Watch and Record cable in tunerless theater - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 11-28-2009, 08:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I've had a nice home theater setup for about a year now, JVC RS1, paradigm studio speakers, etc etc.

Problem is I haven't gotten a cable box for the theater. We have standard cable 1-100, plus 50 or so digital channels 15-20 being in HD (720p or 1080i).

I have sony tv's in the rest of my home, with QAM digital and analog tuners and they pick up the channels fine. I want to watch tv in my theater, which is the main priority. Recording is a bonus, maybe record to network or something, as I would not be watching recorded shows in my theater a lot.

What kind of box would need to be purchased to allow me to watch analog and digital HD channels in my theater?

and record?

I have tried the Samsung DTBH260F but that only picked up the digital HD channels, none of the analog.
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post #2 of 12 Old 11-28-2009, 09:44 PM
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Check out the triple-tuner Moxi w/ two bundled extenders and the HDTV Recorder Feature Comparison table.

TiVo includes analog tuners and they are an extra cost on the Moxi, but the Moxi has a superior multi-room implementation with extenders. You could have the Moxi in one room and extenders in two other rooms; all three rooms can access and play recordings. Soon, extenders will support the EPG and liveTV using the tuners in the DVR.
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post #3 of 12 Old 11-28-2009, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmm, I was thinking something along the lines of 200-300 instead of 799.
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post #4 of 12 Old 11-28-2009, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antivirus6613 View Post

Hmm, I was thinking something along the lines of 200-300 instead of 799.

You are not going to get a usable HDTV-capable QAM recorder for $200-$300. A HD-capable QAM tuner without the ability to record runs about $140. A SD-only recorder with a single QAM tuner costs $230.

If you only want a HDTV DVR for one TV, Moxi is $499 (subscription included). TiVo is $210, but the subscription is sold separately.

The only way to get HD QAM recording for $200 would be a QAM tuner card for an existing Windows Vista / Windows 7 PC. You can get a dual-tuner QAM card for under $100.
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post #5 of 12 Old 11-28-2009, 11:10 PM - Thread Starter
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The HD-Capable QAM tuner for $140 would allow me to view analog and digital channels, up to 1080i?

and then for recording functionality Moxi sounds like the cheaper box in the long run, and that will do digital and analog as well, correct?

The main concern I have is that I won't be getting the 100 analog channels, the samsung box I purchased before only tuned the digitals....
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post #6 of 12 Old 11-28-2009, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antivirus6613 View Post

The HD-Capable QAM tuner for $140 would allow me to view analog and digital channels, up to 1080i?

No, it won't. It's like your Samsung. I should've clarified that.

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Originally Posted by antivirus6613 View Post

and then for recording functionality Moxi sounds like the cheaper box in the long run, and that will do digital and analog as well, correct?

The main concern I have is that I won't be getting the 100 analog channels, the samsung box I purchased before only tuned the digitals....

Moxi charges $129 extra for analog support. They give you one of these that connects to the Moxi's rear USB port.

Analog support adds significant cost to a HD recorder, because that entails a separate NTSC decoder, analog/digital converter, and MP@ML encoder for each tuner, as necessary to convert the analog signal into a form that can be manipulated (pause, instant replay, etc) and written to the hard disk. Everything else in Moxi is geared toward saving the original digital signal to disk, as is.

Note most cable operators plan to eliminate their analog cable channels and move them to digital over the next few years. Each analog channel consumes the same capacity as 2-3 HD channels and 9-16 digital SD channels, so for competitive reasons, they want to eliminate them as soon as possible. As an example, Comcast plans to keep analog versions of its locals and move everything else to digital; a number of Comcast service areas made this transition over the past six months, and many more will do it in 1H 2010.
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post #7 of 12 Old 11-28-2009, 11:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm a little confused now, I have wide open west (WOW) and when I plug that into my TV it shows around 100 analog channels and 50 digital during scan.

The only way to access analog is through a seperate tuner or addon?

I'm confused because the pdf below compares the PHD-205LE to the samsung and it shows NTSC analog support?
http://www.epvision.com/Documents/HD...ct_compare.pdf
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post #8 of 12 Old 11-29-2009, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antivirus6613 View Post

I'm a little confused now, I have wide open west (WOW) and when I plug that into my TV it shows around 100 analog channels and 50 digital during scan.

The only way to access analog is through a seperate tuner or addon?

Moxi separated analog support from their design to keep costs down, since most people with that DVR use a CableCard. When a CableCard (an access card) from the cable company is installed, digital versions of channels 1-100 replace the analog versions on most cable systems.

For those that need analog support, the $129 "dongle" plugs into the back of the Moxi and adds one analog tuner. From the Moxi interface, everything is seamlessly integrated; you see both analog and digital channels in the same program guide and you can tune/record from both. You just have another box hanging off the Moxi.

You can see a video demo of Moxi here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antivirus6613 View Post

I'm confused because the pdf below compares the PHD-205LE to the samsung and it shows NTSC analog support?
http://www.epvision.com/Documents/HD...ct_compare.pdf

I haven't used the PHD-205LE, but my understanding is that it has RF passthrough. In other words, it won't decode and display analog channels itself, but it will pass the analog signal through the RF coax for your TV's NTSC tuner. That doesn't help you, because your projector lacks a NTSC tuner.
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post #9 of 12 Old 11-29-2009, 12:43 AM
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If there was a way to daisy-chain an old VCR in there, he could use that for the tuner. Don't know if that'd be possible with his projector, though.

Actually, the Samsung has RF pass-through, too, so he wouldn't even need the Prime DTV.

The pdf he has must be for the old non-LE version, which had analog capability - the newer, LE model definitely doesn't.
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post #10 of 12 Old 11-29-2009, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Isn't there some ultimate tuner coming out? I was reading the PHD-205LE thread here on AVS and supposedly it is going to have 1080p upconversion in all.

I wanted one box to simplify everything but I guess VCR, and 205LE is the only option, unless someone is selling an older version of this box? or I'll just wait for the "ultimate tuner".
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post #11 of 12 Old 11-29-2009, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antivirus6613 View Post

Isn't there some ultimate tuner coming out? I was reading the PHD-205LE thread here on AVS and supposedly it is going to have 1080p upconversion in all.

I wanted one box to simplify everything but I guess VCR, and 205LE is the only option, unless someone is selling an older version of this box? or I'll just wait for the "ultimate tuner".

There is someone selling a brand new, unopened non-LE model that just posted in the Prime DTV thread, early AM yesterday. If he doesn't get any responses, he's going to ebay it. I considered buying it myself, but they're cutting off the extended analog cable channels here in February anyway. Better respond quick, as that's the last you're going to see of a standalone HD tuner model with NTSC built-in being released - I can pretty much guarantee you of that.

As far as that "ultimate" model, don't hold your breath. They are not going to "move backwards" and place an analog tuner back in it. That was told to just one person (I believe), and I think it was by a CSR that was just tired of listening to the person and told them what they wanted to hear (or maybe so they would not lose the person's interest in their products altogether). Either that or they just "heard what they wanted to hear" and misunderstood. Either way, wishful thinking.

(edit: the poster that's selling it is named "ShokwaveRider".)
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post #12 of 12 Old 11-29-2009, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antivirus6613 View Post

I wanted one box to simplify everything but I guess VCR, and 205LE is the only option...

Like I said, if that were the route you were going to take, you wouldn't even need the Prime DTV - if you still have the Samsung, you will be able to accomplish the same thing the same way.

They both have the required RF pass-through feature. Your projector would have to have both HD inputs (HDMI or component) for the Samsung, and composite (or s-video, if the VCR has those outputs - the majority don't, though) for the VCR. Then you'd have to change inputs on it to watch either digital (the Samsung) or analog (the VCR).

Just be sure to leave the Samsung "on", as it attenuates (weakens, which you definitely don't want with analog) the signal some when using the pass-through with it turned off. The Samsung manual tells you how to set up and use the pass-through feature.
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