1:1 pixel matching

[Active Speaker]

What is this? Do any of the 58" or 60" sets do this?

[creemail]

By definition:

"1:1 Pixel mapping refers to the property that a HDTV is capable of displaying a digital signal transmitted at its native resolution without scaling the image."

Chris

[Active Speaker]

Thanks, so it has no effect if you are not using a computer, correct?

[gr689]

Originally Posted by Active Speaker

Thanks, so it has no effect if you are not using a computer, correct?

Yes and No. It uses the native resolution which also gives it the best possible picture. This means if you have a bluray player in your pc or downloaded some HD material to your pc and watch it on your plasma it will have a killer resolution, the best.

This is just a little more of what 1:1 mapping can do.

[cavu]

Originally Posted by Active Speaker

so it has no effect if you are not using a computer, correct?

Incorrect!

It has NOTHING to do with computers. It has everything to do with original source and display resolution!

You can 1:1 pixel map in the following ** instances:

• SD DVD (854x480) on ED (480p) displays.
• 720p HDTV (1280x720) (ABC,FOX,ESPN, Nat Geo) on HD (720p) displays.
• 1080i HDTV (1920x1080) (all "other" HDTV channels) on HD (1080i/p) displays.
• HD DVD (1920x1080) on HD (1080p) displays.

** The display must have a "native" (internal scaler defeated) mode for this to work.

[creemail]

Originally Posted by cavu

Incorrect!

It has NOTHING to do with computers. It has everything to do with original source and display resolution!

You can 1:1 pixel map in the following ** instances:

• SD DVD (854x480) on ED (480p) displays.
• 720p HDTV (1280x720) (ABC,FOX,ESPN, Nat Geo) on HD (720p) displays.
• 1080i HDTV (1920x1080) (all "other" HDTV channels) on HD (1080i/p) displays.
• HD DVD (1920x1080) on HD (1080p) displays.

** The display must have a "native" (internal scaler defeated) mode for this to work.

Thanks cavu!

Chris

[PooperScooper]

And as an added note, some people do 1:1 pixel mapping so the display does basically no video processing so 1080i wouldn't be appropriate if you are trying to bypass video processing in the display.

larry

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally Posted by Active Speaker

Thanks, so it has no effect if you are not using a computer, correct?

Hi Active Speaker,

Not necessarily. There are some standalone DVD players/ scalers that can output 1:1 pixel mapping via DVI. The DVI interface has the ability to use the panel's phyiscal native resolution. 1366x768P displays for example, can be displayed at 1366 x 768 via DVI. But most you'll find with DVD players these days are HDMI, which in this case, cannot give you 1366x768. It'll be either 720p, 1080i/p, or 480p which will not be able to deliver as good PQ/TQ as the DVI outputting at 1:1.

Now say if you have a 1080P display, you can then have 1:1 mapping *with* HDMI, because HDMI is able to output 1920x1080. The DVI should also work at 1:1. Theorically, the VGA can put out 1920x1080 but I have not gotten the confirmation who has actually done it. Even if it does it, it's not going to be as good as DVI or HDMI.

So yeah, some 768p *Consumer* Panny TVs have the phyical hardware to handle 1:1, but they don't come with DVI.... Once again, HDMI can't do it in this case because it's 768p panel.

What's allowing the 768P Professional(Commercial) Panny TVs to run 1:1 is the availability of having the DVI connection.

Also, the 768P Pioneer plasma can't do 1:1, even *if* it had DVI because the panel's phyical native resolution is at 1365 x 768 and not 1366 x 768.

[cavu]

Larry is right ... to a point.

BUT interlaced signals (480i/1080i) have to be deinterlaced SOMEWHERE to be viewed on a digital display, so it becomes a matter of which video processor does the better job: the source (ie. STB, DVD, etc.) or the display.

Many aficienados prefer using the "raw" native 480i digital output from their DVD player and let the display processor do the work.

[cavu]

Originally Posted by IamAnoobieCheez

There are some standalone DVD players/ scalers that can output 1:1 pixel mapping via DVI.

WOW!

The segment I quoted is about the only part of that message that is correct.

The rest is gobbledygook or bafflegab!

I am typing on my mobile PDA and don't have the patience to respond to every element of this misguided post, but:

• DVI & HDMI have identical video performance;
• The is no such thing as 1:1 pixel-mapping when using 768p ! There is no such thing as a native 768p program source. 768p (and its variants) are non-standard HDTV resolutions - they are computer display resolutions!

If you, the reader, do not already have a solid grasp of the concept of 1:1 pixel-mapping and can sort through IamAnoobieCheez's ramblings, it will be in your interest to ignore his post altogether!

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Looks like somebody has woken up from the wrong side of bed.

Originally Posted by cavu

WOW!

but:

• DVI & HDMI have [u]identical[u] video performance;

• Yes they do.
  
  
  But HDMI can't output 1366 x 768 display on a 768P panel. It'll run at 1280x720 or 1920x1080i which is not the panel's native resolution. Hence the pictures gets *stretched*, giving blurry soft images. In that case, the DVI will eat HDMI like a little cup cake.
  
  
  

  The is no such thing as 1:1 pixel-mapping when using 768p !

  That is incorrect.
  
  The 768P panel outputs 1366x768 1:1 pixel mapping, *if* you use DVI and the video card supports it.
  
  
  

  There is no such thing as a native 768p program source. 768p (and its variants) are non-standard HDTV resolutions - they are computer display resolutions!

Yep, that is correct. So I don't see what you are trying to argue about.

If you, the reader, do not already have a solid grasp of the concept of 1:1 pixel-mapping and can sort through IamAnoobieCheez's ramblings, it will be 9n your interest to ignore his post altogether!

Actually, based on your post with incorrect information, this message applies to you. You have been seriously confused, or mis-informed.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Actually, I wasn't gonna pick on your post, but since you are asking for it, I'll give it to you.

Originally Posted by cavu

Incorrect!

It has NOTHING to do with computers. It has everything to do with original source and display resolution!

You can 1:1 pixel map in the following ** instances:

• 720p HDTV (1280x720) (ABC,FOX,ESPN, Nat Geo) on HD (720p) displays.

• You need to be careful...... There are not many 720P panels out there. Only a few TVs like some late model Panasonic Industrial model does have 720 vertical resolutions, but most other TVs are 768P or 1080P. If the panel is 768p, and view a 720p broadcast signal, you cannot get 1:1 mapping.
  
  

  1080i HDTV (1920x1080) (all "other" HDTV channels) on HD (1080i/p) displays.

Now you are going way overboard. This is wrong information. The *1080i* displays cannot do 1:1 mapping when viewing 1080i(1920x1080i) broadcast signal. You are stretching the screen.

I think you are getting confused with the Broadcast signals and the 1:1 mapping of the TV. You need to stop spamming fraud information. This is your warning.

[cavu]

Originally Posted by IamAnoobieCheez

But HDMI can't output 1366 x 768 display on a 768P panel.

Absolute BS.

For the sake of this discussion:

HDMI is a transmission spec - not a resolution spec - exactly the same as DVI. There is no specific limitation to what aspect ratio signal it will pass (within the physical bandwidth limitations of the cable itself).

It'll run at 1280x720 or 1920x1080i

Again, HDMI/DVI does not determine the aspect ratio or resolution of the signal. The connected equipment (ie. STB, DVD player, PC, etc.) determines that!

The folly of your argument is demonstrated by plugging a DVI-HDMI adapter into the DVI socket on your PC which you have set to output 1366x768. Then use an HDMI cable to go from that adapter to the display. Guess what!? The HDMI cable will pass the same 1366x768 signal as the DVI cable! Duh?!

Whether the cable is a DVI or an HDMI has NOTHING to do with the aspect ratio or resolution of the video signal passing through it!

The 768P panel outputs 1366x768 1:1 pixel mapping

1:1 pixel-mapping requires that the source and display resolution match (on a "1:1 basis" - duh!) There is no native video program source that has a 1366x768 resolution (other than a PC desktop, which is not a program source). Therefore there is no such thing as 1:1 pixel-mapping at 1366x768. Period.

[cavu]

Originally Posted by IamAnoobieCheez

If the panel is 768p, and view a 720p broadcast signal, you cannot get 1:1 mapping.

That is exactly what I said in the first place!

The *1080i* displays cannot do 1:1 mapping when viewing 1080i(1920x1080i) broadcast signal. You are stretching the screen.

Huh?

You'll have to try and explain yourself on that one!

I think you are getting confused with the Broadcast signals and the 1:1 mapping of the TV.

As I have been designing broadcast equipment for over 40 years, I think I might have some insight on this topic.

And your background is ... ? (Your profile says you are 3. I believe it.)

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally Posted by cavu

Absolute BS.

No..... your statements are BS.

HDMI is a transmission spec - not a resolution spec - exactly the same as DVI. There is no specific limitation to what aspect ratio signal it will pass (within the physical bandwidth limitations of the cable itself).Again, HDMI/DVI does not determine the aspect ratio or resolution of the signal. The source equipment (ie. STB, DVD player, PC, etc.) determines that!

Both the HDMI and DVI are digital. But when you connect via HDMI from PC to the display you cannot get the native resolution of the 1366x768 TV, *period*. The HDMI interface is only limited to deliver 480p, 720p, 1080i/p video, not the computer resolutions. 1:1 pixel mapping is critical and is very useful on a computer resolution to display on the panel for providing clearest and sharpest images and texts. No matter what equipment you use you cannot get native res of the 768p when you use HDMI. You need to stop get yourself confused with HDMI is better than DVI or DVI is better than HDMI in terms of PQ. You are imagining this yourself, not me.

The folly of your argument is demonstrated by plugging a DVI-HDMI adapter into the DVI socket on your PC which you have set to output 1366x768. Then use an HDMI cable to go from that adapter to the display. Guess what!? The HDMI cable will pass the same 1366x768 signal as the DVI cable! Duh?!

That is not recommended for those who aim *PQ*. There will be some loss of PQ when you use adapter like that. Even though both HDMI and DVI are digital you are still going through some level of conversion which degrades IQ and TQ.

Whether the cable is a DVI or an HDMI has NOTHING to do with the aspect ratio or resolution of the video signal passing through it!1:1 pixel-mapping requires that the source and display resolution match (on a "1:1 basis" - duh!)

Have you seen how the texts look when you run HDMI cable from PC to the 768P panel? You will find that the texts will be un-even across the screen. One of the most common thing you will notice is the *softness*. I would have to be pretty damn stupid to use HDMI cable from my PC to the display. That is what I would not do most.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally Posted by cavu

That is exactly what I said in the first place! Huh?

That is what I have been saying in the first place. Huh?

Quote by cheez - The *1080i* displays cannot do 1:1 mapping when viewing 1080i(1920x1080i) broadcast signal. You are stretching the screen.

Quote by cavu -
Huh?

You'll have to try and explain yourself on that one!

You don't know what 1080i TV is?... YOU are the one said "1080i TV"!!!. I hope you even know what 1080i TV really is. If you don't, you wouldn't understand what the hell I've said in that quote. i will give you 30 minutes to think about it.

You'll have to try and explain yourself on that one!As I have been designing broadcast equipment for over 40 years, I think I might have some insight on this topic.

No you don't... as you don't seem to understand how video signals get displayed from PC to the display panel. Experienced in designing broadcast equipment for 40 years doesn't mean jack nothing if you don't know about connection interfaces and how the video resolutions get displayed to the TV when using PC. You seem to know one thing, but not other areas.(hint: computers). I am not surprised you don't know how this really works in real-world. Don't get over-confident just because you have 40 years of designing *broadcast equipment*.

And your background is ... ? (Your profile says you are 3. I believe it.)

.... Oh, now you want to get personal? Insults eh? If you are shivering just say so. You don't need to be starting with the personal attacks.

[cavu]

IamAnoobieCheez added to my twit filter. Bye bye.

[RichGuy]

Originally Posted by cavu

IamAnoobieCheez added to my twit filter. Bye bye.

Cavu, if anyone is a twit and mis-informed it is you. Cheez has been using 1.1 pixel matching on his 768p Panasonic professional display.

Yes for the most part DVI and HDMI are the same (in video quality terms), but not always as the connected equipment also has a say in this. This link displays a chart which shows the Panasonic professional display does support 1366 x 768 by its DVI input, it does not support this resolution using its HDMI input brochures/B_TH-PH10Series.pdf

Also, yes we are talking about 1.1 pixel matching by using a computer to output 1366 x 768 to the displays 1366 x 768 native resolution.

WOW!

[Suhaib]

.......

1:1 pixel mapping is especially important for when connecting the display to your PC. That way video you play from your PC will be scaled up or down to your native res. by the video card, and also text\web or games running at that native res. will look at its best. Same principle like how you run your LCD monitors at the native resolution for the sharpest picture.

I know most TVs, like the new consumer Panasonic displays without VGA inputs, that only have an HDMI connection cannot get 1:1 display from a PC source(unless the TV is 1080p) even when using DVI-HDMI adapters.

[cavu]

Originally Posted by RichGuy

the Panasonic professional display does support 1366 x 768 by its DVI input, it does not support this resolution using its HDMI input

This is clearly a "Panasonic" limitation and has nothing to do with HDMI or DVI capabilities, per se.

So his assertion should be that the:

'Panasonic does not support 1366x768 on its HDMI port"

NOT

"HDMI does not support 1366x768".

[cavu]

Originally Posted by RichGuy

we are talking about 1.1 pixel matching by using a computer to output 1366 x 768 to the displays 1366 x 768 native resolution.

What you are referring to is actually "pixel-matching", not "1:1 pixel-matching", a subtlety lost on many people.

[RichGuy]

Originally Posted by cavu

This is clearly a "Panasonic" limitation and has nothing to do with HDMI or DVI capabilities, per se.

So his assertion should be that the:

'Panasonic does not support 1366x768 on its HDMI port"

NOT

"HDMI does not support 1366x768".

Actually it is a Panasonic professional benefit, most displays are not capable of this resolution input at all. It has nothing to do with DVI or HDMI cable capabilities but the available input capabilities of current displays. Also 1366 x 768 output to a 1366 x768 native resolution display is 1:1 pixel matching, matching each pixel one to one without any need to up or down convert.

[wsfanatic]

Originally Posted by cavu

'Panasonic does not support 1366x768 on its HDMI port"

NOT

"HDMI does not support 1366x768".

This is a correct statement. This is also true with other manufacturers, not just Panasonic. It is an extrapolation to say that HDMI doesn't support anything other than the standard resolutions. This is terribly incorrect. HDMI has the bandwidth to support various resolutions. The limitations occur on the hardware ends, not in the actual interface itself.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally Posted by cavu

This is clearly a "Panasonic" limitation and has nothing to do with HDMI or DVI capabilities, per se.

So his assertion should be that the:

'Panasonic does not support 1366x768 on its HDMI port"

NOT

"HDMI does not support 1366x768".

It's the SAME damn thing....

It's not the TV's fault. It's the limitation of the HDMI interface itself does not allow 1366 x 768 1:1 mapping on the 768P panel. Don't go try blaming on the other hardware.

Also, when you use DVI port of the video card from the PC, and use DVI-HDMI adaptor the signal is driving from the DVI interface so ofcourse you can get 1366 x 768. If you run the HDMI equipped video card to the TV then you'll get stuck with the 720p and 1080i signal.. that's what the HDMI is meant to provide, not the computer res. So it don't freakin ass matter what you should blame. The bottom line is what we have now, the DVI supports 1366 x 768 1:1 pixel mapping. Understand? There are no buts and if's about it.


And like what RichGuy has said, I have been running 1:1 square pixel mapping on my 768p plasma with *DVI-D* connection. It works the best.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Oh.... and I said this many times before but I'll say it again.

I have never seen in my life that the HDMI puts out as clear, razor sharp, and perfectly even texts across the entire screen as I get on my DVI-D setup. I always see un-even texts and a little bit of blurriness on the HDMI w/ 768p display. That is because it's NOT running in 1:1 pixel mapping.

That is the bottom line, *what* gives the user what he/she wants, 1:1 pixel ass mapping in this case.

[fooit]

Cheez,

Do you use TY-42TM6D in your Panny 7UY for DVI-D?
For some reason in the link RichGuy posted 1366x768 is supported by DVI card for PF models only.

[RichGuy]

Originally Posted by fooit

Cheez,

Do you use TY-42TM6D in your Panny 7UY for DVI-D?
For some reason in the link RichGuy posted 1366x768 is supported by DVI card for PF models only.

Sorry, that was the new 10UK brochure I posted and it must have changed, here is the 9UK brochure as you can see 1366 x 768 is supported @60Hz

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasoni...TH-9Series.pdf

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally Posted by fooit

Cheez,

Do you use TY-42TM6D in your Panny 7UY for DVI-D?
For some reason in the link RichGuy posted 1366x768 is supported by DVI card for PF models only.

Yes.

I have been using the TY-42TM6D on my TH-50PHD7UY.

It supports 1366 x 768 1:1 pixel mapping.


As RichGuy mentioned earlier, yes I tried TY-42TM6D on my 9UK as well a while back. 1366 x 768 1:1 mapping.

[wsfanatic]

Originally Posted by IamAnoobieCheez

It's not the TV's fault. It's the limitation of the HDMI interface itself does not allow 1366 x 768 1:1 mapping on the 768P panel. Don't go try blaming on the other hardware.

What the h*** are you talking about. HDMI (from an interface standpoint) has absolutely nothing to do with a 768p panel displaying a signal 1:1. 1:1 refers to a display's ability to display a signal (matching the display's native resolution) without additional processing. The problem you keep ranting on about has to do with the fact that most displays HDMI ports do NOT support 1366x768. This is a hardware compatibility issue. It has NOTHING to do with HDMI's ability to transmit a 1366x768 signal, much less in 1:1 (the last part is done on the display side).

[wsfanatic]

An analogy to what you are trying to say is that because most 2006 1080p displays had overscan (i.e. no option for 1:1 pixel mapping) that if DVI was used instead of HDMI, that the displays could suddenly display a signal in 1:1. Not only is this illogical, it is completely incorrect. You are confusing two separate issues but related issues.