HDTV's. Could it be that some of your hostility towards me stems from the fact that you feel like a dumb-ass for spending that much on mediocre technology?

Bear in mind that not all of us are over-paid union pilots with money falling out their pockets.

[LT9000]

Originally Posted by Maverickster2

This has been said many times before by many different people on this board in many different contexts, but I think it bears repeating here.

Universal Truism 1: The products coming out 2-3 years from now will be better than the products out today, but not as good as the products coming out 2-3 years from then.

Universal Truism 2: There is such a thing as paralysis by analysis, and it is endemic amongst the analytical-types who feel the need to research the ever-living-snot out of every purchase they make (a sentiment which is only heightened when there is a multi-thousand dollar, technology-oriented purchase at issue). These are the types of folks that decide, "hey, I'm going to get an HDTV, maybe I should start researching it", and eventually end up here at AVS, get information overload, and get frustrated at least once. I would venture a guess that somewhere between 99.999997% and 99.999999% of AVS Members are such a person.

Universal Truism 3: Joe Six-Pack who uses his aol account for his email, has never even heard of AVS, and walks into Best Buy to pick out the best one by spending 20 minutes glancing at the 40 sets on the wall WILL, in no uncertain terms, be happy with his decision -- uninformed though it may be.

Universal Truism 4: One cannot begin to enjoy HDTV until one owns an HDTV.

Universal Truism 5: The character described in Universal Truism 2 will spend 2 months researching, get frustrated for a month and call it quits, spend 4 more months researching, and then will ultimately realize the truth of Universal Truisms 1 and 4 and will buy the set he believes to be the best available at the time for his needs, based upon a thorough analysis of all then then-available information. He will then be as happy (or nearly as happy) as Joe Six-Pack from Universal Truism 3, only he will have the satisfaction of "knowing" he made the "right" decision.

Moral of the Truisms: The only difference between the agony you are putting yourself through and the Joe Six-Pack approach is that you will feel satisfied that what you ended up doing was the "right" thing based on all the available information. Is all of that trouble worth that relatively minor difference? Unquestionably, yes.

/pep talk 2

--Mav

Most of your truisms are basically "no-brainers" anyone would agree with, except for your moral which is untrue. Joe sixpack may well buy a POS and have to live with it, or have to mess with repairs/exchanges. I have a much better chance of avoiding that by learning first, or even waiting.

[LT9000]

Originally Posted by Sceptic

Ok, pep talk time!

I would advise that you look only at well calibrated 1080p plasmas, including but not limited to Panasonic's 50PZ700/750U, Samsung's 5084, or Pioneer's 5010.

None of these panels will fall within a 1k budget, but for a little more than 2x that (for the cheaper models among the three anyways), you will find your excellent picture quality.

I assure you, there's nothing grey about the whites on these sets. In my experience, they are bright enough to be painful without proper bias lighting - and my Pany 700U is definitely the least bright of the above mentioned sets.

10 minutes into your first blueray/hd dvd disk, and I have no doubt that you will be wondering why you didn't buy an HD set 6 months ago. The picture quality is simply stunning...

Yes, an HD set will reveal certain flaws in your SD signal, in the same way that the world looks less ugly (but more blurry) when you walk around without your glasses on. But some SD channels look surprisingly sharp - especially if you watch in SD's proper aspect ratio.

Prices will drop and better sets will come out, but there really are already some good options out there

Thanks for your input Sceptic (and everyone who attempted constructive input.) I came within an inch of buying a Panny plasma last week, but didn't b/c the PQ appeared dim/dull. Maybe if I get one home without all of that bright store lighting it will be a non-issue. Plasma still seems to have the fewest issues of any display tech so far.

[gcrissman]

Originally Posted by LT9000

Let's see, so you've spent easily several thousand dollars on HDTV's. Could it be that some of your hostility towards me stems from the fact that you feel like a dumb-ass for spending that much on mediocre technology?

Bear in mind that not all of us are over-paid union pilots with money falling out their pockets.

Wow, thats a little harsh.

I do agree with the theme of the post here, you will never get the latest and greatest as there will be something new down the road. There is a downside to everything. Same way with cars, do you not buy a new car even though a new model year is coming out? or a better used car may be available in 10 days?

I didn't buy the Sharp 52" 1080p LCD last year because of the banding issue but 3 of my friends did and I kick myself for not pulling the trigger as they have no issues. My wife got so sick of me going back and forth on a new TV for the last 18 months she wouldn't go near the TV section of any store we went to. Meanwhile here I was still watching HD TV (football) on a 32" Samsung LCD. All my friends and neighbors couldn't beleive that it what I had as I am the guy with the latest and greatest everything (yes I get paid way too much $$ to analyze data for the govt. that may be my problem!) I have 4 26" LCD in my game on a HD distro but yet I couldn't pull the trigger on a 52" plasma/LCD purchase as I found issue with each one looked at. Meanwhile I did no research the the LCD purchase, just found the best deal and bought them.

I picked up the Samsung 50" 1080p plasma on monday and I don't know how I lived without it. The Blu-Ray player purchase is next after I mount the TV and buy the bias light from GeorgeAB

Just find what is best for your needs, buy it, and enjoy the purchase

G/L

[LT9000]

Originally Posted by greenland

This forum is the emergency room for injured displays, and techno-condriacs.(Not a real word, I just coined it.)

Forming your impressions on the general health of the entire HDTV population from what you find on this site, is the same as scouring the emergency room at the local general hospital, and concluding, from what you observe, that there must be no healthy people on the planet!

That's a good point. My tech friend just reminded me of this too: ("alot of the people that go there are having trouble with their sets.") But I still think most HDTV products aren't perfected just yet.

BTW, by "perfected" I don't really mean perfect. I mean a product relatively free of major bugs and defects for the end consumer. That's not what many folks are getting right now.

[LT9000]

Originally Posted by gcrissman

Wow, thats a little harsh.

Did you read the part where he said I have "OCD" and need "lots of drugs?"

[Elemental1]

Just get the best mainstream panel(s) out there at the moment..a Kuro Pioneer plasma and be done with it.
Take a look at the Kuro photo thread and be amazed. Forget about LCD and the others. Your prize awaits.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post11849241

[bananfish]

When the Wright Brothers got their first plane in the air, was that "mediocre technology"? The Kitty Hawk technology pales in comparison to anything flying today, but it was still unbelievably fanfreakintastic technology.

And while we're at it, are today's planes "mediocre technology"? They're still affected by wind shear and other phenomena such that passengers may experience turbulence. And they can't always take off in icy weather. And one out of every couple hundred thousand flights crashes. There are undoubtedly advancements to come.

The point is that technology is *always* relative. What came before wasn't as good, and what comes after is better. So it's not clear why you are so down on today's technology - there's never been anything better.

And the issues you listed are almost universally overblown - they're either minor, non-existent or largely things of the past. HDTVs look pretty darn fantastic.

Will they get better? Everybody on this site who loves their current HDTV hopes so, so they can enjoy even better technology in the future.

So lighten up Francis! And enjoy a new HDTV while you're at it.

[Kingcarcas]

I was thinking the same, now i want the TV ^^ that guy just posted

[LT9000]

Originally Posted by bananfish

When the Wright Brothers got their first plane in the air, was that "mediocre technology"? The Kitty Hawk technology pales in comparison to anything flying today, but it was still unbelievably fanfreakintastic technology.

And while we're at it, are today's planes "mediocre technology"? They're still affected by wind shear and other phenomena such that passengers may experience turbulence. And they can't always take off in icy weather. And one out of every couple hundred thousand flights crashes. There are undoubtedly advancements to come.

The point is that technology is *always* relative. What came before wasn't as good, and what comes after is better. So it's not clear why you are so down on today's technology - there's never been anything better.

And the issues you listed are almost universally overblown - they're either minor, non-existent or largely things of the past. HDTVs look pretty darn fantastic.

Will they get better? Everybody on this site who loves their current HDTV hopes so, so they can enjoy even better technology in the future.

So lighten up Francis! And enjoy a new HDTV while you're at it.

Would you have bought the Wright brothers plane and expected to enjoy it? I doubt it.

[LT9000]

Originally Posted by Elemental1

Just get the best mainstream panel(s) out there at the moment..a Kuro Pioneer plasma and be done with it.
Take a look at the Kuro photo thread and be amazed. Forget about LCD and the others. Your prize awaits.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post11849241

I guess, but I'm thinking of just getting a good value in a PX 700 series Panna plasma if I pull the trigger. I couldn't tell a great difference in the 720p vs 1080p unless I got real close in the store. From several ft away in a 50 inch, I bet the difference would be very subtle.

[swimmer_sf]

I just read the above post by Elemental and burst out laughing at "Forget about LCD and the others. Your prize awaits." I don't doubt your sincerety, and you're clearly self-confident, but there are very well-informed people who say just the opposite. I guess they are all wrong?

The reason I used the term white-washing above is that I can't think of another instance in which serious issues are raised as to a product's ability to perform even the basic functions for which it is intended (see HD Guru's brand-new resolution-test article), and then massive amounts of time and energy are spent by proponents to explain why those issues don't really matter. I don't think I've ever heard so often in the context of considering a major purchase the phrase "well nothing's perfect."

What is really going on is that the manufacturers and retailers believe that a majority of the population will replace their television sets within the next 10 years, and they are fighting it out now to see who will dominate that market when it really picks up steam. The strategy is to release beta ("well, nothing's perfect") versions of products and try to build loyalty among the early adopters to whom the later purchasers will look for help in making purchasing decisions. (Who's to say that some posters on here are not, in fact, paid by manufacturers to advocate a particular model, e.g., Pioneer Kuros.) This process will winnow down the field to a few major contenders who will then control the market. At that point, the product will be more standardized (see, e.g., home computers) and I would be surprised to hear anyone say "well, nothing's perfect." We're just not there yet.

[bananfish]

Originally Posted by LT9000

Would you have bought the Wright brothers plane and expected to enjoy it? I doubt it.

Does somebody need a hug? <scratches behind LT9000's ears> Who's a grumpy boy? <Tickles LT9000> Who's a grumpy boy? <Pat on LT9000's head> Come oooooooon now, turn that frown upside down!

[penngray]

Let's see, so you've spent easily several thousand dollars on HDTV's. Could it be that some of your hostility towards me stems from the fact that you feel like a dumb-ass for spending that much on mediocre technology?

Bear in mind that not all of us are over-paid union pilots with money falling out their pockets.

lol, Just was speaking about my eyesight qualifications because people love to post about others not having good eyesight.

Im not a pilot, I do software for a living and lots of DIY stuff but only enough so I can golf more or post mindless stuff on here

Wasting money?? lets see....

$2000 for a panny 50" LAST CHRISTMAS, 61" JVC 1080p then too for $2400...two HUGE deals.

The Westy 1080p 42" LCD is a free replacement for my first LCD 37" westy three years ago. Good thing I had purchased the warranty

The Vizio 37" was $650 and the Maxent was my best steal yet....$850 open box at best buy 1 month ago!!

so thats about $7K in TVs.....not a big deal but I have lots of rooms that need them.

You dont like anything out there? That is your problem NO MINE OR ANY MANUFACTURER. I feel for you I really do, you cant enjoy the content (HD sports, HD movies, HD Heroes and House on TV).

ALL These TVs are awesome, compare them to the average household TV and you have a huge improvement. If you are splitting hairs like what happens here I hate to see how some of you live in the real world.


You asked if it was you and I said yes, you posted a simply insane opinion, did you really expect any other sort of response?

Does my post help at all? nope, of course not but its as silly as this thread period. I hope ZERO manufacturers listen to people like you, nothing will ever get created if we try to go your route. Most of us just like things to work and look good. We are the ones spending the money too so who really matters??

I love my TVs, I can sit in my pool and watch football on a 50" plasma....now that rocks.

[LT9000]

Originally Posted by penngray

lol, Just was speaking about my eyesight qualifications because people love to post about others not having good eyesight.

Im not a pilot, I do software for a living and lots of DIY stuff but only enough so I can golf more or post mindless stuff on here

Wasting money?? lets see....

$2000 for a panny 50" LAST CHRISTMAS, 61" JVC 1080p then too for $2400...two HUGE deals.

The Westy 1080p 42" LCD is a free replacement for my first LCD 37" westy three years ago. Good thing I had purchased the warranty

The Vizio 37" was $650 and the Maxent was my best steal yet....$850 open box at best buy 1 month ago!!

so thats about $7K in TVs.....not a big deal but I have lots of rooms that need them.

You dont like anything out there? That is your problem NO MINE OR ANY MANUFACTURER. I feel for you I really do, you cant enjoy the content (HD sports, HD movies, HD Heroes and House on TV).

ALL These TVs are awesome, compare them to the average household TV and you have a huge improvement. If you are splitting hairs like what happens here I hate to see how some of you live in the real world.


You asked if it was you and I said yes, you posted a simply insane opinion, did you really expect any other sort of response?

Does my post help at all? nope, of course not but its as silly as this thread period. I hope ZERO manufacturers listen to people like you, nothing will ever get created if we try to go your route. Most of us just like things to work and look good. We are the ones spending the money too so who really matters??

I love my TVs, I can sit in my pool and watch football on a 50" plasma....now that rocks.

OK Rockefeller.

BTW if this thread is so "silly" why are you bumping it by posting in it - even editing your last post? Don't you have some HDTV to watch?

P.S. If you don't want to make any bad blood, don't tell people they have "OCD" and need "lots of drugs" just because you disagree with them. Most folks will find that offensive.