Halcro SSP100 rebadged parasound?

bluray_1080p · 01-08-08, 10:05 PM

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index....0&SQ=0&start=0

Have a read through this thread/test of the halcro SSP100, it seams that the halcro SSP100 is worse then the parasound halo C1.

Eric Carroll · 01-08-08, 11:21 PM

The Halcro is not a rebadged Parasound. There are claims that both Halcro and Parasound use the Vinci Labs Titan OEM SSP platform and/or boards. There are claims that other SSP manufacturers have used this OEM platform as well. However, without actually ripping the two apart and comparing its difficult to say for sure. NDAs probably play a role here too for those actually in the know.

There have been very oblique references to Vinci Labs having some kind of business difficulty and/or potentially exiting the OEM SSP business with the sale of NHT to Vinci Group of Colorado. Noone has come forward to clarify this as yet one way or the other, but if it were true, a number of SSP manufacturers using the Titan platform would have a problem.

If anyone knows who else uses the Vinci Labs Titan I would be interested in knowing.

Eric Carroll · 01-10-08, 05:14 PM

Well, I finally found the thread that indicates Vinci Labs is dead and NHT is on life support. This thread indicates the former CTO of Vinci is no longer working there.

Jack Hidley · 01-10-08, 06:00 PM

NHT has been purchased by one of the founders and some former employees. The company is definitely not on life support.

bluray_1080p · 01-10-08, 10:42 PM

Well the halcro like most if not all high end processors will be a re badge of a basic design.

Eric Carroll · 01-10-08, 11:06 PM

Jack,

What happened to Vinci Labs and the Titan OEM system that Halcro and Parasound are claimed to use?

Eric Carroll · 01-10-08, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluray_1080p

Well the halcro like most if not all high end processors will be a re badge of a basic design.

Bluray,

I went and did some digging and came back with some data about who uses what OEM platform specifically around Vinci. Do you have any data to support your broad claim? It would be interesting to hear who is actually using what based on looking at some boards, photographs, some reviews, etc and not just opinion.

bluray_1080p · 01-11-08, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Bluray,

I went and did some digging and came back with some data about who uses what OEM platform specifically around Vinci. Do you have any data to support your broad claim? It would be interesting to hear who is actually using what based on looking at some boards, photographs, some reviews, etc and not just opinion.

Well we know all other high end processors do this so why would halcro be any different? The problem with halco is that they are like bose when it comes to their specs.

bluray_1080p · 01-11-08, 09:34 PM

http://www.minelab.com/index.php?skipIntro=true

http://www.minelab.com/parketronics/...hp?section=333

Anyone know what Parketronics supplies/makes for halcro?

Mozvz · 01-11-08, 10:26 PM

Blue Ray..

You never cease to amaze me how you love to stir up the pot in some manner. You should have a full time job as the paparazzi master of audio. That review was written quite a while ago and it's been proven subjectively by many owners including myself that the Halcro is an excellent processor. If you don't think it's worth the money, like this SSP or any of the more expensive pieces that's fine. It's just that your shtick becomes dull and mundane as time passes no matter what you post about anymore. If you are so concerned about a Parasound re badging, why don't you purchase one if you can, do your own analysis and testing and provide the specs for all of us to read?

Eric Carroll · 01-11-08, 11:16 PM

I didn't see any actual data about anyone other than Halcro or Parasound (which have already been claimed to be Vinci Labs' Titan), just more unsubstantiated sweeping claims. So this discussion goes on the ignore list for me.

bluray_1080p · 01-11-08, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Blue Ray..

You never cease to amaze me how you love to stir up the pot in some manner. You should have a full time job as the paparazzi master of audio. That review was written quite a while ago and it's been proven subjectively by many owners including myself that the Halcro is an excellent processor. If you don't think it's worth the money, like this SSP or any of the more expensive pieces that's fine. It's just that your shtick becomes dull and mundane as time passes no matter what you post about anymore. If you are so concerned about a Parasound re badging, why don't you purchase one if you can, do your own analysis and testing and provide the specs for all of us to read?

You do not like the truth? If you are so sure that your halcro is superior why not crack it open and take some pictures?

bluray_1080p · 01-11-08, 11:28 PM

http://www.nhthifi.com/2006/press/pr...VinciGroup.pdf

Vinci Labs web site is no longer up.

http://nhthifi.com/current/products/ht/controller.html

So is the NHT processor based on the halcro and/or the other way around?

m@rkus · 01-11-08, 11:32 PM

Why you haven't been banned from AVS yet is a true mystery to me. You make sweeping claims to stir the pot and then put the burden of proof on others to prove that you are wrong.

You remind me of those people in history who swore up and down that the world was flat and decreed that anyone believing the contrary was a heretic.

Give it a rest and let others enjoy their gear.

bluray_1080p · 01-11-08, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Why you haven't been banned from AVS yet is a true mystery to me. You make sweeping claims to stir the pot and then put the burden of proof on others to prove that you are wrong.

What is so wrong about finding out what the equipment is made of/from? The only reason people get up in arms is that they know fully well that there is nothing special about their high end processors.

Eric Carroll · 01-11-08, 11:36 PM

As I understand the story, Vinci Labs made Titan, an OEM platform. It has been claimed to be used by Halcro and Parasound. It also made the SOUND-1 OEM SSP platform.

Vinci Group (which Vinci Labs was part of) bought NHT. Somewhere in there, NHT adopted the SOUND-1 for their controller. I don't know exactly when but it was discussed in a long running thread at AVS regarding NHT product.

NHT has apparently been bought by its founder (Jack above confirmed this, but I have heard it from 2 other posters).

Vinci Labs is rumoured to be no longer viable as a business (I have no backup to this, just forum claims). The CTO of Vinci (listed in LinkedIn) is apparently no longer there and is rumoured to be helping original Vinci customers as a consultant.

That's the story as I have heard it. And the Vinci site was just taken down, literally like 2 days ago. It included photos of the boards. The Internet WayBack Machine may have archives.

So, again, got any more actual data?

bluray_1080p · 01-11-08, 11:38 PM

Quote:

So, again, got any more actual data?

How can we since everything is obviously covered up, it would solve everything if an owner of a halcro would crack it open and take some simple pictures.

bluray_1080p · 01-11-08, 11:42 PM

Wow there is nothing out there, this is all I can find on google.

Eric Carroll · 01-11-08, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluray_1080p

What is so wrong about finding out what the equipment is made of/from?

Nothing is wrong about finding out what the equipment is made of/from. I fully support you on that and in fact I want to know. If vendors are selling the same OEM product at 10x price spread, that is important information that I as a consumer want to know.

What is wrong is making sweeping, general claims with no data or support, and posting value judgments with no backup that you know will offend or upset people (like owners of the equipment being judged).

See "troll (Internet)" on wikipedia.

You have made posts in the past that I have found interesting and thoughtful. How about we get back to that? Your thread premise is an interesting one. Let's do some research here to understand what is actually going on in the market.

Eric Carroll · 01-11-08, 11:51 PM

Courtesy of the Internet Archive, here is the Vinci Labs Product set as of May, 2007.

And the complete list of archived Vinci pages.

Nothing dies on the Internet.

bluray_1080p · 01-11-08, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Nothing is wrong about finding out what the equipment is made of/from. I fully support you on that and in fact I want to know. If vendors are selling the same OEM product at 10x price spread, that is important information that I as a consumer want to know.

But we already know that this is exactly what the high end does.

Quote:

What is wrong is making sweeping, general claims with no data or support, and posting value judgments with no backup that you know will offend or upset people (like owners of the equipment being judged).

Then why won't an owner of a halcro SSP take 5 min and open up the chassis? They won't do this because they know what they will find.

Quote:

Let's do some research here to understand what is actually going on in the market.

Well it is kind of hard since all the info we seek has been removed and the halcro owners will no cooperate.

Eric Carroll · 01-11-08, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluray_1080p

But we already know that this is exactly what the high end does.

This is circular argumentation and proof by assertion.

sfogg · 01-12-08, 09:45 AM

"Well we know all other high end processors do this so why would halcro be any different? "

You know full well not *all* other high end processors do this.

Why do you knowingly spread misinformation?

Shawn

P.S. Find me the third party platform (like what Vinci provides) in a Lexicon MC-12/HD, MC-8,MC-4,DC-2,DC-1 or MC-1. Meridian 861,561,565,568,G68 or G61. Or the earlier Krell's, or the Casablanca....etc...etc.

thebland · 01-12-08, 10:09 AM

Actually, I think farming out to a specialty organization (e.g Vinci) is the best way.... Most companies can NOT do everything right.. Get help with experts in that particular area of business rather than try it yourself to save a dollar. Vinci is such a company.

I am a specialist by trade. I only do 2 procdedures. All day, every day. Specialists have a lot to offer. I'm no jack of all trades like some Pre/pro companies.

I left Lexicon, for example, because the sonics were hard edged at high levels (MC-12B). Perhaps a 3rd party could have improved Lexicon's sound.. I left Meridian for sonic reasons as well (never had a big sound stage). I'll leave Halcro if someone improves the sonics there. But they make the best sounding pre/pro today.

Vinci labs solution is a great sonic match with Halcro's superlative sound. It is a winner. I am fully enjoying mine.. It is the best sounding processor I have ever tried. If Vinci folds, they get another. No big shake. But we're only specualting on that.

Regarding Meridian, Theta...they do not even have an HDMI solution. So, not really fair to compare to them. Who knows how they will sound like when / if they ever do??

sfogg · 01-12-08, 12:27 PM

Jeff,

"Get help with experts in that particular area of business rather than try it yourself to save a dollar. "

The companies outsource to someone like Vinci to save money. Having the engineering staff on board to do it yourself is far more expensive.

Shawn

thebland · 01-12-08, 12:50 PM

Shawn,

In terms of putting together a group of engineers to research, design, and build a specialized unit for one or two products on a specialized product line would be costly.

Buying from a third party that specializes in the given product and sell it to a number of companies like Halcro, NHT, Anthem, etc costs would be likely less costly.

But, the bottom line, is outsourcing certain specialty pieces shouldn't be a knock against any manufacturer... you use who can do it best, be it yourself for certain parts of the unit and others for other parts.

ssabripo · 01-12-08, 12:58 PM

the key is to find where the balance is between outsourcing certain specialty components, and doing the Intellectual Property in house.

I do that all day at my work as a senior engineer at a fortune 500 company.

there is nothing wrong with Halcro using Vinci or any other boards, but rather how they implement it, how they introduce their own intellectual property in the rest of the design. As an example, on the video side of things, Denon is a MASTER of that...they use faroudja chipsets, HQV chipsets, etc, and implement their own algorithms, filter circuits, etc, and produce a design few can match.

Having heard the Halcro in my home, it is sonically one of the best SSP's out there bar none......at this point, Bluray_1080p is just trolling...

Eric Carroll · 01-12-08, 01:17 PM

I think I have figured out a way to understand who is using an OEM platform without looking at PCBs. Its not perfect but it will group SSPs.

We know Vinci has three products: boards, SOUND-1 and Titan. We know what decoders these support and what the interfaces were like. SOUND-1 is RCA only, Titan has XLR.

We also know NHT's new controller was Vinci's SOUND-1.

We can hypothesize that to keep costs down, if a Vinci OEM platform is used, it would reflect the SOUND-1/Titan hardware solution and, most importantly, the "stock" GUI without gratuitous modification (since modification would require customization of the platform). Especially in the area of equalization. So if the menu systems are the same or substantially similar, then the platform is likely related at the hardware/firmware level.

Also, if we find other "clusters" of menu structure, feature set and hardware architecture, that are different from Vinci but similar to each other we may conclude there is another OEM platform in use.

The biggest areas of variation within am OEM platform implementation might be in display technology (VFD vs screen: single line, multiline, or full screen display), exactly which features are enabled out of the full set supported, and vendor specific customization.

It is in noone's interest to copy GUIs in the SSP space. No SSP has sufficient market dominance to warrant copying the GUI (its not Windows or a Cisco router). However, since all SSPs deal with the same basic issues, similarities are inevitable.

This check is not foolproof. If the platform is heavily modified it might change the GUI substantially. Or the SSP manufacturer might have changed the GUI so as to not look too much alike with competitors, but this seems unlikely.

How do we proceed? Download all the manuals, and look at the hardware architecture, feature set, key bindings and menu structure. Check the feature set to see if it is a subset of the Vinci product. Look at menu structure to see if the menu tree and naming conventions are the same.

I have started this for my own curiosity. I looked at NHT, Halcro and Parasound, and in fact, there are very significant similarities in hardware, feature set and menu structures. Based on an initial quick look to be further confirmed, the similarity is so large and so obvious it strongly suggests they are from the same OEM platform from Vinci. I need to look a bit more to be sure.

A quick look at Lexicon, Integra, NAD and Cary show significant differences in hardware, feature set and menu structure. I need to look at these more, but my first guess is none of these are related to each other.

Just to anticipate arguments: this methodology of course does not detect outsourcing of parts, component boards or whole electronic subassemblies (e.g. the Vinci SSP & HDMI boards) where the SSP vendor does the integration and firmware. It simply says "if there is a detectable structural similarity, then its likely they are the same pre-integrated OEM platform".

I will post my findings once I get further into this.

Eric Carroll · 01-12-08, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfogg

Find me the third party platform (like what Vinci provides) in a Lexicon MC-12/HD, MC-8,MC-4,DC-2,DC-1 or MC-1. Meridian 861,561,565,568,G68 or G61. Or the earlier Krell's, or the Casablanca....etc...etc.

Hmm. I have a Krell Showcase, of the right vintage of feature set, etc. Perhaps I should take it apart... its menu structure is quite different from the stock Vinci.

sfogg · 01-12-08, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Carroll

Hmm. I have a Krell Showcase, of the right vintage of feature set, etc. Perhaps I should take it apart... its menu structure is quite different from the stock Vinci.

Eric,

That was my point, it isn't using a third party solution.

Looking at the GUI is one way of maybe seeing what uses the same design. Another way is to look at RS232 protocols. There you can sometimes see how units are related by which uses what. For example I found out this way the Aragon Stage One used the Sunfire design.

Shawn

01-08-08, 10:05 PM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
bluray_1080p AVS Special Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vancouver Posts: 1,203	Halcro SSP100 rebadged parasound? http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index....0&SQ=0&start=0 Have a read through this thread/test of the halcro SSP100, it seams that the halcro SSP100 is worse then the parasound halo C1.

01-08-08, 11:21 PM	#2 \| Link
Eric Carroll AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,054	The Halcro is not a rebadged Parasound. There are claims that both Halcro and Parasound use the Vinci Labs Titan OEM SSP platform and/or boards. There are claims that other SSP manufacturers have used this OEM platform as well. However, without actually ripping the two apart and comparing its difficult to say for sure. NDAs probably play a role here too for those actually in the know. There have been very oblique references to Vinci Labs having some kind of business difficulty and/or potentially exiting the OEM SSP business with the sale of NHT to Vinci Group of Colorado. Noone has come forward to clarify this as yet one way or the other, but if it were true, a number of SSP manufacturers using the Titan platform would have a problem. If anyone knows who else uses the Vinci Labs Titan I would be interested in knowing. Last edited by Eric Carroll; 01-08-08 at 11:30 PM..

01-10-08, 06:00 PM	#4 \| Link
Jack Hidley Speaker dude Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Danville, CA Posts: 596	NHT has been purchased by one of the founders and some former employees. The company is definitely not on life support. __________________ Jack Hidley Audio Consulting Services

01-10-08, 10:42 PM	#5 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
bluray_1080p AVS Special Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vancouver Posts: 1,203	Well the halcro like most if not all high end processors will be a re badge of a basic design.

01-11-08, 10:26 PM	#10 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
Mozvz AVS Special Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Northeastern PA Posts: 1,731	Blue Ray.. You never cease to amaze me how you love to stir up the pot in some manner. You should have a full time job as the paparazzi master of audio. That review was written quite a while ago and it's been proven subjectively by many owners including myself that the Halcro is an excellent processor. If you don't think it's worth the money, like this SSP or any of the more expensive pieces that's fine. It's just that your shtick becomes dull and mundane as time passes no matter what you post about anymore. If you are so concerned about a Parasound re badging, why don't you purchase one if you can, do your own analysis and testing and provide the specs for all of us to read?

01-10-08, 05:14 PM	#3 \| Link
Eric Carroll AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,054	Well, I finally found the thread that indicates Vinci Labs is dead and NHT is on life support. This thread indicates the former CTO of Vinci is no longer working there.

01-10-08, 11:06 PM	#6 \| Link
Eric Carroll AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,054	Jack, What happened to Vinci Labs and the Titan OEM system that Halcro and Parasound are claimed to use?

01-11-08, 09:34 PM	#9 \| Link
bluray_1080p AVS Special Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vancouver Posts: 1,203	http://www.minelab.com/index.php?skipIntro=true http://www.minelab.com/parketronics/...hp?section=333 Anyone know what Parketronics supplies/makes for halcro?

01-11-08, 11:16 PM	#11 \| Link
Eric Carroll AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,054	I didn't see any actual data about anyone other than Halcro or Parasound (which have already been claimed to be Vinci Labs' Titan), just more unsubstantiated sweeping claims. So this discussion goes on the ignore list for me.

01-11-08, 11:28 PM	#13 \| Link
bluray_1080p AVS Special Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vancouver Posts: 1,203	http://www.nhthifi.com/2006/press/pr...VinciGroup.pdf Vinci Labs web site is no longer up. http://nhthifi.com/current/products/ht/controller.html So is the NHT processor based on the halcro and/or the other way around?

01-11-08, 11:32 PM	#14 \| Link
m@rkus Advanced Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 783	Why you haven't been banned from AVS yet is a true mystery to me. You make sweeping claims to stir the pot and then put the burden of proof on others to prove that you are wrong. You remind me of those people in history who swore up and down that the world was flat and decreed that anyone believing the contrary was a heretic. Give it a rest and let others enjoy their gear.

01-11-08, 11:36 PM	#16 \| Link
Eric Carroll AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,054	As I understand the story, Vinci Labs made Titan, an OEM platform. It has been claimed to be used by Halcro and Parasound. It also made the SOUND-1 OEM SSP platform. Vinci Group (which Vinci Labs was part of) bought NHT. Somewhere in there, NHT adopted the SOUND-1 for their controller. I don't know exactly when but it was discussed in a long running thread at AVS regarding NHT product. NHT has apparently been bought by its founder (Jack above confirmed this, but I have heard it from 2 other posters). Vinci Labs is rumoured to be no longer viable as a business (I have no backup to this, just forum claims). The CTO of Vinci (listed in LinkedIn) is apparently no longer there and is rumoured to be helping original Vinci customers as a consultant. That's the story as I have heard it. And the Vinci site was just taken down, literally like 2 days ago. It included photos of the boards. The Internet WayBack Machine may have archives. So, again, got any more actual data? Last edited by Eric Carroll; 01-12-08 at 12:42 AM.. Reason: NHT uses the SOUND-1 not Titan.

01-11-08, 11:42 PM	#18 \| Link
bluray_1080p AVS Special Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vancouver Posts: 1,203	Wow there is nothing out there, this is all I can find on google.

01-11-08, 11:51 PM	#20 \| Link
Eric Carroll AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,054	Courtesy of the Internet Archive, here is the Vinci Labs Product set as of May, 2007. And the complete list of archived Vinci pages. Nothing dies on the Internet.

01-12-08, 09:45 AM	#23 \| Link
sfogg AVS Special Member AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Ma, USA Posts: 5,344 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	"Well we know all other high end processors do this so why would halcro be any different? " You know full well not all other high end processors do this. Why do you knowingly spread misinformation? Shawn P.S. Find me the third party platform (like what Vinci provides) in a Lexicon MC-12/HD, MC-8,MC-4,DC-2,DC-1 or MC-1. Meridian 861,561,565,568,G68 or G61. Or the earlier Krell's, or the Casablanca....etc...etc.

01-12-08, 10:09 AM	#24 \| Link
thebland Nostradamus of HT AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Detroit, Michigan USA Posts: 20,115 Classified Rating: 100% (3)	Actually, I think farming out to a specialty organization (e.g Vinci) is the best way.... Most companies can NOT do everything right.. Get help with experts in that particular area of business rather than try it yourself to save a dollar. Vinci is such a company. I am a specialist by trade. I only do 2 procdedures. All day, every day. Specialists have a lot to offer. I'm no jack of all trades like some Pre/pro companies. I left Lexicon, for example, because the sonics were hard edged at high levels (MC-12B). Perhaps a 3rd party could have improved Lexicon's sound.. I left Meridian for sonic reasons as well (never had a big sound stage). I'll leave Halcro if someone improves the sonics there. But they make the best sounding pre/pro today. Vinci labs solution is a great sonic match with Halcro's superlative sound. It is a winner. I am fully enjoying mine.. It is the best sounding processor I have ever tried. If Vinci folds, they get another. No big shake. But we're only specualting on that. Regarding Meridian, Theta...they do not even have an HDMI solution. So, not really fair to compare to them. Who knows how they will sound like when / if they ever do?? __________________ Jeff Last edited by thebland; 01-12-08 at 10:32 AM..

01-12-08, 12:27 PM	#25 \| Link
sfogg AVS Special Member AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Ma, USA Posts: 5,344 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	Jeff, "Get help with experts in that particular area of business rather than try it yourself to save a dollar. " The companies outsource to someone like Vinci to save money. Having the engineering staff on board to do it yourself is far more expensive. Shawn

01-12-08, 12:50 PM	#26 \| Link
thebland Nostradamus of HT AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Detroit, Michigan USA Posts: 20,115 Classified Rating: 100% (3)	Shawn, In terms of putting together a group of engineers to research, design, and build a specialized unit for one or two products on a specialized product line would be costly. Buying from a third party that specializes in the given product and sell it to a number of companies like Halcro, NHT, Anthem, etc costs would be likely less costly. But, the bottom line, is outsourcing certain specialty pieces shouldn't be a knock against any manufacturer... you use who can do it best, be it yourself for certain parts of the unit and others for other parts. __________________ Jeff

01-12-08, 12:58 PM	#27 \| Link
ssabripo gimme DIY or death Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Plantation, Floriduh Posts: 5,867	the key is to find where the balance is between outsourcing certain specialty components, and doing the Intellectual Property in house. I do that all day at my work as a senior engineer at a fortune 500 company. there is nothing wrong with Halcro using Vinci or any other boards, but rather how they implement it, how they introduce their own intellectual property in the rest of the design. As an example, on the video side of things, Denon is a MASTER of that...they use faroudja chipsets, HQV chipsets, etc, and implement their own algorithms, filter circuits, etc, and produce a design few can match. Having heard the Halcro in my home, it is sonically one of the best SSP's out there bar none......at this point, Bluray_1080p is just trolling... __________________ .___ _ / __\| \|_ ___ _ ___ __ Equipment schematic \__ \ ' \/ -_) '_\ V / . my audio connections \|___/_\|\|_\___\|_\| \_/ DIY interconnects

01-12-08, 01:17 PM	#28 \| Link
Eric Carroll AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,054	I think I have figured out a way to understand who is using an OEM platform without looking at PCBs. Its not perfect but it will group SSPs. We know Vinci has three products: boards, SOUND-1 and Titan. We know what decoders these support and what the interfaces were like. SOUND-1 is RCA only, Titan has XLR. We also know NHT's new controller was Vinci's SOUND-1. We can hypothesize that to keep costs down, if a Vinci OEM platform is used, it would reflect the SOUND-1/Titan hardware solution and, most importantly, the "stock" GUI without gratuitous modification (since modification would require customization of the platform). Especially in the area of equalization. So if the menu systems are the same or substantially similar, then the platform is likely related at the hardware/firmware level. Also, if we find other "clusters" of menu structure, feature set and hardware architecture, that are different from Vinci but similar to each other we may conclude there is another OEM platform in use. The biggest areas of variation within am OEM platform implementation might be in display technology (VFD vs screen: single line, multiline, or full screen display), exactly which features are enabled out of the full set supported, and vendor specific customization. It is in noone's interest to copy GUIs in the SSP space. No SSP has sufficient market dominance to warrant copying the GUI (its not Windows or a Cisco router). However, since all SSPs deal with the same basic issues, similarities are inevitable. This check is not foolproof. If the platform is heavily modified it might change the GUI substantially. Or the SSP manufacturer might have changed the GUI so as to not look too much alike with competitors, but this seems unlikely. How do we proceed? Download all the manuals, and look at the hardware architecture, feature set, key bindings and menu structure. Check the feature set to see if it is a subset of the Vinci product. Look at menu structure to see if the menu tree and naming conventions are the same. I have started this for my own curiosity. I looked at NHT, Halcro and Parasound, and in fact, there are very significant similarities in hardware, feature set and menu structures. Based on an initial quick look to be further confirmed, the similarity is so large and so obvious it strongly suggests they are from the same OEM platform from Vinci. I need to look a bit more to be sure. A quick look at Lexicon, Integra, NAD and Cary show significant differences in hardware, feature set and menu structure. I need to look at these more, but my first guess is none of these are related to each other. Just to anticipate arguments: this methodology of course does not detect outsourcing of parts, component boards or whole electronic subassemblies (e.g. the Vinci SSP & HDMI boards) where the SSP vendor does the integration and firmware. It simply says "if there is a detectable structural similarity, then its likely they are the same pre-integrated OEM platform". I will post my findings once I get further into this. Last edited by Eric Carroll; 01-12-08 at 01:39 PM..