The $800 Moxi MR-1500T3 DVR - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 39 Old 02-12-2009, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Digeo's Moxi HD Digital Video Recorder is a full-featured DVR with an easy-to-use Emmy-award winning user-interface, and no monthly fees...ever.

Key Features:

* CableCARD Support: With a digital cable subscription and a broadband connection, you're ready to enjoy content from your cable company, your PC, and the Internet.
* No Monthly Subscription Fees: Unlike other DVRs, once you've bought a Moxi HD DVR, you're done paying.
* Tons of Space: A 500 GB hard drive provides up to 75 hours of HD and 300 hours of SD Programming.
* 1080p Support: A Moxi HD DVR supports both 1080p 24 & 30 Hz, along with 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i.
* No Advertising: Other digital video recorders place ads on everything; the Moxi Menu doesn't.
* Browsing Options: Search for a specific show, browse full screen, take the entire guide forward in time. Moxi's got you covered however you like to browse TV.
* Multimedia Fun: Enjoy your HD photos, MP3 collection, and Internet content right from your TV.
* Award-Winning Interface: The Moxi Menu is the only user interface with both HD graphics and an Emmy Award.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It looks like a TiVo beater or a replacement for the Sony DHG-HDD500 but there is a caveat on the Moxi site (Tech Specs) that says:
The easy-to-use Moxi Menu with no monthly fees* (*Free registration required. Future services and features may be subject to additional fees.)

That worries me, I'm now reluctant to buy one.

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post #2 of 39 Old 02-12-2009, 01:50 PM
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All of the features you see listed on the moxi.com site will never have an additional fee associated with it. If those features sound worth the initial price, go for it.

It's not surprising they would leave it open for future fees because they may partner with other companies to bring additional optional features.
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post #3 of 39 Old 02-12-2009, 03:45 PM
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However the device doesn't have OTA or analog cable reception capabilities. Even ignoring OTA, there are still a *lot* of cable systems with SD channels transmitted in analog form. For a lot of customers, that's a pretty big limitation. I did see something on their site about a dongle of some sort for analog reception though; my immediate question would be how much extra they're going to get you for for that part. Also, you have to have broadband to get guide data. I've heard good things about the Moxi UI, but this device sounds somewhat feature-poor.
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post #4 of 39 Old 02-12-2009, 04:20 PM
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The analog dongle is free if you buy it, although you do have to send in for it. The whole analog thing won't matter anyway for cable subscribers come June. But yeah, I've heard the OTA thing brought up a number of times as a lacking feature.
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post #5 of 39 Old 02-12-2009, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohallik View Post

The analog dongle is free if you buy it, although you do have to send in for it. The whole analog thing won't matter anyway for cable subscribers come June. But yeah, I've heard the OTA thing brought up a number of times as a lacking feature.

Erm, I think you're confused. The digital switchover *only* affects OTA broadcasts. Cable systems aren't required to switch to digital until sometime in 2012. Some cable systems are going all-digital now, but there are *a LOT* that aren't yet, and probably won't for some time. So yes, not having analog is a pretty significant deficiency. If they provide you the dongle for free, that's nice, but the fact that you have to jump through hoops for functionality they're providing for no additional cost is a bit of a head scratcher.
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post #6 of 39 Old 02-12-2009, 10:01 PM
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Keep in mind that you can eliminate the monthly fees on a TivoHD with a $399 lifetime subscription. Moxi basically includes the lifetime subscription as part of the purchase price, whereas TiVo charges for it separately.

TivoHD 160GB = $199 at Sears + $399 = $598
TivoHD 1000GB = ~$520 + $399 = ~$920
Moxi 500GB = $799

All three support external drive expansion.

You can buy the TivoHD 160GB and upgrade it to 1TB for about $100.

The Moxi and TivoHD both use processors that support 1080p24 and 1080p30 output. The Moxi has the advantage of a newer/faster processor, a true 16:9 HD UI, and clearQAM mapping. The TivoHD has an older/slower processor, uses a 4:3 UI on a 16:9 HD background, and does not support clearQAM mapping. The TivoHD has the advantage of better DVR functionality, analog cable support, and OTA support.

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[Cable co] Moxi 3012 DVR Q&A and Discussion Thread
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post #7 of 39 Old 02-13-2009, 09:37 AM
 
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The lack of the ATSC tuner is a killer for me. The fact that the TiVo is arguably $100 less expensive, on a like-to-like basis will keep the Moxi from going anywhere for now. Once it drops $100, then it might start getting interesting.
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post #8 of 39 Old 02-14-2009, 07:29 AM
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Yep, I think competition in this space (Cablecard DVR's) is sorely needed, but right now at the current price, and the current feature set, the Moxi is not it. It doesn't even support networkability between multiple units, which should be taken for granted now.
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post #9 of 39 Old 02-14-2009, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Yep, I think competition in this space (Cablecard DVR's) is sorely needed, but right now at the current price, and the current feature set, the Moxi is not it. It doesn't even support networkability between multiple units, which should be taken for granted now.

It seems like they consider the "Moxi Mate" extender to be their "good enough" answer to that particular question.
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post #10 of 39 Old 02-14-2009, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonfoo View Post

However the device doesn't have OTA or analog cable reception capabilities. Even ignoring OTA, there are still a *lot* of cable systems with SD channels transmitted in analog form. For a lot of customers, that's a pretty big limitation. I did see something on their site about a dongle of some sort for analog reception though; my immediate question would be how much extra they're going to get you for for that part. Also, you have to have broadband to get guide data. I've heard good things about the Moxi UI, but this device sounds somewhat feature-poor.

That's definitely a deal breaker for me. Obviously they catered to the cable industry which does NOT want us to even think ota. It's a seriously flawed box in it's current form.

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post #11 of 39 Old 02-14-2009, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Yep, I think competition in this space (Cablecard DVR's) is sorely needed

I think it'd be nice to see more competition, but without enough demand to make it interesting for another party, there won't be additional players jumping into the market. These devices require a fair amount of expenditure in parts, manufacturing, licensing and software development to produce - and as I'm sure bicker1 would point out, TiVo isn't even selling what they've got profitably (even with the service fees accounted for). That combined with Americans' penchant for leasing instead of buying outright is going to discourage further competition in the business.
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post #12 of 39 Old 02-15-2009, 04:28 AM
 
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Actually, a small update on that. TiVo actually is doing okay, considering the economy. We could finally be reaching the point where a reasonable business case could start being made for producing such devices.

To be clear, though, there is competition: TiVo HD and the Moxi are competitors. $700 and $800 are reasonable prices for these devices, given the current costs. There is no question that competition will reduce those prices even further over the next year. I bet we'll see a $600 price-point by this time next year.

Folks expecting lower prices now aren't hoping for the effects of competition -- they're wishing for miracles.
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post #13 of 39 Old 02-15-2009, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker1 View Post

There is no question that competition will reduce those prices even further over the next year. I bet we'll see a $600 price-point by this time next year.

But to get that sort of price drop, there'd have to be sufficient demand for the product. Do you really think there is enough demand for a retail DVR to allow prices to drop? I have my doubts - it seems like they'd sell more of them if that were the case. (They being both Moxi and TiVo.)
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post #14 of 39 Old 02-15-2009, 08:39 AM
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It was certainly the case for me. There's no way I would've bought the S3 at the price they asked for it, but when the HD came out I waited a bit and picked up one from Amazon for $225. Much more reasonable.
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post #15 of 39 Old 02-15-2009, 11:11 AM
 
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A drop from $700 today to $600 a year from now isn't really going to be that difficult. No, demand isn't going to skyrocket, but you don't need such a spike in demand to reduce prices that much; it can be accomplished in part through cost optimization as well.
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post #16 of 39 Old 04-05-2009, 04:58 PM
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I traded email with Digeo about the MOXI in a clear QAM environment with no cablecard. They say it will work and set itself up for the clear channels automatically. There is also a 30 day return policy.

The link to Amazon from the MOXI site is setup as a purchase from Digeo with Amazon completing the transaction. As a result, the order form quotes California sales tax. I took the escape link from that, and logged into Amazon directly. Amazon ships from outside California, so the order had no sales tax and no shipping charge. I added a couple of books to the order, since the shipping would be free.

One of the Amazon reviews claimed there is a problem with clear QAM setup, but I have the email from MOXI saying otherwise.

I'll report on the results.

I have been fighting the TVGOS problems with the Sony DHG-HDD500. If the MOXI works out, I plan to put the Sony on eBay. Someone sold a SONY for $799 a week or two ago. The Sony has also sold for less than $600 in an auction. The market varies. My TVGOS schedule has been filling in, now that I have a PBS analog again. Some guy in Hawaii claims that his all-digital environment works fine for the SONY. It seems to vary from market to market.
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post #17 of 39 Old 04-11-2009, 06:20 PM
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The story about problems (missing channels) for clear QAM are true. So, you need a cablecard. It seems to record and playback properly.

Recording options can be set, but the defaults for those options cannot. Thus, for each new timer one may need to go through all the options. For example: If you set a recording quickly by defaults, it will erase itself after two days by default. You have to specifically change the option to various choices including -until space is needed.

Their support is quick to help.

No glitches. Good normal HD picture.

They can update software via the internet connection, so I expect the user interface will improve with time.
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post #18 of 39 Old 04-11-2009, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubit100 View Post

The story about problems (missing channels) for clear QAM are true. So, you need a cablecard. It seems to record and playback properly.

Can you explain?

Are you missing HD locals without a CableCard?

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Originally Posted by Cubit100 View Post

Recording options can be set, but the defaults for those options cannot. Thus, for each new timer one may need to go through all the options. For example: If you set a recording quickly by defaults, it will erase itself after two days by default. You have to specifically change the option to various choices including -until space is needed.

That can't be right, can it?

Do you mean that the recording is "protected" for two days, after which time it can be deleted if space is needed for a new recording? I can't imagine that the default would be to delete a recording after two days.
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post #19 of 39 Old 04-13-2009, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Do you mean that the recording is "protected" for two days, after which time it can be deleted if space is needed for a new recording? I can't imagine that the default would be to delete a recording after two days.

You are correct on this. Cubit100 can relax (a little). Recordings don't disappear automatically after two days.

Moxi behavior on this is very similar to TiVo. Expired recordings are deleted only when space is needed--beginning with the earliest expiration date. So if you have an "expired" show that's three days old and others that are even older, your three-day old show will stick around until it's the earliest available show to delete.
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post #20 of 39 Old 04-17-2009, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Can you explain?

Are you missing HD locals without a CableCard?

That can't be right, can it?

Do you mean that the recording is "protected" for two days, after which time it can be deleted if space is needed for a new recording? I can't imagine that the default would be to delete a recording after two days.

1. The HD locals (like 2.1 or 5.1) seem to all be there. I made a list of all clear QAM channels on my HDTV tuner. A number of them are missing, when MOXI does a clear QAM scan. To be specific, CNBC is available on my TV on 122.12. On the MOXI without cablecard 122.12 does not exist.

2. mktgMaven has provided new info for me. The recording options menu for "Keep:" defaults to 2 days, and there is an alternatate option of 'until space needed' Thus, I assumed that after 2 days the MOXI would delete the program. I had written to MOXI support about this, and the person just replied that there is no way to set defaults for recording options. She did not explain that after the 2 days the program would revert to 'until space is needed.'

There is also a recording default limiting the number of programs in a series, which I have been changing to "unlimited." This might be a similar situation. I had assumed that after 5 episodes are recorded that either the DVR purges the last one or the DVR stops recording new shows. Otherwise, why offer the option at all?

I have had one crash of my MOXI. It was recording two HD programs. I was on my computer trying out the ability to schedule programs over the internet. After about the 5th program I scheduled the website said it had lost contact with the MOXI. I found that both recordings had stopped and the HDMI port on my TV had no signal from the MOXI. Power cycling restored operation. I have done many option actions with the handheld remote, and frequently played recordings during double recording sesssions with no glitches. I plan to just not use the website for scheduling.

I cannot seem to find an option for an old fashioned manual VCR-like recording. For example, CNBC's schedule does not reflect the segment called "Stop Trading" that is run from 11:45AM to 12 Noon Pacific. To record this, I seem to have to record the entire one hour show that the segment appears in. The options allow me to start the recording 5 minutes late. Fast forwarding through the program to the 45 minute mark is easy. So, no big deal. However, if a program is not in the program guide, it appears one is out of luck.

I have an external hard drive on backorder order from Amazon. These are special drives. I had to get a list of two known to work from MOXI support. MOXI support is prompt.

Comcast needed 4 days of repair calls to get the cablecard working right. They said it was a Comcast "coding" issue.

There is an option for dimming or turning off the MOXI logo on the front of the DVR. The sheer black box looked cool. However, the function also dimms or turns off the recording lights at the same time. Thus, I had to turn the MOXI logo back on in order to see the record lights.

When programming a series, the MOXI may pop up a choice to record existing scheduled shows or the new conflicting show. The problem is, that the time slot I want does not conflict with the other shows, but I cannot access the timeslot options before the MOXI gives me the conflict menu.

I have had many DVRs over the last 10 years. Several from Dish Network, and a Sony DHG-HDD500. I have never owned a Tivo. So far, the MOXI is the best I have used. Any gripes I might have may well be corrected given the ethernet access Digeo has to the DVR. In reading about Digeo, it sounds like they have scaled back their new developments due to the economy. In time this may change.
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post #21 of 39 Old 04-17-2009, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubit100 View Post

There is also a recording default limiting the number of programs in a series, which I have been changing to "unlimited." This might be a similar situation. I had assumed that after 5 episodes are recorded that either the DVR purges the last one or the DVR stops recording new shows. Otherwise, why offer the option at all?

The TiVo has a similar option. The oldest episode is purged when you set to "save last 5" with "keep until space is needed." If you choose "save last 5" with "keep until I delete" than the DVR stops recording new episodes after the first five.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubit100 View Post

I cannot seem to find an option for an old fashioned manual VCR-like recording. For example, CNBC's schedule does not reflect the segment called "Stop Trading" that is run from 11:45AM to 12 Noon Pacific. To record this, I seem to have to record the entire one hour show that the segment appears in. The options allow me to start the recording 5 minutes late. Fast forwarding through the program to the 45 minute mark is easy. So, no big deal. However, if a program is not in the program guide, it appears one is out of luck.

That's odd. I did not see a reference to manual recording in the user's guide? TiVo does provide that option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubit100 View Post

When programming a series, the MOXI may pop up a choice to record existing scheduled shows or the new conflicting show. The problem is, that the time slot I want does not conflict with the other shows, but I cannot access the timeslot options before the MOXI gives me the conflict menu.

Does the conflict screen not allow you to ignore the warning and schedule the new program?

On the TiVo, the box notifies you about the series conflict and displays what showings in other timeslots will be recorded.

Once a series recording is scheduled, I know that Moxi is similar to TiVo in that it uses the priority list to determine what two series record in the event of a three-way or four-way conflict. If three or four programs conflict, the TiVo will record the first two and look for a repeat showing of the third and fourth programs. The TiVo will look for repeat showings of the third and fourth programs for 28 days. It is my understanding that Moxi does the same thing, except it looks for 14 days.
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post #22 of 39 Old 04-17-2009, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post


Does the conflict screen not allow you to ignore the warning and schedule the new program?

From memory, I believe I have seen both situations. That is, one time I was allowed to schedule anyway, and then later change the timeslot option. More recently, I was presented with a choice to delete one of the two existing timers, OR cancel my new timer. I was very frustrated, because I wanted the new program to be scheduled, but with a lower priority. This was in a situation where one of the two existing timers was American Idol. American Idol often changes around its day and time. Thus, a third program choice makes sense.
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post #23 of 39 Old 04-17-2009, 05:11 PM
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Upon review, I think the situation that did not allow triple scheduling was one where I was scheduling a one-time recording. Thus, the third timer would not have made sense.

I read the online User's Guide up to page 24. I should really finish it.

Moxi support, on a phone call, gave me some tips on navigation through the schedule looking for programs. The info may be in the User's Guide.

The MOXI did not come with a printed manual, just a quick start guide. They assume one is computer literate.
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post #24 of 39 Old 04-20-2009, 01:23 PM
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Does anyone know which video processor this device uses or is it some no name pile that just bobs interlaced content?

I notice that every time a new HD product comes out everyone seems to forget that 1080i needs to be properly processed, and with the wacky shenanigans cable operators are pulling the processor has to be good. Lowest bidder won't cut it.
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post #25 of 39 Old 04-20-2009, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ianken View Post

Does anyone know which video processor this device uses or is it some no name pile that just bobs interlaced content?

Based on known information, the Moxi is designed around a Broadcom BCM7400 DVR SoC.

This product doesn't offer 1080p60 output, so deinterlace of 1080i is a non-issue. No DVR SoCs are available yet with 1080p deinterlace.

Someone would have to stream SD test patterns from a DLNA server to see how well it does with 480i -> 720p deinterlace and scaling.
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post #26 of 39 Old 04-21-2009, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Based on known information, the Moxi is designed around a Broadcom BCM7400 DVR SoC.

This product doesn't offer 1080p60 output, so deinterlace of 1080i is a non-issue. No DVR SoCs are available yet with 1080p deinterlace.

Someone would have to stream SD test patterns from a DLNA server to see how well it does with 480i -> 720p deinterlace and scaling.

FWIW, local stations OTA in in 720P look good through cable and the MOXI at 1080i on the HDTV. The MOXI allows one to choose other options, like 1080P24, but I have not experimented with that.

SD (480i) channels vary. Some look very good, some others look like the shapness has been reduced. I think this is a cable issue.
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post #27 of 39 Old 04-21-2009, 04:32 PM
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Cubit,

What external hard drive did you order? Have you received it yet?
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post #28 of 39 Old 04-22-2009, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Cubit,

What external hard drive did you order? Have you received it yet?

Western Digital 1TB "My DVR Expander" eSATA

I had been waiting for Amazon to get stock, but yesterday I was at 80% on my hard drive, so I went ahead and ordered from a New York supplier on Google shopping called B&H. $159.95 + shipping. They estimated 4/28 for delivery, but I do not have a tracking number yet.

Yesterday, I had Comcast out again. I had orderred Showtime and the DVR continued to report that I was not subscribed. Comcast changed the cablecard and Showtime came on. Last week I had a similar issue, but when the repairman came out he knew who to call at Comcast to resolve a "coding issue."

I like the MOXI, but since I'm still in my first 30 days, I dug deeper into Comcast's DVR. In my area there is only one model available. It is a Motorola with a 15 hour HD capacity. The box has a *disabled* eSATA port. I feel better about my choice.

My friends have Tivos. However, I have had a long distaste for Tivo due to their lawsuits against other DVR manufacturers. The courts ruled in their favor, but in my opinion Tivo is just doing what was already being done with VCRs. They shouldn't be able to patent that. My wild guess is that the use of a hard disk for recording instead of tape just confused the court.
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post #29 of 39 Old 04-22-2009, 05:28 PM
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The courts ruled in their favor, but in my opinion Tivo is just doing what was already being done with VCRs. They shouldn't be able to patent that. My wild guess is that the use of a hard disk for recording instead of tape just confused the court.

I think this is a bit unfair. VCRs didn't have program guides, season passes, chase play, and non-linear seeking capabilities. That's kind of like comparing an audio tape recorder to a computer; sure you can do a few of the same things with a tape recorder that can be done with a computer, but that doesn't make the two anywhere near the same thing. The computer clearly has far more features, and the two function in very different ways.
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post #30 of 39 Old 04-22-2009, 11:26 PM
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VCRs didn't have program guides...

Some did - they had Guide+.
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