Netflix and BD disc rental discussion thread

[gwsat]

Originally Posted by JohnES1

Maybe they'd get more buys if they paid more attention to BD transfer quality, according to the AVS BD PQ thread very few are passing muster.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...58316&page=423

I would take what some of the posters have said in the thread to which you linked with a very large dollop of salt. The quality of most of the transfers to BD I have seen since I bought a BD player and subscribed to Blockbuster has been fine. It seems to me that most of the perceived differences are the result of differences in the film itself. Just as some films look better than others, so do some BDs. I think it is mostly unfair to blame the disappointing PQ of some BDs on the transfer rather than the film.

[JohnES1]

Another cracked edge Netlix BD today makes 31 out of my last 42 since the problem started 4/24/'09. Thanks to the guy who recently reported no problems in LA, CA. It has to be the Redlands USPS machines.

I just called customer service to get a months credit-already shows on my account page. The rep I spoke with thought the discs are nonmachine processed, must have been on the phone for twenty minutes explaining reality. This isn't fun anymore...

[mproper]

It has now been nearly a month since I have received a cracked Blu-Ray (prior to May, I was receiving nearly 1/2 cracked).

I think my problems may be over and they have resolved whatever issues my center/USPS had.

At least my fingers are crossed.

[sjp777]

questions for you all:

based on what you've experienced would you say the damage is USPS related or the return mailer netflix is using to send them in?

For those using both netflix and BB do you see any trend with damage being more prevalent in the netflix mailer vs the BB mailer?

I won't say who I work for but I am not just being curious.

[mproper]

Originally Posted by sjp777

based on what you've experienced would you say the damage is USPS related or the return mailer netflix is using to send them in?

It's HIGHLY unlikely the envelope is damaging dics So I would guess it's the USPS machines.

of course, that's like saying it's not my fault the priceless Ming Dynasty vase I shipped in an empty box with no styrofoam peanuts broke....it's the USPS's fault that it broke.

My point is that even if the USPS machine is damaging discs, I don't see how they're responsible for Netflix's inadequate (IMO) packaging. You need to make sure the packaging is sufficient enough to protect what you are mailing.

[sjp777]

Originally Posted by mproper

It's HIGHLY unlikely the envelope is damaging dics So I would guess it's the USPS machines.

of course, that's like saying it's not my fault the priceless Ming Dynasty vase I shipped in an empty box with no styrofoam peanuts broke....it's the USPS's fault that it broke.

My point is that even if the USPS machine is damaging discs, I don't see how they're responsible for Netflix's inadequate (IMO) packaging. You need to make sure the packaging is sufficient enough to protect what you are mailing.

packaging plays a huge roll in this process. Mailing dvd's and paying for the return is a huge cost with the volume netflix does. The mailer must be under a certain weight both going and coming or the postage rates make the business model not viable.

It is very difficult to add additional protection without adding weight. With these kind of volumes it is usually more cost effective to replace discs than jack up postage rates over the entire program

I am asking specifically, do you see damage the would appear to be from an automated usps sorter, tears on the front end of the mailer, obvious tracking of the sorter along the bottom of the mailer? if you do see this and also have done BB do you see the same?

again not being curious. if you have objective articulate feedback with details on what you have experienced somebody who can actually do something about it will see it.

[K-Spaz]

Originally Posted by sjp777

questions for you all:

based on what you've experienced would you say the damage is USPS related or the return mailer netflix is using to send them in?

Both.

For those using both netflix and BB do you see any trend with damage being more prevalent in the netflix mailer vs the BB mailer?

My personal experience (3 at a time on both services simultaneously) NF ~ 8-12 times as likely to break.

[K-Spaz]

Originally Posted by sjp777

packaging plays a huge roll in this process. Mailing dvd's and paying for the return is a huge cost with the volume netflix does. The mailer must be under a certain weight both going and coming or the postage rates make the business model not viable.

It is very difficult to add additional protection without adding weight. With these kind of volumes it is usually more cost effective to replace discs than jack up postage rates over the entire program

I understand this.

I am asking specifically, do you see damage the would appear to be from an automated usps sorter, tears on the front end of the mailer, obvious tracking of the sorter along the bottom of the mailer?

I've seen all sorts of envelopes. Anywhere from pristine to barely still holding the disk. Let me make the requisite disclaimer now, this is my opinion as is all that follows in this post... The damage seems most likely to occur when the mailer is sent into the sorting machine with the loose flap first. When that happens, which is rarely, it's much more likely the br disk won't live through it, and the envelope will look like it went through a wringer washer a few dozen times. When they go through the proper way (disk first) I don't really see as much damage to the envelope itself, and the marks that will be visible are generally restricted to the very center of the leading edge of the envelope. This is exactly on a quadrant point on the disk inside the envelope.

I suspect that the Blockbuster envelope is less likely to allow damage due to it's heavier weight. I don't think the net weight is higher, but the smaller envelope with more layers is more substantial. (flap that get's removed is almost like card stock). Weather or not that helps, it appears so to me.

if you do see this and also have done BB do you see the same?

No. The marks are on both envelopes, but, not in the same relative position. When the BB envelope hits on the same roller that damages the Netflix disk, the bb disk is riding lower in the transport and takes a glancing blow up higher, rather than a direct hit on the leading edge. (Blow is more tangent than perpendicular (radial). Taken at 10:30 vs at 9:00) due to the height of the envelope.

[K-Spaz]

The paper used on a NF envelope is about .004-.0041". The paper used on a BB envelope is about .0075" and with the address label that also protects the edge of the disk, it's about .011" thick (should it end up going through the machine with that label going first and helping to protect the disk).

[JohnES1]

Originally Posted by sjp777

packaging plays a huge roll in this process. Mailing dvd's and paying for the return is a huge cost with the volume netflix does. The mailer must be under a certain weight both going and coming or the postage rates make the business model not viable.

It is very difficult to add additional protection without adding weight. With these kind of volumes it is usually more cost effective to replace discs than jack up postage rates over the entire program

I am asking specifically, do you see damage the would appear to be from an automated usps sorter, tears on the front end of the mailer, obvious tracking of the sorter along the bottom of the mailer? if you do see this and also have done BB do you see the same?

again not being curious. if you have objective articulate feedback with details on what you have experienced somebody who can actually do something about it will see it.

I've checked about the last 25 of my 31 cracked edge Netflix BDs, and the crack is always under the leading edge of the mailers(opposite the 'floppy' end.) The following picture shows a typical cracked edge BD on top of the Tyvek inner sleeve which is on top of the mailer(all oriented as shipped.)



Here's a couple of more Netflix mailer pictures(post numbers 48 and 50 at another thread)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post16397912

Anyone have or know of pictures of the Blockbuster mailer configuration?

[sjp777]

ok good feedback. thanks.

[JohnES1]

Originally Posted by K-Spaz

The paper used on a NF envelope is about .004-.0041". The paper used on a BB envelope is about .0075" and with the address label that also protects the edge of the disk, it's about .011" thick (should it end up going through the machine with that label going first and helping to protect the disk).

According to the USPS there is only one orientation through the processing machines and it's related to the address label's orientation:

"Most PRM mailers currently use a two-way DVD mailpiece
for shipping to and from the customer, where the envelope
used to ship the DVD to the customer is converted and used
to return the DVD to the rental company (referred to as the
two-way DVD return mailpiece). One DVD rental company
mailer places the DVD in the front of the envelope on its
way to the customer, creating a hard leading edge on the
mailpiece. On the return trip back to the rental company,
the DVD ends up on the trailing edge when the envelope is
converted by the customer. This is because the customer
tears off the perforated cover of the envelope to expose the
return address. The return address information is printed
upside down relative to the original cover, meaning that the
envelope must be rotated 180 degrees to be processed
upright. After this rotation, the DVD is positioned on the
trailing edge of the envelope, creating a leading flap that is
referred to as a “floppy leading edge.”"
http://www.uspsoig.gov/FOIA_files/MS-AR-08-001.pdf

[K-Spaz]

Well, then the folks at my post office havn't figured out which orientation to use on the nf outgoing disks cause they've come to me with that flap folded every which way, and torn all to ___. More than once.

[Chris Rein]

Well, I've never had a broken Blu-ray from Netflix (or Blockbuster for that matter when I was on their online program). The only issue I had was a physical problem with a disc (brand new, first week, no scratches, nics or anything) and that was on 7 Pounds. Would get 10 min into the movie and just freak out. Did it on all 3 of my BD players. Very strange.

Sucks some of you are having these issues. That's just unacceptable, and can only imagine what the more fragile DVD would look like sent to you.

On another note, I'm still getting movies on release day with no problem. They get to my house next day and receive just as fast. Even movies I've added the morning they ship (new releases) still come. Have only had two instances of not getting something at the top of my queue. Guess I have been lucky.

Hope they sort this out for you all.

[punditguy]

Originally Posted by Chris Rein

That's just unacceptable, and can only imagine what the more fragile DVD would look like sent to you.

What does that mean? I had 7 of 8 broken Blu-rays before I eliminated them from my Netflix plan. I've never had a broken DVD. I'm assuming that Netflix DVDs and Blu-rays go through the same equipment at the USPS -- or do they x-ray the packages just so they can break the Blu-rays?

I don't care about Blu-ray's specs on paper. It's painfully obvious that something about them is more fragile than DVDs.

[JohnES1]

Originally Posted by K-Spaz

Well, then the folks at my post office havn't figured out which orientation to use on the nf outgoing disks cause they've come to me with that flap folded every which way, and torn all to ___. More than once.

I've only had a couple of mailers slightly rumpled, no major damage_you should let them know. It was my impression from the various sources of info you guys have come up with that Netflix presorts the mailers so they can get the USPS to bypass the first machine called a facer, which is particularly hard on the discs. This is not established fact, just my impression of what I've been able to put together so far. Probably each automated postal facility has their own regimen for dealing with Netflix ships.

Btw, I've had two Netflix customer service reps state adamantly that the discs are shipped only from the main hubs(there're 58 of them according to the Netflix website.) The satellite hubs("Nearest Netflix Shipping Facilty" unless you're near a main hub) get the returns and then they're trucked by Netflix to the main hub for redistribution.

[ejhuzy]

Originally Posted by punditguy

I don't care about Blu-ray's specs on paper. It's painfully obvious that something about them is more fragile than DVDs.

+1000.

I never got a cracked DVD from Netflix. Only on the blu-rays do I get the cracked edge (just like JohnES's picture above). I've seen all the pictures that show how DVDs are put together and how blu-rays are put together. I don't care. I just want my blu-rays from Netflix not cracked (which has been the case on the last 3 I got).

[Kamakzie]

I just found this thread thanks to JohnES1. I had to dump Blu-ray from my queue because if the cracking issue. It sucks to, Netflix really needs to get this fixed.

[Rob West]

I just watched my 49th BD from Netflix, out of 49, I received one snapped in two, but not a single cracked edge.

[JohnES1]

Originally Posted by Kamakzie

I just found this thread thanks to JohnES1. I had to dump Blu-ray from my queue because if the cracking issue. It sucks to, Netflix really needs to get this fixed.

So, Michigan also has the cracked edge problem...

Two more Netflix Blu-rays with cracked edges for me today, brings me to 33 out of my last 44 BD ships. Going on seven weeks of this and the bull malarky from Netflix customer service.

Here, laugh hardy...

[dmaul1114]

I've been lucky I guess. No cracked discs from Netflix for me, and I've had access since December in the DC area--discs come from Gaithersburg, MD. The very first one I got had issues with freezing up--but no cracks. And that's the only one that's given me any problems.

I've also had no problem getting new releases after the increased the fee again a couple months back.

[Resuarus]

I haven't had a cracked one from Netflix yet. However, I have a Pioneer 51 and it doesn't do too well with error correction. I've had three out of eleven discs that wouldn't play all the way through.

[adriankeith]

I guess I've been in the lucky group. I live in Long Beach, CA and I've been getting NF Blu-Ray discs for quite some time now without a single issue. I play through a PS3 and have never had playback issues. Hopefully they clear that up as well as the long wait users are experiencing for some movies.

[JohnES1]

Originally Posted by Resuarus

I haven't had a cracked one from Netflix yet. However, I have a Pioneer 51 and it doesn't do too well with error correction. I've had three out of eleven discs that wouldn't play all the way through.

Look for cracks, getting stuck half way through is why I quit trying to play those with them. Also, I wipe every disc I get from Netflix(that's not cracked) with a damp microfiber wash cloth followed immediately with a polish with a dry microfiber wash cloth. I haven't had skips/freezes since I started doing this. What I was noticing besides gunk spots on the disc was a fine film like the disc had been around a heavy smoker. Oh, and don't use a microfiber cloth to clean the disc that has been laundered with fabric softener, same goes for the cloth you use to wipe your TV screen!

[StanDaMan]

Originally Posted by ejhuzy

+1000.

I never got a cracked DVD from Netflix. Only on the blu-rays do I get the cracked edge (just like JohnES's picture above). I've seen all the pictures that show how DVDs are put together and how blu-rays are put together. I don't care. I just want my blu-rays from Netflix not cracked (which has been the case on the last 3 I got).

I'm in EXACTLY the same boat ej. I've stopped renting blu's from Netflix all together and just buy them instead. Problem solved... lol [IMG]http://www.entertainment-place.info/smile/img/2658/*************************[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.entertainment-place.info/smile/img/2659/*************************[/IMG].... not really ugh

[JohnES1]

Of the three Netflix Blu-ray Discs that came today two have edge cracks. Makes 35 of my last 47. Uncanny how the average stays right at 75%.

[NetworkTV]

So far, not a single damaged BD here in CT. In fact, other than one disc that had a small, hairline scratch on it, they've all been pristine.

I've had a few cracked DVDs over the years - and several that looked like they were run over, then eaten by the family dog - but that's like 1% of the discs I've received. Most of those came from Southern California or Upstate NY.

The thing is, though, I KNOW they're using machines to sort them coming to me because a few DVDs have been completely missing and I've pretty much only gotten the address flap and some ragged bits of the envelope in a plastic "we're sorry" bag. Out of the 4 times this has happened, 2 of the discs made their way back to Netflix while 2 were never found.

I have yet to have a BD go missing, but I rent far fewer of them so it's just the odds there. I did have one BD have the wrong disc in the correct sleeve for the movie.

I have to wonder if some postal machines are perhaps out of calibration, which causes them to damage stuff more easily. If mine are going through a machine (and they'd have to be based on the condition some of the envelopes arrive in) and the discs are arriving undamaged, then maybe something is wrong with some machines.

-------------------------

At any rate, on the subject of the new fees, I did go through with downgrading my account from 4 to 3 discs. I still want BDs, but that was too much money on the 4 out plan.

[mproper]

Dumb question, but got two BD's from NF on Saturday (neither were cracked, thank God). I've been a NF subscriber for a couple of years now, but for the first time both BD's had just plain grey cover art with the name of the movie and "Netflix: For Rental Only, Not for Sale" message.

Is that something new they're doing, or have I just managed not to get one of these discs before? Just thought it was strange that both the discs were like this and I've never seen one before.

[wmcclain]

Originally Posted by mproper

Dumb question, but got two BD's from NF on Saturday (neither were cracked, thank God). I've been a NF subscriber for a couple of years now, but for the first time both BD's had just plain grey cover art with the name of the movie and "Netflix: For Rental Only, Not for Sale" message.

Is that something new they're doing, or have I just managed not to get one of these discs before? Just thought it was strange that both the discs were like this and I've never seen one before.

I saw the first Blu-ray example of this just recently; it's been common on DVDs for a long time. The title was TELL NO ONE.

-Bill

[mproper]

Originally Posted by wmcclain

I saw the first Blu-ray example of this just recently; it's been common on DVDs for a long time. The title was TELL NO ONE.

-Bill

"Tell No One" is actually one of the BD's I got and was referring to. The other is "Elegy"

Never seen any DVD's like that either, which was why I was curious since I got 2 the same day, never having seen one of these before.