Suggestions for Epson 1080 UB vs. AE2000 shootout

foofoobar · 01-10-08, 10:47 PM

Edit: Link to UB review with lots of pictures:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post12787075

Yes folks -- you read that right -- I have both of them lined up side up side. I have already made up my mind about which one I am going to keep, but won't spoil the suspense

.

So, for a short time only, any recommendations on what I should capture for those still on the fence?

I can play HD versions of the following:

Phantom of the Opera
2001 : A Space Odyssey
Blade Runner
King Kong
The Shining
We Were Soldiers

SD-DVDs recommendations will be welcome too (upconverted to 1080p using the Reon in the Onkyo 905).

So fire away (PM might be better so as to not clutter the forum)

...

42Plasma · 01-10-08, 11:22 PM

I'd like to see comparisons about black levels, overall color balance and sharpness. My suggestion is use King Kong and We are Soldiers.

I am on the fence on what to upgrade to from my Samsung 710 projector. Any suggestions?

Thanks

suffolk112000 · 01-10-08, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foofoobar

Yes folks -- you read that right -- I have both of them lined up side up side. I have already made up my mind about which one I am going to keep, but won't spoil the suspense

.

So, for a short time only, any recommendations on what I should capture for those still on the fence?

I can play HD versions of the following:

Phantom of the Opera
2001 : A Space Odyssey
Blade Runner
King Kong
The Shining
We Were Soldiers

SD-DVDs recommendations will be welcome too (upconverted to 1080p using the Reon in the Onkyo 905).

So fire away (PM might be better so as to not clutter the forum)

...

Well, I would like to hear your opinion as to how each handles SD-DVD's, Sports in HD and of course HD-DVD or BD movies.
You could start off by telling us about your room environment. Are your walls dark. What color is your carpet and ceiling. Is the room light controlled? What is your throw distance? What kind of screen are you using? Screen size. Seating distance to the screen? Will you be measuring these units straight out of the box or will you be calibrating them. What is the method of calibrating the projectors?
Is this going to be your first projector purchase?
Sorry…

But you did ask if we had questions.

Craig

Steve Dodds · 01-10-08, 11:33 PM

I'd be curious about best brightness, and brightness in best modes. Plus of course black levels and shadow detail. Bladerunner is ideal for that.

I wouldn't delay too long with results either. Folk get mighty impatient around here.

foofoobar · 01-11-08, 12:19 AM

Some quick answers about the environment for the impatient

:

PJ newbie: Yes, but pretty well read thanks to avsforums

Screen: FocusPix Grey1.8, 106" diagonal (1.8 gain). Top of screen is ~2.5' from ceiling (room restrictions)
Room: 20' long with 9+ ' ceilings
Throw distance: About 14' feet; PJ mounted at 6' 4" to account for retroflective screen
Seating: About 10'
Ambient light control: Very good / excellent. Can be made pitch dark esp. at night if wife permits

. On the minus side, walls are painted beige with a tan carpet; door 16' away and diametrically opposite is bright white.

edved1 · 01-11-08, 09:16 AM

I'm interested in the outcome. When is this gonna take place?

Thanks.

Ishmael198 · 01-11-08, 09:55 AM

It should've already happened, I need to know now! NOW!!!

Seriously though, looking forward to your comments and I echo the thoughts on brightness and black levels.

Also curious how the Epson out of the box best colour modes (and its new xvColour mode??) compare to the Panny's (whose out of box colour accuracy is touted as excellent).

Thanks in advance for your time and thoughts!

timell · 01-11-08, 10:29 AM

foofoobar,

Since you've already made up your mind, I'm assuming the shootout has already happened. What I'd like to know is, are the projectors close in performance or does one completely blow away the other? (10 vs. 9 or 10 vs. 6) My main areas of interests are brightness, (I've got a big screen and a long throw so I need lumens at the best color mode), contrast/film look (my main use will be watching movies and I'm looking to recreate the cinema at home and really enjoy the 3D look), and finally sharpness (Blu-ray player for HD and SD).

Because I've got a 2.35 screen, the panasonic will probably get my business since it does the vertical stretch without the need for a scaler. But if I had to guess, I bet these projectors are probably fairly evenly matched with one or the other fitting into your setup better than the other. (placement, brightness, contrast, black levels, noise, focus, aesthetics, dust, etc.) Hopefully both projectors have good convergence and uniformity so that the playing field was level.

Can't wait to read the outcome

pottscb · 01-11-08, 01:44 PM

I'd be interested mainly in HD content with the following comparisons:
-Sharpness (soft, sharp, or tack sharp)
-Contrast (how punchy are each in mixed content)
-Black Levels (do either give that inky feel with an all black image? How dark are the 2.35 letterbox bars?)
-Upscaling/deinterlacing of DVD, do both pjs outperform, say, an oppo 981 or similar?
-Relative shadow detail
-Any image "deal breakers"?

Thanks for doing this for all of us...

olinda cat · 01-11-08, 02:17 PM

Both of these are on my short list, and would love to see how convergence and sharpness compare.Thank's John

st_o_p · 01-11-08, 02:21 PM

And noise

foofoobar · 01-11-08, 02:22 PM

BTW, I made my choice using a totally unscientific and subjective "je ne se qua" feeling, using two uncalibrated PJs.

The reason for asking for suggestions was that I may not be as discerning as some of you. If you know any specific shots in certain movies that might help you make a choice between A and B, please let me know.

I was planning on capturing the screen shots tonight and hopefully the environment will work for the "other projector" that has been already been dismounted.

Ishmael198 · 01-11-08, 04:17 PM

I don't think many will make their decision based on your screen shots, more interested in what you have to say.

rsprance · 01-11-08, 04:57 PM

Why don't you just tell us what you prefer? Many people are waiting to buy one of these and it would be helpful. We don't come for the suspense, we come for the knowledge!

Wilson-Flyer · 01-11-08, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsprance

Why don't you just tell us what you prefer? Many people are waiting to buy one of these and it would be helpful. We don't come for the suspense, we come for the knowledge!

You got that right.

I'm ordering one or the other in the next 3-5 days. Tired of waiting. I'd like to know what the guy thinks and I'd like Art to get his dang review posted for the UB.

TenaCJed · 01-11-08, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilson-Flyer

You got that right.

I'm ordering one or the other in the next 3-5 days. Tired of waiting. I'd like to know what the guy thinks and I'd like Art to get his dang review posted for the UB.

+1 and +1

tdsandme · 01-11-08, 06:28 PM

I would like your opinion on which one has less motion blur with fast camera pans.

Thanks!

bass addict · 01-11-08, 06:45 PM

If I wanted suspense I'd read a book. Post your impressions already.

KBMAN · 01-11-08, 07:09 PM

Well, I haven't seen the panny, but I couldn't imagine that the picture could get any better with my TW2000, aka Epson 1080UB. The epson is PLENTY BRIGHT and the colors just dance off the screen. Sharpness is great, but more film-like, which is what I was looking for. It IS sharper than your typical cineplex. Epson has less problems and is built to last! Black levels are scary-good. Just my .o2

Ter

KBMAN · 01-11-08, 07:11 PM

Btw,
The Poster Should Be Shot. Just Kiddin

RobZ · 01-11-08, 07:19 PM

Most of the current crop of 1080p projectors are excellent in bright scenes. The $1350 Mitsubishi HC4900 is even top notch in that department. I want to see what the Epson can do with black and shadow detail. The VW60 is very good when the iris is choked down, the AE2000u is close. How's the Epson with movies like Underworld or Dark City? I'm tired of comparing my projectors to the 34" Sony CRT in my bedroom!

Brajesh · 01-11-08, 07:40 PM

These two PJs are on the top of my short list, with the Mits HC4900 being the wildcard for nearly $1,300 less! Looking to upgrade to 1080p from my 720p Mits HC3000U, which already set the bar pretty high for my next PJ.

ricwhite · 01-11-08, 07:48 PM

Personally, I don't think it's a hard choice. I think the Epson (from what I have read) is a notch above the Panasonic. The better battle would be between the Epson 1080 UB and the Mitsubishi HC6000. That one is a toss-up, I would think.

I just received my 1080 UB and I'll be watching some movies tonight. Unlike the OP, I'll post my impressions and feelings as soon as I have some. This "I'm not going to tell you yet" crap is rather ridiculous.

42Plasma · 01-11-08, 08:03 PM

Look forward to your input and feedback Ric.

My freind and I are both waiting to order a new projector., possibly the Epson.

bass addict · 01-11-08, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricwhite

This "I'm not going to tell you yet" crap is rather ridiculous.

I agree, it's not the third grade. The only shortcoming I can see with the UB, is lack of VS, oh and the fact you can't get it in black. I love my TW700 and were it not for the fact of foreseeable SDE w/ the move from a 96" 1.78 to a 130" 2.35 I wouldn't feel the need to upgrade. It certainly helps that Epson's CS is top notch.

While I liked my AE900 for the little while I had it, the glaring QC issues on Panny's latest crop of PJ's is very disconcerting.

RobZ · 01-11-08, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricwhite

Personally, I don't think it's a hard choice. I think the Epson (from what I have read) is a notch above the Panasonic. The better battle would be between the Epson 1080 UB and the Mitsubishi HC6000. That one is a toss-up, I would think.

Doesn't the 1080UB have the D7 LCD panel and the Mitsubishi a D6?

ricwhite · 01-11-08, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobZ

Doesn't the 1080UB have the D7 LCD panel and the Mitsubishi a D6?

Yes, but the Mits is getting very good preliminary reviews -- even with the D6 panels. There is some talk about a new Mitsubishi HC6050 that has the D7 panels.

RobZ · 01-11-08, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricwhite

Yes, but the Mits is getting very good preliminary reviews -- even with the D6 panels. There is some talk about a new Mitsubishi HC6050 that has the D7 panels.

Good news for future buyers but that sucks for those getting ready to buy the 6000.

jstaylor83 · 01-11-08, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KBMAN

Sharpness is great, but more film-like, which is what I was looking for. It IS sharper than your typical cineplex.

This is a novice question but what does "film-like" really mean? What does something look like when it is "film-like" as opposed to not "film-like"?

Lance S · 01-11-08, 11:21 PM

"Filmlike" means that it is not over-sharp. There are PJ's available that have such a sharp image that it is considered by some to be over sharp or un-"filmlike". Film has a tendency to be more of a smooth picture, one that flows more and is not quite as rigid as some of the PJ's offered.

01-10-08, 10:47 PM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
foofoobar Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 275	Suggestions for Epson 1080 UB vs. AE2000 shootout Edit: Link to UB review with lots of pictures: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post12787075 Yes folks -- you read that right -- I have both of them lined up side up side. I have already made up my mind about which one I am going to keep, but won't spoil the suspense . So, for a short time only, any recommendations on what I should capture for those still on the fence? I can play HD versions of the following: Phantom of the Opera 2001 : A Space Odyssey Blade Runner King Kong The Shining We Were Soldiers SD-DVDs recommendations will be welcome too (upconverted to 1080p using the Reon in the Onkyo 905). So fire away (PM might be better so as to not clutter the forum) ... Last edited by foofoobar; 01-12-08 at 01:36 AM..

01-10-08, 11:33 PM	#4 \| Link
Steve Dodds AVS Special Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: San Francisco, now Australia Posts: 2,607	I'd be curious about best brightness, and brightness in best modes. Plus of course black levels and shadow detail. Bladerunner is ideal for that. I wouldn't delay too long with results either. Folk get mighty impatient around here. __________________ My DIY Dipoles Read My Book

01-11-08, 12:19 AM	#5 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
foofoobar Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 275	Some quick answers about the environment for the impatient : PJ newbie: Yes, but pretty well read thanks to avsforums Screen: FocusPix Grey1.8, 106" diagonal (1.8 gain). Top of screen is ~2.5' from ceiling (room restrictions) Room: 20' long with 9+ ' ceilings Throw distance: About 14' feet; PJ mounted at 6' 4" to account for retroflective screen Seating: About 10' Ambient light control: Very good / excellent. Can be made pitch dark esp. at night if wife permits . On the minus side, walls are painted beige with a tan carpet; door 16' away and diametrically opposite is bright white. Last edited by foofoobar; 01-11-08 at 01:36 AM..

01-11-08, 02:17 PM	#10 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
olinda cat Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: maui Posts: 181	Both of these are on my short list, and would love to see how convergence and sharpness compare.Thank's John

01-11-08, 02:22 PM	#12 \| Link
foofoobar Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 275	BTW, I made my choice using a totally unscientific and subjective "je ne se qua" feeling, using two uncalibrated PJs. The reason for asking for suggestions was that I may not be as discerning as some of you. If you know any specific shots in certain movies that might help you make a choice between A and B, please let me know. I was planning on capturing the screen shots tonight and hopefully the environment will work for the "other projector" that has been already been dismounted. Last edited by foofoobar; 01-11-08 at 02:33 PM..

01-10-08, 11:22 PM	#2 \| Link
42Plasma Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 73	I'd like to see comparisons about black levels, overall color balance and sharpness. My suggestion is use King Kong and We are Soldiers. I am on the fence on what to upgrade to from my Samsung 710 projector. Any suggestions? Thanks

01-11-08, 09:16 AM	#6 \| Link
edved1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 330	I'm interested in the outcome. When is this gonna take place? Thanks.

01-11-08, 09:55 AM	#7 \| Link
Ishmael198 Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 185	It should've already happened, I need to know now! NOW!!! Seriously though, looking forward to your comments and I echo the thoughts on brightness and black levels. Also curious how the Epson out of the box best colour modes (and its new xvColour mode??) compare to the Panny's (whose out of box colour accuracy is touted as excellent). Thanks in advance for your time and thoughts!

01-11-08, 10:29 AM	#8 \| Link
timell Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 16	foofoobar, Since you've already made up your mind, I'm assuming the shootout has already happened. What I'd like to know is, are the projectors close in performance or does one completely blow away the other? (10 vs. 9 or 10 vs. 6) My main areas of interests are brightness, (I've got a big screen and a long throw so I need lumens at the best color mode), contrast/film look (my main use will be watching movies and I'm looking to recreate the cinema at home and really enjoy the 3D look), and finally sharpness (Blu-ray player for HD and SD). Because I've got a 2.35 screen, the panasonic will probably get my business since it does the vertical stretch without the need for a scaler. But if I had to guess, I bet these projectors are probably fairly evenly matched with one or the other fitting into your setup better than the other. (placement, brightness, contrast, black levels, noise, focus, aesthetics, dust, etc.) Hopefully both projectors have good convergence and uniformity so that the playing field was level. Can't wait to read the outcome

01-11-08, 01:44 PM	#9 \| Link
pottscb Advanced Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 839	I'd be interested mainly in HD content with the following comparisons: -Sharpness (soft, sharp, or tack sharp) -Contrast (how punchy are each in mixed content) -Black Levels (do either give that inky feel with an all black image? How dark are the 2.35 letterbox bars?) -Upscaling/deinterlacing of DVD, do both pjs outperform, say, an oppo 981 or similar? -Relative shadow detail -Any image "deal breakers"? Thanks for doing this for all of us...

01-11-08, 02:21 PM	#11 \| Link
st_o_p Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 330	And noise

01-11-08, 04:17 PM	#13 \| Link
Ishmael198 Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 185	I don't think many will make their decision based on your screen shots, more interested in what you have to say.

01-11-08, 04:57 PM	#14 \| Link
rsprance Advanced Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 627	Why don't you just tell us what you prefer? Many people are waiting to buy one of these and it would be helpful. We don't come for the suspense, we come for the knowledge! __________________ Rob "The Arthouse"..MY HT Thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=897055

01-11-08, 06:28 PM	#17 \| Link
tdsandme Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Frankfurt/M., Germany Posts: 77	I would like your opinion on which one has less motion blur with fast camera pans. Thanks!

01-11-08, 06:45 PM	#18 \| Link
bass addict witty statement here AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,340 Classified Rating: 100% (6)	If I wanted suspense I'd read a book. Post your impressions already. __________________ HT isn't a hobby, it's a sickness (just ask my wife).

01-11-08, 07:09 PM	#19 \| Link
KBMAN Advanced Human Being Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Grass Valley, CA Posts: 1,541 Classified Rating: 100% (2)	Well, I haven't seen the panny, but I couldn't imagine that the picture could get any better with my TW2000, aka Epson 1080UB. The epson is PLENTY BRIGHT and the colors just dance off the screen. Sharpness is great, but more film-like, which is what I was looking for. It IS sharper than your typical cineplex. Epson has less problems and is built to last! Black levels are scary-good. Just my .o2 Ter __________________ Terrence "Hey Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a man...."No, have you?"

01-11-08, 07:11 PM	#20 \| Link
KBMAN Advanced Human Being Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Grass Valley, CA Posts: 1,541 Classified Rating: 100% (2)	Btw, The Poster Should Be Shot. Just Kiddin __________________ Terrence "Hey Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a man...."No, have you?"

01-11-08, 07:19 PM	#21 \| Link
RobZ AVS Special Member AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,210 Classified Rating: 96% (22)	Most of the current crop of 1080p projectors are excellent in bright scenes. The $1350 Mitsubishi HC4900 is even top notch in that department. I want to see what the Epson can do with black and shadow detail. The VW60 is very good when the iris is choked down, the AE2000u is close. How's the Epson with movies like Underworld or Dark City? I'm tired of comparing my projectors to the 34" Sony CRT in my bedroom! __________________ My "Who Says You Need A Dedicated Room?" HT Thread Pioneer Elite PRO-FPJ1(RS2),9ft Wide HP,Panasonic Plasma,Klipsch THX Ultra II,SVS PB13 Ultra, Hsu MBM-12

01-11-08, 07:40 PM	#22 \| Link
Brajesh AVS Special Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Georgia on my Mind Posts: 3,290 Classified Rating: 100% (35)	These two PJs are on the top of my short list, with the Mits HC4900 being the wildcard for nearly $1,300 less! Looking to upgrade to 1080p from my 720p Mits HC3000U, which already set the bar pretty high for my next PJ. __________________ HD fan(t)a(s)tic: Panasonic AE4000U 1080p/24 with 2.37:1 126" Da-Lite HP screen and HD media in any format!

01-11-08, 07:48 PM	#23 \| Link
ricwhite AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Layton, Utah Posts: 2,579	Personally, I don't think it's a hard choice. I think the Epson (from what I have read) is a notch above the Panasonic. The better battle would be between the Epson 1080 UB and the Mitsubishi HC6000. That one is a toss-up, I would think. I just received my 1080 UB and I'll be watching some movies tonight. Unlike the OP, I'll post my impressions and feelings as soon as I have some. This "I'm not going to tell you yet" crap is rather ridiculous.

01-11-08, 08:03 PM	#24 \| Link
42Plasma Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 73	Look forward to your input and feedback Ric. My freind and I are both waiting to order a new projector., possibly the Epson.

01-11-08, 11:21 PM	#30 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
Lance S Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Grand Haven, Mi Posts: 125	"Filmlike" means that it is not over-sharp. There are PJ's available that have such a sharp image that it is considered by some to be over sharp or un-"filmlike". Film has a tendency to be more of a smooth picture, one that flows more and is not quite as rigid as some of the PJ's offered.