vc-1 stutter under vista with 8500gt, do I need 2400?

wilsonj · 10-29-07, 04:29 PM

Hi,

I have been using an 8500 card with an AMD skt 939 3800+ x2 cpu to play blu-ray no probs. I recently put in a dual format LG drive and tried playing "the good shepherd" and "the Italian job" HD, both vc-1 encoded. Both stutter very badly, and show my cpu is being pegged!!!

But vc-1 seems to be somewhat helped by the card on blu-ray, as it stopped my cpu from being pegged when I swapped out an older 7600 card.

So what gives? Do I need to get an HD2400 card to enjoy both HD and blu-ray????

bully666 · 10-29-07, 04:49 PM

I doubt it, I just watched Transofmers and everythng was perfect.

my system:

P4 3.2 ghz
1024MB ram
audigy 2 ZS
8500GT

Vista ultimate

Perhaps you should update drivers od powerDVD versions...

wilsonj · 10-29-07, 05:43 PM

odd. What version of pdvd do you have? I am using 3104a

sarah99 · 10-29-07, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilsonj

Do I need to get an HD2400 card to enjoy both HD and blu-ray????

These aren't very good, get a 2600

wilsonj · 10-29-07, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarah99

These aren't very good, get a 2600

Really!!?? I thought they both had the same video decoding capabilities. The only advantage I see for the 2600 is mild gaming, which will never be done on this htpc.

Plus there are very few passive 2600s, at least that don't have a heatsink on both sides of the board.

bully666 · 10-29-07, 08:26 PM

I have the same PowerDVD version, and the latest official nvidia drivers.

But then again...I had to reinstall my VISTA, because it was very slow. Now its a lot better!

wilsonj · 10-29-07, 08:49 PM

I'm also using the latest nvida drivers, as of last night. Not betas btw.

bully666 what is your cpu usage while watcing vc-1?

bully666 · 10-29-07, 09:00 PM

40 to 60% with transformers.

Havent really tested any others yet....

wilsonj · 10-29-07, 09:02 PM

btw during playback the vc-1 bitrate on "the good shepherd" spikes upwards to 100mbps! but is often around 30-50. That seems high.... and would explain why my cpu is struggling.

From the research it appears the 2400/2600 are better options than the 8500/8600 for vc-1 titles.

bully666 · 10-29-07, 09:07 PM

If the mbps gets so high, that is your reason. That will make any cpu struggle!

The question is why this happens.

Try the transformers, or king kong

baytoLA · 10-29-07, 09:09 PM

Transformers is AVC MPEG-4.

jpconard · 10-29-07, 09:09 PM

I'm interested as well, as my two systems are x2 3800 and x2 4200 and I'm wanting that LG drive. What I've been reading is maybe a newer card 8800GT is coming which is better than anything else currently (by a large margin). Also heard a new ATI card coming with similar performance. Maybe you should look into those.

Does Vista add anything on this type of setup (versus XP MCE)?

bully666 · 10-29-07, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baytoLA

Transformers is AVC MPEG-4.

Oh...sorry then, I totaly forgot to check this, since the movie is on HD DVD.

I will check king kong tomorrow then.

wilsonj · 10-29-07, 10:11 PM

Unfortunately I don't have kingkong or transformers to try.

I also don't want a big hot loud card for my htpc, so any of the upper tier cards won't be suitable.

I'm tempted to just buy a cheaper HD2400 and give it a try.

I'll also check the bitrate of Casino Royale on BD. That is vc-1 and plays fine. Actually cpu rarely goes above 35%.

akula-class · 10-30-07, 12:06 AM

8500 GT does not do VC-1 hardware decode, hence the reason you're seeing the high CPU utilization and stutter.

the HD 2400 does not have the same issue as it does hardware decode of both H.264 and VC-1.

wilsonj · 10-30-07, 12:15 AM

ok, not sure what the problem is now. The bitrate in casino royale is about 30mbps. CPU usage is around 30%. The good shepherd averages around 20mbps, but has spikes of up to 170!! but even at 13-20mbps the cpu is pegged at 100%. Must be a HD-DVD thing!?????

tsb · 10-30-07, 12:44 AM

something is obviously being mistreported since HD DVD only has about 31mbps max bandwidth w/o overhead.

sarah99 · 10-30-07, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilsonj

Really!!?? I thought they both had the same video decoding capabilities. The only advantage I see for the 2600 is mild gaming, which will never be done on this htpc.

Plus there are very few passive 2600s, at least that don't have a heatsink on both sides of the board.

The hardware on the 2400s seems to be prone to faults, these faults are not reported on the 2600s. I have a 2400 and it is completely useless for playing video, I wouldn't buy another.

bully666 · 10-30-07, 05:52 AM

Perhaps the problem is with the media itself, since you dont play it directly from HDD.

Try to rip it and run it from HDD.

wilsonj · 10-30-07, 06:42 AM

bully666 I tried that also. No difference.

bully666 · 10-30-07, 07:04 AM

HM...try to find another movie that does not work for you, and I will see how it looks for me, the good shepherd and italian job I already watched

wilsonj · 10-30-07, 07:06 AM

I've ordered a cheap 2400pro to compare. I'll post back later in the week to let all know the results.

erikejw · 10-30-07, 12:28 PM

Go with a 2600 card.
Both 8500 and 2400 it to0 weak for perfect playback.

Some of the hardware playback is done in the pixel pipelines and they are just too weak in those cards.

wilsonj · 10-30-07, 03:41 PM

But the 2400 and 2600 have the same number of pipelines. I'm having a hard time finding any real doucmented differences. But the one table I found stated that the clock rate was the only difference.

Anyone have a link to actual harware differences?

kapone · 10-30-07, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilsonj

But the 2400 and 2600 have the same number of pipelines. I'm having a hard time finding any real doucmented differences. But the one table I found stated that the clock rate was the only difference.

Anyone have a link to actual harware differences?

Nope. The 2600 has 3 times the stream processors (no more pipelines).

Quote:

Model
Brand SAPPHIRE
Model 100203L
Interface
Interface PCI Express x16
Chipset
Chipset Manufacturer ATI
GPU Radeon HD 2400PRO
Stream Processors 40 Stream Processor Units

Quote:

Model
Brand SAPPHIRE
Model 100208L
Interface
Interface PCI Express x16
Chipset
Chipset Manufacturer ATI
GPU Radeon HD 2600XT
Stream Processors 120 stream processing units

wilsonj · 10-30-07, 04:52 PM

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/...sk1-page2.html

http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/...hdplayback.php

Interesting articles

wilsonj · 10-30-07, 04:54 PM

kapone, yeah saw that after I posted. Actually I remember I was comparing the 2400pro to the xt version. My mistake.

I still don't understand how stream processors relates to UVD performance of the cards. Not saying it doesn't, I just haven't found definative tests any where.

Nimo · 10-30-07, 06:05 PM

Transformers on Xp X2 3800 using my Diamond 7600GT I get 45/50% cpu usage playing VC-1 like The Departed I get under 30%. That card you have is still a good card I won't budge for a while until I get some feed back on the 8800GT I'm just waiting for the HDMI version.

IanD · 10-30-07, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilsonj

I still don't understand how stream processors relates to UVD performance of the cards. Not saying it doesn't, I just haven't found definative tests any where.

I may be mistaken, but I suspect the stream processors are used for setup and auxilliary items if the UVD is occupied with a movie proper. The evidence for this is that when experimenting with a 2400Pro, I noticed a >50% CPU spike when transitioning between titles via the menu: once a title actually started playing, CPU load dropped to less than 10%.

I'm not sure if IME and a movie can be handled by UVD: possibly the UVD handles the movie and IME by the stream processors, since it isn't as high a load.

I haven't seen this officially explained anywhere, but it might explain some issues playing movies with lower powered CPUs: they get bogged down with setup, but once the actual file is piped through the UVD, then the decoding is handled by the GPU and it's smooth.

wilsonj · 10-30-07, 07:59 PM

IanD, makes sense to me. Prob something I can live with for now though, provided the MOVIE plays smoothly. Its a fair trade off for a low power, quiet card. Anyway I will know more tomorrow when the card arrives.

Nimo, I can't get much to work under XP with an 8500gt, due to drivers. Surprised you are haveing so much success!

10-29-07, 04:29 PM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
wilsonj Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 299	vc-1 stutter under vista with 8500gt, do I need 2400? Hi, I have been using an 8500 card with an AMD skt 939 3800+ x2 cpu to play blu-ray no probs. I recently put in a dual format LG drive and tried playing "the good shepherd" and "the Italian job" HD, both vc-1 encoded. Both stutter very badly, and show my cpu is being pegged!!! But vc-1 seems to be somewhat helped by the card on blu-ray, as it stopped my cpu from being pegged when I swapped out an older 7600 card. So what gives? Do I need to get an HD2400 card to enjoy both HD and blu-ray????

10-29-07, 09:07 PM	#10 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
bully666 Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 51	If the mbps gets so high, that is your reason. That will make any cpu struggle! The question is why this happens. Try the transformers, or king kong

10-30-07, 12:06 AM	#15 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
akula-class Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 22	8500 GT does not do VC-1 hardware decode, hence the reason you're seeing the high CPU utilization and stutter. the HD 2400 does not have the same issue as it does hardware decode of both H.264 and VC-1.

10-30-07, 12:44 AM	#17 \| Link
tsb AVS Special Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,787	something is obviously being mistreported since HD DVD only has about 31mbps max bandwidth w/o overhead. __________________ 1461 Days of Night A Dark Night Indeed. Ted Kennedy Receives Presidential Medal of Freedom.

10-30-07, 07:59 PM	#30 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
wilsonj Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 299	IanD, makes sense to me. Prob something I can live with for now though, provided the MOVIE plays smoothly. Its a fair trade off for a low power, quiet card. Anyway I will know more tomorrow when the card arrives. Nimo, I can't get much to work under XP with an 8500gt, due to drivers. Surprised you are haveing so much success!

10-29-07, 04:49 PM	#2 \| Link
bully666 Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 51	I doubt it, I just watched Transofmers and everythng was perfect. my system: P4 3.2 ghz 1024MB ram audigy 2 ZS 8500GT Vista ultimate Perhaps you should update drivers od powerDVD versions...

10-29-07, 05:43 PM	#3 \| Link
wilsonj Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 299	odd. What version of pdvd do you have? I am using 3104a

10-29-07, 08:26 PM	#6 \| Link
bully666 Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 51	I have the same PowerDVD version, and the latest official nvidia drivers. But then again...I had to reinstall my VISTA, because it was very slow. Now its a lot better!

10-29-07, 08:49 PM	#7 \| Link
wilsonj Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 299	I'm also using the latest nvida drivers, as of last night. Not betas btw. bully666 what is your cpu usage while watcing vc-1?

10-29-07, 09:00 PM	#8 \| Link
bully666 Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 51	40 to 60% with transformers. Havent really tested any others yet....

10-29-07, 09:02 PM	#9 \| Link
wilsonj Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 299	btw during playback the vc-1 bitrate on "the good shepherd" spikes upwards to 100mbps! but is often around 30-50. That seems high.... and would explain why my cpu is struggling. From the research it appears the 2400/2600 are better options than the 8500/8600 for vc-1 titles.

10-29-07, 09:09 PM	#11 \| Link
baytoLA Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 56	Transformers is AVC MPEG-4.

10-29-07, 09:09 PM	#12 \| Link
jpconard Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 408	I'm interested as well, as my two systems are x2 3800 and x2 4200 and I'm wanting that LG drive. What I've been reading is maybe a newer card 8800GT is coming which is better than anything else currently (by a large margin). Also heard a new ATI card coming with similar performance. Maybe you should look into those. Does Vista add anything on this type of setup (versus XP MCE)?

10-29-07, 10:11 PM	#14 \| Link
wilsonj Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 299	Unfortunately I don't have kingkong or transformers to try. I also don't want a big hot loud card for my htpc, so any of the upper tier cards won't be suitable. I'm tempted to just buy a cheaper HD2400 and give it a try. I'll also check the bitrate of Casino Royale on BD. That is vc-1 and plays fine. Actually cpu rarely goes above 35%.

10-30-07, 12:15 AM	#16 \| Link
wilsonj Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 299	ok, not sure what the problem is now. The bitrate in casino royale is about 30mbps. CPU usage is around 30%. The good shepherd averages around 20mbps, but has spikes of up to 170!! but even at 13-20mbps the cpu is pegged at 100%. Must be a HD-DVD thing!?????

10-30-07, 05:52 AM	#19 \| Link
bully666 Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 51	Perhaps the problem is with the media itself, since you dont play it directly from HDD. Try to rip it and run it from HDD.

10-30-07, 06:42 AM	#20 \| Link
wilsonj Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 299	bully666 I tried that also. No difference.

10-30-07, 07:04 AM	#21 \| Link
bully666 Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 51	HM...try to find another movie that does not work for you, and I will see how it looks for me, the good shepherd and italian job I already watched

10-30-07, 07:06 AM	#22 \| Link
wilsonj Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 299	I've ordered a cheap 2400pro to compare. I'll post back later in the week to let all know the results.

10-30-07, 12:28 PM	#23 \| Link
erikejw Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 16	Go with a 2600 card. Both 8500 and 2400 it to0 weak for perfect playback. Some of the hardware playback is done in the pixel pipelines and they are just too weak in those cards.

10-30-07, 03:41 PM	#24 \| Link
wilsonj Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 299	But the 2400 and 2600 have the same number of pipelines. I'm having a hard time finding any real doucmented differences. But the one table I found stated that the clock rate was the only difference. Anyone have a link to actual harware differences?

10-30-07, 04:52 PM	#26 \| Link
wilsonj Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 299	http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/...sk1-page2.html http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/...hdplayback.php Interesting articles

10-30-07, 04:54 PM	#27 \| Link
wilsonj Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 299	kapone, yeah saw that after I posted. Actually I remember I was comparing the 2400pro to the xt version. My mistake. I still don't understand how stream processors relates to UVD performance of the cards. Not saying it doesn't, I just haven't found definative tests any where.

10-30-07, 06:05 PM	#28 \| Link
Nimo AVS Special Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,505	Transformers on Xp X2 3800 using my Diamond 7600GT I get 45/50% cpu usage playing VC-1 like The Departed I get under 30%. That card you have is still a good card I won't budge for a while until I get some feed back on the 8800GT I'm just waiting for the HDMI version.