Panasonic HDC-SD9 Pre-release

[rbouch8828]

Does anyone know what the size of the image sensors are? I can't find it on any of the sites that have reported on it?

[shaggnasty]

1/6", according to this...

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...-HS9-34030.htm

[rbouch8828]

Originally Posted by shaggnasty

1/6", according to this...

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...-HS9-34030.htm

Thanks for the info. I had hoped they were 1/3", but I guess that would have meant a bigger camera. I am looking forward to test results.

[Mayhemm]

Panasonic kind of dropped the ball with this camcorder. I give them props for the added features (1080p@17Mbps, Face-detection, 5.1 Mic, and Advanced O.I.S.) but they did three things in the usability/connectivity department that may have lost them my business.

1) Moving the joystick from the back of the camcorder to the LCD cavity on the left. No more one-handed operation (if that's important to you).

2) Hiding the HDMI and AC connector behind the battery. You have to remove the battery to access them.

3) Making the HDMI connection a mini. Now I have to go and buy a new cable to carry around wherever I go because nobody else will have one.

If they would have left these things alone, it would have been very near perfect (IMO, of course). Respect minus, Panasonic.

[talbain]

the only thing keeping this from being THE prosumer hd cam imo is the lack of mic and headset jacks. also, i'm not yet convinced that flash-exclusive recording is ready for primetime just yet. the cards are still a bit too expensive and too small to be practical for anything other than occasional use.

still, this is one sexy camcorder, and the price is right...

[rbouch8828]

Originally Posted by Mayhemm

Panasonic kind of dropped the ball with this camcorder. I give them props for the added features (1080p@17Mbps, Face-detection, 5.1 Mic, and Advanced O.I.S.) but they did three things in the usability/connectivity department that may have lost them my business.

1) Moving the joystick from the back of the camcorder to the LCD cavity on the left. No more one-handed operation (if that's important to you).

2) Hiding the HDMI and AC connector behind the battery. You have to remove the battery to access them.

3) Making the HDMI connection a mini. Now I have to go and buy a new cable to carry around wherever I go because nobody else will have one.

If they would have left these things alone, it would have been very near perfect (IMO, of course). Respect minus, Panasonic.

I think that making the world's smallest HDTV CamCorder requires that connectors be moved or reduced in size.

I would like an audio in connector too, but I think for the first attempt at a 1080P camcorder in the smallest package out there, they have done a magnificent job. I just can't wait to see the test results.

Panasonic gets an A- from me, pending the video trials. Would have been an A+ if there had been an audio in connector.

[Mayhemm]

Originally Posted by talbain

the only thing keeping this from being THE prosumer hd cam imo is the lack of mic and headset jacks. also, i'm not yet convinced that flash-exclusive recording is ready for primetime just yet. the cards are still a bit too expensive and too small to be practical for anything other than occasional use.

I forgot about the lack of mic/headphone jacks. Panasonic got that wrong too. However, I actually think SDHC is pretty affordable (I've seen 8GB class 6 cards going from $50-$100). They're not very speedy compared to, say, the new UDMA compactflash cards (6MB/s Vs. 45MB/s) but they're essentially only handling 2 megapixel images, so 6MB/s should be enough for now. Plus there are 16GB and 32GB models debuting soon; perhaps a new speed class is coming with them. These new cards will probably shoot longer than the battery lasts.

Originally Posted by rbouch8828

I think that making the world's smallest HDTV CamCorder requires that connectors be moved or reduced in size.

I would like an audio in connector too, but I think for the first attempt at a 1080P camcorder in the smallest package out there, they have done a magnificent job. I just can't wait to see the test results.

You're right about the sacrifices that must be made for smaller size. I just wish they had opted to prioritize usability/connectivity over shrinking dimensions. I mean, the SD9 is smaller than the SD5, and even it was almost too small (for my big mitts, anyway)

Despite all my complaining, I'll still probably get one. Does anybody know if it has an A/V-IN for analog pass-through? I doubt it, but it would be nice to use it to transfer old stuff to my PC.

[rbouch8828]

Here is one quick review: http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...view-34280.htm

[rbouch8828]

And here is another review from the UK: http://www.simplydv.co.uk/Reviews/pa...c_hdc-sd9.html

[Ken Ross]

Originally Posted by Mayhemm

Panasonic kind of dropped the ball with this camcorder. I give them props for the added features (1080p@17Mbps,

17Mbps? Can anyone confirm this? The SD5 was only 13Mbps. I thought the upcoming Canon was the only show in town for 17Mbps. I tend to think the datarate is unchanged or these 'first look' reviews would have mentioned it. Going from 13-17 would have been a huge change.

[Mayhemm]

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

17Mbps? Can anyone confirm this? The SD5 was only 13Mbps. I thought the upcoming Canon was the only show in town for 17Mbps. I tend to think the datarate is unchanged or these 'first look' reviews would have mentioned it. Going from 13-17 would have been a huge change.

I just got it from the "compression" section of CamcorderInfo's preview (the link is given in post #8). However, there may not be any truth to it since they incorrectly list the SD5 as recording at 15Mbps.

[Ken Ross]

Wow! I didn't see that. But yes, the 5 only recorded at 13Mbps, so who knows if their info is correct. The British review mentioned nothing about it.

[rbouch8828]

Maybe the 17mbps figure is with the 5.1 audio added in.

[Ear Whiskers]

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

17Mbps? Can anyone confirm this? The SD5 was only 13Mbps. I thought the upcoming Canon was the only show in town for 17Mbps. I tend to think the datarate is unchanged or these 'first look' reviews would have mentioned it. Going from 13-17 would have been a huge change.

The SD9 is my safety camera, with the Canon HF10/100 my main choice.

Is it safe to assume that the SD9 should, at least, have equal picture quality to that of the SD5?

I have the link to the Panasonic global site that confirms the 17Mbps bit rate... next post.

[Ear Whiskers]

Ok, sorry about the double post but I needed 3 posts under belt before I could post the link:

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/v...fications.html

[talbain]

the new panasonic is 17mbps, as are the new canons. the new sonys are 16mbps.

for me it's going to come down to the sd9, the canon hf10 or the sony sdr12. each to me has at least one significant flaw...

sd9 (pros) - amazing size. 17mbps. sd media. manual aperture/shutter control
sd9 (cons) - no built in storage. 16gb cards are expensive. no mic or headset jack...

hf10 (pros) - built in 16gb storage to use as safety or backup. sd media. manual aperture/shutter control
hf10 (cons) - 16gb cards are expensive

sr12 (pros) - built in 120gb hard drive. gorgeous large lcd screen. fantastic still capabilities
sr12 (cons) - proprietary memory stick format. no manual shutter/aperture controls. 16mbps vs. 17 for the others

very tough choices...

[Ken Ross]

Originally Posted by Ear Whiskers

Ok, sorry about the double post but I needed 3 posts under belt before I could post the link:

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/v...fications.html

Wow! Very impressive! For me it will be either the Canon HF10 or this Panny. This little Panny has a lot of features that are really interesting. In the end though, picture quality will win out.

[AnttiP]

Keep in mind that SD9 is 17 mbps VBR vs. SD5's 13 mbps CBR. Say SD9's bit rate range is app. 14-20 mbps vs. SD5's 13 mbps, that is over 50% increase at max. bit rate.

[Ear Whiskers]

Originally Posted by talbain

for me it's going to come down to the sd9, the canon hf10 or the sony sdr12.

For my needs, the HDD Sony is not on the list...

Maybe Sony will release the replacement for the CX7 before either the SD9 or Canon's HF begins shipping.

[Ken Ross]

Originally Posted by AnttiP

Keep in mind that SD9 is 17 mbps VBR vs. SD5's 13 mbps CBR. Say SD9's bit rate range is app. 14-20 mbps vs. SD5's 13 mbps, that is over 50% increase at max. bit rate.

Not sure I'd interpret it that way. I would think it means that the max is 17mbps and can go below that for less demanding scenes.

[AnttiP]

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

Not sure I'd interpret it that way. I would think it means that the max is 17mbps and can go below that for less demanding scenes.

Look at the link below:

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/v...fications.html

and table called Motion Picture Recording time

Recording time 2 hours at HA (max bit rate) for a 16 GB sdhc card

Doing the math:

16000*8/(3600*2)=17.8 mbps

Gives you THE AVERAGE bit rate

Atleast Sony has been using somewhat symmetrical bit rate aroud its average bit rate of 15 mbps.

ap

[rbouch8828]

Not sure what the comment

Atleast Sony has been using somewhat symmetrical bit rate aroud its average bit rate of 15 mbps.

is meant to say. Does anyone know what the audio component of the 17mbs number is and whether Sony includes audio in their number?

[rbouch8828]

Last year Panasonic introduced a "prosumer" version of their new HD consumer camera at NAB. Has anyone heard anything about plans to introduce a "prosumer" model of the HDC-SD9? Perhaps with mic input and headphone output?

[johnswright]

What are the main differences with the sd5?

[rbouch8828]

Originally Posted by johnswright

What are the main differences with the sd5?

SD9 has no hard drive.

[herov]

Just purchased one via pre-order at Bestbuy. For the wife. Should meet all her needs.

[hdspringer98]

I was just on the panny website and it appears one can actually order this camcorder now. I put it in my cart and it didn't say "backordered". Haven't ordered as I have a bunch of BB gift cards I'm going to use so once it hits bb I'll be checking it out.

[DaveKennett]

sd5 doesn't have a hard drive!

Biggest differences I remember:
24p
17Mb/s (13Mb/s max in sd5)
battery and card? access in the rear (bottom access in sd5 required removal from tripod)
joystick behind screen instead of thumb operated in the rear

I just got sd5. Not sure how workable joystick will be behind screen

Dave

[budyl]

I just picked one up in Fullerton,CA CC store.

Good luck. Better hurry.

[herov]

there out? For real?

I ordered mine from BB.com hope it ships soon!